M50 - apalling gridlock

Mike3549 · 29-11-2018 10:12pm

jamesbondings wrote: »

Arctics and all "work" vehicles to be banned from roads between 7 and 9. Port tunnel price to be reduced to 2 quid for all traffic between this time.

What do you mean "all traffic" when you ban all "work" vehicles?
Does bus also count as "work" vehicle?
Should postmen also be banned during this hour?

LeinsterDub · 29-11-2018 10:43pm

Effects wrote: »

There's no rain in either of those videos. That's what puts me off cycling in bad weather. But then I'd rather take the bus than drive in rush hour.

But wasn't there a report a few years ago that Copenhagen gets more rain each year than Dublin?

You may get wet 1 in 20 trips in Dublin. And if you have gear you'll be fine. More chance being soaked walking to the bus

metricspaces · 29-11-2018 10:45pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

My statement (bold as it was)

It wasn't bold. It was just wrong.

jamesbondings · 30-11-2018 12:22am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

1. All roads?
2. What if they've no driver's licence?
3. Why should sustainable transport be punished for using a public road when unsustainable transport is not?

Should have been clearer.
If there is space for a cycle path, then pave it. I meant anyone cycling on a road instead of a cycle path (typically located a half a meter away) obviously if there is no cycle path then no worries. Cycle patches to be cordoned off from footpaths and road.
If no drivers licence points can be pre loaded or a bigger fine issued.

jamesbondings · 30-11-2018 12:26am

AdrianII wrote: »

Then the port tunnel will be full and the traffic is just passed to another location. The tunnel is 10 at that time for a reason. That is not a solution.

Hardly.... Traffic going to the southside from M1 may use it, but removes traffic from Collins Ave junction. But for arguements sake let's say a 5er.
They would need to widen the southbound exit to allow better flow of traffic

robindch · 30-11-2018 2:02am

gflood wrote: »

I wonder how much wasted fuel happens every morning with the Dublin commute due to crap infrastructure. Not to mention peoples time. Until we improve situations like this carbon taxes should be postponed.

The point of carbon taxes is to incentivize carbon-light transport schemes - that means that people might try to get out of their single-person cars, use public transport, ride-share, work closer to home, use a bike and so on.

A lot of the infrastructure is fine. What's wrong is that everybody thinks it's fine to buy a car and contribute to blocking the road on a regular basis.

con___manx1 · 30-11-2018 7:38am

ED E wrote: »

Why? Dublin doesn't have much more jobs than other cities, say Copenhagen.

Having a central business district is normal. Just not everyone can drive to it.

Iv never been to copenhahen so cant say much about it. Im sure the traffic cant be half as bad as dublin. Iv lived in 3 citys much bigger than dublin. All of them have much better public transport and roads. Iv been to amsterdam twice. Its not built for cars. Bikes are the only option really.

RayCun · 30-11-2018 7:54am

Bikes and public transport are the only options because the Dutch people made that decision. It wasn't an accident

Victor · 30-11-2018 8:22am

....... wrote: »

Why not build another M50 on top of the M50? Remove the meridian and allow all lower deck traffic to travel South and all upper deck to travel North. In a stroke you would more than double the capacity of the road without having to use up more land for it. Elevated highways work fine in other countries.

Existing M50 has cost more than €3.5 billion to build, not including the roads feeding it. Add inflation, the cost of working around existing traffic and building it a height and your elevated highway would cost in the order of €10 billion to build.

greenwaving · 30-11-2018 8:59am

jamesbondings wrote: »

Should have been clearer.
If there is space for a cycle path, then pave it. I meant anyone cycling on a road instead of a cycle path (typically located a half a meter away) obviously if there is no cycle path then no worries. Cycle patches to be cordoned off from footpaths and road.
If no drivers licence points can be pre loaded or a bigger fine issued.

Apart from the logistical and ethical nightmare of preloading points or issuing massive fines to road users who are using sustainable methods of transport and actually reducing the gridlock it is completely unworkable. On several sections of my journey using the cycle path is either impossible (due to parked car/vans) or too dangerous (due to debris, poor paving etc) to use. There are also several instances where using the cycle lane located on the left would then require me to cross two/three lanes of traffic for a right turn so again using it is actually dangerous. The cycle paths definitely require an upgrade but even then enforcing their use is never going to be workable and will do frig all to help reduce gridlock - might even increase it by discouraging cycling.

wench · 30-11-2018 9:16am

con___manx1 wrote: »

Iv been to amsterdam twice. Its not built for cars. Bikes are the only option really.

Bikes are the only option now, after many years of activism reversed the 1960s era move towards the car.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/may/05/amsterdam-bicycle-capital-world-transport-cycling-kindermoord

Macy0161 · 30-11-2018 9:16am

If the cycle paths are so good, does no motorist that complains ever wonder why they're not being used? If there were good, there'd be no need to force people to use them.

They may be poor for any number of reasons not obvious from a vehicle - poor surface, debris (particularly this time of year), parked vehicles, where the cycle lane dumps you back on the road, ceding priority at every side road, interaction with bus stops, not actual cycle lanes but actually shared with pedestrians.

All of which I experience on the 9km of my commute that has "perfectly good" cycle lanes, so yes, there are sections I take the road instead. Well bus lane - vehicles legally in there are generally fine, it's the cars and vans in the bus lanes illegally that seem to have the bigger issue of me being in their way.

con___manx1 · 30-11-2018 9:54am

RayCun wrote: »

Bikes and public transport are the only options because the Dutch people made that decision. It wasn't an accident

Amsterdam only has a population of around 800000. Dublin is bigger. The roads arnt great for traffic in amsterdan thats all im trying to say. There are alot of narrow streets.Also there is hardly a hill in the whole of holland never mind amsterdam : ) its a flat country it suits bikes down to the ground. I actually love that. im not anti bike.
I seen a black and white picture of o Connell street before in a pub. There were hundreds of people on bikes im guessing it was taken in the 40ths or 50ths. Id love to see a return to that but i cant see it happening.

RayCun · 30-11-2018 10:11am

con___manx1 wrote: »

Amsterdam only has a population of around 800000. Dublin is bigger. The roads arnt great for traffic in amsterdan thats all im trying to say. There are alot of narrow streets.Also there is hardly a hill in the whole of holland never mind amsterdam : ) its a flat country it suits bikes down to the ground. I actually love that. im not anti bike.
I seen a black and white picture of o Connell street before in a pub. There were hundreds of people on bikes im guessing it was taken in the 40ths or 50ths. Id love to see a return to that but i cant see it happening.

There are lots of narrow streets in Dublin, yet we persist in trying to accommodate cars :rolleyes:

And there are feck all hills in Dublin. It's not San Francisco. We could have hundreds of people on bikes on O'Connell Street again, if we didn't give cars such priority.

magicbastarder · 30-11-2018 10:17am

anyway, if you do live in a hilly place, electric bikes are making headway in terms of range and price.

wench · 30-11-2018 10:34am

con___manx1 wrote: »

Amsterdam only has a population of around 800000. Dublin is bigger.

No, Dublin isn't bigger.

The comparable figure for Dublin is about 550,000.
Including the metropolitan area, for Amsterdam it is 2.4million, for Dublin 1.3million

Population densities are similar, with Amsterdam at 5000/km sq and Dublin at 4800.

The lack of cycling provision here isn't down to population, geography or rainfall, it is lack of will, and constant pandering to a car-centric vision.

magicbastarder · 30-11-2018 10:53am

anyway, talking about the capacity of the M50, it's really not all that much. it's 31km from the junction with the M1 to the junction at sandyford. allowing for 3 usable lanes in *each* direction, that's 186,000m of available road, and at full capacity - all lanes pretty much full, that allows about 20,000 vehicles (allowing just less than 10m per vehicle). given that the considerable majority will be single occupancy - and that's both directions, remember - it shows how inefficient motorways are that if you 'fill' the M50, it has a 'capacity' maybe one quarter or one third of what croke park can hold.

another way to look at motorway capacity is using the three second rule (assuming drivers adhere to it). a three lane motorway should have a car passing a fixed point once per second, at full capacity. or 3,600 vehicles per hour. of course, it's far from the case that everyone who uses the M50 will be passing a particular spot, but given that the luas green line has a theoretical maximum of 8,160 passengers in each direction per hour, that kinda puts it in a little perspective.

Effects · 30-11-2018 10:54am

....... wrote: »

Morning rush hour seems to go from 6am til 10am and evening from 3pm til 7pm. Ive even been caught gridlocked on it at 8pm on a Sunday evening

Is it really that bad at those times?
I'm lucky enough that when I have to use the M50 I can generally choose the time, so I avoid the worst of it.
I left Ballymount at 4.08 yesterday and made it on to the M50 northbound, to the M1, and back to Clontarf in 40 minutes. I didn't think that was too bad at all.
Traffic was heavy, but moving the whole time.
These days I break out in a sweat when thinking about bad traffic.

But then I'm also thinking about getting a cargo bike to reduce my dependance on the car even more.

adocholiday · 30-11-2018 11:05am

I moved to rural Wicklow recently and I have no choice but to use my car for commuting, but I knew what I was signing up for so I'm not going to start bemoaning being impacted by the traffic. I do find myself taking back roads to work though rather than the N11 unless Google Maps tells me the N11 is relatively clear before I set out (never mind the M50!). The N11 is chaos most days, but particularly when the weather is bad. The past 2 weeks have been a nightmare and generally it's down to pure volume of cars.

Funny thing is that I actually have a public transport option with a direct train service only 5 minutes from my house. The reasons I don't use it are it's too slow and too infrequent. There are 3 services in the morning but only 1 of them would be useful for me. It takes about 20 minutes longer each way than it takes me in the car, and the only useful service in the evening leaves Connolly at 6.30pm which is completely useless. Then if I missed that service I would have no way home, the only potential option I'd have is a bus that would still leave me 25km from home. The new BusConnect proposals don't even consider that one bus so there's going to be no improvements there in the short-medium term.

I'm sure that there are thousands of people like me within an hour of Dublin that would be happy to use public transport if it were viable but the reality is that until we adopt a properly interconnected rail & bus network then you can forget about it. If public transport isn't viable, and obviously I'm not going to cycle 70km each way to work every day, then the only option I have is my car.

magicbastarder · 30-11-2018 11:11am

adocholiday wrote: »

I'm sure that there are thousands of people like me within an hour of Dublin that would be happy to use public transport if it were viable but the reality is that until we adopt a properly interconnected rail & bus network then you can forget about it.

fair play that you acknowledge you can't really complain about traffic because you moved to rural wicklow, but should we be trying to make public transport viable for people who moved to the countryside? it'd have to be massively subsidised to make it work.

adocholiday · 30-11-2018 11:26am

magicbastarder wrote: »

fair play that you acknowledge you can't really complain about traffic because you moved to rural wicklow, but should we be trying to make public transport viable for people who moved to the countryside? it'd have to be massively subsidised to make it work.

No I'm not saying that we should subsidise it, but if you want to start breaking down the complete gridlock on the national roads and motorways going into Dublin then that's what's needed. Cycling isn't an option for the vast majority living more than 20k from work so 1 of 2 things has to be done. Massive investment in the road network to increase lanes etc. (look how well that's worked out in the US), or else massive investment in a decent public transport network.

The problem isn't going to fix itself and it's definitely going to get worse if nothing is done so money is going to be spent either way. The reality is that people are being priced out of Dublin, and others (like myself) are completely sick and tired of living in it so choose to move outside of it. Even if we build upwards in the city, which I completely agree with, it's not really going to do much for the commuting situation from outside Dublin. I can't imagine too many families wanting to live in apartments so you're always going to have a substantial number of people commuting from outside the city. People will say if you choose to live outside Dublin then face the consequences and that's fine, but those consequences involve having to get into the car every day and block up the same roads that the people living in Dublin also use. It negatively impacts everyone.

magicbastarder · 30-11-2018 11:32am

adocholiday wrote: »

No I'm not saying that we should subsidise it

public transport *is* subsidised. providing it out to rural areas vastly increases the subsidy per passenger.

https://www.thejournal.ie/public-transport-state-funding-ireland-facts-3206997-Feb2017/

adocholiday · 30-11-2018 11:48am

magicbastarder wrote: »

public transport *is* subsidised. providing it out to rural areas vastly increases the subsidy per passenger.

https://www.thejournal.ie/public-transport-state-funding-ireland-facts-3206997-Feb2017/

Fair enough but then what do you propose as an alternative to what I've said? We can further improve the road network with more public money which I think has been agreed at this point wouldn't be the best use of funds; or we can use the same money to try to improve existing public transport. I'm not just talking about rural transport services here either by the way, I mean all public transport. I'm not advocating that every village in Ireland should have a direct bus to wherever people want it to go.

If you look at the train services to/from Dublin from places outside the Irish Rail definition of the commuter belt, the frequency and quality of service drastically decreases. Would it really be that expensive in relative terms to improve the frequency of services outside that belt? Irish Rail would argue that nobody uses the service so they can't afford to run it. Then they degrade the service and even less people use it. The old saying "you have to spend money to make money" really rings true for me with this.

RayCun · 30-11-2018 11:48am

adocholiday wrote: »

The reality is that people are being priced out of Dublin, and others (like myself) are completely sick and tired of living in it so choose to move outside of it.

Living outside Dublin is one thing, living away from public transport options is another.

I don't think you can approach the problem from the point of view that the road network has to be sufficient for the people who commute by car, because that's a pit that can't be filled. The road network for private cars should be whatever is left after higher-capacity modes of transport are serviced. And then people can decide for themselves how they want to commute (or where they are going to live).

adocholiday · 30-11-2018 11:54am

RayCun wrote: »

Living outside Dublin is one thing, living away from public transport options is another.

I don't think you can approach the problem from the point of view that the road network has to be sufficient for the people who commute by car, because that's a pit that can't be filled. The road network for private cars should be whatever is left after higher-capacity modes of transport are serviced. And then people can decide for themselves how they want to commute (or where they are going to live).

I completely agree. My point is that the higher-capacity modes of transport are woefully inadequate for the people that are primarily using the M50 and outer feeder routers - commuters. It's all well and good having a bus/luas/dart network all within the M50 but people from outside can't really use it because the services available to them are not connected. If I lived 15 minutes outside Maynooth I'd drive to the train station and take the train in to the city. I live 5 minutes from my nearest train station and don't use it because it's not an adequate service.

Lord Glentoran · 30-11-2018 11:55am

RayCun wrote: »

Living outside Dublin is one thing, living away from public transport options is another.

I don't think you can approach the problem from the point of view that the road network has to be sufficient for the people who commute by car, because that's a pit that can't be filled. The road network for private cars should be whatever is left after higher-capacity modes of transport are serviced. And then people can decide for themselves how they want to commute (or where they are going to live).

The problem here is that the bottomless pit of ‘predict and provide roads’ is the default position of most civil service planners, while effective rail is seen as a fancy add-on that can be delayed infinitely - or as a legacy service that should be removed or downgraded to non usefulness.

Until that cycle is broken effective planning and infrastructure will always be a struggle

magicbastarder · 30-11-2018 11:58am

adocholiday wrote: »

If you look at the train services to/from Dublin from places outside the Irish Rail definition of the commuter belt, the frequency and quality of service drastically decreases. Would it really be that expensive in relative terms to improve the frequency of services outside that belt?

yes; heavy rail is massively expensive to provide in areas of poor uptake.
the poster boy for this in ireland:

The document also reveals that the subsidy for the Limerick to Ballybrophy route is a massive €761.60 per passenger journey

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irish-rail-earmarks-four-routes-for-axe-as-it-warns-pay-rise-will-push-it-towards-insolvency-36079194.html

lest the distinction be lost - that's not per passenger per year, that's per passenger *per journey*.

tomplate · 30-11-2018 12:04pm

I seem to remember about 30-40 years ago

It was already well established fact that if you build roads to solve traffic problems they just fill up again

It's like something akin to the 'war on drugs' in the scale of its folly

adocholiday · 30-11-2018 12:08pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

yes; heavy rail is massively expensive to provide in areas of poor uptake.
the poster boy for this in ireland:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irish-rail-earmarks-four-routes-for-axe-as-it-warns-pay-rise-will-push-it-towards-insolvency-36079194.html

lest the distinction be lost - that's not per passenger per year, that's per passenger *per journey*.

Yes it's €761.60 per journey on 1 particular route. It's 70c per journey on the DART. So what might it be on a decently used commuter route such as the Maynooth to Dublin line for example? Realistically how expensive would it be to extend that particular service to Mullingar for example? Or how expensive would it be to extend the Greystones service to Arklow a couple of times at rush hour (only 3 additional stops, an additional 40 minutes)? It wouldn't be anywhere near €761 per journey and there would be demand no doubt about it.

magicbastarder · 30-11-2018 12:11pm

i suspect - and others would probably know better than me - one of the main issues with improving services to arklow would be the fact that it's a single track south of greystones. providing a second track is probably a huge cost.

Seth Brundle · 30-11-2018 12:12pm

adocholiday wrote: »

No I'm not saying that we should subsidise it, but if you want to start breaking down the complete gridlock on the national roads and motorways going into Dublin then that's what's needed. Cycling isn't an option for the vast majority living more than 20k from work so 1 of 2 things has to be done. Massive investment in the road network to increase lanes etc. (look how well that's worked out in the US), or else massive investment in a decent public transport network.

Nobody is really suggesting that cycling should replace car journeys but that the option for a safe cycle should be there (it currently is not).

As for widening roads - why? Traffic will reach the bottlenecks quicker and then what do we do?
The problem is the car. We need to get away from the mindset that the car is the best way to travel.

For people who commute long distances, we need to provide more options to park and ride. We need more efficient train and bus systems. The potential is there. The political will is not!

Macy0161 · 30-11-2018 12:15pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

fair play that you acknowledge you can't really complain about traffic because you moved to rural wicklow, but should we be trying to make public transport viable for people who moved to the countryside? it'd have to be massively subsidised to make it work.

Isn't this why we need park and rides? Car may be part of the solution for some people, but the entire journey by car, into the city (or around the M50) needn't be. It doesn't have to be door to door.

You can't get into the park and ride in greystones after 8.30am, villages such as Ashford have parking restrictions to try and stop people parking and riding for the existing BE Service.

There's massive scope for park and rides and increased public transport. Maybe theres some capital (or rental) costs in land and new buses, but there's enough demand on the N11 that the private Wexford Bus is a success, and now has a "Wicklow" Bus service too. I wouldn't see it needing massive subsidy - lack of capacity on bus and rail is driving the car use at the moment.

adocholiday · 30-11-2018 12:19pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Nobody is really suggesting that cycling should replace car journeys but that the option for a safe cycle should be there (it currently is not).

As for widening roads - why? Traffic will reach the bottlenecks quicker and then what do we do?
The problem is the car. We need to get away from the mindset that the car is the best way to travel.

For people who commute long distances, we need to provide more options to park and ride. We need more efficient train and bus systems. The potential is there. The political will is not!

I agree with all of what you said, and I wasn't advocating for widening roads. When I said look how well that's worked in the US I was being sarcastic because their roads are absolute gridlock!

Seth Brundle · 30-11-2018 12:21pm

adocholiday wrote: »

I completely agree. My point is that the higher-capacity modes of transport are woefully inadequate for the people that are primarily using the M50 and outer feeder routers - commuters. It's all well and good having a bus/luas/dart network all within the M50 but people from outside can't really use it because the services available to them are not connected. If I lived 15 minutes outside Maynooth I'd drive to the train station and take the train in to the city.

The plan is to electrify the Maynooth line (starting currently set for 2021) but there will be an increase in the number of scheduled trains...

Dublin/Maynooth/M3 Parkway/Longford

New earlier 05.58hrs Maynooth to Connolly service.
Six additional off-peak services each way daily between Connolly and Maynooth between Monday and Friday, with a service every half-hour at off-peak times up to 9pm.
13 additional off-peak services each way on Saturday between Connolly and Maynooth, with services every half hour between 8am and 7pm.
11 additional off-peak services each way on Sunday between Connolly and Maynooth, with a service from Maynooth at 8am, trains every half hour between 11am and 7pm and services operating until 11pm on Sundays.
M3 Parkway hourly service extended on Sunday evenings to provide connections at Clonsilla to and from later Maynooth services

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/irish-rail-to-operate-70-additional-dublin-commuter-services-a-day-37507223.html

adocholiday wrote: »

I live 5 minutes from my nearest train station and don't use it because it's not an adequate service.

Not sure where you live but the service is adequate given the levels of funding it receives. If we wanted a viable train service, we would have one.
Successive governments have allowed the unions to dictate the workings within our PT system. Money has been tight and the public have chosen the easier option of using car (as roads is where successive governments have heavily invested). We vote for people who will give us what we think we want, not what's best for us!

magicbastarder · 30-11-2018 12:28pm

i assume census figures exist for say, the number of people living in mullingar and commuting to dublin?
the problem is for many, that providing a decent rail service from mullingar to dublin may not be useful or appealing to them, if they then have to take a second (or third, if they've driven to the station in mullingar) leg of their journey getting from connolly to santry, say, and the public transport on that leg is unreliable.

steamsey · 30-11-2018 2:06pm

con___manx1 wrote: »

Iv never been to copenhahen so cant say much about it. Im sure the traffic cant be half as bad as dublin. Iv lived in 3 citys much bigger than dublin. All of them have much better public transport and roads. Iv been to amsterdam twice. Its not built for cars. Bikes are the only option really.

Spent a bit of time working there. In the city at least, there is no rush hour traffic to speak of. 41% of journeys into the city for work are on a bike. Their winter weather is at best comparable to ours, and probably worse so weather is not an issue for them and shouldn't be for us. Their cycle lanes are great. Tram system works very well if you don't want to cycle and was reasonably priced as far as I remember.

I remain optimistic that more and more people will cycle to work despite the negative press / abuse from taxis etc etc etc. The main obstacle is convincing people that the weather is not as big an issue as they think - I get the same response from every non cyclist - do you not get soaked? Yes, I do. About 10 times a year (in Dublin).

LuckyLloyd · 30-11-2018 2:13pm

There's no reason why we can't:

Build Metro
Complete Bus Connects as planned
Introduce significant congestion charges for Dublin City Centre
Make the very core part of the city centre inaccessible to private motorists
Introduce a carbon tax
Complete relevant light rail projects in Cork / Galway / Other
Rexamine and invest to maximise existing heavy rail infrastructure

If you're in rural Ireland you need a car for your daily commute. I accept that. But there is no reason why the vast majority of non commercial vehicle commutes cannot be made via Public Transport in Dublin. We just need to believe in it, invest in it and prioritize it.

There are of course those that just don't like public transport, because they got a car / license at a young age and view leaving their house via the prism of their car. The person posting earlier in this thread about going to the gym or the shops is the type of example. You might as well be talking to an alien as talking to them about buying a better carry all.

And these types will reject good public transport options, even if they're quicker. I know of a couple of people who travel to a rural town a couple of times a year that is on an intercity train line.

- They have a connection to the Dublin train station via the high frequency / high reliability N11 bus corridor
- The intercity train drops them right in the heart of the town they visit
- The pub they frequent there and any other stops are located within a short walk of the local train station
- The cost of the public transport compares favourably to the fuel costs involved
- And it's quicker when Dublin traffic; weather conditions; etc are accounted for

And they honestly would never even dream of getting the train - they would think it weird. **** those people. They can continue to use their car, but the premium they need to pay should be escalated gradually year by year as we deliberately and openly incentivise investment and priority elsewhere.

We need to do this, even though it will discommode the car salespeople; the car park owners; those who just like the convenience of their car (or supposed convenience as per this thread); the NIMBYs. This isn't a Dublin / rural issue. It isn't a ideological issue. I don't hate cars or drivers or people from the country.

I do however see the trends on the environment; the stranglehold this problem has on the potential of our largest cities and therefore wider economy and economic prosperity. The quicker we start the better it will be. We've been talking about this since the early 70's and have done so little of what we could see was needed then.

ED E · 30-11-2018 3:17pm

A simple first step: Close the DCC staff carpark.

magicbastarder · 30-11-2018 4:03pm

i suspect there's not nearly as many parking spaces available simply for the use of staff to commute to work as people think there are.
speaking as someone who has parked in that car park.

mrcheez · 30-11-2018 4:29pm

amcalester wrote: »

What improvements can you suggest?

get on yer bike

Dravokivich · 30-11-2018 4:35pm

con___manx1 wrote: »

The companys dont have to go to the city ill give leixlip in kildare as an example. Intel ireland are based there with thousands of people working in the place. Its not to far from dublin but there are alot of towns that within an hour or two of the city. Not that far from the airport Really.

I commute from Clondalkin to Leixlip. It's a nightmare using public transport. Bus Connects doesn't solve it either. So I drive as a result. Been without a car for all of november and the commute takes 2 -> 2.5 hours.

Cienciano · 30-11-2018 4:46pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

I commute from Clondalkin to Leixlip. It's a nightmare using public transport. Bus Connects doesn't solve it either. So I drive as a result. Been without a car for all of november and the commute takes 2 -> 2.5 hours.

That's the problem, unless you work in the city public transport is a pain in the arse. Working and living on different areas on the outskirts of the city and forget about public transport. I travel about 10km on the M50 daily, even a bad day is a far far quicker than the bus.

Cienciano · 30-11-2018 4:50pm

con___manx1 wrote: »

Amsterdam only has a population of around 800000. Dublin is bigger. The roads arnt great for traffic in amsterdan thats all im trying to say. There are alot of narrow streets.Also there is hardly a hill in the whole of holland never mind amsterdam : ) its a flat country it suits bikes down to the ground. I actually love that. im not anti bike.
I seen a black and white picture of o Connell street before in a pub. There were hundreds of people on bikes im guessing it was taken in the 40ths or 50ths. Id love to see a return to that but i cant see it happening.

I know the photos you're talking about, but I would guess a lot of those cyclists lived and worked in the city. They don't live in commuter towns. Not to mention old tram system we had.

RayCun · 30-11-2018 4:52pm

Cienciano wrote: »

That's the problem, unless you work in the city public transport is a pain in the arse. Working and living on different areas on the outskirts of the city and forget about public transport. I travel about 10km on the M50 daily, even a bad day is a far far quicker than the bus.

If your journey was LUAS or DART to city and LUAS or DART out again, a journey from one side of the city to the other would be doable on public transport. The aim is to get buses to the same level of speed and reliability.

But if your journey is 10km on the M50 a direct route is presumably shorter, so cycling is a better option...

Cienciano · 30-11-2018 4:57pm

RayCun wrote: »

If your journey was LUAS or DART to city and LUAS or DART out again, a journey from one side of the city to the other would be doable on public transport. The aim is to get buses to the same level of speed and reliability.

But if your journey is 10km on the M50 a direct route is presumably shorter, so cycling is a better option...

Cycling isn't an option for everyone.

LeinsterDub · 30-11-2018 5:18pm

Cienciano wrote: »

Cycling isn't an option for everyone.

Nor is driving but that doesn't stop the government spending billions on it.

tom1ie · 30-11-2018 5:29pm

Cienciano wrote: »

Cycling isn't an option for everyone.

Honest question here, but on what grounds is cycling not for everyone?
Are we talking people who have a disability?
People who have a 20 km cycle?

trellheim · 30-11-2018 6:08pm

The fastest way to stop the congestion is zonal tolling between junctions and increase it up to Port Tunnel levels as required. If it cost a tenner to go between J1 and J2 and every other junction after that it would magically clear the road.

Thats not saying its the right way, just the fastest way.

30-11-2018 6:13pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

I commute from Clondalkin to Leixlip. It's a nightmare using public transport. Bus Connects doesn't solve it either. So I drive as a result. Been without a car for all of november and the commute takes 2 -> 2.5 hours.

Walking would be more reliably 2 hours.

Cienciano · 30-11-2018 6:34pm

tom1ie wrote: »

Honest question here, but on what grounds is cycling not for everyone?
Are we talking people who have a disability?
People who have a 20 km cycle?

Bringing kids to school. Having to go to different places during the day. Having to do stuff on the way home. Pick up kids. Having no shower at work

M50 - apalling gridlock

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