M50 - apalling gridlock

Tell me how

gflood wrote: »

Until we improve situations like this carbon taxes should be postponed.

How many of those cars contributing to the traffic these mornings have single person occupancy?

Say you could cut the number of cars using it by 30% with ride sharing, wouldn't that have a serious impact on reducing traffic.

Carbon taxes or other incentives which finally make people change their behaviour are essential.

The problem for M50 as I see it, is it only tolls at one place. So many people are not paying the toll - most I guess that use it only travel a few junctions.

There should be register on at every junction, and toll off at every junction. The no more on at Tallaght off at Firhouse, example.

.......

Deleted User wrote: »

There should be register on at every junction, and toll off at every junction. The no more on at Tallaght off at Firhouse, example.

Youd be off your rocker to take the M50 for a trip between Tallaght and Firhouse, its FAR faster to just drive up the Old Bawn Road.

tomplate

How does anyone drive on it

Seriously I go up to Dublin once a year and it's like a fukkin rodeo ride when you get on it

.......

....... wrote: »

Youd be off your rocker to take the M50 for a trip between Tallaght and Firhouse, its FAR faster to just drive up the Old Bawn Road.

I think you may have miss the point

Alkers

amcalester wrote:

What improvements can you suggest?

These are all short term measures that could be implemented in the near-term before the necessary public transport infrastructure could be developed:

The variable speed limits will improve flows somewhat, providing it's combined with proper enforcement.

Enforcement of existing rules would go some way to help also - I'm envisaging maybe four dedicated motorcycle gardai to pick up on tailgating, speeding, phones etc as well as average speed cameras in tandem with the variable speed limits.

Make it an offence to brake down on the M50 and start charging people with driving without due care and attention for rear-end incidents.

Make lane three for motorcycles and multi-occupancy vehicles only.

Work with Dublin port to see if they can re-jig ferry times to minimise departures and arrivals at peak traffic times.

Increase the toll charge at peak times - encourage people to vary their working hours

yoke

amcalester wrote: »

What improvements can you suggest?

Why doesn’t the government give incentives to businesses to allow more employees to work from home?

I’ve been lucky enough to be able to work from home for the past 6 years and it really is the way to go if you want to reduce carbon emissions as well as reduce congestion at peak times.

If even 25% of jobs could be done from home with a good broadband connection, you’d probably solve the M50 problem.

Spanish Eyes

I haven't thought this through infrastructure or cost wise, so forgive my impulsive post.

But wouldn't it be great if there was a LUAS or Bus only corridor parallel to M50 hooking up with Red Cow and Ballogan luas. Together with hubs at all junctions to link with the DB new "Spines" under Bus Connects.

I know, I know.

ED E

We have bus lanes. They're full of taxis and parked white vans. And private cars skipping the queue.

Rigid enforcement of them = much better bus service. Right now a bus and a private car take 40 minutes to get into town. If bus lanes meant something the bus would take 20 and the car 50. Suddenly the bus is farrrr more attractive.

Tell me how

amcalester wrote: »

What improvements can you suggest?

Flexible working hours or working from home.
Innovation fund to develop ride sharing app
Tax breaks or toll reduction for designated ride sharing users
Incentives to companies to move out of Dublin
Encourage private bus operators to run park and ride or regular bus stop connect
Penalise users of bus lanes
Encourage more cycling by putting in adequate facilities
Increase incentive value of bike to work scheme

Brian CivilEng

facehugger99 wrote: »

The population densities are too low to be cost-effectively served by anything else.

Can't let this myth go unremarked on. Dublin is not a low density city, Dublin is medium density and compares to similar sized European cities such as Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Munich etc. All of which support a more comprehensive rail based public transport network than we currently do.

Irish Cycle did a good article on it:
http://irishcycle.com/2015/11/03/is-dublin-a-low-density-city/

LeinsterDub

facehugger99 wrote: »

A colossally expensive project that will have a near negligible impact on traffic volumes

In a thread that a suggested building a M50 on top of the M50 that's quite the claim.

Metro plus dart expansion would help greatly. Constantly building roads has failed its time to look at alternatives

Seth Brundle

The reality is that the M50 is oversubscribed because of a lack of alternatives but also because of laziness.
The bigger delays like today were down to incidents which I assume, having driven the M50 daily for years, was down to a combination of selfishness, incompetence and lack of attention.

Anyhow, how will we improve commuting times given the crap spouted by both the public and by certain media against the likes of the BusConnects plan?

We still don't want to get out of our cars. We need to make it easier to use public transport and more difficult to opt for the car.
We invest huge amounts of money each year facilitating car usage and little towards more sustainable modes of transport. Then we complain that people are using their cars.

I now cycle to work twice a week and drive the other days (I really should be cycling every day). However, the attitude of other drivers towards me is scary. Some drivers will try and punish cyclists for using the road. Our mindset is firmly towards car = good and everythign else is bad. This needs to change as it's only going to get worse.

Dravokivich

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If you build more roads, you get more traffic.

We need to incentive employers to hire people who live locally, wherever possible, to remove the crazy commutes.

Not too sure how that'll be acheivable.

1) its discrimination
2) people can't afford to live in Dublin, it's why they are driving in from surrounding counties.

The M50 is overwhelemed because it's seen as a border point for the city. THere needs to be an over arching ring road for Dublin, to move people around who are coming up from Carlow, Loais, Offally, Longford, Meath, Cavan and Louth.

What public transport plan would sort that out? Bus Connects with transport Hubs based around major junctions on the M50?

no.8

facehugger99 wrote: »

Wow, you're pretty touchy. I've worked for over 20 years in transportation engineering and associated planning - so, yeah it's an opinion but one based on some experience.

The solutions to Dublin's transportation problems are actually quite simple but unfortunately not terribly sexy or popular with the voters who tend to like big shiny (and expensive) solutions like Metros.

Congestion-charges combined with a complete expansion of the bus network -routes, frequencies, etc. would work.

The population densities are too low to be cost-effectively served by anything else.

If you price most motorists off the road and provide quality bus routes and decent cycling infrastructure you'd solve the problems within 2-4 years.

Sorry but I (and probably many of us here) wouldn't agree with that. I've lived in several cities (either side of the scale/density of Dublin) it most certainly is large and dense enough to support integrated railed (metro) solutions. Most of those had a mix of bicycle, car. bus, commuter rail and intercity rail systems.. I don't what the hell the 'big shiny' remark is, we had an extensive railway system over 100 years ago and its a workhorse solution, almost fully independent of influence from incidents on the road. An integrated solution is required, not just by pushing all means of public transport on to the road. Sorry, it might be fancy for you, but for many of us its just the modern world of low risk, high reward future-orientated mass transportation.

alig1234

_https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/rteradiowebpage.html#!rii=b9_21464591_15036_19-11-2018_

Interesting indepth review on M50 congestion on Sean O'rourkes Radio show on RTE on 19/11/2018 well worth a listen which points to rubbernecking as being the main problem in delays on the M50, i.e. people who when they see even a (minor) accident, stop their car in the fastlane to take a photo. Sad sad people.

Seth Brundle

Dravokivich wrote: »

The M50 is overwhelemed because it's seen as a border point for the city. THere needs to be an over arching ring road for Dublin, to move people around who are coming up from Carlow, Loais, Offally, Longford, Meath, Cavan and Louth.

We don't need another road. We need to get people off their arses and use sustainable transport!

Seth Brundle

alig1234 wrote: »

Interesting indepth review on M50 congestion on Sean O'rourkes Radio show on RTE on 19/11/2018 well worth a listen which points to rubbernecking as being the main problem in delays on the M50, i.e. people who when they see even a (minor) accident, stop their car in the fastlane to take a photo. Sad sad people.

There is no such thing on our road network!

Dravokivich

Seth Brundle wrote: »

We don't need another road. We need to get people off their arses and use sustainable transport!

How is someone going to do that from Carlow that needs to get to Sandyford/east point/swords/etc...? Bus Connects still brings them upto the M50 to get to a hub. They won't gain transferring to a bus. Or a Bus, that's to connect to a Luas, Metro, Train, Dart. Everything from there is coming into the M50. It needs to be dissapated beforehand.

LeinsterDub

Dravokivich wrote: »

2) people can't afford to live in Dublin, it's why they are driving in from surrounding counties.

You achieve it my changing what in Dublin means. Metrolink would put swords in the heart of the the city. Dart expansion would make Maynooth the equivalent of Malahide today.

Dravokivich

LeinsterDub wrote: »

You achieve it my changing what in Dublin means. Metrolink would put swords in the heart of the the city. Dart expansion would make Maynooth the equivalent of Malahide today.

All well and good but, the M50 isn't blocked by people commuting from within the city. N11, N7, N4, M1 are all chock a block full of cars from surrounding counties, aiming for the M50 as the only major route way around the county. Add Bus Connects and they are still aiming for the M50 as that's where the transport hubs will be.

LeinsterDub

Dravokivich wrote: »

All well and good but, the M50 isn't blocked by people commuting from within the city. N11, N7, N4, M1 are all chock a block full of cars from surrounding counties, aiming for the M50 as the only major route way around the county. Add Bus Connects and they are still aiming for the M50 as that's where the transport hubs will be.

Motorways are interesting beasts. They'll perform perfectly up to a certain capacity and then a 1% change and the performance falls off a cliff. If you give the Dublin commuters options it helps everyone. BusConnects isn't going to use the M50 or be the hubs. While Blanch and Tallaght are touted to be hubs its not because they are on the M50

mugsymugsy

Whilst there is a large volume and it's over subscribed the bloody idiots chopping lanes, using slip roads as a 4th lane and coming back in late don't help.

The M50 hits the fan when there is an accident or a break down. If we can eradicate that first that would be a start.

Seth Brundle

Dravokivich wrote: »

All well and good but, the M50 isn't blocked by people commuting from within the city. N11, N7, N4, M1 are all chock a block full of cars from surrounding counties, aiming for the M50 as the only major route way around the county. Add Bus Connects and they are still aiming for the M50 as that's where the transport hubs will be.

You are seeing change as a Dublin thing: it should not be so. It needs to be a nationwide mindset change.
If you want to get to Dublin (or any other city) then use public transport. If you choose to use a car then you should be kept separate to public transport.
Enforced buslanes (with no taxis) outside of the M50!

hotmail.com

Seth Brundle wrote:

I now cycle to work twice a week and drive the other days (I really should be cycling every day). However, the attitude of other drivers towards me is scary. Some drivers will try and punish cyclists for using the road. Our mindset is firmly towards car = good and everythign else is bad. This needs to change as it's only going to get worse.

I seen a driver beeping like crazy at a cyclist along a city road because the driver couldn't get passed him quickly enough.

It must have been scary for the cyclist.

This beeping at cyclists is a daily thing now and it's very frustrating.

MarkHenderson

I work for an employer in Sandyford and i know for a fact they are now making it a priority to hire people who live within the area be it cycling/walking distance or Luas. One thing they have noticed is people that are making these 2hr commutes from outside Dublin are far less productive on the whole and far less likely to be in work on time on a daily basis. I'm one of the lucky ones as i live a mere 10 minutes walk from my workplace and i genuinely feel sorry for some of my workmates who are often mentally drained by the time they arrive in work.

Dravokivich

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Motorways are interesting beasts. They'll perform perfectly up to a certain capacity and then a 1% change and the orefor

It's nothing to do with it being a motorway. It's the only road around Dublin that bypassess all the towns and villages to get from north to south. The other options are Maynooth (With a small regional road), Leixlip (With a small regional road), Lucan (With a small regional road), Chapelizod (With a small regional road) and then the City itself.

Seth Brundle wrote: »

You are seeing change as a Dublin thing: it should not be so. It needs to be a nationwide mindset change.
If you want to get to Dublin (or any other city) then use public transport. If you choose to use a car then you should be kept separate to public transport.
Enforced buslanes (with no taxis) outside of the M50!

How am I, when I'm suggesting an issue regarding people coming from beyond the county, who may not be wanting to get to the city?

Tell me how

Seth Brundle wrote: »

You are seeing change as a Dublin thing: it should not be so. It needs to be a nationwide mindset change.
If you want to get to Dublin (or any other city) then use public transport. If you choose to use a car then you should be kept separate to public transport.
Enforced buslanes (with no taxis) outside of the M50!

It may come as a surprise to many but the rest of the country does not have the DART, LUAS or the frequency of Dublin Bus when it comes to considering public transport.

It definitely should be a nationwide strategy but lets maybe consider the pushing of jobs and people in to the bottle neck which is Dublin while so many other parts of the country see their populations and services drop.

How about utilising Shannon and Cork airports more as opposed to a second runway at Dublin? Would that not help reduce traffic on the M50?

LeinsterDub

Some people on this thread would be great in the NRA the solution to too much gun crime? More guns! The solution to too much traffic? More cars!

Seth Brundle

hotmail.com wrote: »

I seen a driver beeping like crazy at a cyclist along a city road because the driver couldn't get passed him quickly enough.

It must have been scary for the cyclist.

This beeping at cyclists is a daily thing now and it's very frustrating.

Beeping isn't bad compared to some other stuff...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkcmkq1kmgU