M50 - apalling gridlock

LeinsterDub

metricspaces wrote: »

Ah here. Come on now. You have to be telling lies. Sure a few posts back we were told that public transport is the only way to reduce grid lock on the M50.

No one said the only way.

metricspaces

LeinsterDub wrote: »

No one said the only way.

They did.

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Pubic transport is the only solution.

Hurrache

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Why?

Access primarily, and the cost of prime city centre land.

Tell me how

Hurrache wrote: »

Access primarily, and the cost of prime city centre land.

In this case, there is already a hospital on the land.

I do agree though that it should have been in one of the alternative proposed locations. Primarily because of access.

LeinsterDub

metricspaces wrote: »

They did.

Fair enough I stand corrected. Claiming public transport is the only way to improve the situation is silly

Nermal

Tell me how wrote: »

We need to stop thinking of Ireland as a resource solely to fill Dublin's needs.

Is this a joke?

Just under €70M per year of the €200M LPT raised in Dublin gets reallocated elsewhere. That could be paying the bond on Dart Underground instead of filling in potholes in hamlets in the middle of nowhere.

To say nothing of the plan to waste literally billions on hooking the peasantry up to fibre broadband.

Tell me how

Nermal wrote: »

Is this a joke?

Just under €70M per year of the €200M LPT raised in Dublin gets reallocated elsewhere. That could be paying the bond on Dart Underground instead of filling in potholes in hamlets in the middle of nowhere.

To say nothing of the plan to waste literally billions on hooking the peasantry up to fibre broadband.

Forgive me if I think you are biased beyond logic on this and therefore have no interest in 'debating'.

ED E

Nermal wrote: »

in hamlets in the middle of nowhere.

Correction: We dont have hamlets. We have crossroads. If it were hamlets the cost of this would be 1/3 or less.

RayCun

There are three possible levels of action

Individual level - look for alternatives to single-occupancy car use. Public transport, cycling, car pooling

Companies - increase support for flexitime, working from home, moving offices out of Dublin

Government level - prioritise more efficient use of road space - public transport and cycling over private cars (and car parking)

Brian CivilEng

Tell me how wrote: »

The available public transport would not be able to facilitate the volumes driving on the M50 no matter how much force is used.

More people already use public transport to commute in Dublin than use the M50. Don't be fooled by the fact that the M50 looks full, 6000 cars per direction per hour would fill the M50. That amount of cars is probably only about 8000 people, considering the amount of single occupancy cars. The DART can carry 1400 people per service, so one every 10 minutes means 8400 per hour.

tom1ie

realdanbreen wrote: »

What, with like guns and stuff?

Well...tax incentives, hikes on diesel, petrol and car tax, hikes on tolls, these would be the stick,
Proper camera based enforcement of bus lanes, more busses, tax incentives for bus passes, these would be the incentives.
Oh and guns. Lots of guns.

con___manx1

The only way the govenment will sort out the traffic problem is if they decentralise jobs. The public transport in dublin is a joke compared to other city's. They should offer incentives to companys to set up away from the city. If they dont its gonna get much worse very soon. In the last two years iv been working up that way and its gottn much worse since i started. I wonder what it will be like in two more years : )

tom1ie

con___manx1 wrote: »

The only way the govenment will sort out the traffic problem is if they decentralise jobs. The public transport in dublin is a joke compared to other city's. They should offer incentives to companys to set up away from the city. If they dont its gonna get much worse very soon. In the last two years iv been working up that way and its gottn much worse since i started. I wonder what it will be like in two more years : )

So where would you incentivize business to set up in Ireland outside of Dublin that isn’t already chocked up with traffic gridlock, but also has excellent airport links (for international business), decent water supply, decent broadband, access to a large population, access to hospitals, schools etc.
Every other city in Ireland is chocking on traffic also.
The problem is people feeling they are entitled to drive their car where they want, when clearly a functioning city should be public Transport based.
The nta and government need to fast track all pt projects, and reduce car usage to an absolute minimum.

Tazzimus

gflood wrote: »

Appalling Grid all this week on M50. Northbound today was back up to Sandyford. When I hear about upcoming "carbon tax" changes I wonder how much wasted fuel happens every morning with the Dublin commute due to crap infrastructure. Not to mention peoples time.


Until we improve situations like this carbon taxes should be postponed.

Todays was a crash at J6 that blocked all three lanes.

Before we go about upgrading the road, we could look at educating people a bit better on how to drive on it.
Nearly every day there's a crash morning and evening to contend with, and once that happens, mayhem for the road and surrounding areas as people try to get around it.

Edit: Wasn't shifting through 12 pages so this may have been mentioned already, no harm reiterating it though.

tom1ie

Tazzimus wrote: »

Todays was a crash at J6 that blocked all three lanes.

Before we go about upgrading the road, we could look at educating people a bit better on how to drive on it.
Nearly every day there's a crash morning and evening to contend with, and once that happens, mayhem for the road and surrounding areas as people try to get around it.

This is the flaw with a car based system.
Remove the car from the commuting system and you don’t have a problem.

con___manx1

tom1ie wrote: »

So where would you incentivize business to set up in Ireland outside of Dublin that isn’t already chocked up with traffic gridlock, but also has excellent airport links (for international business), decent water supply, decent broadband, access to a large population, access to hospitals, schools etc.
Every other city in Ireland is chocking on traffic also.
The problem is people feeling they are entitled to drive their car where they want, when clearly a functioning city should be public Transport based.
The nta and government need to fast track all pt projects, and reduce car usage to an absolute minimum.

The companys dont have to go to the city ill give leixlip in kildare as an example. Intel ireland are based there with thousands of people working in the place. Its not to far from dublin but there are alot of towns that within an hour or two of the city. Not that far from the airport Really.

Tazzimus

tom1ie wrote: »

This is the flaw with a car based system.
Remove the car from the commuting system and you don’t have a problem.

A good commuting system is needed first before we can do that

you just know that the silly government response will be to put in those tolls all along the road that were talked about before.

Ireland is just a joke in terms of infrastructure planning and execution in general.

Being a coastal city doesn't help but many other countries have managed it.

With another global economy correction due in the next few years (that's the cycle) the coffers will not exactly be full either.

mfceiling

tom1ie wrote: »

This is the flaw with a car based system.
Remove the car from the commuting system and you don’t have a problem.

Wrong...the m50 is mental busy but a lot of the problems are...

People on phones
People rubber necking
People not paying attention
People (pricks) cutting across lanes at the last second to get off the m50 at their exit
People not understanding how to merge properly
People "sitting" (dawdling) in the middle and outside lane
People tailgating
People braking for no apparent reason


See the problem ^^

People.

If the speed limit on the M50 was reduced to say 70 or 80 kph and was heavily policed (cameras and garda) and people were regularly stopped and prosecuted for the reasons above then the road would flow better.
I'm not saying it would solve the problem (a massive investment in public transport is needed) but it would definitely enable the volumes on the M50 to be managed better.

ED E

con___manx1 wrote: »

The only way the govenment will sort out the traffic problem is if they decentralise jobs. The public transport in dublin is a joke compared to other city's. They should offer incentives to companys to set up away from the city. If they dont its gonna get much worse very soon. In the last two years iv been working up that way and its gottn much worse since i started. I wonder what it will be like in two more years : )

Why? Dublin doesn't have much more jobs than other cities, say Copenhagen.

Having a central business district is normal. Just not everyone can drive to it.

Effects

ED E wrote: »

Why? Dublin doesn't have much more jobs than other cities, say Copenhagen.

There's no rain in either of those videos. That's what puts me off cycling in bad weather. But then I'd rather take the bus than drive in rush hour.

But wasn't there a report a few years ago that Copenhagen gets more rain each year than Dublin?

tom1ie

mfceiling wrote: »

Wrong...the m50 is mental busy but a lot of the problems are...

People on phones
People rubber necking
People not paying attention
People (pricks) cutting across lanes at the last second to get off the m50 at their exit
People not understanding how to merge properly
People "sitting" (dawdling) in the middle and outside lane
People tailgating
People braking for no apparent reason


See the problem ^^

People.

If the speed limit on the M50 was reduced to say 70 or 80 kph and was heavily policed (cameras and garda) and people were regularly stopped and prosecuted for the reasons above then the road would flow better.
I'm not saying it would solve the problem (a massive investment in public transport is needed) but it would definitely enable the volumes on the M50 to be managed better.

WRONG
You answered your own question. If all the people you describe above got public transport and allowed the employed drivers to ferry them from a to b all those problems you describe would disappear.
I know it’s hard for you to understand but people are crap drivers, so take them out of their cars and put them in public transport where they can’t harm each other.

ED E

Effects wrote: »

There's no rain in either of those videos. That's what puts me off cycling in bad weather. But then I'd rather take the bus than drive in rush hour.

But wasn't there a report a few years ago that Copenhagen gets more rain each year than Dublin?

There's fvckin lashings of of snow!

And Dublin gets feck all rain. Ireland gets feck all rain in fact, we just get little bits dispersed over many days so its annoying.

Just one website:
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Geography/Average-rainfall-in-depth/Mm-per-year

Depending on the year we rate about 80th. And a lot more falls on the west coast so Dublin would rank much lower on its own.

Idbatterim

how can they solve the ridiculous low density sprawl of the housing estates and business parks? they cant! I dont see how getting rid of the car is practical for a large amount of people! Due to the idiotic planning decisions that have been made... The damage is done! That golf course beside the red cow luas should be CPO'd and used for high density apartments and the same with many of the old business parks etc on 'high quality' transport corridors!

the eastern bypass should be completed, the port moved to bremore as per the plans years ago... Dublin port are now looking at constructing a new crossing from the north to south port... I wonder if tracks for the luas to serve the IGBS could be a part of that... Traffic over the east link is farcical....

tom1ie

Idbatterim wrote: »

how can they solve the ridiculous low density sprawl of the housing estates and business parks? they cant! I dont see how getting rid of the car is practical for a large amount of people! Due to the idiotic planning decisions that have been made... The damage is done! That golf course beside the red cow luas should be CPO'd and used for high density apartments and the same with many of the old business parks etc on 'high quality' transport corridors!

Agree with a lot of this, but we have to reduce car commuting one way or the other.
Park and rides should be built on all the major spine routes into the cc, then run qbc’s on these spine routes with high frequency busses. Intersect these with orbital bus routes until all of bus connects comes online.
Promote car pooling in work.
Get people to cycle, but put money into cycling infrastructure.

Idbatterim

Id wonder about the practicality of all retail only opening from 10am or onwards, like they enforce with Ikea?

Terrlock

What about the idea of actually banning all cars off the road altogether.

RayCun

con___manx1 wrote: »

The companys dont have to go to the city ill give leixlip in kildare as an example. Intel ireland are based there with thousands of people working in the place. Its not to far from dublin but there are alot of towns that within an hour or two of the city. Not that far from the airport Really.

Take Leixlip as an example then. If the company I work for moved there, half of our employees would start looking for another job.

All the people who like living and working in the city centre would be pissed off. All the people who use the bus or DART to get to work would be pissed off. All the people who get a train that doesn't go through Leixlip would be pissed off. All the people who can cycle to the city centre would be pissed off.

A handful of people would be better off, and another handful no different, but for most people it would be much worse.

It makes sense for Intel because they are in manufacturing and need space, but not for office work.

metricspaces

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Fair enough I stand corrected. Claiming public transport is the only way to improve the situation is silly

I agree. We need to think outside the yellow box!

Tell me how

RayCun wrote: »

Take Leixlip as an example then. If the company I work for moved there, half of our employees would start looking for another job.

All the people who like living and working in the city centre would be pissed off. All the people who use the bus or DART to get to work would be pissed off. All the people who get a train that doesn't go through Leixlip would be pissed off. All the people who can cycle to the city centre would be pissed off.

A handful of people would be better off, and another handful no different, but for most people it would be much worse.

It makes sense for Intel because they are in manufacturing and need space, but not for office work.

Maybe so as you are already based in the city centre. But if you were looking for a job would you rule out such a company if it was based in Leixlip or would you just accept that as a reality.

Change is not easy, look it the decentralisation fiasco. But where new businesses are considering location, they should be directed to alternative locations where possible.