Picard 1x03 - "The End is the Beginning" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

did the producer say something like, get a pilot character like that guy in The Expanse? :pac:

kind of a meh episode for me, at least it might mean the rumours of the quality dipping after episode 3 aren't true

Goodshape wrote: »

That’s kind of the problem though – Beverly calling him Jean-Luc, on occasion, said something of their long and detailed – and previously explained – relationship.

But it just doesn’t feel right that Raffi, or anyone really, would have gotten so close in such a short space of time that they felt comfortable referring to Captain – or Admiral – Picard as “JL”.

And perhaps even more importantly, it just sounds awful and unnatural. Like the writers wanted a quick and easy way to show these two have some sort of special bond, but never cared to think about how it actually sounds when spoken.


Dreadful start for that character anyway. Hope it improves.

This ground my gears no end. Nobody would ever be so informal around Picard. Its just not natural for his character. He commands respect always. It jarred badly.

80sChild wrote: »

This ground my gears no end. Nobody would ever be so informal around Picard. Its just not natural for his character. He commands respect always. It jarred badly.

Yes and I think people overestimate Patrick Stewart's understanding of the character. He sat there and did the scenes thinking it was normal???

Calhoun wrote: »

I thought Picard is exploring the character a bit more, he is not a one dimensional boyscout of the federation where everything works out and he commands respect just based on who he is.

But that's the way rank operates. Its not about respect for the person it's for the uniform and pips. Its a crappy writing decision

The first reviews were complaining the show was running "too fast" and should "slow down" - reviews based on the first 3 episodes, which were released as a block to the press. So freaking funny, when then viewers complain it's slow, and nobody has left Earth yet until the very end of the 3rd episode.

I frankly think the pacing to be good enough - not super-fast-actiony, but also not the "but wait, there's more!" infuriating slowpoke a lot of TV series since "Lost" have been guilty of.

Could it be better? Of course; The Zhat Vash plot thing is a bit of a forced one that verges perilously into "prequel" territory - why go and mess around with something as established as the Tal Shiar when they could have introduced something new entirely? The fact Romulans don't rate "Synthetic lifeforms" nor AI high was already a thing - the two parter "Redemption" from TNG pretty much shows that - Sela leads her whole fleet into failure because she greatly underestimated Data's command and decisional skills, purely based on the fact he was an android (Data's Starfleet crew don't trust him either, initially). That should have been enough without inventing "big baddies behind the scenes" pulling the strings of the Tal Shiar.

In general, however, the show flows and makes me want to see more - no "oh dear, do you guys think I'm an idiot?" roll-eye moments that are so common in Discovery, at least for now. The one thing I can see will be confusing for a lot of viewers is the fact that there's a lot of plot devices that have a deep connection from other media - especially the "Countdown" comic; Chiefly, the fact Raffi Musiker is essentially a drug addict, which is implied to be the main reason behind Starfleet kicking her out as soon as Picard, having resigned, could not intercede for her anymore.

FGR wrote: »

Wait - unless there's a fourth issue I haven't read - I don't recall reading anything about drug addiction in the countdown comic ?

Well the novel just came out today, so I'll let you know if there are any parts with her chasing the dragon!

AMKC wrote: »

I think she is awesome and exactly how a Romulan would be.

Only if Romulus is space Alabama.

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Yeah I went to look back at it - seems like my memory blended together the comic and a couple of articles that "introduced" the character. Still, the point of the show not explaining things and leaving it to the "oh people will know because Intetnet!" approach remains, it WILL be confusing for many. Not everyone is constantly looking shoite up .

They have 10 episodes to get through, could they not just let the characters come through on screen instead of expecting people to internet their back story?
I understand for theatrical releases there's a clock ticking and stuff has to be cut but I think this just reflects inabilities in the writers.

Calhoun wrote: »

Either way is it really that bad that its ruining the whole thing for everyone?

Has anyone here actually said "JL" has ruined the series for them?

Evade wrote: »

It was probably the cringiest thing in this episode. There'll be another thing to get under everyone's skin next week.

Yeah...I do think people are actively looking for things to get pissed about in the show. Maybe in part it's fear stemming from the absolute dumpster fire that have been the JJ Movies and then Discovery.

As I posted before, ST:Picard ain't perfect and probably it's not the show many trekkies were dreaming about - let's be honest, many simply wanted them to get a shiny new Enterprise-F and pick up 22 years later as if nothing happened.

Still, even with the different undertones and the "betrayal" of the utopia concept, it delivers in terms of feeling part of the Star Trek universe.

I for one...can't understand why everything today has to be dark & moody; It's almost as if writers and producers consider the wider audience pretty much too stupid and self centered to appreciate views of a better, utopian future.

Then again, considering we're living in what's the most peaceful and rich era mankind has experienced so far, yet most people are all "oh we're sooooo doomed" based off what they see on the screen of their smartphone, the writers seem to be right on the money.

I think with the state of most fandoms at the moment its not hard to assume why people see possible rage in comments.

Evade wrote: »

Probably but I also think other people read rage where there isn't any. Sometimes it's just pointing out where they got something 90% right and then the last 10% is glaringly wrong. The Romulan disruptors are that way. They look like an evolution of the disruptor design seen before on TNG and all but then they're the wrong colour.

Good point - which also beggars belief as to why multi-million productions would make such stupid, little mistakes. It clearly speaks of either lack of attention or straight up ignorance about the product.

Case in point, the TOS uniforms in Discovery - they lacked the rank on the cuffs and had to be added in postproduction (CGI, if I remember correctly). Why? The production went on and hired one of the most highly regarded costume designers in Hollywood...who had never, ever seen an episode of Star Trek before and obviously didn't know about the cuff ranks detail. You'd expect the production to point it out to her, but nope - and the sad reality is that giving her just any Trekkie as an intern/assistant, could have prevented such issue. Same with the Romulan disruptors - anyone here would have been "great job on those disruptors, but they have to be green..." .

Evade wrote: »

Other times though someone on Picard will bring up a pretty deep cut like the northern Romulan thing. It's a direct reference to something Terry Farrel once said at a con about the difference in Trill make up between their first appearance on TNG and Jadzia's on DS9. That, or it's a huge coincidence.

Yeah that was pretty cool, I'm surprised a few people didn't get it - she even slaps the dude's forehead remarking how it's a giveaway of the fact he's a "stubborn northerner" .

Calhoun wrote: »

I think with the state of most fandoms at the moment its not hard to assume why people see possible rage in comments.

Yeah, but it's a bit of a slippery slope - I will never, ever deny there are complete nutcases in "fandoms" who live in a bubble of unrealistic expectations and just spit venom randomly; On the other hand, the pejorative "Toxic Fandom" has been widely used to shut down any form of criticism towards movies/series/products, by just tarring anyone who doesn't like them with one "-ist" or the other - pick your favourite

pixelburp wrote: »

Certainly I'd be the first to admit that it puts me on automatic defensive & on edge, knowing that those bad faith arguments are out there - and have even infiltrated this otherwise sober forum on occasion.

Same here. Really don't enjoy admitting that a particular episode has left me underwhelmed these days as the wingnuts will pounce on it to "prove" that their ****ty opinions are being vindicated. And then you have to spend the time countering that the weak points were due to simple bad writing and not diversity. Putting oneself in the "shut up, racist!" camp. The Discovery threads grew very tiresome for that reason.

I can only imagine if Voyager aired today. Every criticism of the show's weak points being seized upon with cries of "see, we were right! Paramount were wrong to do a show with a female captain! Oh and there's a female chief Engineer too! Where are all the men on the ship!?".

I honestly can't understand being hesitant to say you like/dislike something because people you don't like will agree with you.