Picard 1x03 - "The End is the Beginning" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

surprised everyone thought the emh was doing an irish accent. i thought it was yorkshire?? just listened back and i definitely think so. teensy bit starrrrrstruck!

don't like raffi. what are you on about raffi
borg bits are grand but all getting a bit mythological. she is THE DESTROYER!!

liked the next dig at picard 'oh she warned me you're a speech maker'

-Soji suddenly had a green light on her badge in the cube (the sign of danger). Then suddenly that was gone and not mentioned again.

might be one of those things they don't mention and it turns into a Thing in another ep

TheValeyard

bluewolf wrote: »

surprised everyone thought the emh was doing an irish accent. i thought it was yorkshire?? just listened back and i definitely think so. teensy bit starrrrrstruck!

don't like raffi. what are you on about raffi
borg bits are grand but all getting a bit mythological. she is THE DESTROYER!!

liked the next dig at picard 'oh she warned me you're a speech maker'


might be one of those things they don't mention and it turns into a Thing in another ep

Medical hologram is posh Brit

Navigation hologram is Irish poet.

redfacedbear

bluewolf wrote: »

surprised everyone thought the emh was doing an irish accent. i thought it was yorkshire?? just listened back and i definitely think so.

The emergency doctor had an english accent (which didn't sound too bad to my ears). The emergency navigation hologram had an irish accent - and was ropey as fcuk.

TheValeyard

redfacedbear wrote: »

The emergency doctor had an english accent (which didn't sound too bad to my ears). The emergency navigation hologram had an irish accent - and was ropey as fcuk.

Tom Cruise in Far and Away bad.

FutureGuy

This is a 6/10 start for me (first three episodes)

If it wasn’t trek, it’d be 3/10 and I’d have stopped watching because the writing is abysmal.

pah

FutureGuy wrote: »

Where did you read this?

I read it somewhere.

But now that you've asked i actually looked into it and.....no it's not true :P

Again according to nobody in authority but it's explained well here

https://www.quora.com/Is-the-25-difference-rule-of-Star-Trek-Discovery-a-real-thing

pah

FutureGuy wrote: »

This is a 6/10 start for me (first three episodes)

If it wasn’t trek, it’d be 3/10 and I’d have stopped watching because the writing is abysmal.

Interesting. If it wasn't Trek I would be giving it a 5 or 6/10 Because it is Trek I reckon it's more like a 3 or 4

Ye, medical was posh british. Was the second one actually described as being irish? I called him emh, meant enh. Second one is who i was on about, mr starrrrstruck

AMKC

TheValeyard wrote: »

Also, pretty sure Vulcans have inner eyelids so do not need sunglasses.

So either,

1) plot mistake
2) mirror Vulcan
3) Romulan spy

Also, pretty sure Vulcans have inner eyelids so do not need sunglasses.

Your right.

Slydice

Multiple Holograms are a cool idea! Like some sort of app that doesn't come with a skin but can have other parts tweaked. Voice, function and uniform sound reasonable, probably more.

I see someone on the io9 article for the episode mentioned them:
https://io9.gizmodo.com/star-trek-picard-finally-finds-its-crew-in-those-that-1841457827

We’re very briefly introduced not just to Rios in this episode, but La Sirena’s holographic crew, which are, uh...just Rioses with various accents? Which is both delightful—because you get to hear Santiago Cabrera have several arguments with himself in different voices—and, given the context of what Star Trek has already told us about synthetic labor in this time period, and its prior exploration of holographic rights through Voyager’s own EMH, also deeply disturbing. Is it just one hologram, with different personalities and accents depending on the duty it’s called up for (there was an EMH and an ENH)? Or multiple? And if so, why are they all Rioses? What’s that even like for their personalities, if they’re left on like Voyager’s Doctor?

Indeed, no reason not to be a full crew. Maybe down to computing power and holograpgic hardware. Also, how much can they be learning computers (Terminator style, do they have their learning switch on.. feels like they do)

Slydice

Oh! Just remembered the Transdimensional Photonic Species from that Voyager episode with Captain Proton and the Holodeck!

Be mad if they brought them back for the show

pixelburp

Was an ok episode, certainly the pace could be better. 3 episodes in and Picard has only left earth. Not even sure we've met the whole crew either, as I remember a Vulcan samurai from the trailers. How long is this series, 10, 13 episodes?

Not too hung up on the Oirish ENH, the actor is Uruguayan IIRC so can't expect miracles and the scene was played for laughs anyway.

Liked the background Easter egg of a Romulan with that old school, TNG era haircut. Nice touch.

Stark

pixelburp wrote: »

Was an ok episode, certainly the pace could be better. 3 episodes in and Picard has only left earth. Not even sure we've met the whole crew either, as I remember a Vulcan samurai from the trailers. How long is this series, 10, 13 episodes?

Only 10 I think. Hence why I think we're seeing all these weird scene jumps/plot jumping forward in nonsensical ways. Probably a **** load dumped during editing.

pixelburp

Stark wrote: »

Only 10 I think. Hence why I think we're seeing all these weird scene jumps/plot jumping forward in nonsensical ways. Probably a **** load dumped during editing.

That's not the pacing of a 10 episode show then. And we haven't even met 7of9 or Riker yet. I'd have presumed those were all pilot cameos but the fact they're clearly not, leaves me disappointed they're not proper surprises.

Oh and another note from the episode, was that the vibe between the Romulan siblings was creepily incestuous. Hope it wasn't just me, cos otherwise it makes me worry about myself lol.

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

That's not the pacing of a 10 episode show then. And we haven't even met 7of9 or Riker yet. I'd have presumed those were all pilot cameos but the fact they're clearly not, leaves me disappointed they're not proper surprises.

Oh and another note from the episode, was that the vibe between the Romulan siblings was creepily incestuous. Hope it wasn't just me, cos otherwise it makes me worry about myself lol.

100% all up in each other's business

TheValeyard

Definitely a bang of House Lannister off the two.

TheValeyard

pixelburp wrote: »

That's not the pacing of a 10 episode show then. And we haven't even met 7of9 or Riker yet. I'd have presumed those were all pilot cameos but the fact they're clearly not, leaves me disappointed they're not proper surprises.

Must have had lessons from the BBC on how to ruin surprises.

Sat himself down and said what accent is this enh doing, tell me

"he could be on Heartbeat. Terrible fake though"
It's not just me!

Also soji's romulan sounds like klingon when she's askin to be let in
VOQ

Also we rewatched the second one. Big safety speech plus "oh romulans are just dramatic ha ha everything's fine" plus green badge when she grabs ramdha definitely is going to = trouble! Maybe the romulan borg are all linked up again now

FGR

I'm trying to figure out how the Dr from Daystrum got her hands on a romulan disrupter to begin with as she was outside the room when she shot him.

Also disappointed Picard's romulan friends didn't accompany him - they're surely the most qualified/skilled to help him.

Also don't like the whole JL thing. Could you imagine Riker calling him anything like that in TNG? Or possibly Riker calling Admiral Nechayev Alynna! :pac: I was watching the Captain Picard Day clip on Youtube (still hilarious to this day) and it just shows that he's a close friend, but there's a limit!

Actually, given her rank, could you imagine Data referring to him as JL?

I presume, dare I say 'hope' that the payment this ship's captain is looking for is in the only known currency outside of the utopia of the Federation - Gold Pressed Latinum

Also - what was the reason for firing Riffi? I don't understand.

Otherwise I enjoyed the episode. Looking forward to where it takes us and hoping we'll see a cameo or two of a proper Starfleet Vessel.

Spear

Kinda indirect spoiler about Raffi:

Michelle Hurd has kinda implied in an interview that there's more to Raffi's firing than revealed in the episode.

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/star-trek-picard-star-michelle-hurd-explains-how-raffi-is-a-star-trek-game-changer

muckwarrior

First half of the episode was terrible. Second half was passable.

The actress playing Rafi is really bad. I've seen better acting in a school nativity than the flashback scene. The JL **** is annoying too, although obviously that's not her fault.

At first I thought the hologram was purposely cycling through different accents as some sort of joke, until it eventually seemed to settle on a terrible Irish accent.

pah

Michelle Hurd plays a character in Hawaii 5-0 and her acting was always fine in that IMO

Calhoun

I liked it, i know there is criticisms to it but im liking the overall story arch.

I didn't mind Rafi, she played her role in having Picard reflect on his past actions. The JL thing doesn't really annoy me, as in the wider universe he has always had a fairly strong bond with his XO and things are always a bit less formal.

Agree on the pacing, they definitely need to get him off planet. I had thought that because of his diagnosis in the last episode that he would see this mission as one last ditch effort and thats how he would end up meeting Will and Diana.

Will be interesting to see where they go with the Maddox arc and what other androids are undercover/what the connection between them and the borg is.

Be interesting to see how they end it all, whatever has been happening has been going on for over fourteen years, will the architects including those in starfleet get their comeupons.

5uspect

I have to admit that I’m not really enjoying this. There are some interesting ideas there but the execution and world building are very poor.

Calhoun

Might take until the next series for them to get it down, the whole 10 episode thing might be whats limiting them.

TomSweeney

JL ???

F*ck off!!

TomSweeney

Yester wrote: »

Engage!

About the only good part of the ep!!


Well that and the Borg stuff ...

TomSweeney

https://youtu.be/QmtpdTZGV04

funny review here ...

Tired Gardener

Worst things so far for me are the 'JL', and all the hologram interfaces. For some reason they just don't work for me.

Plot is also quite slow.

Rawr

One thing that kind of gets to me is that Picard resigned dramatically....off screen....which smacks of missed a opportunity, possibly even a rushed re-write.

The scene in my head works out as follows:

Fleet CIC: We will suspend all aid convoys to Romulan space until the Synth threat is contained.

Picard: No! We can't! Millions will *die* if we don't continue the convoys.

Fleet CIC: We must consider our priorities here first.

Picard: Either we at least try, like the StarFleet *I* rememeber...or....you accept my resignation.

Fleet CIC: We cannot.

(Picard stands up, takes off Comm Badge and lays it on table)

Picard: Then neither shall I.... (Walks out)


After all of the resignations we have seen over the TNG years, I was surprised that when it came to Picard, he hadn't done the dramatic "take my badge off and put on table" maneuver. I understand that they wanted him to still have his Comm badge for some scenes to work...but still the whole resignation from Starfleet lacked a lot of punch.

ManOfMystery

The JL thing feels like a minor quibble, but at the same time, very annoying. I can't envisage any situation where Picard - in Starfleet at the time - responds positively to any subordinate calling him 'JL'.

I get that it's meant to infer they had a very close relationship of some sort, but he also had a close relationship with most of the TNG crew. If Riker called him JL he would have got a raised eyebrow at the very least, and maybe a professional smackdown at worst.

With that said, perhaps he's meant to have mellowed a bit with age.

Stark

Rawr wrote:

One thing that kind of gets to me is that Picard resigned dramatically....off screen....which smacks of missed a opportunity, possibly even a rushed re-write.

I actually really enjoyed that bit.

I think a lot of people have a fantasy in their heads that if they were to resign from a job, it would be a big dramatic affair where they get to shove papers in their boss's face, turn around and strut out the door with their head high and ass cheeks pinched firm. Reality is it's often an upsetting and messy affair to leave somewhere on bad terms.

Picard obviously walked in expecting a dramatic showdown with Starfleet capitulating to a "I'll resign if you don't give me what I want" tantrum and got a smack of realism for his troubles. Not unlike when he arrogantly walked in expecting Starfleet to just grant him a ship and a crew in exchange for him accepting the "lowly rank" of captain.

ManOfMystery wrote:

The JL thing feels like a minor quibble, but at the same time, very annoying. I can't envisage any situation where Picard - in Starfleet at the time - responds positively to any subordinate calling him 'JL'.

I get that it's meant to infer they had a very close relationship of some sort, but he also had a close relationship with most of the TNG crew. If Riker called him JL he would have got a raised eyebrow at the very least, and maybe a professional smackdown at worst.

With that said, perhaps he's meant to have mellowed a bit with age.

Beverly Crusher used to call him "Jean-Luc" quite a bit. Albeit there were romantic overtones there.

Not sure if Riker ever called him "Jean-Luc" instead of "Captain". Obviously not on duty, but I think there might have been some off-duty scenes where he called him by first name.

Evade

Stark wrote: »

Beverly Crusher used to call him "Jean-Luc" quite a bit. Albeit there were romantic overtones there.

It's also possible that he was close enough to Jack that he called him Jean-Luc in off duty situations and what happened to him made Picard keep a more professional distance with future senior officers. Just speculation, no real evidence one way or the other.

Goodshape

That’s kind of the problem though – Beverly calling him Jean-Luc, on occasion, said something of their long and detailed – and previously explained – relationship.

But it just doesn’t feel right that Raffi, or anyone really, would have gotten so close in such a short space of time that they felt comfortable referring to Captain – or Admiral – Picard as “JL”.

And perhaps even more importantly, it just sounds awful and unnatural. Like the writers wanted a quick and easy way to show these two have some sort of special bond, but never cared to think about how it actually sounds when spoken.


Dreadful start for that character anyway. Hope it improves.

TheIrishGrover

Overall I am enjoying this show but not as much as I hoped I would. But I'm still glad it's on and look forward to the next episodes.

So far:

The Good

• Laris and the other Romulan. Great actors. Good to see them spring into action last week. No faffing about with "My God, what was that? They're here?" No, simply "They disabled alarm" proceed to kick arse
• Interesting ideas: Reclaiming the Borg/harvesting tech; Android/synthetic hack (Not uprising); Aftermath of last TNG Trek movie.
• Grown up use of grown up language (As opposed to it's silly use in Discovery)
• Liked Hugh in last episode

The Bad

• JL
• Romulan sister is ridiculously OTT. Dial it back a few notches. Jesus!
• Did I mention JL?

And The Meh

• Laris just dial back the Irishness a touch. Just a touch. No more "Cheeky Feckers"
• No problem really with the Oirish Emergency Holographic Navigator as long as we see it VERY rarely and as long as it's meant to be an ignorant caricature. (Maybe have O'Brien or Laris turn up: "What kind of accent is that?" "It's Irish" "Me hole it is" lol)
• The captain on the ship better be more than the one-note stereotype he seems to be. All he was missing was his "This one last job" speech.

Calhoun

I really like his two Romulan companions, its disappointing they wont be going with him.

The thing with the Romulans i thought was odd was the exploding northerners lol.

muckwarrior

What's the story with some Romulans looking just like Vulcans and others have the funny bulge on their forehead? Is it the 'Northerners' that have the different forehead?

pixelburp

Again, similar to the use of Romulan hair in the background, I've liked the attempts to flatten the continuity; here it's as simple as merging the 2009 bevelled forehead appearance into Prime canon by that most Trek of excuses - oh it's from the "North". It also makes for more genetic variety in its species, something often lacking in Trek IMO.

muckwarrior wrote: »

What's the story with some Romulans looking just like Vulcans and others have the funny bulge on their forehead? Is it the 'Northerners' that have the different forehead?

The bulge was an addition in the 2009 JJ Abrams film, which Picard is trying to at least acknowledge by nodding towards it being an affectation of Northern ROmulans.

Calhoun

pixelburp wrote: »

Again, similar to the use of Romulan hair in the background, I've liked the attempts to flatten the continuity; here it's as simple as merging the 2009 bevelled forehead appearance into Prime canon by that most Trek of excuses - oh it's from the "North". It also makes for more genetic variety in its species, something often lacking in Trek IMO.



The bulge was an addition in the 2009 JJ Abrams film, which Picard is trying to at least acknowledge by nodding towards it being an affectation of Northern ROmulans.

If they could stop exploding it would be great :pac::pac::pac:( i am joking i realize its kinda like their version of cyanide).

Evade

Bumpy forehead Romulans have been around since TNG.

Calhoun

Thing i don't get is visuals do change as we enhance our technology i don't understand why its an issue.

It nice for continuity when they explain why but some of the drama over it is unwarranted.

silverharp

did the producer say something like, get a pilot character like that guy in The Expanse? :pac:

kind of a meh episode for me, at least it might mean the rumours of the quality dipping after episode 3 aren't true

The_Wanderer

Been away for the last 5 days so missed this episode until now (and all spoilers thankfully).

Picard saying ENGAGE and hearing the TNG theme pretty much brought a tear to my eye. Much to the amusement of the other half.

Now to read the rest of the thread.

80sChild

Goodshape wrote: »

That’s kind of the problem though – Beverly calling him Jean-Luc, on occasion, said something of their long and detailed – and previously explained – relationship.

But it just doesn’t feel right that Raffi, or anyone really, would have gotten so close in such a short space of time that they felt comfortable referring to Captain – or Admiral – Picard as “JL”.

And perhaps even more importantly, it just sounds awful and unnatural. Like the writers wanted a quick and easy way to show these two have some sort of special bond, but never cared to think about how it actually sounds when spoken.


Dreadful start for that character anyway. Hope it improves.

This ground my gears no end. Nobody would ever be so informal around Picard. Its just not natural for his character. He commands respect always. It jarred badly.

pah

The_Wanderer wrote: »

Picard saying ENGAGE and hearing the TNG theme pretty much brought a tear to my eye.

It made me squirm in my seat with the 3 dopes picard had with him and the rubbish looking ship. Uuggjhh

pah

80sChild wrote: »

This ground my gears no end. Nobody would ever be so informal around Picard. Its just not natural for his character. He commands respect always. It jarred badly.

Yes and I think people overestimate Patrick Stewart's understanding of the character. He sat there and did the scenes thinking it was normal???

Calhoun

I thought Picard is exploring the character a bit more, he is not a one dimensional boyscout of the federation where everything works out and he commands respect just based on who he is.

pah

Calhoun wrote: »

I thought Picard is exploring the character a bit more, he is not a one dimensional boyscout of the federation where everything works out and he commands respect just based on who he is.

But that's the way rank operates. Its not about respect for the person it's for the uniform and pips. Its a crappy writing decision

silverharp

Calhoun wrote: »

I thought Picard is exploring the character a bit more, he is not a one dimensional boyscout of the federation where everything works out and he commands respect just based on who he is.

JL :pac:

H3llR4iser

The first reviews were complaining the show was running "too fast" and should "slow down" - reviews based on the first 3 episodes, which were released as a block to the press. So freaking funny, when then viewers complain it's slow, and nobody has left Earth yet until the very end of the 3rd episode.

I frankly think the pacing to be good enough - not super-fast-actiony, but also not the "but wait, there's more!" infuriating slowpoke a lot of TV series since "Lost" have been guilty of.

Could it be better? Of course; The Zhat Vash plot thing is a bit of a forced one that verges perilously into "prequel" territory - why go and mess around with something as established as the Tal Shiar when they could have introduced something new entirely? The fact Romulans don't rate "Synthetic lifeforms" nor AI high was already a thing - the two parter "Redemption" from TNG pretty much shows that - Sela leads her whole fleet into failure because she greatly underestimated Data's command and decisional skills, purely based on the fact he was an android (Data's Starfleet crew don't trust him either, initially). That should have been enough without inventing "big baddies behind the scenes" pulling the strings of the Tal Shiar.

In general, however, the show flows and makes me want to see more - no "oh dear, do you guys think I'm an idiot?" roll-eye moments that are so common in Discovery, at least for now. The one thing I can see will be confusing for a lot of viewers is the fact that there's a lot of plot devices that have a deep connection from other media - especially the "Countdown" comic; Chiefly, the fact Raffi Musiker is essentially a drug addict, which is implied to be the main reason behind Starfleet kicking her out as soon as Picard, having resigned, could not intercede for her anymore.