How about get a degree where there are jobs instead of crying about it.

creditcarder · 04-02-2020 12:30am

Kitty6277 wrote: »

That still doesn’t mean that will suit everyone. Not everyone wants to work in a trade, not everyone wants to open a business. I don’t agree with the notion of “get a degree just because there’s jobs in it”. Obviously you want to be able to work and use your degree but there’s no point in studying something you hate and then going on to work in a job you hate.

Now while I’m not saying yer man should have expected to get a job with his literature MA in rural Clare, the point I took from it was that he couldn’t even have gotten a job in his home country, that it was easier for him to move away, and that’s not right either.

Soldier on.

I mean there are options? You have to balance the benefits of living in your culture vs the life that you will be living. Eh, maybe it's because I'm a dude but working in a job that I don't want to work in is the norm for me :P

Always Tired · 04-02-2020 12:51am

I studied fine art. I never intended to work in some tedious corporate slave wage job. I knew I would probably be pretty poor as a result of following my passion. (Never thought it would be this bad, but costs of living has risen so much that it IS quite challenging to make ends meet at times.)

I don't expect there to be a job in my field in the small town I live in. I live here because it's cheap. I've been on the dole now 3 years, and for around 5 of the last 8 since graduating in 2011.

I would happily do something like work in a cafe or shop, but where I live there is still a severe lack of even those types of jobs. Only places ever hiring is a few hotels and takeaways and my experience in those was generally awful, work ridiculous hours when it suits them, get none when it doesn't, low pay, 75% of your colleagues speaking in some language other than English most of the time. Treated like absolute crap. Once you have either quit or got fired from the 3 or 4 of them in town there's nothing else left.

I'm now almost finished my 2nd stint of Jobpath. They havent referred me to a single job. They don't have any. I can't move for family reasons, and moving to Dublin or London or where the jobs are doesnt appeal to me. I love cities but the rents are insane so I just visit when I want to enjoy some culture, see art, go to gigs, etc.

I've stopped being bitter about the economy. It was my own fault for pursuing something unpractical. But I don't regret it. I made some adjusments. I quit smoking and drinking years ago, and I buy paints etc. with the money saved. I've had my art displayed in 4 different countries, I've had 2 pieces of my writing published in literary mags the last couple years (doesnt sound like much but it's hard to get selected even for small publications). I don't make any money off my creative endeavours, any I do get goes back which is rare into the work, but I have gotten the stuff out there and a few people enjoyed them. That's good enough for me.

I did a stint in a medical device factory for a year as a contractor. They forced us onto 12 hr shifts, and then let us go when it suited them. You had to stick the same pieces of plastic together over and over. I hated it, and despite the good pay my health was ruined by the crazy shifts, going to bed at 9 am, try and sleep during the daytime and go back in for 8 pm

For some, to get made permanent in this job would have been a dream come true. Me, I saw the people who had been at this craic for donkeys years and they seemed completely institutionalized, their life revolved around this place, the gossip, the company, and they all had this grey, shapeless, lifeless look to them.

I'd honestly rather not end up like that, even if that means not having a flash car or big house.
And for myself, I kind of have to do creative stuff because I'm not good at anything else, I can't hack boring work that doesnt engage me, I can't kiss up to managers who are almost always dullards or bullies, I don't want to wear a dumb uniform, have my activities timed, and be expected to bend over backwards for some company that doesnt care a jot about me at the end of the day. Most of all, if I don't engage with my creative pursuits I just feel bad, depressed, dissatisfied. I think a lot of creative people are like that.

And that's why some people study these non practical things OP.

Always Tired · 04-02-2020 12:58am

I know my last post was long enough but I just want to add that people who think like the OP annoy me a little because they are so narrow minded they can't understand it, and don't even try.

I mean, I can understand easily why one would choose to be an engineer or IT guy, etc. It offers money, which equals security. If I could do that, why wouldn't I? It would be much easier than to try and struggle as an artist. (Not saying engineering or IT is easy, just easier to make money at for people who are inclined that way) It would certainly, as OP suggests, be preferable to not being able to make money off the only things I am good at, and at the same time unable to deal with the torturous conditions inflicted upon front line workers in unskilled jobs like retail, call centres, hotels/restaurants (all of which I have done for at least 2 years each btw.)

This isn't the first time boards has had a thread like this, with people scoffing about creative people being entitled, wasters, etc. But do you lot not see how you could also be scoffed at for your choices? Because clearly the money and security provided to you by your practical degree or job hasn't made you happy. It hasn't softened your heart. Some of you dont even appear grateful for what you have, spending a large amount of time begrudging people with far less than you for whatever they have, gnashing your teeth about people on the dole stealing your tax and silly shìte like that.

Maybe instead of asking why the artists didn't study a 'jobby' degree, ask yourself why you don't do something creative. It might make you less vindictive and petty!

The most valuable resource we have is our time. So if someone wants to use it to be creative instead of doing something they arent suited to, it makes perfect sense to me. And likewise, if someone wants to work for some big company doing dull and thankless tasks and playing office politics because it allows for them to have a lot of money, I can see the appeal to that too. It certainly feels great to have lots of money. It solves a lot of problems, allows you to fill a lot of desires. I just know it's not for me.

It would be nice if there were more opportunities for artists outside of the cities. Especially considering the cities are not really affordable to artists now. But unfortunately we need less of the attitude displayed in the OP for that to happen.

diusmr8a504cvk · 04-02-2020 1:05am

I think people should do what makes them happy.

Raconteuse · 04-02-2020 1:14am

I could never have done business studies or computer science. But my tendencies are a combination of the creative with the practical - I need structure. So I did an arts degree followed by a practical postgrad (yet still plenty of room for creativity and expression). Never been out of work apart from a stint freelancing (which did not suit me).

CrankyHaus · 04-02-2020 1:34am

colm_mcm wrote: »

Basically a plug for his play.

At this stage most of the Irish Times is a plug for something, so best of luck to him.

Fccwontletmebe · 04-02-2020 1:48am

Always Tired wrote: »

I know my last post was long enough but I just want to add that people who think like the OP annoy me a little because they are so narrow minded they can't understand it, and don't even try.

I mean, I can understand easily why one would choose to be an engineer or IT guy, etc. It offers money, which equals security. If I could do that, why wouldn't I? It would be much easier than to try and struggle as an artist. (Not saying engineering or IT is easy, just easier to make money at for people who are inclined that way) It would certainly, as OP suggests, be preferable to not being able to make money off the only things I am good at, and at the same time unable to deal with the torturous conditions inflicted upon front line workers in unskilled jobs like retail, call centres, hotels/restaurants (all of which I have done for at least 2 years each btw.)

This isn't the first time boards has had a thread like this, with people scoffing about creative people being entitled, wasters, etc. But do you lot not see how you could also be scoffed at for your choices? Because clearly the money and security provided to you by your practical degree or job hasn't made you happy. It hasn't softened your heart. Some of you dont even appear grateful for what you have, spending a large amount of time begrudging people with far less than you for whatever they have, gnashing your teeth about people on the dole stealing your tax and silly shìte like that.

Maybe instead of asking why the artists didn't study a 'jobby' degree, ask yourself why you don't do something creative. It might make you less vindictive and petty!

The most valuable resource we have is our time. So if someone wants to use it to be creative instead of doing something they arent suited to, it makes perfect sense to me. And likewise, if someone wants to work for some big company doing dull and thankless tasks and playing office politics because it allows for them to have a lot of money, I can see the appeal to that too. It certainly feels great to have lots of money. It solves a lot of problems, allows you to fill a lot of desires. I just know it's not for me.

It would be nice if there were more opportunities for artists outside of the cities. Especially considering the cities are not really affordable to artists now. But unfortunately we need less of the attitude displayed in the OP for that to happen.

Get a car and commute to work. It’s not that difficult.

Ah sure we should all go on the dole now should we?

This is exactly the attitude I hate, happy to be on the dole draining the system but poor me doesn’t like working. It’s a cop out.

Sorry OP But been on the dole refusing to work seriously annoys me.

A burden on the state and just seems like your ultra lazy.

If someone is physically able to work they should be working.

Church on Tuesday · 04-02-2020 2:30am

Better Than Christ wrote: »

Emigrating in search of work is 'entitlement culture' now, is it?

Fucking hell, I've seen some stupid threads on here...

You will see many, many more.

04-02-2020 2:46am

Julio Wailing Page wrote: »

I think people should do what makes them happy.

I agree. Just as soon as they cop on to thenselves, grow the feck up and get a job to pay their way. And no bitching from them in the meantime. Soft as a baked bean sheite. Whiney people who can’t stick a bit of real work because they’re not conditioned to pull their own weight in life. A good oul’ war and conscription, for example, would help put us back on track. A bit of a cull would be helpful at this stage because these drips do nothing to promote a resilient gene pool.

An Ri rua · 04-02-2020 3:00am

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Quite. An arts degree was never intended to be monetised. It is study for study's sake. And all the better for it. But really only for gentlemen of independent means, or for a few who are needed to become the tutors, or the masters in a public school, to boys of that class. The problem arises when people enrole in them who will later have to find gainful employ, rather than taking a grand tour to enhance their learning and then taking up their position in society. The former are really more suited to the manual trades, which provide ample work opportunity to that class.

I must say that there's a whiff of the vulgar about this. Steady on. No need to monetise the thing chap.

quokula · 04-02-2020 3:05am

Julio Wailing Page wrote: »

I think people should do what makes them happy.

While it’s a nice sentiment, in order to be happy people also need things like food, a roof over their head, transport, medicine when their sick etc etc

If everyone just did what made them happy for a career then we’d have none of those things and society would collapse. There’s a reason why more useful jobs generally pay better.

And I’m aware that there are many contributions to society by talented writers and artists, but I’m not sure how many of those coming out of arts degrees fall into that category.

04-02-2020 3:32am

Always Tired wrote: »

I know my last post was long enough but I just want to add that people who think like the OP annoy me a little because they are so narrow minded they can't understand it, and don't even try.

I mean, I can understand easily why one would choose to be an engineer or IT guy, etc. It offers money, which equals security. If I could do that, why wouldn't I? It would be much easier than to try and struggle as an artist. (Not saying engineering or IT is easy, just easier to make money at for people who are inclined that way) It would certainly, as OP suggests, be preferable to not being able to make money off the only things I am good at, and at the same time unable to deal with the torturous conditions inflicted upon front line workers in unskilled jobs like retail, call centres, hotels/restaurants (all of which I have done for at least 2 years each btw.)

This isn't the first time boards has had a thread like this, with people scoffing about creative people being entitled, wasters, etc. But do you lot not see how you could also be scoffed at for your choices? Because clearly the money and security provided to you by your practical degree or job hasn't made you happy. It hasn't softened your heart. Some of you dont even appear grateful for what you have, spending a large amount of time begrudging people with far less than you for whatever they have, gnashing your teeth about people on the dole stealing your tax and silly shìte like that.

Maybe instead of asking why the artists didn't study a 'jobby' degree, ask yourself why you don't do something creative. It might make you less vindictive and petty!

The most valuable resource we have is our time. So if someone wants to use it to be creative instead of doing something they arent suited to, it makes perfect sense to me. And likewise, if someone wants to work for some big company doing dull and thankless tasks and playing office politics because it allows for them to have a lot of money, I can see the appeal to that too. It certainly feels great to have lots of money. It solves a lot of problems, allows you to fill a lot of desires. I just know it's not for me.

It would be nice if there were more opportunities for artists outside of the cities. Especially considering the cities are not really affordable to artists now. But unfortunately we need less of the attitude displayed in the OP for that to happen.

high five on the sneering about the sneering

oh by the way everyone else is paying for you to be above working, but its ok im sure they all just decided that work was "for them"

con___manx1 · 04-02-2020 4:03am

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Careful now, there’s a few on here who think the “Arts” degree is the height of enlightenment and not the, giant, waste of time it actually is.

I know a few people who became teachers after doing an arts degree. I hope you have been enlightened.

padd b1975 · 04-02-2020 6:07am

893bet wrote: »

Playwright John O’Donovan’s new play Flights is on at the Project Arts Centre in Dublin until February 8th, and has its London premiere on February 11th to 29th at Omnibus Theatre.

He done ok. It’s a global economy. He was never gonna stay in Clare.

He has indeed.

He needs to embrace the bohemian lifestyle or develop something resembling a work ethic because he's never really going to make it as a regular blue collar worker with those qualifications.

padd b1975 · 04-02-2020 6:09am

con___manx1 wrote: »

I know a few people who became teachers after doing an arts degree.

Same here, it used to be called the H. Dip. back in my day, God knows what it's called now.

Yurt2 · 04-02-2020 6:28am

The arts (as an industry) is actually a big money-spinner. It also lacks security, and the people that make it are often tough as a boot and more resiliant than many here sneering at them from their damp cubicle fantasizing about a better looking wife, a nicer house and drinking themselves to death every weekend trying to forget the misery of it all.

And he's correct on many things, returning to Ireland from abroad is a big fat joke. I'll never forget trying to get quoted for car insurance and being absoultely rode for rent in inferior housing stock coming back from a major world city where the price of a flat was cheaper. Remember folks, the harder you work, the better it will all get (snigger) - it's all how it's supposed to be. Flats are meant to be that expensive, healthcare is meant to be dysfunctional, buying a house was always this way, infrastructure is always sh*te. The problems is you never learned to code you big waster.

Ireland hates people that emigrate. If they're successful, they're smug; if they don't make it they're bums and wasters.
Ireland also hates people that stay. This is Ireland, evreybody hates evreybody else. And every Irishman with these sentiments floating around their brain is always the most cleverest most hardest working boy that ever did live.

Wanderer78 · 04-02-2020 6:59am

Fccwontletmebe wrote:

Things like this really irritate me. Sense of entitlement culture.

Austerity is well known to cause catastrophic social issues, it can easily be classed as an economically dump idea, and our current situation with issues such as housing and health care are a prime example of its fcuk ups.

Society requires many different types of trained and non trained individuals to function, including individuals who are seen to be non productive, not all humans are left brainers

Yurt2 · 04-02-2020 7:19am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Austerity is well known to cause catastrophic social issues, it can easily be classed as an economically dump idea, and our current situation with issues such as housing and health care are a prime example of its fcuk ups.

Society requires many different types of trained and non trained individuals to function, including individuals who are seen to be non productive, not all humans are left brainers

That's commie talk you big waster. Why should I pay my mortgage for my overpirced house when this guy gets to live in a small apartment in London writing plays?? LOOK AT HIS HAT. I'm voting Fine Gael again.

Wanderer78 · 04-02-2020 7:21am

Yurt! wrote:

That's commie talk you big waster.

Hahaha thanks

Now where's my free stuff!

Yurt2 · 04-02-2020 7:23am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Hahaha thanks

Now where's my free stuff!

Shave your sideburns and get a job deleting snuff pron and be-headings from Facebook. You'll live in a bedsit in Harolds Cross with a load of Nepalese lads and you'll like it.

MY TAXES

Wanderer78 · 04-02-2020 7:24am

Yurt! wrote:

Shave your sideburns and get a job deleting snuff pron and be-headings from Facebook. You'll live in a bedsit in Harolds Cross with a load of Nepalese lads and you'll like it.

Heaven

Fccwontletmebe · 04-02-2020 7:43am

Cut welfare to food stamps and a 50 euro penny's voucher every year.

Wanderer78 · 04-02-2020 8:32am

Fccwontletmebe wrote: »

Cut welfare to food stamps and a 50 euro penny's voucher every year.

you re too generous, give them knives, guns, and maybe some drugs, hopefully they ll kill each other, and we ll be entertained by it all

Raconteuse · 04-02-2020 9:56am

Fccwontletmebe wrote: »

Cut welfare to food stamps and a 50 euro penny's voucher every year.

If you were laid off, I doubt you'd be content with the above while looking for a new job.

mariaalice · 04-02-2020 10:08am

The man can study anything he likes the and arts is as valid a study option as any other, however, to expect to work in publishing and live in rural Clare is a little silly without a huge amount of effort. I don't know where he went to college UL maybe but he should have been involved in the arts scene making contacts, volunteering in some art centers and theaters figuring out how to get some grants and keep grinding away at it if he wanted to stay in Clare.

It also to do with the living abroad section of the Irish times there are an awful lot of articles like his I have read much worse ones.

mariaalice · 04-02-2020 10:12am

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/how-the-civil-service-became-a-hotbed-of-great-irish-writing-1.3374347

That is an interesting article, how people did the boring stuff and worked as a civil servants while pursuing the arts and some became very well known.

mariaalice · 04-02-2020 10:47am

To anyone who say the arts are not worth studying this is a peom I love by one of the civil servant poets not well know.

Warning its about the death of a mother.

Years After

And yet we managed fine.

We missed your baking for a time.
And yet we were not better off
without cream-hearted sponges cakes,
flaky, rhubarb-oozing pies.

Linoleum-tiled rooms could no longer
presume on your thoroughgoing scrub;
and yet me made up for our neglect,
laid hardwood timber floors.

Windows shimmered less often.
And yet we got around to
elbow-greasing them eventually.
Your daily sheet-and-blanket

rituals of bed making were more
than we could hope to emulate
And yet the duvets we bought
brought us gradually to sleep,

Declan and Eithne (eleven
and nine respectively at the time)
had to survive without your packed
banana sandwiches, wooden spoon

deterrent, hugs, multivitamins.
And yet they both grew strong;
you have unmet grandchildren
in-laws you never knew.

Yes, we managed fine, made
breakfasts and made love,
took on jobs and mortgages,
set ourselves up for life.

And yet. And yet. And yet.

.

Dennis O’Driscoll (1954–2012) was born in Thurles, Co. Tipperary

lozenges · 04-02-2020 10:56am

Clareman wrote: »

2009 wasn't a great year anywhere, in the mid-west Dell was after announcing that it was closing the factory BUT there was loads of minimum wage jobs available. My guess is that John thought a minimum wage in Clare was below him because he had a Masters but that was ok in London.Probably didn't help that he was straight out of college with little experience.

He literally said in the article that he would have been happy to take a job in a shop. So presumably minimum wage. Don't get the impression he thought anything was 'beneath him'

04-02-2020 10:58am

lozenges wrote: »

He literally said in the article that he would have been happy to take a job in a shop. So presumably minimum wage. Don't get the impression he thought anything was 'beneath him'

part of the point of the thread is pointing out that you dont just rock up and get a job, even a crap one, in a recession

kids, get a real degree

lozenges · 04-02-2020 11:10am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

part of the point of the thread is pointing out that you dont just rock up and get a job, even a crap one, in a recession

kids, get a real degree

I did an extremely practical degree with essentially guaranteed employment after. I still think the world would be a much poorer place if it was filled with people who did 'real degrees'. Accountants and management graduates everywhere and noone with any appreciation of classics, literature, history, languages? No thanks..

04-02-2020 11:11am

lozenges wrote: »

I did an extremely practical degree with essentially guaranteed employment after. I still think the world would be a much poorer place if it was filled with people who did 'real degrees'. Accountants and management graduates everywhere and noone with any appreciation of classics, literature, history, languages? No thanks..

......what a lamentable and narrow view you take of people who can separate what they do for a living from what they can appreciate besides.

KiKi III · 04-02-2020 11:18am

What degrees do you think the writers of most of your favourite TV shows, films and books did?

El_Duderino 09 · 04-02-2020 11:21am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

each and every IT article about the problems of generation emigration has a bang of whiney entitlement tbh

who cares, lads. who cares.

I find it interesting to see how attitudes have changed. You watch reeling in the years and nobody slags off the ones emigrating. They lamented they rural towns gutted of young people. Now you see people take the p1ss out of emigrants and laugh at their sense of entitlement.

FWIW, the bloke in the article has a very modest life from what I can tell. He’s glad his bed sit isn’t damp or mouldy, works a part time paid job plus unpaid internships but is still branded “entitled”. Old people with houses and pensions and stable jobs for life with steady wage growth over the years, would Sh1t a brick if they had to live like a modern young person. Zero hour contracts wages not even matching inflation for lower paid, no job security, paying such high rent (to older people to top up their earnings) no pension to look forward to and no reasonable prospect of buying a home or starting a family.

Genuinely interesting to see how the young today are the public punching bag for everyone to take out their frustration on. It’s no wonder the young people put up with it. It’s all they’ve ever known.

tritium · 04-02-2020 11:48am

In general degrees in literature are not something that industry actively seeks- if someone gets a career with one it tends to be a general rather than technical role, understandably so since it lacks the skills needed for certain positions. That’s fine but anyone doing those qualifications should be aware of this. It’s value for getting on a career ladder is quite niche: if you're looking to work in retail, experience matters more, if you’re looking to work in something very technical you lack the skills. That’s not to say it’s worthless but it’s value isn’t in terms of looking to become a CEO. Generally if you want to be a playwright you work for yourself and hope your work is good enough to be noticed. It was the path trodden by Beckett and Joyce so nothing new there

mariaalice · 04-02-2020 11:55am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I find it interesting to see how attitudes have changed. You watch reeling in the years and nobody slags off the ones emigrating. They lamented they rural towns gutted of young people. Now you see people take the p1ss out of emigrants and laugh at their sense of entitlement.

FWIW, the bloke in the article has a very modest life from what I can tell. He’s glad his verdict isn’t damp or mouldy but is still branded “entitled”. Old people with houses and pensions and stable jobs for life with gratanter wage growth over the years, would Sh1t a brick if they had to live like a modern young person. Zero hour contracts wages not even matching inflation for lower paid, no job security, paying such high rent (to older people to top up their earnings) no reasonable prospect of buying a home or starting a family.

Genuinely interesting to see how the young today are the public punching bag for everyone to take out their frustration on. It’s no wonder the young people put up with it. It’s all they’ve ever known.

Disagree with you mostly but there is a bit of dumbing down on the young going on.

Its to do with lack of reticence and the slight woe is my tone of some of the articles versus the just getting on with it life of the older generation.

Unemployment was 20% in the 1980s and pla lived in damp dangerous accommodation.

marieholmfan · 04-02-2020 11:56am

Think he's doing alright. Poor as a churchmouse but writing plays and having one produced. Obviously no interest in Dublin so he went to London.

He's doing OK.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I find it interesting to see how attitudes have changed. You watch reeling in the years and nobody slags off the ones emigrating. They lamented they rural towns gutted of young people. Now you see people take the p1ss out of emigrants and laugh at their sense of entitlement.

FWIW, the bloke in the article has a very modest life from what I can tell. He’s glad his bed sit isn’t damp or mouldy, works a part time paid job plus unpaid internships but is still branded “entitled”. Old people with houses and pensions and stable jobs for life with steady wage growth over the years, would Sh1t a brick if they had to live like a modern young person. Zero hour contracts wages not even matching inflation for lower paid, no job security, paying such high rent (to older people to top up their earnings) no pension to look forward to and no reasonable prospect of buying a home or starting a family.

Genuinely interesting to see how the young today are the public punching bag for everyone to take out their frustration on. It’s no wonder the young people put up with it. It’s all they’ve ever known.

El_Duderino 09 · 04-02-2020 12:10pm

mariaalice wrote: »

Disagree with you mostly but there is a bit of dumbing down on the young going on.

Its to do with lack of reticence and the slight woe is my tone of some of the articles versus the just getting on with it life of the older generation.

Unemployment was 20% in the 1980s and pla lived in damp dangerous accommodation.

What specifically do you disagree with?

The bloke IS ‘getting on with it’. He’s working a paid job part time ABD working jobs for free to get experience. Did many of the ones in the 80s expect to work for free when they emigrated? Would the 80s construction workers ever offer work a hod carrier for 6 months for free? But this bloke is entitled.

He is grateful for his modest life without damp or mould in his bed sit, but still he’s entitled. Entitled to what? What does he think he’s entitled to? He doesn't think he’s entitled to be paid for his work, he doesn’t think he’s entitled to a job at all. He doesn’t think he’s entitled to a lavish lifestyle. So what do you think he’s claiming entitlement to?

The only entitlement I see is when a young person expresses their concerns, an entitlement to slag them off and put them down.

So, to what does the bloke imply he’s entitled?

El_Duderino 09 · 04-02-2020 12:14pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

Think he's doing alright. Poor as a churchmouse but writing plays and having one produced. Obviously no interest in Dublin so he went to London.

He's doing OK.

He doesn’t say any different. He seems hard working and determined and very grateful for how things are going. That’s something to be ridiculed according to lots of posters.

mariaalice · 04-02-2020 12:14pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

What specifically do you disagree with?

The bloke IS ‘getting on with it’. He’s working a paid job part time ABD working jobs for free to get experience. Did many of the ones in the 80s expect to work for free when they emigrated? Would the 80s construction workers ever offer work a hod carrier for 6 months for free? But this bloke is entitled.

He is grateful for his modest life without damp or mould in his bed sit, but still he’s entitled. Entitled to what? What does he think he’s entitled to? He doesn't think he’s entitled to be paid for his work, he doesn’t think he’s entitled to a job at all. He doesn’t think he’s entitled to a lavish lifestyle. So what do you think he’s claiming entitlement to?

The only entitlement I see is when a young person expresses their concerns, an entitlement to slag them off and put them down.

So, to what does the bloke imply he’s entitled?

He is not entitled he is bit delusional wanting a career in publishing and the arts while living in rural Clare and as I said its not the worst article of its kind.

04-02-2020 12:16pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I find it interesting to see how attitudes have changed. You watch reeling in the years and nobody slags off the ones emigrating. They lamented they rural towns gutted of young people. Now you see people take the p1ss out of emigrants and laugh at their sense of entitlement.

FWIW, the bloke in the article has a very modest life from what I can tell. He’s glad his bed sit isn’t damp or mouldy, works a part time paid job plus unpaid internships but is still branded “entitled”. Old people with houses and pensions and stable jobs for life with steady wage growth over the years, would Sh1t a brick if they had to live like a modern young person. Zero hour contracts wages not even matching inflation for lower paid, no job security, paying such high rent (to older people to top up their earnings) no pension to look forward to and no reasonable prospect of buying a home or starting a family.

Genuinely interesting to see how the young today are the public punching bag for everyone to take out their frustration on. It’s no wonder the young people put up with it. It’s all they’ve ever known.

couple things

is yerman "young"? dont see his age

the reasons for everyone leaving in the 80s aint the reasons now. and if you had to leave to be a skivvy from free third-level ireland in 2009 then thats on you. and im not sure that the irish times were running such frequent pieces from domhnhaihils and saoaoaoairseaias in 1984 lamenting the ****hole they left and how it hasnt cuddled them home upon their return

people have not had it easy nor soft in ireland while the people who got their choice of a free degree (or their choice of no degree) departed for sunnier, better climes.

not mention you come home now for a few bob on the plane, which wasnt the case back then.

so no, its really no comparison between exporting our young with nothing to give them but the option to stay away for years and work manual jobs, and the travails of a fella who wants to be a playwright but nobody in london or clare has seen his genius yet.

facehugger99 · 04-02-2020 12:17pm

Your Face wrote: »

An Arts Degree is still a degree.

Don't be preposterous.

El_Duderino 09 · 04-02-2020 12:23pm

mariaalice wrote: »

He is not entitled he is bit delusional wanting a career in publishing and the arts while living in rural Clare and as I said its not the worst article of its kind.

So not entitled then? The “entitled” argument fell apart at the very first enquiry. Kudos for admitting it.

Now on to the second point he talks in the article about the expectation to move away from rural Ireland to go to uni in the first place. He never expected to work in Clare with his degree. It’s an expectation people from rural Ireland are born with.

So, what exactly has this bloke done wrong? You seem pretty sure he’s wrong whether he’s “entitled” or “delusional” for wanting something he explicitly says he didn’t expect.

So can you tell me what this fella has done that’s so wrong? Lots of posters seem in complete agreement that he’s wrong and entitled or delusional but definitely to be ridiculed. So it should be easy to point out exactly what he’s done wrong.

04-02-2020 12:25pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So it should be easy to point out exactly what he’s done wrong.

picked a foolish degree and career to be going looking for any sympathy when the irish times told him "wanna be this months poster boy for how tough life is when your work is your hobby?"

jmayo · 04-02-2020 12:27pm

Kitty6277 wrote: »

Because not everyone has an interest/ability to do well in the business/IT/engineering courses

Very true and it is why the calibre of some of our graduates is going down.
Too many people are going to college for the sake of it and getting practically useless degrees.
BTW not all useless degrees are in arts.
And it is another reason why finding apprentices is getting harder and harder.

Some arts degrees and masters prove more valuable than others in the real world of employment.
For instance if you get a BA in Industrial Design, Psychology, Digital Media, Mathematics, some foreign language or other you can prove to be pretty employable to some companies and organisations.

But banie01 sums this chap up pretty well.

banie01 wrote: »

An arts degree and a master's in Literature!
Well done...

The foresight to realise that such esoteric qualifications are of fúck all use in gaining somewhat local employment in a rural part of Co Clare...

Well that doesn't say much for an arts degree is shaping one for actual adulthood!

It would like some guy in Belmullet complaining there were no jobs for him in Mayo even though he had a degree in "Drama, Theatre, and Performance Studies".

It is frankly moronic and a sad indictment of how far the Irish Times has fallen when they give this type of shyte column inches.

Millicently · 04-02-2020 12:27pm

Arghus wrote: »

The guy did change his situation. He moved to London and took unpaid internship work in the industry he wanted to work in - and now he's a playwright. He's not saying his life is shyte.

Honestly, do people actually read the articles they give out about?

Also, there's no way he wrote the title or the sub heading for the article. That's the work of a sub editor somewhere in The Irish Times.

Probably gets more on the Dole in Britain than he does from being a ''playwright''.

Millicently · 04-02-2020 12:28pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So not entitled then? The “entitled” argument fell apart at the very first enquiry. Kudos for admitting it.

Now on to the second point he talks in the article about the expectation to move away from rural Ireland tho to uni in the first place. He never expected to work in Clare with his degree.

So, what exactly has this bloke done wrong? You seem pretty sure he’s wrong whether he’s “entitled” or “delusional” for wanting something he explicitly says he didn’t expect.

So can you tell me what this fella has done that’s so wrong? Lots of posters seem in complete agreement that he’s wrong and entitled or delusional but definitely to be ridiculed. So it should be easy to point out exactly what he’s done wrong.

Well, for a start he's a nobody from the arse end of rural Clare that nobody has ever heard of yet he thinks his story merits an article in the Irish Times.

El_Duderino 09 · 04-02-2020 12:38pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

couple things

is yerman "young"? dont see his age

the reasons for everyone leaving in the 80s aint the reasons now. and if you had to leave to be a skivvy from free third-level ireland in 2009 then thats on you. and im not sure that the irish times were running such frequent pieces from domhnhaihils and saoaoaoairseaias in 1984 lamenting the ****hole they left and how it hasnt cuddled them home upon their return

people have not had it easy nor soft in ireland while the people who got their choice of a free degree (or their choice of no degree) departed for sunnier, better climes.

not mention you come home now for a few bob on the plane, which wasnt the case back then.

so no, its really no comparison between exporting our young with nothing to give them but the option to stay away for years and work manual jobs, and the travails of a fella who wants to be a playwright but nobody in london or clare has seen his genius yet.

He says he was 24 in about 2009 so probably probably now 34. Been grafting for 10 years in London and living modestly, no money, no family, no prospect of buying a home and very grateful for his lot - but still “entitled” and worthy of ridicule,?according to some.

The reasons for leaving in the 80s are exactly the same as the reasons in 2009. Like, precisely the same. No jobs, no prospects. But the people who left on the 80s are regarded as heroes who grasped for their living, the ones who emigrated mire recently are “entitled”, “delusional” and worthy of ridicule.

I wonder whether people in the 80s also slagged off the emigrants or if people today are just more mean spirited.

partyguinness · 04-02-2020 12:43pm

I have an issue with regarding anyone with a degree as "qualified".

What exactly are you "qualified" in? There are virtually no degrees that "qualify" a graduate for anything least of all a BA. It is further education and what you do with it afterwards is up to you.

Millicently · 04-02-2020 12:43pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

He says he was 24 in about 2009 so probably probably now 34. Been grafting for 10 years in London and living modestly, no money, no family, no prospect of buying a home and very grateful for his lot - but still “entitled” and worthy of ridicule,?according to some.

The reasons for leaving in the 80s are exactly the same as the reasons in 2009. Like, precisely the same. No jobs, no prospects. But the people who left on the 80s are regarded as heroes who grasped for their living, the ones who emigrated mire recently are “entitled”, “delusional” and worthy of ridicule.

I wonder whether people in the 80s also slagged off the emigrants or if people today are just more mean spirited.

What do you care? The emigration situation in the 80's was very different as was Ireland as a whole. Emigrants in the 80's just sucked it up and left, most people could only dream of going to University. This is less about this guy than about the IT publishing these bs articles on some Irish emigrant living abroad that nobody could care less about and some foreign immigrant bleating on about being hard done by in their New to The Parish articles. Lazy slacker journalism aimed at PC Millennials with an attitude of entitlement who are easily offended on behalf of everyone.

04-02-2020 1:00pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

He says he was 24 in about 2009 so probably probably now 34. Been grafting for 10 years in London and living modestly, no money, no family, no prospect of buying a home and very grateful for his lot - but still “entitled” and worthy of ridicule,?according to some.

The reasons for leaving in the 80s are exactly the same as the reasons in 2009. Like, precisely the same. No jobs, no prospects. But the people who left on the 80s are regarded as heroes who grasped for their living, the ones who emigrated mire recently are “entitled”, “delusional” and worthy of ridicule.

I wonder whether people in the 80s also slagged off the emigrants or if people today are just more mean spirited.

yeah you just avoided all of the points there didnt you?

also, the answer to " is he young" is "no, he's 34". that doesnt take a paragraph, but when it does you know you're reaching

How about get a degree where there are jobs instead of crying about it.

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