How about get a degree where there are jobs instead of crying about it.

Fccwontletmebe

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/abroad/austerity-forced-me-out-of-ireland-now-i-don-t-know-how-to-return-1.4157890?fbclid=IwAR2qVpxxaaO54E-O2vWFjkhfgRKTRO8Q90BQ_GtLgDVmQTqlgzCGUZuaq7s

Things like this really irritate me. Sense of entitlement culture.

Kitty6277

Because not everyone has an interest/ability to do well in the business/IT/engineering courses

Better Than Christ

Emigrating in search of work is 'entitlement culture' now, is it?

Fucking hell, I've seen some stupid threads on here...

Junkyard Tom

Because the world doesn't work like they way it does in your head - people usually learn this as a child.

banie01

An arts degree and a master's in Literature!
Well done...

The foresight to realise that such esoteric qualifications are of fúck all use in gaining somewhat local employment in a rural part of Co Clare...

Well that doesn't say much for an arts degree is shaping one for actual adulthood!

thenightman

Fccwontletmebe wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/abroad/austerity-forced-me-out-of-ireland-now-i-don-t-know-how-to-return-1.4157890?fbclid=IwAR2qVpxxaaO54E-O2vWFjkhfgRKTRO8Q90BQ_GtLgDVmQTqlgzCGUZuaq7s

Things like this really irritate me. Sense of entitlement culture.

Why get a degree dictated by the market that the market could decide is worthless whenever it suits them. This lad sounds happy enough to have followed his passion and seems to have made the right decision for himself.

Why are you so angry? touched a nerve?

Arts degree and masters in literature. There’s his mistake right there, it’s nobody else’s fault.

Better Than Christ

The arts degree: Hated by idiots who know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Iscreamkone

A friend of mine has a cleaner who does 3 hours a week for her. She’s in her 60s, is from Lithuania and has little spoken English. She works hard to make a living. She doesn’t complain if the conditions are hard or very casual. She makes enough money to get by. She doesn’t ask for money & stuff from the government like a lot of Irish do. If she gets paid cash in hand - good luck to her.

Fccwontletmebe

All you should be taught in an Arts degree is the below in multiple languages without Maths/Science/ IT/teaching modules is.

"Would you like fries with that"

Raconteuse

Can see both arguments. If you love literature and really want to study it, go for it. But if it's also to get a job out of it, this may not happen. It's a practical course and work experience that will get you the job.

Imo, the safest strategy if you want to both study what you love and get a job after college is to do your undergraduate in what you love, and postgrad in something more practical.

each and every IT article about the problems of generation emigration has a bang of whiney entitlement tbh

who cares, lads. who cares.

Your Face

An Arts Degree is still a degree. Regardless of ones opinions on the subjects - a degree qualified applicant is always welcome.
Also, plenty of steady state jobs were attained by those with Arts degrees.

Oranage2

I see the guy added in mental health, depression and homelessness, it seems like everyone in Ireland now suffers with at least one of these things. I'm surprised he didn't throw in allergic to gluten.



Ps. I know mental health, depression and homelessness are real and they're serious problems but it seems like everyone now has self diagnosed depression or homeless because they live at home.

EmmetSpiceland

banie01 wrote: »

An arts degree and a master's in Literature!
Well done...

The foresight to realise that such esoteric qualifications are of fúck all use in gaining somewhat local employment in a rural part of Co Clare...

Well that doesn't say much for an arts degree is shaping one for actual adulthood!

Careful now, there’s a few on here who think the “Arts” degree is the height of enlightenment and not the, giant, waste of time it actually is.

ZV Yoda

Better Than Christ wrote: »

Emigrating in search of work is 'entitlement culture' now, is it?

Fucking hell, I've seen some stupid threads on here...

He apparently felt “entitled” to a job that makes use of his masters in literature. As if there’s much use for that in a small town in rural Ireland.

Jesus wept! Did he never think of investigating potential job prospects during the 5-6 years completing his masters?

By his own admission, he went to London & worked in a shop & lived in a ****ty flat so he could save enough to take up an unpaid internship. I applaud his attitude & graft. But London was no picnic for him either, so he needs to lose the rose tinted glasses.

pixelburp

Astonishes me that it needs saying that "not everyone is the same", and ""not everyone is equipped to learn, excel, or even enjoy subjects that are ostensibly good for the market". In fact flooding the market with substandard ladder chasers achieves nothing, and only adds to the frustration and struggle to those not good or interested enough to attain a high-level. So you just end up with just as many unemployed, with an industry flooded with too many graduates.

When I entered IT in college, the admin extended capacity to 300, to account for the "learn computers and earn millions!" nonsense floating around in the early 2000s. By year 4 there were approx 125 left. Many who did, did so because jumping into a subject over mercenary motives doesn't work out too well when you don't have the head for it. I hope those who left found their niche. Nothing wrong with an arts degree if the right avenues are pursued. Some industries are narrower than others and just require more teasing out. Belligerent hostility gives nothing. I know plenty of arts degree grads who found all sorts of varying career paths

biko

In Clare he couldn't get a job in a shop.
In London he got a job in a shop.
All is well.

_ZeeK_

Fccwontletmebe wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/abroad/austerity-forced-me-out-of-ireland-now-i-don-t-know-how-to-return-1.4157890?fbclid=IwAR2qVpxxaaO54E-O2vWFjkhfgRKTRO8Q90BQ_GtLgDVmQTqlgzCGUZuaq7s

Things like this really irritate me. Sense of entitlement culture.

Take a chill pill, buddy. Nobody's claiming they're entitled to anything here.

On the topic of degrees - it would be a sad world if it was full only of software engineers and accountants.

Culture has an important place in society. Indulge in a little bit, maybe you wouldn't be so angry.

shesty

It was 2009.
Nobody could get a job anywhere.
Including engineers.
I see he is a playwright now, and that is not exactly the easiest of paths regardless of the economy.

pjohnson

[Deleted User] wrote: »

each and every IT article about the problems of generation emigration has a bang of whiney entitlement tbh

who cares, lads. who cares.

Its not much different to the auld grumps making threads crying about every IT article.

banie01

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Careful now, there’s a few on here who think the “Arts” degree is the height of enlightenment and not the, giant, waste of time it actually is.

An arts degree does afford one a great foundation for further learning.
It's a broad based melange that all too many seem to waste.

Some of the best colleagues I've worked with entered employment with Arts degrees.

Doing an arts degree and following it up with a master's in Literature and expecting your hobby to lead to gainful employment is a little bit optimistic.
Particularly if that employment is expected to be local.

Plenty he could do via remote working, such as editing or proofing.
Offering tutorials or study support are just a few that spring to mind.
Moving to find work appropriate to ones qualifications is part and parcel of life.
If staying local mattered, he should have planned his educational choices better.

Coincidentally, I am currently a 1st student back at Uni (Not doing Arts ) I do however share a couple of modules with a large cohort of "Arts" students.

Kids who have no actual direction in life, who would be far better served by decent guidance prior to the CAO than by been thrown into a pick and mix world of modules that most seek easy A's or handiest post hangover tutorials.

Plenty of bright, smart and potentially brilliant kids being mediocre and homogeneous by choice.

Always Tired

It's a pity Van Gogh didn't learn to code he'd have added so much more to the world than he did.

And all those films and TV shows you watch, the people who wrote them, directed them, acted in them, designed the sets and costumes, really why did they waste their time?

An Ri rua

Fccwontletmebe wrote: »

All you should be taught in an Arts degree is the below in multiple languages without Maths/Science/ IT/teaching modules is.

"Would you like fries with that"

I think you might benefit from a few days' free education by sitting in on Arts lectures. It might give you an inkling of what syntax means with regards to sentence structure. God only knows what you're actually trying to express....

perrito caliente

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Careful now, there’s a few on here who think the “Arts” degree is the height of enlightenment and not the, giant, waste of time it actually is.

Nothing finer than an education in liberal arts Emmet. Dare I say it's rare for a man with a mind as bright as yours to have graduated more or less unscathed from that realm of dullards and phillistines, I speak of course of the business/IT degree. Count yourself lucky that your mind has not calcified and your range of interests and curiosities not narrowed to a tiny point on the cusp of oblivion. No doubt you supplemented your 'education' with a good dose of Hegel, Marx, Nietzsche and Adorno on the side, with a keen interest in literary journals and art criticism.

glen123

Iscreamkone wrote: »

A friend of mine has a cleaner who does 3 hours a week for her. She’s in her 60s, is from Lithuania and has little spoken English. She works hard to make a living. She doesn’t complain if the conditions are hard or very casual. She makes enough money to get by. She doesn’t ask for money & stuff from the government like a lot of Irish do. If she gets paid cash in hand - good luck to her.

I am not sure how your friend knows exactly what her cleaner claims in benefits or doesn't. People who work for cash and are on benefits usually don't go around avertising the same for many reasons.

Ronaldinho

Anyone going to see his play? Let us know if it's any good.

The Rape of Lucretia

Better Than Christ wrote: »

The arts degree: Hated by idiots who know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Quite. An arts degree was never intended to be monetised. It is study for study's sake. And all the better for it. But really only for gentlemen of independent means, or for a few who are needed to become the tutors, or the masters in a public school, to boys of that class. The problem arises when people enrole in them who will later have to find gainful employ, rather than taking a grand tour to enhance their learning and then taking up their position in society. The former are really more suited to the manual trades, which provide ample work opportunity to that class.

Homelander

What a braindead article, reminds me of that tosspot fool whinging about how Belfast wasn't the same as New York and blaming everyone but herself for finding herself back there.

Wow, rural Co. Clare doesn't offer people with degrees in Literature the same opportunities as one of the biggest metropolises in the world, mind-blowing.

imme

I sensed attention seeking or someone trying to get a regular column in the Irish Times.

This man every kind of opportunity, every kind of service and every form of education in rural counties.

Oranage2

imme wrote: »

I sensed attention seeking or someone trying to get a regular column in the Irish Times.

This man every kind of opportunity, every kind of service and every form of education in rural counties.

Or at least has a buddy that allowed helium to promote his play.

Assetbacked

imme wrote: »

I sensed attention seeking or someone trying to get a regular column in the Irish Times.

This man every kind of opportunity, every kind of service and every form of education in rural counties.

The emigration generation series is mainly about those looking to get a leg up and therefore does involve some spite about having to leave in the first place? It is entitlement and such personalities get attracted to superficial places like London and New York but ultimately they end up whinging and coming back; why? Because Ireland isn't the crap place they want it to be in order to justify running away run from their own insecurities.

Arghus

The point of the article is that a lot of people who emigrated don't see the point of moving back because of issues with rent, lack of housing, amongst other things. That applies to people who work in all sorts of industries.

The sense of entitlement thing is a bit overstated. At the end of the day he did emigrate and find work elsewhere. But maybe you didn't get further than the first sentence before imploding with rage. As usual, some quare amount of projecting going on in this thread.

All I hope is that they stay wherever they went.

Nermal

thenightman wrote: »

This lad sounds happy enough

someone hasn't read the article, clearly doesn't have a masters in literature

andekwarhola

People have always had to move to places like London for work, especially for people with less practical qualifications.

It's just that now, even trying to avoid the articles is hard work because they're cited around the clock in every forum you read as part of the outrage wars.

JustAThought

Some of the subjects classified as Arts which you can study in combinations:

Maths
Economics
Business,Economics,Social Science (BESS)
Languages - European, Asian, Russian
Literature / English
History
Geography

Hardly a tosspots list.

Clareman

2009 wasn't a great year anywhere, in the mid-west Dell was after announcing that it was closing the factory BUT there was loads of minimum wage jobs available. My guess is that John thought a minimum wage in Clare was below him because he had a Masters but that was ok in London.Probably didn't help that he was straight out of college with little experience.

The J Stands for Jay

Assetbacked wrote: »

The emigration generation series is mainly about those looking to get a leg up and therefore does involve some spite about having to leave in the first place? It is entitlement and such personalities get attracted to superficial places like London and New York but ultimately they end up whinging and coming back; why? Because Ireland isn't the crap place they want it to be in order to justify running away run from their own insecurities.

I've only read a few of these articles, but they all went to anglophone cities, work as waiters or in shoos and then complain that they can't move back to Ireland.

Arghus

Arghus wrote: »

As usual, some quare amount of projecting going on in this thread.

particularly from the scalded arts grads, who seem determined to ignore the fact this fella went to a national paper whinging his personal-satisfaction degree choice hasnt made him rich yet

Arghus

[Deleted User] wrote: »

particularly from the scalded arts grads, who seem determined to ignore the fact this fella went to a national paper whinging his personal-satisfaction degree choice hasnt made him rich yet

Yes, particularly from the scalded arts grads...

Don't let the outrage take over your life.

Bit more to the article than that.

893bet

Playwright John O’Donovan’s new play Flights is on at the Project Arts Centre in Dublin until February 8th, and has its London premiere on February 11th to 29th at Omnibus Theatre.


He done ok. It’s a global economy. He was never gonna stay in Clare.

chrissb8

Oranage2 wrote: »

I see the guy added in mental health, depression and homelessness, it seems like everyone in Ireland now suffers with at least one of these things. I'm surprised he didn't throw in allergic to gluten.



Ps. I know mental health, depression and homelessness are real and they're serious problems but it seems like everyone now has self diagnosed depression or homeless because they live at home.

It's almost like these people are waiting for change to come to them instead of changing themselves. How I see it anyway.

Complain loads about a situation, yeah ok, I get it's tough but what are you going to do about it?

Because you are the only person who can change it.

I think when anyone shouts mental health these days it's such a delicate topic we just kind of have to accept it.

Maybe you're just going through a rough time instead and it's a part of life like happiness is? People need to learn to find inner strength and overcome these "problems" aka life. Because there will be many more hurdles in life and you gotta build resiliance and healthy coping mechanisms. Talk to your friends and family but know that you are the only one who can change a situation you're in.

creditcarder

Kitty6277 wrote: »

Because not everyone has an interest/ability to do well in the business/IT/engineering courses

Get a trade skill. Move out of Dublin and work on the minimun wage (When you have the memories of home it can be a good life imo). Transfer your skills to open your own business. Find work where you are that you can take home. Learn another skill that you can work from home.



I can see where they are coming from as I grew up in a small town in the centre, so I can see what they mean by being forced out, but there are other options.

creditcarder

banie01 wrote: »

An arts degree and a master's in Literature!
Well done...

The foresight to realise that such esoteric qualifications are of fúck all use in gaining somewhat local employment in a rural part of Co Clare...

Well that doesn't say much for an arts degree is shaping one for actual adulthood!

Get a PGCE and you can maybe work in Britain/Ireland. I mean there are options.

Arghus

chrissb8 wrote: »

It's almost like these people are waiting for change to come to them instead of changing themselves. How I see it anyway.

Complain loads about a situation, yeah ok, I get it's tough but what are you going to do about it?

Because you are the only person who can change it.

I think when anyone shouts mental health these days it's such a delicate topic we just kind of have to accept it.

Maybe you're just going through a rough time instead and it's a part of life like happiness is? People need to learn to find inner strength and overcome these "problems" aka life. Because there will be many more hurdles in life and you gotta build resiliance and healthy coping mechanisms. Talk to your friends and family but know that you are the only one who can change a situation you're in.

The guy did change his situation. He moved to London and took unpaid internship work in the industry he wanted to work in - and now he's a playwright. He's not saying his life is shyte.

Honestly, do people actually read the articles they give out about?

Also, there's no way he wrote the title or the sub heading for the article. That's the work of a sub editor somewhere in The Irish Times.

Pinch Flat

He's probably fluent in a language as well. Latin perhaps.

colm_mcm

Basically a plug for his play.

Kitty6277

creditcarder wrote: »

Get a trade skill. Move out of Dublin and work on the minimun wage (When you have the memories of home it can be a good life imo). Transfer your skills to open your own business. Find work where you are that you can take home. Learn another skill that you can work from home.



I can see where they are coming from as I grew up in a small town in the centre, so I can see what they mean by being forced out, but there are other options.

That still doesn’t mean that will suit everyone. Not everyone wants to work in a trade, not everyone wants to open a business. I don’t agree with the notion of “get a degree just because there’s jobs in it”. Obviously you want to be able to work and use your degree but there’s no point in studying something you hate and then going on to work in a job you hate.

Now while I’m not saying yer man should have expected to get a job with his literature MA in rural Clare, the point I took from it was that he couldn’t even have gotten a job in his home country, that it was easier for him to move away, and that’s not right either.

cloudatlas

Homelander wrote: »

What a braindead article, reminds me of that tosspot fool whinging about how Belfast wasn't the same as New York and blaming everyone but herself for finding herself back there.

Wow, rural Co. Clare doesn't offer people with degrees in Literature the same opportunities as one of the biggest metropolises in the world, mind-blowing.

There have been a few articles in the IT from people who went away and then came back without doing any research and then were shocked when things weren't falling into place for them, they are eejits but this guy I actually empathize with. He was pro-active moved away even though he'd rather stay, recovered from his depression and found a way to do what he enjoys.

His crime not finding a soul destroying office job and giving up, Let's throw rocks at him!

I know many people who are working in soul destroying office jobs because they can't find their way back into the Arts after the recession left them jobless, for them it was an absolute joy to work in a creative space or to help people engage with their own creativity and learning quite a few have suffered from periods of depression/ felt down and trapped in a meaningless loop of an existence.

Richard Hillman

Those type of art degrees are for folk from wealthy families, who will do an interest subject in university and then take over the running of the family profession.

Folk like Prince William or Greta Thunberg (if she ever goes to school again) who will do their thing and then inherit the family dynasty.

A fancy dan degree in Classics or History of Art is not for the Average Joe from a housing estate.