The hub controller

chuck eastwood · 25-09-2019 10:28pm

dingdong1234567 wrote: »

I'll leave the juvenile comments to you. If you have nothing positive to add then you are best to say *uck all.

Again and as others have pointed out it was a tad dramatic. I offered you advice based on the current situation you found yourself in. With good will and very simple instructions you refused to even consider doing exactly what a service tech would do (I am service/maintenance tech by trade) so you can or should be able to understand why other are bemused by your response to a straight forward and basic instruction that any how soap could follow to maybe get your heating up and running without calling in help.
I have often asked simple question here only to be schooled by very helpful boards members with simple answers. Genuinely don't know what you expect when you ask a question? . Anyway. Did you get it fixed

AndrewJRenko · 25-01-2020 5:05pm

We just had our first boiler service after having the Hub Controller for about a year. The engineer tells us that it is wired incorrectly. It should have a permanent live power output to the boiler, but it is switching the boiler completely off every time. The blue light on the boiler goes out, and the boiler pump doesn't have the chance to run for a few minutes to cool everything down. There are some signs of bumps on the heat exchanger, which he suspects is due to it not cooling down properly.

Did anyone else have this problem?

deezell · 26-01-2020 2:23am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

We just had our first boiler service after having the Hub Controller for about a year. The engineer tells us that it is wired incorrectly. It should have a permanent live power output to the boiler, but it is switching the boiler completely off every time. The blue light on the boiler goes out, and the boiler pump doesn't have the chance to run for a few minutes to cool everything down. There are some signs of bumps on the heat exchanger, which he suspects is due to it not cooling down properly.

Did anyone else have this problem?

Did hub controller install this? Time to get a solicitor. Their vague claims of savings and the other sh1te put forward here by converts will fall a long way short of cost of fixing the exchanger. Complete amateur installation. Its not just the pump that should post run, it's the blower on the burner. Only very old boilers our in sheds operated on a single SL connection.

dingdong1234567 · 26-01-2020 10:12am

deezell wrote: »

Did hub controller install this? Time to get a solicitor. Their vague claims of savings and the other sh1te put forward here by converts will fall a long way short of cost of fixing the exchanger. Complete amateur installation. Its not just the pump that should post run, it's the blower on the burner. Only very old boilers our in sheds operated on a single SL connection.

Well said.

AndrewJRenko · 26-01-2020 4:59pm

deezell wrote: »

Did hub controller install this? Time to get a solicitor. Their vague claims of savings and the other sh1te put forward here by converts will fall a long way short of cost of fixing the exchanger. Complete amateur installation. Its not just the pump that should post run, it's the blower on the burner. Only very old boilers our in sheds operated on a single SL connection.

Yep, their own installation.

What do you mean by 'single SL connection' please?

deezell · 26-01-2020 7:05pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Yep, their own installation.

What do you mean by 'single SL connection' please?

This is when the Switched Live (SL) mains voltage signal from the thermostat/timer is used not just to tell the boiler to fire, but to actually power the boiler from cold. Certain old boilers would be wired like this, no permanent live to the boiler to keep its controller in standby, just a single live cable, like turning a lamp on and off. Boilers benefit from having a permanent supply, so after the stat cuts out, the boiler can cut the flame, but keep the fan running to purge fumes, keep the pump running to cool the baffles and exchanger. Also, they run the fan and fire up the igniter briefly prior to opening the fuel valve. Modern condensor boilers have lots of electronics, they need power all the time. Older boilers, especially outdoor types, had burners that were just powered on and off.

AndrewJRenko · 26-01-2020 10:58pm

deezell wrote: »

This is when the Switched Live (SL) mains voltage signal from the thermostat/timer is used not just to tell the boiler to fire, but to actually power the boiler from cold. Certain old boilers would be wired like this, no permanent live to the boiler to keep its controller in standby, just a single live cable, like turning a lamp on and off. Boilers benefit from having a permanent supply, so after the stat cuts out, the boiler can cut the flame, but keep the fan running to purge fumes, keep the pump running to cool the baffles and exchanger. Also, they run the fan and fire up the igniter briefly prior to opening the fuel valve. Modern condensor boilers have lots of electronics, they need power all the time. Older boilers, especially outdoor types, had burners that were just powered on and off.

Thanks, very helpful

fitzparker · 10-03-2020 3:03pm

Can someone help answer.

The guy came to install this last week, he advised that this turns on both hot water and heating (we never use hot water) so my wife was hesitant and rushing out the door, so didn't go ahead with it.

is this correct about hot water? does it make much of a difference in using up oil if both were on? on our current thermostat we can switch water/heating oil on separately.

deezell · 10-03-2020 5:35pm

fitzparker wrote: »

Can someone help answer.

The guy came to install this last week, he advised that this turns on both hot water and heating (we never use hot water) so my wife was hesitant and rushing out the door, so didn't go ahead with it.

is this correct about hot water? does it make much of a difference in using up oil if both were on? on our current thermostat we can switch water/heating oil on separately.

You've just downgraded to a single zone system from a 2 zone. Those guys have no shame. Hub controller is just a CH stat, and he would have wired it to heat the HW cylinder every time it came on to heat the CH, or somthing like that. Worse, if you just wanted to heat HW using oil boiler in the summer, you'd be heating the CH as well.
I'm curious, you "never use hot water". Do you, like, take cold showers? Or do you heat the cylinder from an electric immersion element?

ted1 · 11-03-2020 9:49am

deezell wrote: »

I'm curious, you "never use hot water". Do you, like, take cold showers? Or do you heat the cylinder from an electric immersion element?

We are similar. Use an electric shower. But our heating is just 1 zone so don’t want to heat the house in the summer to get hot water.

deezell · 11-03-2020 10:25am

ted1 wrote: »

We are similar. Use an electric shower. But our heating is just 1 zone so don’t want to heat the house in the summer to get hot water.

The installation of a 2 port zone valve for fully pumped systems or just using the stat relay to operate the pump on gravity HW systems is enough to ensure that you can heat the HW independently of CH in both cases, and vice versa with a 3 port valve, CH without HW. There's no huge cost penalty if your HW cylinder is heating while CH is on, unless your cylinder is uninsulated in a draughty press or the attic, but you don't want the rads on in the summer while heating a few gallons of HW. It would be money well spent on getting your system to have 2 zones, CH and HW, and then a smart stat on the CH part. For some cowboy to come along and downgrade a 2 zone system back to one because his dubious 'smart' stat is as smart as a light switch is just unacceptable. Tado, Nest, Hive, Drayton all can operate in two zone mode with their HW+CH relays. EPH ember is not 'smart', but it is internet capable and easily operates 2 or 3 zones.

fitzparker · 11-03-2020 11:41am

deezell wrote: »

You've just downgraded to a single zone system from a 2 zone. Those guys have no shame. Hub controller is just a CH stat, and he would have wired it to heat the HW cylinder every time it came on to heat the CH, or somthing like that. Worse, if you just wanted to heat HW using oil boiler in the summer, you'd be heating the CH as well.
I'm curious, you "never use hot water". Do you, like, take cold showers? Or do you heat the cylinder from an electric immersion element?

We didnt end up getting it, didn't actually think of it the other way which is worse (hot water for the summer means CH comes on aswell)
now we will definitely not get it.

Never use hot water meaning we only use electric shower, maybe used the bath twice in 3 years.

im new to this, so if im looking for something similar I need a 2 zone system, would that be right?

fitzparker · 11-03-2020 11:43am

deezell wrote: »

The installation of a 2 port zone valve for fully pumped systems or just using the stat relay to operate the pump on gravity HW systems is enough to ensure that you can heat the HW independently of CH in both cases, and vice versa with a 3 port valve, CH without HW. There's no huge cost penalty if your HW cylinder is heating while CH is on, unless your cylinder is uninsulated in a draughty press or the attic, but you don't want the rads on in the summer while heating a few gallons of HW. It would be money well spent on getting your system to have 2 zones, CH and HW, and then a smart stat on the CH part. For some cowboy to come along and downgrade a 2 zone system back to one because his dubious 'smart' stat is as smart as a light switch is just unacceptable. Tado, Nest, Hive, Drayton all can operate in two zone mode with their HW+CH relays. EPH ember is not 'smart', but it is internet capable and easily operates 2 or 3 zones.

Totally missed this post which answered my question, ill look into these. Thanks

ddub11 · 14-10-2020 6:37pm

Got hub installed yesterday and seemed to work fine.

came home today and the control panel screen is Blank/Black.Its as if theres no power going into it (which there is)has anybody any idea whats wrong here?thanks.

Gerard93 · 14-10-2020 7:15pm

ddub11 wrote: »

Got hub installed yesterday and seemed to work fine.

came home today and the control panel screen is Blank/Black.Its as if theres no power going into it (which there is)has anybody any idea whats wrong here?thanks.

Try reset remove the Hub from the base if you have the plastic removal tool you should be able to do with this

You may need to pair your hub with your phone again after this

WestWicklow1 · 14-10-2020 8:47pm

ddub11 wrote: »

Got hub installed yesterday and seemed to work fine.

came home today and the control panel screen is Blank/Black.Its as if theres no power going into it (which there is)has anybody any idea whats wrong here?thanks.

I found the only way to get over the constant problems with this hub was to reinstall my old controller :mad:

deezell · 14-10-2020 10:59pm

ddub11 wrote: »

Got hub installed yesterday and seemed to work fine.

came home today and the control panel screen is Blank/Black.Its as if theres no power going into it (which there is)has anybody any idea whats wrong here?thanks.

Has your device a fully wired mains supply, live and neutral, as well as a SL wire to the boiler, or has it been wired with just the two wires from a previous old stat? Without a mains live and neutral wire, to keep its battery charged, this stat needs a live voltage on one terminal, and a reasonable load on the other, such as a boiler pump. When the relay is open, the stat can siphon power from the mains voltage difference across the terminals to trickle charge a battery. If your boiler is fired by closing a low voltage or volt free input, there may be low or insufficient voltage across the stat terminals when open, so the device battery will go flat. Check how many wires are connected inside.
It might just be a dud also, most electronic devices, if they're going to fail, will do so early in their life.

dingdong1234567 · 15-10-2020 7:52pm

I removed this thing ages ago. Screen went black and no chance of getting it fixed. So whipped it off and reinstalled the old timer clock. Pure gimmick.

ddub11 · 15-10-2020 8:44pm

deezell wrote: »

Has your device a fully wired mains supply, live and neutral, as well as a SL wire to the boiler, or has it been wired with just the two wires from a previous old stat? Without a mains live and neutral wire, to keep its battery charged, this stat needs a live voltage on one terminal, and a reasonable load on the other, such as a boiler pump. When the relay is open, the stat can siphon power from the mains voltage difference across the terminals to trickle charge a battery. If your boiler is fired by closing a low voltage or volt free input, there may be low or insufficient voltage across the stat terminals when open, so the device battery will go flat. Check how many wires are connected inside.
It might just be a dud also, most electronic devices, if they're going to fail, will do so early in their life.

Done a bit of research and seems it needed a reboot,all i did was removed the unit from its harness(what ever its called)with the tool provided ,clicked it back on and it works no problem.

Not sure why it went like that but everything works fine now,early days but it seems a handy device to have and easy to use.

Seems some people arent happy with it but im happy to give it a go and see how it goes,anyway thanks for the reply.

davegilly · 15-10-2020 8:55pm

ddub11 wrote: »

Not sure why it went like that but everything works fine now,early days but it seems a handy device to have and easy to use.

Failed software update is what they told me waa the reason for the black screen. Rebooted and all ok since!

cruizer101 · 15-10-2020 9:51pm

dingdong1234567 wrote: »

I removed this thing ages ago. Screen went black and no chance of getting it fixed. So whipped it off and reinstalled the old timer clock. Pure gimmick.

Did you try contact them. I found them very responsive when I had an issue.

Not as fancy as some other smart controls but free and is handy for remotly boosting the heating.

deezell · 15-10-2020 11:09pm

cruizer101 wrote: »

Did you try contact them. I found them very responsive when I had an issue.

Not as fancy as some other smart controls but free and is handy for remotly boosting the heating.

Free it's not. There's a substantial grant ( your taxes) collected on your behalf by the utility on the pretence that you have an energy saving smart zoned heating controller. It's none of these. If you do try to get a proper full featured smart heating control system in the future, your grant is already gobbled. Not that any of the utilities would install these superior stats anyway, as they make a profit by installing cheap tat. If you try to do it independently, grant registered installers rates seem to be higher by the amount of the grant, so most forget the grant, buy the kit as a Amazon special or in a sale, and DIY it.

cruizer101 · 16-10-2020 8:49am

deezell wrote: »

Free it's not. There's a substantial grant ( your taxes) collected on your behalf by the utility on the pretence that you have an energy saving smart zoned heating controller. It's none of these. If you do try to get a proper full featured smart heating control system in the future, your grant is already gobbled. Not that any of the utilities would install these superior stats anyway, as they make a profit by installing cheap tat. If you try to do it independently, grant registered installers rates seem to be higher by the amount of the grant, so most forget the grant, buy the kit as a Amazon special or in a sale, and DIY it.

I've seen this said before in this thread and am sceptical of it. At no point was I told that and it is not mentioned in any of the documentation. In terms of funding I know they b got various grants themselves but not from seai.

Do you have any proof of what you are claiming.

dingdong1234567 · 17-10-2020 10:27pm

cruizer101 wrote: »

Did you try contact them. I found them very responsive when I had an issue.

Not as fancy as some other smart controls but free and is handy for remotly boosting the heating.

My experience couldn't be more different. Responsive they were not from the first to the last. The unit worked for about a month and then died. Why would any sane person want to contact a company that provides poor service and product.

Unit was removed and binned.

FYI, it's not free. Tax payers are footing the bill ultimately.

deezell · 18-10-2020 9:24am

cruizer101 wrote: »

I've seen this said before in this thread and am sceptical of it. At no point was I told that and it is not mentioned in any of the documentation. In terms of funding I know they b got various grants themselves but not from seai.

Do you have any proof of what you are claiming.

Start here

https://www.seai.ie/business-and-public-sector/business-grants-and-supports/energy-efficiency-obligation-scheme/

cruizer101 · 18-10-2020 5:06pm

dingdong1234567 wrote: »

My experience couldn't be more different. Responsive they were not from the first to the last. The unit worked for about a month and then died. Why would any sane person want to contact a company that provides poor service and product.

Unit was removed and binned.

FYI, it's not free. Tax payers are footing the bill ultimately.

Strange, when I had an issue I emailed and got a reply within 30 minutes and that was at around 7 in the evening, then had installer out in the next day or so.
Fair enough I'd get rid of it too if got no response.

deezell wrote: »

Start here

https://www.seai.ie/business-and-public-sector/business-grants-and-supports/energy-efficiency-obligation-scheme/

From link "The property owner must give written consent to the obligated party agreeing to assign energy credits to them."

I never had to do anything of this sort so I don't see any reason to believe that if I were to apply for the grant I wouldn't receive it.

dingdong1234567 · 19-10-2020 3:48pm

cruizer101 wrote: »

Strange, when I had an issue I emailed and got a reply within 30 minutes and that was at around 7 in the evening, then had installer out in the next day or so.
Fair enough I'd get rid of it too if got no response.

From link "The property owner must give written consent to the obligated party agreeing to assign energy credits to them."

I never had to do anything of this sort so I don't see any reason to believe that if I were to apply for the grant I wouldn't receive it.

Yep strange alright......but true.

jimmycrackcorm · 24-10-2020 12:39am

I have them coming to install next week. But reading this thread has me concerned. I've currently a climote to control both the central heating and the hot water separately. The central heating heats the water anyway so during the winter I don't bother setting that. But during the summer I have the supply to the rads turned off and the water is heated using its schedule and the hot water tank thermostat.

But now I don't know how this is going to work in the summer for me. If I turn off the rads in the summer, how is it going to heat the water if its own built-in thermostat is controlling the heating?

deezell · 24-10-2020 7:04am

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I have them coming to install next week. But reading this thread has me concerned. I've currently a climote to control both the central heating and the hot water separately. The central heating heats the water anyway so during the winter I don't bother setting that. But during the summer I have the supply to the rads turned off and the water is heated using its schedule and the hot water tank thermostat.

But now I don't know how this is going to work in the summer for me. If I turn off the rads in the summer, how is it going to heat the water if its own built-in thermostat is controlling the heating?

How indeed. The hub controller"s business model is based entirely on obtaining a large wodge of grant cash on your behalf in order to fund the business, on is own no one would pay this kind of money for a basic single zone non smart featureless thermostat. How they can get away with assessing your current installation as grant eligible by being inferior to what they are proposing to fit baffles me. They brazenly claim the grant anyway. You are about to lose a big standard but significant energy management feature, the ability to schedule HW timing without the radiators heating.
Now when you say 'the supply to the rads turned off' I'm assuming that is achieved by simply programming the Climote CH schedule off? If you mean that you have to physically turn each rad valve off, then you haven't even got the most basic of grant eligible systems, the ability the heat the HW only without mechanical intervention. In this case you'll end up programming the hub for CH but with closed rads just to get HW.
If you can currently turn off the CH schedule and just use the HW schedule without radiators heating, then don't change from this to a useless hub controller.
If you want to upgrade, not downgrade, get a Tado+HW kit. Hive 2 zone or Drayton Kit 2.. all streets ahead in terms of features, and with optional smart individual radiator control by adding TRVs later. If you can't heat HW only without the rads being closed off manually this is where your grant money should be going, the installation of zone valves, but this is a real energy efficiency measure, requiring a bit of real work and upgrade, not a paper exercise justification for claiming taxpayers money for pretend energy improvement measures.

deezell · 24-10-2020 7:14am

cruizer101 wrote: »

..
.......I never had to do anything of this sort so I don't see any reason to believe that if I were to apply for the grant I wouldn't receive it.

So why is this on the Hub Controller website.
"If your house was built before 2006, you have oil or gas heating and wi-fi, and have never received a heating controls grant you should qualify."
If that doesn't tell you they're after your grant, try getting some real improvements done, and apply to the seai for the grant. See what they say.

chuck eastwood · 24-10-2020 7:22am

Be very very careful with these guys. As many here will tell you the basis of hubs business model is to supply a very basic unit and over state it's abilities to get grants. My contact with the was extremely frustrating and ending up running the installer. The site stated at the time that it could provide for more than one zone and when I asked for teaching details they couldn't explain how. Next i was given a very hard sell telling me even if I just had the whole house on one zone I would still save money, no logic to it at all. Now I'm a pipe fitter/mech engineer and I consider it a basic system yet they still couldn't explain how. After a lot of back and forth they swore blind it could serve a two zine heating system. Booked it in, installer showed up two weeks after the date, tells me he can't do a two zone set up and and his heart is broken because it's being misold by the sales team. Felt sorry for him but it's a sham of an operation

deezell · 24-10-2020 7:27am

There you have it. It's a disgrace that EU money is being misused in this way. Another poster told of how they removed his two zone CH control system and combined it back into one. Staggering

chuck eastwood · 24-10-2020 7:35am

deezell wrote: »

There you have it. It's a disgrace that EU money is being misused in this way. Another poster told of how they removed his two zone CH control system and combined it back into one. Staggering

I should have reported them over it but I had more important things to be at. Now if you had a single zone it's fine but their hardware and software is poor. I still can't get over how brazen they were about trying to tell me how a giant single zone combining Z1Z2 and HW would save me more than having separate zone. Worst thing about it is that it would be relatively easy for a software engineer to design a system to run multi zone

L'prof · 24-10-2020 7:36am

I went with a different company under the same scheme and am very happy with it. I previously had a Nest Thermostat but that was either everything on or everything off. I should have been able to control the hot water and rads separately by a switch on the boiler but the controls were bust. The new system installed can control upstairs, downstairs and hot water individually. This is a huge improvement for me. The only slight inconvenience is that I can’t control my heating with any of the smart assistants, just it’s own dedicated app

chuck eastwood · 24-10-2020 7:41am

L'prof wrote: »

I went with a different company under the same scheme and am very happy with it. I previously had a Nest Thermostat but that was either everything on or everything off. I should have been able to control the hot water and rads separately by a switch on the boiler but the controls were bust. The new system installed can control upstairs, downstairs and hot water individually. This is a huge improvement for me. The only slight inconvenience is that I can’t control my heating with any of the smart assistants, just it’s one dedicated app

Can you DM me the name of the company or the controller they use. I have a stove on my system wired up with a systemlink. Works really well but no app control

deezell · 24-10-2020 7:44am

Sounds like the Ember 3 zone controller? Proper zone controller, remote access, not 'smart' as you say, but a good start from a reputable company.

L'prof · 24-10-2020 7:48am

deezell wrote: »

Sounds like the Ember 3 zone controller? Proper zone controller, remote access, not 'smart' as you say, but a good start from a reputable company.

This is the one. I’ll send on the installer info if I can find it

chuck eastwood · 24-10-2020 7:50am

deezell wrote: »

Sounds like the Ember 3 zone controller? Proper zone controller, remote access, not 'smart' as you say, but a good start from a reputable company.

I'll check that out. I don't need a smart controller to learn schedules etc. We both work changing shifts and I just want something that can control each zone remotely

deezell · 24-10-2020 7:58am

This Drayton Kit 3 is a step up from the Ember, very full featured, but in a simple package with your 3 zone wall controller, a cinch to wire in. Aleca/Google capable also. It should cost no more than the Ember kit, and can be used in a grant aided install.
https://www.screwfix.ie/p/drayton-heating-hot-water-3-channel-wiser-thermostat-control-kit/4081v

jimmycrackcorm · 25-10-2020 1:22am

deezell wrote: »

Now when you say 'the supply to the rads turned off' I'm assuming that is achieved by simply programming the Climote CH schedule off? If you mean that you have to physically turn each rad valve off, then you haven't even got the most basic of grant eligible systems, the ability the heat the HW only without mechanical intervention. In this case you'll end up programming the hub for CH but with closed rads just to get HW.
If you can currently turn off the CH schedule and just use the HW schedule without radiators heating, then don't change from this to a useless hub controller.
If you want to upgrade, not downgrade, get a Tado+HW kit. Hive 2 zone or Drayton Kit 2.. all streets ahead in terms of features, and with optional smart individual radiator control by adding TRVs later. If you can't heat HW only without the rads being closed off manually this is where your grant money should be going, the installation of zone valves, but this is a real energy efficiency measure, requiring a bit of real work and upgrade, not a paper exercise justification for claiming taxpayers money for pretend energy improvement measures.

But turning off the rad supply I mean in the summer I turn off the hot water feed at the hot water tank so it doesn't go to the radiators. The hot water tank thermostat is what is then determining the temperature when the boiler cuts out for the water zone in climote.

If either hearing or water zones are active then the radiators heat up unless the water supply to the radiators is cut off. So it sounds like with the hub controller that during the summer if I want hot water then I need to set the temperature higher to get it to activate to heat the water. I.e. the money house night have a normal ambient temperature as required and never hear the water unless I set it high or override.

I believe my hot water should actually be independent as there is a Danfoss controller sitting on the pipe with together with them tank thermostat, and I think it's not working.

That sounds like a crazy way to operate.

jimmycrackcorm · 25-10-2020 1:24am

deezell wrote: »

This Drayton Kit 3 is a step up from the Ember, very full featured, but in a simple package with your 3 zone wall controller, a cinch to wire in. Aleca/Google capable also. It should cost no more than the Ember kit, and can be used in a grant aided install.
https://www.screwfix.ie/p/drayton-heating-hot-water-3-channel-wiser-thermostat-control-kit/4081v

How can I get this via a grant aided install? I could probably install it myself but otherwise do you need to get an approved installer and pay up front then claim back, or are there installers taking care of the while process?

deezell · 25-10-2020 7:27am

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

How can I get this via a grant aided install? I could probably install it myself but otherwise do you need to get an approved installer and pay up front then claim back, or are there installers taking care of the while process?

Long reply warning!!
Firstly, this kit is for a properly functioning 3 zone system, upstairs CH, downstairs CH and HW, which is not yours.
If you had a working zoned system, 2 or 3 zones, and if you can find someone like the installer referred to earlier who done the Ember install for L'prof, it's just a case of asking for the different controller, and if he's up front about the cost of his preferred kit (Ember), then I see no reason that you shouldn't be able to ask for the Drayton, it's design is almost identical to the Ember.
That's the theory, but many of these guys stick to what they know. It's little wonder then that quotes are so high for grant aided work, net if grant, that you end up just doing a DIY job.
In your case you already have a botched system, as you have a two zone controller which is connected to a single Zone system, which may be a two Zone as it has a valve. Either the valve is faulty, or the installation of the Climote was botched. Who installed that? Was it another offer you received from an electric utility? Prior to the Climote, what did you have? Did HW work without without heating the rads? This needs to be sorted first, rather than adding an even more useless stat to your system.
Unfortunately, all these offers involve nothing more than swapping whatever stat you have for the offer one. They will never address your system configuration, and figure out what you already have, single zone, gravity two zone, pumped, zone valve(s) etc. They will swap a pair of wires and leg it.
IF you can get your system plumbing sorted, to at least give you individual zoning of CH and HW only without resorting to manually closing valves, then you can have the Climote working as it should. With this, you can then inquire about fitting (possibly with grant), a proper smart two zone system, such as the two zone version of the Drayton I linked earlier, whic is only €144, https://www.screwfix.ie/p/drayton-heating-2-channel-wiser-thermostat-control-kit/9575v
Other options are Tado, Nest, Hive, all capable of switching a 2 zone valved system.
Tbh, you'll need to find a genuine competent person to first examine your system and sort out your zoning. Many older systems consisted of a mechanical timer which just fired the boiler for everything, HW and CH, and then a wall stat which either turned on a circulation pump for CH, or a zone valve if the pump was already on constantly when the boiler fired. Adding a two zone controller to such a setup was beyond most installers, as they are generally designed for a fully independent 2 valve (S plan) or changeover valve (Y plan) system, not the cruder HW always, CH on a stat system I described. Some two zone controllers such asTado can cope with the wiring required to operate a gravity two zone, where HW is always heated, but CH is controlled by either the pump or a single valve. Wiring this correctly requires a little more know how than just swapping the old stat for the new controller stat, which may be what happened when the Climote was installed.

L'prof · 25-10-2020 9:42am

deezell wrote: »

Long reply warning!!
Firstly, this kit is for a properly functioning 3 zone system, upstairs CH, downstairs CH and HW, which is not yours.
If you had a working zoned system, 2 or 3 zones, and if you can find someone like the installer referred to earlier who done the Ember install for L'prof, it's just a case of asking for the different controller, and if he's up front about the cost of his preferred kit (Ember), then I see no reason that you shouldn't be able to ask for the Drayton, it's design is almost identical to the Ember.
That's the theory, but many of these guys stick to what they know. It's little wonder then that quotes are so high for grant aided work, net if grant, that you end up just doing a DIY job.
In your case you already have a botched system, as you have a two zone controller which is connected to a single Zone system, which may be a two Zone as it has a valve. Either the valve is faulty, or the installation of the Climote was botched. Who installed that? Was it another offer you received from an electric utility? Prior to the Climote, what did you have? Did HW work without without heating the rads? This needs to be sorted first, rather than adding an even more useless stat to your system.
Unfortunately, all these offers involve nothing more than swapping whatever stat you have for the offer one. They will never address your system configuration, and figure out what you already have, single zone, gravity two zone, pumped, zone valve(s) etc. They will swap a pair of wires and leg it.
IF you can get your system plumbing sorted, to at least give you individual zoning of CH and HW only without resorting to manually closing valves, then you can have the Climote working as it should. With this, you can then inquire about fitting (possibly with grant), a proper smart two zone system, such as the two zone version of the Drayton I linked earlier, whic is only €144, https://www.screwfix.ie/p/drayton-heating-2-channel-wiser-thermostat-control-kit/9575v
Other options are Tado, Nest, Hive, all capable of switching a 2 zone valved system.
Tbh, you'll need to find a genuine competent person to first examine your system and sort out your zoning. Many older systems consisted of a mechanical timer which just fired the boiler for everything, HW and CH, and then a wall stat which either turned on a circulation pump for CH, or a zone valve if the pump was already on constantly when the boiler fired. Adding a two zone controller to such a setup was beyond most installers, as they are generally designed for a fully independent 2 valve (S plan) or changeover valve (Y plan) system, not the cruder HW always, CH on a stat system I described. Some two zone controllers such asTado can cope with the wiring required to operate a gravity two zone, where HW is always heated, but CH is controlled by either the pump or a single valve. Wiring this correctly requires a little more know how than just swapping the old stat for the new controller stat, which may be what happened when the Climote was installed.

I’d just like to add that I didn’t have a zoned system before the the installer came to my house. That was an upgrade as part of the install

deezell · 25-10-2020 10:22am

L'prof wrote: »

I’d just like to add that I didn’t have a zoned system before the the installer came to my house. That was an upgrade as part of the install

So your upgrade was a proper plumbed 3 zone upgrade, plus a decent electronic internet app controller. That's worthy of the grant. Can you indicate what the total cost was after grant? People really need to know whats needed, these 'Free' upgrades are a con, and are disqualifying people from later getting a proper grant aided installation like yours.

jimmycrackcorm · 26-10-2020 10:25pm

deezell wrote: »

Long reply warning!!
Firstly, this kit is for a properly functioning 3 zone system, upstairs CH, downstairs CH and HW, which is not yours.
If you had a working zoned system, 2 or 3 zones, and if you can find someone like the installer referred to earlier who done the Ember install for L'prof, it's just a case of asking for the different controller, and if he's up front about the cost of his preferred kit (Ember), then I see no reason that you shouldn't be able to ask for the Drayton, it's design is almost identical to the Ember.
That's the theory, but many of these guys stick to what they know. It's little wonder then that quotes are so high for grant aided work, net if grant, that you end up just doing a DIY job.
In your case you already have a botched system, as you have a two zone controller which is connected to a single Zone system, which may be a two Zone as it has a valve. Either the valve is faulty, or the installation of the Climote was botched. Who installed that? Was it another offer you received from an electric utility? Prior to the Climote, what did you have? Did HW work without without heating the rads? This needs to be sorted first, rather than adding an even more useless stat to your system.
Unfortunately, all these offers involve nothing more than swapping whatever stat you have for the offer one. They will never address your system configuration, and figure out what you already have, single zone, gravity two zone, pumped, zone valve(s) etc. They will swap a pair of wires and leg it.
IF you can get your system plumbing sorted, to at least give you individual zoning of CH and HW only without resorting to manually closing valves, then you can have the Climote working as it should. With this, you can then inquire about fitting (possibly with grant), a proper smart two zone system, such as the two zone version of the Drayton I linked earlier, whic is only €144, https://www.screwfix.ie/p/drayton-heating-2-channel-wiser-thermostat-control-kit/9575v
Other options are Tado, Nest, Hive, all capable of switching a 2 zone valved system.
Tbh, you'll need to find a genuine competent person to first examine your system and sort out your zoning. Many older systems consisted of a mechanical timer which just fired the boiler for everything, HW and CH, and then a wall stat which either turned on a circulation pump for CH, or a zone valve if the pump was already on constantly when the boiler fired. Adding a two zone controller to such a setup was beyond most installers, as they are generally designed for a fully independent 2 valve (S plan) or changeover valve (Y plan) system, not the cruder HW always, CH on a stat system I described. Some two zone controllers such asTado can cope with the wiring required to operate a gravity two zone, where HW is always heated, but CH is controlled by either the pump or a single valve. Wiring this correctly requires a little more know how than just swapping the old stat for the new controller stat, which may be what happened when the Climote was installed.

I'm almost certain that the Danfos HP-22 motorized valve isn't working. The climote is able to control the CH and water zones separately and based on their respective thermostat settings. I deduced that it's the Danfoss because in the summer I turn off the manual lever that is inline just after that so it looks to me that the purpose of that valve is to shut off the central heating supply when the water zone is active.

I requested cancellation of the hub controller anyway as there's no point losing out on the two zones I have when at some point I can look at the HP22 to see if the valve is stuck or the motor is burnt out and needs replacing.

What I really want in a replacement is a smart controller that not only will manage the heating temperature better, but also send me notifications, or I can track when it is turned on/off. Because I have a lodger who has a habit of turning on the heat in the middle of the night. I can check the Climote app to see if it is on, but I'd want to get some better tracking to know when I'm not asleep.

deezell · 26-10-2020 11:48pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I'm almost certain that the Danfos HP-22 motorized valve isn't working. The climote is able to control the CH and water zones separately and based on their respective thermostat settings. I deduced that it's the Danfoss because in the summer I turn off the manual lever that is inline just after that so it looks to me that the purpose of that valve is to shut off the central heating supply when the water zone is active.

I requested cancellation of the hub controller anyway as there's no point losing out on the two zones I have when at some point I can look at the HP22 to see if the valve is stuck or the motor is burnt out and needs replacing.

What I really want in a replacement is a smart controller that not only will manage the heating temperature better, but also send me notifications, or I can track when it is turned on/off. Because I have a lodger who has a habit of turning on the heat in the middle of the night. I can check the Climote app to see if it is on, but I'd want to get some better tracking to know when I'm not asleep.

Get that valve fixed, and the Tado would be perfect for you. As you only have a single valve in the CH flow, your system would appear to be configured for gravity mode. The wiring options for A two zone controller are a little different in gravity mode, and there are further differences between CH via pump, or CH via a valve. The valve has its own relay which closes when the valve opens, and this used to signal the boiler to fire for CH. In this instance, the live from the controller for HW ON goes straight to the boiler to fire it, the live for CH ON goes to the valve, which opens the flow and the closes the relay to fire the boiler. I'm curious as to why you boiler fires for CH if the valve is stuck. If stuck open, it would
keep firing the boiler continuously, but if stuck closed, then no CH.
It's possible that you Climote's two seperate zone live outputs have just been connected together to fire the boiler. In this case a live from the HW terminal is going to open the valve as well as a live from the CH terminal. This is why the valve has a relay, so that it can send a live to the boiler to fire it, but if the boiler call terminal is already live from another zone calling it (HW or CH2), this live will not feed back to the other zone and open it's valve. This logic is lost on some installers, who will happily join 2 or 3 zone ON terminals at the boiler, without realising this turns the system into a single zone, with any timer turning on all zones.
You need to check if that zone valve is opening, has it been mechanically locked open in service mode or is it stuck, and are there more than two wires connected to it, meaning it has an ON relay to fire the boiler. Get this sorted first, get two independent zones going, then you can consider better 2 zone smart stat systems.

L'prof · 26-10-2020 11:51pm

deezell wrote: »

So your upgrade was a proper plumbed 3 zone upgrade, plus a decent electronic internet app controller. That's worthy of the grant. Can you indicate what the total cost was after grant? People really need to know whats needed, these 'Free' upgrades are a con, and are disqualifying people from later getting a proper grant aided installation like yours.

Everything was included. I didn’t pay a thing

deezell · 27-10-2020 12:12am

L'prof wrote: »

Everything was included. I didn’t pay a thing

So a €700 grant covered a 3 zone controller, stats and 3 zone valves plus all the installation labour? I'm amazed.

L'prof · 27-10-2020 12:55am

deezell wrote: »

So a €700 grant covered a 3 zone controller, stats and 3 zone valves plus all the installation labour? I'm amazed.

I don’t know what the grant is worth but yeah, everything was covered. I think it was rads & hot water before but the hot water controller was broken so some cowboy had it wired to come on with the rads rather than fix it. Now there’s 3 brand new controllers so I can heat upstairs, downstairs and hot water independently

jimmycrackcorm · 28-10-2020 12:16am

deezell wrote: »

Get that valve fixed, and the Tado would be perfect for you. As you only have a single valve in the CH flow, your system would appear to be configured for gravity mode. The wiring options for A two zone controller are a little different in gravity mode, and there are further differences between CH via pump, or CH via a valve. The valve has its own relay which closes when the valve opens, and this used to signal the boiler to fire for CH. In this instance, the live from the controller for HW ON goes straight to the boiler to fire it, the live for CH ON goes to the valve, which opens the flow and the closes the relay to fire the boiler. I'm curious as to why you boiler fires for CH if the valve is stuck. If stuck open, it would
keep firing the boiler continuously, but if stuck closed, then no CH.
It's possible that you Climote's two seperate zone live outputs have just been connected together to fire the boiler. In this case a live from the HW terminal is going to open the valve as well as a live from the CH terminal. This is why the valve has a relay, so that it can send a live to the boiler to fire it, but if the boiler call terminal is already live from another zone calling it (HW or CH2), this live will not feed back to the other zone and open it's valve. This logic is lost on some installers, who will happily join 2 or 3 zone ON terminals at the boiler, without realising this turns the system into a single zone, with any timer turning on all zones.
You need to check if that zone valve is opening, has it been mechanically locked open in service mode or is it stuck, and are there more than two wires connected to it, meaning it has an ON relay to fire the boiler. Get this sorted first, get two independent zones going, then you can consider better 2 zone smart stat systems.

I think it is a gravity system as my showers are non-electric just gravity fed. The climate is correctly turning on the boiler for Ch /water based on their respective thermostats, i.e. if I turn either up they only kick in if the correct zone is active. The valve must be stuck open or unable to close and as it's in line with the supply to the CH, my guess is that its purpose is to cut the flow to the CH if only hot water is active. This makes sense to me as if you only need water then the heat shouldn't be wasted on CH and if you have CH, then might as well heat water at the same time.

I'll get it fixed when I get a chance, basically take off the motor part and check to see if the valve itself is able to operate/observe if the motor activates when activating the zone.

The hub controller

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