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Is it time to stop eating meat?

1246

Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭Dr Crayfish


    For those of you saying all Irish beef is great quality and pretty much organic, that's fair enough, but also look at what farming has done to our environment. We have zero wilderness on this island, none at all. We have I think the lowest forest coverage in Europe. If we carry on eating meat the way we are on this planet, countries like Brazil will end up like Ireland - no wilderness and no trees, and no wildlife.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    You can't win. You farm cattle until they're ready for the factory and you get sh*t about methane causing global warming but if you eradicate the methane production by producing veal, you're a monster

    It's about finding a happy medium. Veal for lunch, steak for dinner, alternate between them for breakfast.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    I could not do without my meat, and red meat at that. I eat meat 5 days a week. A typical week would have dinners of sirloin steak, homemade beefburgers, sausages & bacon, pork fillet, and beef stew. I'll get by with eggs and spuds for a day if I had to but I need my meat. I've seen how it's reared and how it's slaughtered but I still like my meat.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭One_Of_Shanks


    I like my meat (herself is veggie) but I've learned a huge lesson lately from going to the local butchers, the difference in the quality/taste versus supermarkets is MASSIVE. Couldn't believe the difference.
    I had got used to getting a bit of meat from the supermarket just for myself for Sundays and it was only when herself was away for a week that I figured I'd be eating more meat while alone so I went to the butchers and stocked up.
    My God. The difference is unreal.

    We grow our own veggies/fruits/nuts so we're only dependent on supermarkets for those from November-March (early may for certain things) too and again the difference in taste is enormous.
    For example tomatoes and cucumbers from the greenhouse are like nothing you can get in supermarkets but it works the same way with meat from butchers versus supermarkets.

    It was on the news today that there will be a shortage of lettuce and courgettes in the UK soon due to wet weather in Europe.
    But you can buy a courgette plant and a plastic pot to grow it in for a combined total of a fiver and it would keep you going til late October.
    We had two plants of them and had to give them away last year coz they grew too fast, likewise lettuce.
    So why keep buying them covered in pesticides when you can grow them plus its good for the kids to see you growing your own food.

    Of course with meat it's different to a degree but you can get infinitely better quality meat and very cheap/fresher fish by just going to a good butcher or fish monger.

    If you're going to eat something, we should be eating better quality. The poxy supermarkets have everyone brainwashed and lazy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    I like my meat (herself is veggie) but I've learned a huge lesson lately from going to the local butchers, the difference in the quality/taste versus supermarkets is MASSIVE. Couldn't believe the difference.
    I had got used to getting a bit of meat from the supermarket just for myself for Sundays and it was only when herself was away for a week that I figured I'd be eating more meat while alone so I went to the butchers and stocked up.
    My God. The difference is unreal.




    Of course with meat it's different to a degree but you can get infinitely better quality meat and very cheap/fresher fish by just going to a good butcher or fish monger.

    If you're going to eat something, we should be eating better quality. The poxy supermarkets have everyone brainwashed and lazy.

    Fully agree. We now only buy meat from a butcher and the quality difference is incredible. The prices are better too.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭One_Of_Shanks


    Fully agree. We now only buy meat from a butcher and the quality difference is incredible. The prices are better too.

    Yeah spot on. The big problem really is people have become accustomed to doing the convenient thing and the meat/fish has to be bought under the same roof as the other stuff.
    But why? Just give a good local butcher and fish-monger a chance for one week and you'd never go back.
    Miles better quality, way fresher and it's actually cheaper.

    You know the way these supermarkets say try us for a week and see the savings....
    Well if everyone took one week and gave the local butcher and fish-monger a chance, they'd find it even cheaper and 3 times nicer.
    Plus it's better for the economy than lining Tescos pockets or whoever


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Why is everyone so short sighted?

    Money, simply put. There's no need to fish or farm so much, but the more you catch and harvest, the bigger the profit. Food is wasted hourly in our society, we don't need what we import/produce.
    -=al=- wrote: »
    A serious answer in After hours? Surely not!

    What is with this mentality that you can only post nonsensical tripe on AH? AH is for threads that don't really have a home elsewhere on boards. It's less strict that other sub forums, but it's not a shít dump for idiocy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,819 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    I'm from a small county and in my experience people don't really care about the environment.(people on boards seem to more than ever in my experience)
    Example The main reason I know why people recycle is because it's cheaper or free compared to sending it to the land fill. It's nothing to do with looking after the environment.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    I'm from a small country and in my experience people don't really care about the environment.(people on boards seem to more than ever in my experience)
    Example The main reason I know why people recycle is because it's cheaper or free compared to sending it to the land fill. It's nothing to do with looking after the environment.

    Cork isn't a country.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,819 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Cork isn't a country.

    Meant county!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭One_Of_Shanks


    Cork isn't a country.

    World GAA champs 2010.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,313 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    For those of you saying all Irish beef is great quality and pretty much organic, that's fair enough, but also look at what farming has done to our environment. We have zero wilderness on this island, none at all. We have I think the lowest forest coverage in Europe. If we carry on eating meat the way we are on this planet, countries like Brazil will end up like Ireland - no wilderness and no trees, and no wildlife.
    Zero wilderness, you obviously don't get outdoors much. Did you ever see a mountain or a bog? Plenty of them up the west coast?


  • Registered Users Posts: 825 ✭✭✭jameorahiely


    For those of you saying all Irish beef is great quality and pretty much organic, that's fair enough, but also look at what farming has done to our environment. We have zero wilderness on this island, none at all. We have I think the lowest forest coverage in Europe. If we carry on eating meat the way we are on this planet, countries like Brazil will end up like Ireland - no wilderness and no trees, and no wildlife.

    They'll have to clear more land to grow vegs so that arguement is invalid


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,906 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    we landfill roughly 30% of our food, this is unsustainable. this is largely to do with our failing economic systems based on fundamentally flawed economic theories and principles. of course its also due to poor end user practices amongst other things.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,906 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    I'm from a small county and in my experience people don't really care about the environment.(people on boards seem to more than ever in my experience)
    Example The main reason I know why people recycle is because it's cheaper or free compared to sending it to the land fill. It's nothing to do with looking after the environment.

    so is the problem with the individuals or with our systems and policies that try deal with these issues?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,819 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    so is the problem with the individuals or with our systems and policies that try deal with these issues?

    A little bit of both to be honest. I'm from a farming background and a lot of the environmental stuff in the farming sector that's come up in last decade or so is generally just laughed at by farmers in my experience!(these are generally intelligent people)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,906 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    A little bit of both to be honest. I'm from a farming background and a lot of the environmental stuff in the farming sector that's come up in last decade or so is generally just laughed at by farmers in my experience!(these are generally intelligent people)

    ive very little experience with farmers but from what i hear and been told, farmers are actually very much environmentally aware and environmentally caring which im sure is very true. it would be hard not to be, you spend all day outside and with nature, something i do as much as possible. i personally think of a lot of environmental policies are more about profiteering and moving the responsibilities of our environmental issues from certain section of society and placing them on the shoulders of others.

    for example our 'polluter pays' principle is effectively a panacea. it effectively puts the responsibilities of these issues onto the end user, but this isnt the full story of these issues. the bigger picture is more complex, for example, in regards general waste, black bin rubbish is material that no longer has a useful use and must be disposed of. many of these materials are problematic and generally are disposed of by land fill or incinerator. both of these methods are also problematic, but my question is, why do we allow these materials to be introduced into the system in the first place and why is it almost the sole responsibility of the end user to deal with it and pay for?

    this has lead me to an idea called 'the creator pays' principle, i.e. those that create these materials also must be held accountable for 'creating' these problematic materials. you will find that these producers are 'almost' exempt from our environmental policies, by doing so, would be seen as 'interfering with the market' :rolleyes:

    apologies for the rant but id be interested in hearing it from a farmer's perspective as these issues are really annoying me now. i have an environmental background to some degree


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,819 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    To answer your question wanderer78. In my experience farmers care about the environment in some ways but not in others many farmers I know have no issues not using sprays etc which are bad for the environment but one thing that they don't really care about is methane gas from cows because they don't really accept the damage that they are doing!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,906 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    To answer your question wanderer78. In my experience farmers care about the environment in some ways but not in others many farmers I know have no issues not using sprays etc which are bad for the environment but one thing that they don't really care about is methane gas from cows because they don't really accept the damage that they are doing!

    thats interesting, thats probably a normal human response though, i.e. most if not all of us care little or not at all, for damage we cant see. im obviously aware of the dangers of things such as methane but we actually cant really see it as such, in a way, its an abstract danger. im sure farmers get fed up of being told what they can and cant do? ive spoken to fishermen about these kind of issues, always interesting to hear their opinions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 182 ✭✭Jodotman


    Only fresh chicken and fresh fish and very seldom a steak. Meat like sausages, packaged meat like ham and luncheon roll are terrible for you.

    Usually cook a chicken a week which does me for sambos!

    I'd be all for banning cow meat and improving public transport to cut down on emissons.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Ever year we ended up with a lamb or a few who ends up being a bit of a pet due to issues with it's mother but if we kept every pet lamb we'd have a field of them by now. We've one pet lamb from a few years ago but the others had to go the mart after a time.

    A true story from my island years... A farmer, tough big guy, raises a lamb, bottle feedsit etc..

    Then of course it must go off to mart with the rest of them.

    So off they all go to the pier

    When this big tough farmer starts to walk away, the lamb starts bleating and crying...

    Yep, big tough farmer turns round, grabs the lamb and takes it back home. as the pier echoes with laughter...

    I had always wanted to raise a lamb and for me it was a deeply moving and wonderful time...

    And then she went off to a local farmer I knew would take good care of her and to have her own lambs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Angel Crow wrote: »
    Well that's exactly my point. That's why it's unjustifiable to consume meat the level that we that we do. I've no problem with anyone hunting for food, but I wonder how many people would actually have the stomach to kill an animal themselves. Much less traumatic to pay someone else to do your dirty work.

    I once got severely reprimanded for saying that after a friendly cow had licked my hand I could never again eat tongue

    It is partly a generational thing. I grew up in the 40s and 50s when meat was a luxury. And cheap cuts were all around In Yrks, they call it " hazlitt" or face.. saw on the food forum a query re beef cheeks.. these are now a luxury gourmet item.

    On eg island farms as here, a family would raise a pig and all except the tail and the grunt would be eaten.

    I could never ever go back to eating meat. Have occasionally bought eg a cottage pie but the dog invariably gets it....same with ready meals. Love the potatoes and vegetables but share the meat with the critters.

    It is personal choice. wonder why so defensive on it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    For those of you saying all Irish beef is great quality and pretty much organic, that's fair enough, but also look at what farming has done to our environment. We have zero wilderness on this island, none at all. We have I think the lowest forest coverage in Europe. If we carry on eating meat the way we are on this planet, countries like Brazil will end up like Ireland - no wilderness and no trees, and no wildlife.

    Where do you live that you can say that? I have wilderness on my doorstep.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    To answer your question wanderer78. In my experience farmers care about the environment in some ways but not in others many farmers I know have no issues not using sprays etc which are bad for the environment but one thing that they don't really care about is methane gas from cows because they don't really accept the damage that they are doing!

    and slurry ! Liberally spread and sprayed ...and yes, weedkillers...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,819 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Graces7 wrote: »
    A true story from my island years... A farmer, tough big guy, raises a lamb, bottle feedsit etc..

    Then of course it must go off to mart with the rest of them.

    So off they all go to the pier

    When this big tough farmer starts to walk away, the lamb starts bleating and crying...

    Yep, big tough farmer turns round, grabs the lamb and takes it back home. as the pier echoes with laughter...

    I had always wanted to raise a lamb and for me it was a deeply moving and wonderful time...

    And then she went off to a local farmer I knew would take good care of her and to have her own lambs.

    It's fine for that big tough farmer to do it with one lamb but he couldn't do it with several lambs. He could very easily end up with a field of several rams and this wouldn't be fun.
    It's lovely raising a lamb by hand but when you've a lot of sheep/lambs to look after they soon loose the novelty.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,891 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    Humans are omnivores and eat meat and vegetables/cereals. There is archaeological evidence that switching to a meat based diet led to the evolution of bigger brains

    BUt I do think we eat too much meat in the west, especially red meat. We could all probably cut down on meat consumption but personally I,would not go vegetarian.


  • Posts: 24,714 [Deleted User]


    Graces7 wrote: »
    and slurry ! Liberally spread and sprayed ...and yes, weedkillers...

    Slurry is a 100% natural fertiliser and of course they use weed killer or the place would be wild with unwanted and nutrient consuming crap growing in fields and in crops.

    Not eating meat is unnatural for humans and just because with a lot of effort it is possible to manage without meat is not a reason to not eat it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,313 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    Graces7 wrote: »
    and slurry ! Liberally spread and sprayed ...and yes, weedkillers...

    Do you know that slurry is recycled organic matter?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,510 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Everyone knows climate change is made up by lefty liberal muslim abortionists. We should eat more meat, particularly pork and pork products.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭323


    To answer your question wanderer78. In my experience farmers care about the environment in some ways but not in others many farmers I know have no issues not using sprays etc which are bad for the environment but one thing that they don't really care about is methane gas from cows because they don't really accept the damage that they are doing!

    None too bothered about shooting animals and fowl with antibiotics from birth.

    Give up meat. Not a chance.

    But wouldn't miss the processed sausage and bacon ****e OP mentioned.
    Eat a lot less meat than seems normal for most nowadays. 70% of the meat we do eat, steak, stews, mince,sausage burger, all venison/game shot by myself or friends. No chemical crap or antibiotics

    “Follow the trend lines, not the headlines,”



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 61 ✭✭Angel Crow



    Not eating meat is unnatural for humans and just because with a lot of effort it is possible to manage without meat is not a reason to not eat it.

    Not consuming meat has zero negative effects on a human and takes no extra effort. By all means eat meat, but to label vegetarianism as unnatural is completely false.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,313 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    323 wrote: »
    None too bothered about shooting animals and fowl with antibiotics from birth.

    Give up meat. Not a chance.

    But wouldn't miss the processed sausage and bacon ****e OP mentioned.
    Eat a lot less meat than seems normal for most nowadays. 70% of the meat we do eat, steak, stews, mince,sausage burger, all venison/game shot by myself or friends. No chemical crap or antibiotics

    You need to do a bit more research on Irish farming instead of relying on YouTube videos.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,110 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Angel Crow wrote: »
    Not consuming meat has zero negative effects on a human and takes no extra effort. By all means eat meat, but to label vegetarianism as unnatural is completely false.

    Vegitarianism is unnatural. There has never been a human population with a paleolithic lifestyle that didn't get most of it's nutrition from non-plant sources.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,082 ✭✭✭trashcan


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    ive very little experience with farmers but from what i hear and been told, farmers are actually very much environmentally aware and environmentally caring which im sure is very true. it would be hard not to be, you spend all day outside and with nature, something i do as much as possible. i personally think of a lot of environmental policies are more about profiteering and moving the responsibilities of our environmental issues from certain section of society and placing them on the shoulders of others.

    for example our 'polluter pays' principle is effectively a panacea. it effectively puts the responsibilities of these issues onto the end user, but this isnt the full story of these issues. the bigger picture is more complex, for example, in regards general waste, black bin rubbish is material that no longer has a useful use and must be disposed of. many of these materials are problematic and generally are disposed of by land fill or incinerator. both of these methods are also problematic, but my question is, why do we allow these materials to be introduced into the system in the first place and why is it almost the sole responsibility of the end user to deal with it and pay for?

    this has lead me to an idea called 'the creator pays' principle, i.e. those that create these materials also must be held accountable for 'creating' these problematic materials. you will find that these producers are 'almost' exempt from our environmental policies, by doing so, would be seen as 'interfering with the market' :rolleyes:

    apologies for the rant but id be interested in hearing it from a farmer's perspective as these issues are really annoying me now. i have an environmental background to some degree

    That's an excellent point. Packaging of food is something that really gets me. Vegetables packed in trays wrapped in plastic. There's no need for it and it's just creating waste.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,819 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    trashcan wrote: »
    That's an excellent point. Packaging of food is something that really gets me. Vegetables packed in trays wrapped in plastic. There's no need for it and it's just creating waste.

    I did a little bit of work in a supermarket and I was in deliveries and from speaking to the drivers and staff they'd never buy loose vegetables from a supermarket!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 61 ✭✭Angel Crow


    cnocbui wrote: »
    Vegitarianism is unnatural. There has never been a human population with a paleolithic lifestyle that didn't get most of it's nutrition from non-plant sources.

    There's plenty of evidence of ancient tribes that lived solely on a vegetarian diet. It's also debatable if people got most of their nutrition from meat, as veg and fruit was far more readily available. You can't suffer from a vegetarian diet. To say otherwise is implying vegetables are only useful when combined with meat, which makes no sense.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,313 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    I did a little bit of work in a supermarket and I was in deliveries and from speaking to the drivers and staff they'd never buy loose vegetables from a supermarket!

    Why so?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,819 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Angel Crow wrote: »
    Well that's exactly my point. That's why it's unjustifiable to consume meat the level that we that we do. I've no problem with anyone hunting for food, but I wonder how many people would actually have the stomach to kill an animal themselves. Much less traumatic to pay someone else to do your dirty work.

    I'd have no problem with killing an animal and eating it if I had. We've done it with chickens in the past and anybody I know most from a farming background would be the same. Lots of farmers I know pick there best looking cow and send it to the butchers to be cut up for them because they've haven't the appropriate knives or places to hang the meat!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,819 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Sam Kade wrote: »
    Why so?

    Mainly vermin running around the place!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 61 ✭✭Angel Crow


    I'd have no problem with killing an animal and eating it if I had. We've done it with chickens in the past and anybody I know most from a farming background would be the same. Lots of farmers I know pick there best looking cow and send it to the butchers to be cut up for them because they've haven't the appropriate knives or places to hang the meat!
    Everyone must be the same so.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,819 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Angel Crow wrote: »
    Everyone must be the same so.

    In speaking about farmers in general and if they had issues regarding eating meat chances are they wouldn't be farmers!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 61 ✭✭Angel Crow


    In speaking about farmers in general and if they had issues regarding eating meat chances are they wouldn't be farmers!

    Why are you talking about farmers?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,110 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Angel Crow wrote: »
    There's plenty of evidence of ancient tribes that lived solely on a vegetarian diet. It's also debatable if people got most of their nutrition from meat, as veg and fruit was far more readily available. You can't suffer from a vegetarian diet. To say otherwise is implying vegetables are only useful when combined with meat, which makes no sense.

    Have you got any links to support that assertion that multiple paleolithic communities were vegetarians?

    You have it around backwards. Plenty of evidence that vegetarian diets can be nutritionally inadequate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,819 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Angel Crow wrote: »
    Why are you talking about farmers?

    I must have misunderstood your earlier post about people killing animals for food because generally it's farmers who keep animals and they no problem doing the dirty work if they had to in my experience.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 61 ✭✭Angel Crow


    cnocbui wrote: »
    Have you got any links to support that assertion that multiple paleolithic communities were vegetarians?

    You have it around backwards. Plenty of evidence that vegetarian diets can be nutritionally inadequate.

    Why are paleolithic communities the benchmark for what's deemed natural? Are rape and murder natural?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,693 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    cnocbui wrote: »
    Plenty of evidence that vegetarian diets can be nutritionally inadequate.
    Any diet can be nutritionally inadequate. Any diet can be nutritionally adequate too.

    What the body gets from meat can still be gotten without it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Angel Crow wrote: »
    There's plenty of evidence of ancient tribes that lived solely on a vegetarian diet. It's also debatable if people got most of their nutrition from meat, as veg and fruit was far more readily available. You can't suffer from a vegetarian diet. To say otherwise is implying vegetables are only useful when combined with meat, which makes no sense.

    You've touched on one of my fields of study. What "ancient tribes" were vegetarian? Pre cultivation vegetable and fruit sources were neither abundant nor constant.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 61 ✭✭Angel Crow


    I must have misunderstood your earlier post about people killing animals for food because generally it's farmers who keep animals and they no problem doing the dirty work if they had to in my experience.

    I was saying that the modern consumer would most likely find it gross, upsetting or traumatic to slaughter themselves. The meat industry relies on delegation and an out of sight out of mind approach.

    I'm sure when pushed people would kill an animal to survive but that has no relevance to our modern society, neither do the activities of cavemen.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,988 ✭✭✭jacksie66


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 61 ✭✭Angel Crow


    You've touched on one of my fields of study. What "ancient tribes" were vegetarian? Pre cultivation vegetable and fruit sources were neither abundant nor constant.

    Quick Google will sort that. Your field of study should also tell you that veg and fruit sources would have varied dramatically in different parts of the world.


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