Belmond Grand Hibernian

GM228 · 13-05-2019 2:33pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Going via Thurles to keep train right way round?

Trains can be signalled to Limerick from Cork via Junction or just BGH cannot be?

Any train can be signalled direct, but the Belmond must go via Thurles or the train will be turned the wrong way round when it gets to Heuston.

Del.Monte · 13-07-2019 8:58pm

The Belmond train was down to Rosslare again this afternoon - didn't appear to have been any passengers unless they disembarked en route?

GM228 · 13-07-2019 9:07pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

The Belmond train was down to Rosslare again this afternoon - didn't appear to have been any passengers unless they disembarked en route?

Disembark at Wexford and back on in Gorey.

tabbey · 14-07-2019 2:59pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

The Belmond train was down to Rosslare again this afternoon - didn't appear to have been any passengers unless they disembarked en route?

Disappointed to have missed that. It would be great if some knowledgeable person could let us know in advance, especially in this weekend's great weather.
I suppose I should look out for when there is work closing the northern line.

Jamie2k9 · 14-07-2019 3:11pm

tabbey wrote: »

Disappointed to have missed that. It would be great if some knowledgeable person could let us know in advance, especially in this weekend's great weather.
I suppose I should look out for when there is work closing the northern line.

Belfast line closed for around a month from 27th, this will operate Saturdays instead unless there is altered schedules.

Del.Monte · 24-11-2020 11:07pm

Word on the street tonight is that Belmond are to cease their Irish operations permanently. Does anyone have reliable news?

91wx763 · 24-11-2020 11:38pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Word on the street tonight is that Belmond are to cease their Irish operations permanently. Does anyone have reliable news?

Much discussion here https://www.facebook.com/groups/171953576291342

And "the wanderer" has a piece on his website https://thewandererphotos.smugmug.com/Belmond-Grand-Hibernian?fbclid=IwAR2QEvfGnvbNs4omurUHZHGHT9BtGYVCkv9nroSI_ocZ4JTGet-skOt7r3w

dublinman1990 · 25-11-2020 2:39am

I only seen that train once while I was on a DART to Dublin. And now Covid has ruined Belmond's short career on Ireland's rails for good.

It couldn't get any worse for our tourism sector. The attractions & hotels that were very much included on it's rail tours are certainly going to feel the effects of this depressing news for a long time to come. It's a huge loss to their business within the tourism sector because it will be very hard to get those kinds of numbers to come into these places again even if Covid has subsided for good due to the vaccine coming out next year.

I suppose all of the locations included on this sleeper train will be disappointed that the train won't be running in 2021 at all if the vaccine comes out too slowly for those who have already pre-booked their stay on the train at any point before the next rail tours takes place between April to early May 2021. I suppose if all of those people have relatives of theirs who were affected by Covid-19 this year in actually having the virus itself & currently going through the recovery from it; it would be pointless in running the train for them in the 1st place with no other customers coming into replace their bookings.

loyatemu · 25-11-2020 11:44am

surprising if it was making money in previous years (was it?) - how much can it cost to lay up some carriages?

goingnowhere · 25-11-2020 11:56am

It was sold out on almost all trips in 2019 so you have to assume it was profitable.

It was targeting a very specific type of traveler, very deep pockets. With travel shutdown and no sight in end and a large portion of the business from the US 2021 is a wipe out. You are then out of 2 full years revenue.

Irish Rail is charging rent to park and secure the set in Inchicore. Given the amount of stuff that got vandalised and torched in Inchicore over the years you can bet it ain't cheap to ensure security.

Effects · 01-12-2020 7:05pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

Given the amount of stuff that got vandalised and torched in Inchicore over the years you can bet it ain't cheap to ensure security.

Have scumbags actually set fire to trains there?

goingnowhere · 01-12-2020 7:51pm

The carriage shed burned down...

Effects · 01-12-2020 8:02pm

Accidentally, or deliberate?

Del.Monte · 09-12-2020 1:09pm

News this morning - Perchance it is not dead but sleepeth?

https://www.facebook.com/grandhibernian/

tabbey · 09-12-2020 11:46pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

News this morning - Perchance it is not dead but sleepeth?

https://www.facebook.com/grandhibernian/

Let's hope that when it resumes, it will regularly traverse the Wexford line, by far the most scenic route in the country.

Del.Monte · 10-12-2020 12:31am

And, of course, if the daft greenway proposal for Rosslare/Waterford was binned the Belmond train could reach Waterford via the South Wexford line - it wouldn't be the only operator interested in using the route either.

Jamie2k9 · 10-12-2020 1:56pm

91wx763 wrote: »

Much discussion here https://www.facebook.com/groups/171953576291342

It was good railway group at the start. Felt a bit of a clique started and moderation was selective so I left before getting kicked out.

News this morning - Perchance it is not dead but sleepeth?

https://www.facebook.com/grandhibernian/

Company is carrying big losses and refurbishing a relatively new train is odd.

Vic_08 · 10-12-2020 5:29pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

And, of course, if the daft greenway proposal for Rosslare/Waterford was binned the Belmond train could reach Waterford via the South Wexford line - it wouldn't be the only operator interested in using the route either.

Go on then, which other operator is interested in using the south Wexford line and are they interested enough to pay the running costs?

Vic_08 · 10-12-2020 5:34pm

Belmond facebook page wrote:

Whilst global travel restrictions continue to limit international visitors to Ireland, Belmond has decided not to resume this train operation in its current form and location. The train will undergo exciting renovation works throughout 2021 and we are looking forward to sharing more news in due course.
Belmond Grand Hibernian

An odd wording, what location other than it's current can it operate in?

My first thought when this topic surfaced was that the train is much newer than their UK stock, were the Irish service withdrawn then it may well end up replacing some of their Mk1/2 UK carriages.

goingnowhere · 10-12-2020 5:52pm

The challenge they face is they have a very niche product and have to charge a huge fare as they can only carry a limited number and only a limited pool of customers to draw on.

They cannot run the train as a day train in the way Irish Rail ran the executive train as onboard seating is very limited. So no trips to the Wexford Opera, no all in offering for Six Nations etc. This was pointed out before they committed as an off season revenue opportunity.

They are also stuck as there are no steam locomotives capable of hauling a Mk3 set and weight wise we don't have any big engines left and none bar Meadhbh have a chance out of Cork (~360 tons) and thats a fantasy to start with, so another revenue angle gone.

It is a Mk3 so would be trivial to get certified in the UK despite the modifications. There are a lot of elderly Mk1 and Mk2 running in the UK.

The interior decor is reasonably neutral but mostly Irish materials so would require a change to meet the tastes of the UK.

Isambard · 11-12-2020 10:00am

they can always refit it again to carry more passengers and use it as a daytime train.

I can't see sleeping in a siding somewhere being very popular with clients who came to see Ireland and may want to explore somewhere more exciting than Charleville Station car park.

Exclusive transport between city centre 5 star hotels might work better and they'd only need 5 or 6 coaches.

odyssey06 · 11-12-2020 10:24am

Could they refocus it with more dining options... lunch and scenic tour during the day, then clear out and get a different set of customers in for a gourmet dinner and overnight stay (or weekend)?
I have seen similar train trips on TV in the States.

goingnowhere · 11-12-2020 10:38am

odyssey06 wrote: »

Could they refocus it with more dining options... lunch and scenic tour during the day, then clear out and get a different set of customers in for a gourmet dinner and overnight stay (or weekend)?
I have seen similar train trips on TV in the States.

See my post above, they don't have the seating capacity to make it viable as a day train.

They did hold back a single Mk3 coach so they could rebuild that to a day coach with more traditional 2+1 seating, 7161 the original executive coach (which is very similar to the Belmond coach with the bar) has been handed over the to RPSI

Isambard · 11-12-2020 10:42am

goingnowhere wrote: »

See my post above, they don't have the seating capacity to make it viable as a day train.

They did hold back a single Mk3 coach so they could rebuild that to a day coach with more traditional 2+1 seating, 7161 the original executive coach (which is very similar to the Belmond coach with the bar) has been handed over the to RPSI

see my post above, they can re-fit it....

Del.Monte · 11-12-2020 11:14am

This is part of an email from Belmond that I received today in response to a query about future plans. Sadly, it doesn't throw much light on the matter and certainly would seem to indicate that these plans may include relocating the rolling stock to another country.

As such, whilst global travel restrictions continue to limit international visitors to Ireland, we have decided not to resume the operation of Belmond Grand Hibernian.
The train will undergo renovation works throughout 2021 and management will be reviewing potential new and alternative uses for this exquisite train during this time.

We are extremely sorry for any disappointment this news may cause. While it is too early to confirm any details about when and where we will be re-launching our new train service, we would be very happy to keep you informed as we know more.

Del.Monte · 19-02-2021 12:50am

And that's it, the Belmond dream is over: https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/travel/ireland/end-of-the-line-for-ireland-s-luxury-sleeper-train-1.4488644?mode=amp

The level of sneering from the know-it-all, lager swilling 'so called' railway enthusiasts on FB tonight is truly sickening. I'm so glad to be away from all that ****e now.

Vic_08 · 19-02-2021 3:03am

Del.Monte wrote: »

And that's it, the Belmond dream is over: https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/travel/ireland/end-of-the-line-for-ireland-s-luxury-sleeper-train-1.4488644?mode=amp

The level of sneering from the know-it-all, lager swilling 'so called' railway enthusiasts on FB tonight is truly sickening. I'm so glad to be away from all that ****e now.

Covid seems like a slightly suspect reason, tourism is dead across Europe, not specifically Ireland, no reason to believe demand will return lower here than anywhere else.

Could it be that the service wasn't doing the numbers before covid?

Either way, anyone taking pleasure in it's demise is an idiot, people will have lost jobs and the economy will be (a little) worse off.

goingnowhere · 19-02-2021 10:42am

Sad to see them go, got to admire the risk they took to get it up and running. They achieved something no one thought possible. They didn't get everything they wanted as Portrush was not accessible as a destination due platform length issues. Irish Rail's track access charges are claimed to be double the EU norm which doesn't help. The fact Belmond didn't go with push pull increased costs as well.

But it did work, they had week after week of sold out cabins. All ensuite as well, you don't get on the Orient Express

Business is about returns, and if they think the can make more cash somewhere else then thats the plan.Be extremely easy to move the train to the UK, swap the bogies and thats pretty much it as the train was certified for NI, and is a Mk3 running in the UK would trivial. Equally Mk3 coaches have run in Denmark.

91wx763 · 19-02-2021 10:53am

The ridiculous journalism from what perceives itself as the nation's premier newspaper is amazing !!!

They were originally built by British Rail for CIÉ, from 1980 to 1989, and were withdrawn from service in 1989.

GT89 · 19-02-2021 10:53am

So I'm guessing the Mark IIIs used for this will be scrapped or parked up in a siding for the next 10 year to rot

Belmond Grand Hibernian

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