Marathon Improvers Thread.

Wottle · 23-06-2017 12:10pm

Hadd is fantastic, I used it for my half marathon PB back in 2012 and that was despite no quality running in last 3/4 weeks due to calf trouble.
It's very disciplined stuff and think I'm lacking that now but I've definitely kept elements with regards to heart rate work. Be prepared to loose your 5k speed if following Hadd but the goal is the marathon.

Murph_D · 23-06-2017 1:40pm

Wottle wrote: »

Hadd is fantastic, I used it for my half marathon PB back in 2012 and that was despite no quality running in last 3/4 weeks due to calf trouble.
It's very disciplined stuff and think I'm lacking that now but I've definitely kept elements with regards to heart rate work. Be prepared to loose your 5k speed if following Hadd but the goal is the marathon.

What is that HM PB, as a matter of interest? And how much did you knock off?

Wottle · 23-06-2017 2:02pm

Murph_D wrote: »

What is that HM PB, as a matter of interest? And how much did you knock off?

1:38:07 from Berlin 2012, about 5 minutes knocked off.

Johnny_Fontane · 23-06-2017 3:43pm

Entering into my second marathon cycle, and going to do the same one I did as last time. Ran 3.36 in Feb, looking to stay with the 3.30 pacers in Dublin. It worked last time, why change!

just going to sprinkle in more speed work.

Testosterscone · 23-06-2017 4:18pm

Murph_D wrote: »

How are other marathon improvers doing with the perennial problem of pace drop-off? I used to think this was not a big issue for me as my marathon times lined up quite well with shorter race times, but over time my shorter times have improved, to the extent that my marathon PB (3:28) is now way off what is 'predicted' by my 5k time (20:21). I know calculators are supposed to be taken with the proverbial grain of salt, but perhaps less so over time, as one gets more experienced.

How do your times line up, and what has been the most important training element for developing speed endurance? Long tempo runs? Long runs 'with stuff'? Diet? Cross training? Something else? All of the above?

FWIW going into my second marathon this year with almost 12 months between them I spent majority of time in between working on weaknesses without letting the mileage drop.

I know calculators can be taken with a pinch of salt by some but I think if you are aerobically sound then they can actually be pretty good indicators.

I would say if you are focusing on shorter distances (5k-HM) in the off season then have these determine your goal but be realistic

Look at the calculator predictions you might have over 5k,5m,10k,HM. This will give you a possible range depending on your level (if there is a major drop off somewhere this shows where you may need to spend a bit of time attending to)

If you are able to hit 3 out of four times in around the same predicted marathon time you now have a base line target to work towards. If your predictions are dramatically slower as you go up in distance perhaps you need another block before your next marathon cycle.

FWIW my calculator times from races this year between 1500m and 10 mile are all within 4 minutes of each other (10k and 10 mile being small outliers showing still a bit to be done aerobically but expect this to come with marathon work giving the small time range)

In terms of the key ingredients; diet will lead to consistency so its essential, doesn't have to be perfect but it will go a long way to keeping the energy levels up and have you not under recovered risking injury and illness

aside from that consistency, good solid mileage block and good training stimulus once or twice a week can go a long way. I wouldn't get too bogged down on the details more just focusing on good variety and getting out of your comfort zone.

Murph_D · 23-06-2017 7:12pm

Wottle wrote: »

1:38:07 from Berlin 2012, about 5 minutes knocked off.

Good stuff. I had a similar result 1:37:xx with Pfitzinger's Faster Road Running method.

kin9pin · 23-06-2017 8:24pm

Murph_D wrote: »

How are other marathon improvers doing with the perennial problem of pace drop-off? I used to think this was not a big issue for me as my marathon times lined up quite well with shorter race times, but over time my shorter times have improved, to the extent that my marathon PB (3:28) is now way off what is 'predicted' by my 5k time (20:21). I know calculators are supposed to be taken with the proverbial grain of salt, but perhaps less so over time, as one gets more experienced.

How do your times line up, and what has been the most important training element for developing speed endurance? Long tempo runs? Long runs 'with stuff'? Diet? Cross training? Something else? All of the above?

I've logged my times below and the predicted marathon times from JD and McMillan. Not too sure what it shows except that that I need to work on my endurance. My HM time seems to match up quite well to the 5m-10m times.

Distance|PB|PB Date|Marathon: Jack Daniels|Marathon: McMillan|HM: McMillan
5K |21:46|3 Dec 16|3:28:00|3:32:06|1:40:47|
5M |37:53|29 Jan 17|3:39:22|3:42:37|1:45:47|
10K |48:38|22 May 16|3:43:44|3:48:10|1:48:25|
10M |1:21:38|20 Aug 16|3:46:00|3:49:09|1:48:53|
HM |1:46:53|19 Mar 17|3:41:32|3:44:56||

denis b · 23-06-2017 8:38pm

Murph_D wrote: »

How are other marathon improvers doing with the perennial problem of pace drop-off? I used to think this was not a big issue for me as my marathon times lined up quite well with shorter race times, but over time my shorter times have improved, to the extent that my marathon PB (3:28) is now way off what is 'predicted' by my 5k time (20:21). I know calculators are supposed to be taken with the proverbial grain of salt, but perhaps less so over time, as one gets more experienced.

How do your times line up, and what has been the most important training element for developing speed endurance? Long tempo runs? Long runs 'with stuff'? Diet? Cross training? Something else? All of the above?

Pace Drop Off
Well I would certainly fall into the category, at this stage, of someone who runs a better shorter distance. My;

5km (20:32) March 2017
10km (43:41) April 2017

would suggest 3:17 and 3:21 respectively for the marathon. However, I am currently 89 kgs (90 kgs: avg. weight over the last 2 years) and will be dropping another 4kgs before end of July. I think that my weight is certainly an issue for pace drop off over longer distances.

1/2 Marathon 1:45:11 Sept 2015
Marathon 3:54:11 Oct 2015.

However I now have a good few more miles under my belt so I am not going to predict this years 10 miles, 1/2 and Marathon over my past times. My current 10km time will be a good guide for the 10mls in August and so on.

Race Target Times
I tend to be conservative with targets but then I usually exceed them. That works for me. I feel that I am only in a build phase and that there will be other races. I will push hard but not that hard that I might jeopardise my targets. This would be particularly true of longer distances where I have less experience. Still only finding my feet.

Heat
I heat up very quickly so have to allow for that. Have radically changed clothing and water intake and will be experimenting with salt chews etc this summer

Nutrition
Giving this attention for the first time in a long time. Not a huge eater but better quality food is needed.

Battery Kinzie · 23-06-2017 9:03pm

Who are these people who are averaging faster than the calculator predicts that are making the calculator predict what it predicts?

denis b · 23-06-2017 9:17pm

Battery Kinzie wrote: »

Who are these people who are averaging faster than the calculator predicts that are making the calculator predict what it predicts?

:D:D but still a very valid question. It would appear, well at least anecdotally, to be the most abnormal of normal distribution curves. Maybe Boards is the outlier :eek:

The Black Oil · 24-06-2017 5:55pm

On week 2 of the base plan at the moment. Looking ahead to the intermediate plan, the weekend segment is currently as follows.

Saturday Sunday
60 min very easy 2 hour easy
60 min very easy 70 min progression (30/20/20- very easy/easy/moderate)
60 min moderate 2 hr 15 easy
60 min very easy 90 min progression (30 easy/moderate/tempo)
60 min moderate 2 hr 30 easy
60 min very easy 75 min moderate
60 min moderate 2hr 15 easy
60 min very easy 90 min progression (30 easy/moderate/tempo)
60 min moderate 2 hr 30 easy
60 min very easy 75 min tempo
60 min moderate 3 hour easy
50 min very easy 2 hours easy
40 min very easy 75 min easy
15 min recovery Race

If I were to join the club for LSRs on Sundays, should I keep Saturday as they are (as above), and replace the Sunday content with the club's routines? Or, how about swapping the Saturday and Sundays around - might be a shame to lose out on some of the progressions on Sun.

Instead it could be something like this.

Saturday |Sunday
2 hour easy |LSR - club
70 min progression (30/20/20- very easy/easy/moderate) |LSR - club
2 hr 15 easy |LSR - club
90 min progression (30 easy/moderate/tempo) |LSR - club
2 hr 30 easy |LSR - club
75 min moderate |LSR - club
2hr 15 easy |LSR - club
90 min progression (30 easy/moderate/tempo) |LSR - club
2 hr 30 easy |LSR - club
75 min tempo |LSR - club
3 hour easy |LSR - club
2 hours easy |LSR - club
75 min easy |LSR - club
15 recovery|Race

Am away for a few days in Sept, don't know my schedule yet. Will be travelling how much time I'll have free. A few early am starts my be in order. :cool:

adrian522 · 25-06-2017 12:25pm

I'd leave Saturday as it is and incorporate the Sunday run into your club run, for example if the club do 90 mins on Sunday you might have to do 30 mins at the start or end in week 1 or mix up the pace on the progression days. Maybe rope someone else into the same plan and run with them.

Spirogyra · 25-06-2017 1:38pm

I'm already at 17 miles, registered for the Dublin Marathon, what can I do in the meantime ?

17 miles with 4 months to go.... I could probably do it next week if I needed to....

Singer · 25-06-2017 2:00pm

Spirogyra wrote: »

I'm already at 17 miles, registered for the Dublin Marathon, what can I do in the meantime ? 17 miles with 4 months to go.... I could probably do it next week if I needed to....

You can make the longer runs more interesting - speed up towards the end, insert marathon paced miles, run on hillier terrain...

Spirogyra · 25-06-2017 2:04pm

I do think I need a few goals before Dublin, ok I can increase midweek mileage but think I need a few races for motivation. Doing a 5 mile Friday night. Did Streets of Galway last year, but didn't have a great experience staying overnight.....

boydkev · 27-06-2017 1:50pm

Plan was to start with the P&D 55 18 Week plan this monday but will have to delay for a week due to final treatments for Peroneal tendinopathy and being given the all clear to continue. I have still been running during the treatment but shorter runs 4-9 miles. So a new direction with regard to strength and conditioning and now back on track.

So looking at the pacing for the the plan mentioned. Not looking forward to the V02 Sessions.
MARATHON PACE 7.59
VO2 Max 6.25
L.T. Pace 7.2
LSR 20% (1-2 mi) 9.36
LSR 10% 8.48

Itziger · 27-06-2017 2:13pm

boydkev wrote: »

Plan was to start with the P&D 55 18 Week plan this monday but will have to delay for a week due to final treatments for Peroneal tendinopathy and being given the all clear to continue. I have still been running during the treatment but shorter runs 4-9 miles. So a new direction with regard to strength and conditioning and now back on track.

So looking at the pacing for the the plan mentioned. Not looking forward to the V02 Sessions.
MARATHON PACE 7.59
VO2 Max 6.25
L.T. Pace 7.2
LSR 20% (1-2 mi) 9.36
LSR 10% 8.48

'Kev, the way I try to approach hard sessions like that is a)tell yourself it's not another boring med/long run and b)tell yourself that this is where the real gains are made. This is what will hopefully get you your time on the day, not the easy 10 miler of yesterday or tomorrow. So embrace the tough stuff!

The Black Oil · 27-06-2017 10:02pm

adrian522 wrote: »

I'd leave Saturday as it is and incorporate the Sunday run into your club run, for example if the club do 90 mins on Sunday you might have to do 30 mins at the start or end in week 1 or mix up the pace on the progression days. Maybe rope someone else into the same plan and run with them.

The club folks are currently at 11-13 miles on their LSRs - rehearsing for the Half, afail. If I were to join in a few weeks they'd be a further along in distance by that stage (I presume) - not something I'd worry about. Some options 1) keep Saturday as is, Sunday with the club. 2) Saturday as is, Sunday with club, but only every second week or so, for easy runs. I could do the moderate/progressions by myself. Or perhaps another option. 3) Take the Sunday from the intermediate plan, do it on Friday instead, Sat as is, Sun - club LSR. Probably overthinking this. :cool:

Spirogyra · 28-06-2017 12:15pm

How does one decide whether to make one's longest run 20 or 22 miles ?. Does one normally, or at what point should an lsr be at marathon pace ?.

adrian522 · 28-06-2017 12:37pm

I've always gone to 22 miles but there is a school of thought that says the benefits no longer outweigh the risks once you go past 3 hours in your long run. So its a personal choice and I guess you'll know how the body is holding up and how long you are taking to recover from 17,18, 20 mile runs.

I don't think a LSR should ever be completely at MP, maybe some MP miles dropped in the middle or at the end but during my long run I don't think I ever did more than 10 miles at MP. I did up to 14 Miles at MP during a mid week run though that was a seperate session to the weekend long run

tailgunner · 28-06-2017 12:55pm

For my first marathon last year, I didn't do any MP miles during the long run. The most I did was a couple of 10 mile runs mid-week with 8 miles at MP. I found these very tough.

As for the longest run question, I did three 20 mile runs in around 3 hours 15 minutes. Felt no need to go any farther, and I doubt I'd have been able for it either, physically or mentally.

I also found that my recovery time from a long run didn't change much, up to around 18 miles. After that, I found I needed an extra day before I was back to "normal" (a relative term during marathon training).

I got on grand with the marathon itself.

EDIT: Thought I was in the novices thread here, sorry.

hot buttered scones · 28-06-2017 12:59pm

adrian522 wrote:

I've always gone to 22 miles but there is a school of thought that says the benefits no longer outweigh the risks once you go past 3 hours in your long run. So its a personal choice and I guess you'll know how the body is holding up and how long you are taking to recover from 17,18, 20 mile runs.

I've done both and personally I think the 22 miles did me more harm than good. I know it's only 2 extra miles but they seemed to take way more out of me. It really is a case of what suits the individual best. I know there's a bit more too it than that too though - on the phone so short posts only!

Singer · 28-06-2017 4:04pm

I did one 22 miler back in my novice days, after having already done two 20 milers. It was a bit ad-hoc, I felt good at around 17 or so so extended the run. I did take it pretty easy over the days afterwards, which suited as it was the week of the half-marathon. So I'd recommend it if you're recovering well from the 20 milers, though I'd be wary of running for too long - I did the 22 miles in 3:15, which is pushing the recommended length of time it's worthwhile to be on your feet.

Last year I did two 22 milers, though the less said about that cycle the better

Kennyg71 · 28-06-2017 5:06pm

I did two 22 milers last year and was a bit to rigid on getting following week sessions done as per plan, instead of taking extra recovery and rescheduling session, ignored warning signs and got injured. I think a lot to be said for not running over three hours when fatigue can cause issues which cannot be recovered from before the race.

denis b · 28-06-2017 7:26pm

Spirogyra wrote: »

How does one decide whether to make one's longest run 20 or 22 miles ?. Does one normally, or at what point should an lsr be at marathon pace ?.

The P&D 18 Week Plan targets MP miles on longer runs as follows:

Week 16 (2nd week of Plan) 13 miles with 8 miles at MP
Week 13 (5th week of Plan) 16 miles with 10 miles at MP
Week 9 (9th week of Plan) 16 miles with 12 miles at MP
Week 5 (13th week of Plan) 18 miles with 14 miles at MP

Hope this helps.

Spirogyra · 03-07-2017 1:59pm

Attended 'Bootcamp' at 6am this morning. I am genuinely one of, sometimes actually the worst performer. I've a weak core and am quite inflexible. But I still feel it helps. I'm probably a far superior runner than most in the room and use it to 'supplement' my running. However I'd still like to be 'better'....

boydkev · 05-07-2017 10:45am

I have a question regarding races during the plan.
I am looking at doing 3 before the Marathon. How do you build these into your LSR that i am supposed to be doing on the sundays.

Local 7k - Plan has 13m w 8 @ MP

Charleville HM - Plan has 17m LSR

Cork/Cobh 15m - Plan has 17m LSR

So should i do warmup with 1-2 miles at LSR pace and then do the race and then do additional mileage after at LSR pace. My plan is to run cork to cobh at MP, But i am wondering what i should run the HM or 7k.

Kennyg71 · 05-07-2017 1:28pm

boydkev wrote: »

I have a question regarding races during the plan.
I am looking at doing 3 before the Marathon. How do you build these into your LSR that i am supposed to be doing on the sundays.

Local 7k - Plan has 13m w 8 @ MP

Charleville HM - Plan has 17m LSR

Cork/Cobh 15m - Plan has 17m LSR

So should i do warmup with 1-2 miles at LSR pace and then do the race and then do additional mileage after at LSR pace. My plan is to run cork to cobh at MP, But i am wondering what i should run the HM or 7k.

If 7k is day before, just run 13m easy next day
I am racing Charleville at HM effort and will adjust week following depending on how I recover, may drop session midweek for easy run. My plan has Race built in though. Race effort more than compensates for 17 LR so wouldn't get to hung up on hitting 17 miles.

Cobh 15M with W/U and Marathon paced effort should be good session, might be little much at 15 miles MP, so if you get on pace in first 3 miles or
so and take relaxed approach to hitting pace may work better.

I know HBS has done P&D so he may have better insight.

hot buttered scones · 05-07-2017 1:30pm

boydkev wrote: »

I have a question regarding races during the plan.
I am looking at doing 3 before the Marathon. How do you build these into your LSR that i am supposed to be doing on the sundays.

Local 7k - Plan has 13m w 8 @ MP

Charleville HM - Plan has 17m LSR

Cork/Cobh 15m - Plan has 17m LSR

So should i do warmup with 1-2 miles at LSR pace and then do the race and then do additional mileage after at LSR pace. My plan is to run cork to cobh at MP, But i am wondering what i should run the HM or 7k.

I'm assuming your following P+D here. I'm just racing Charleville - with a couple of miles either side of warm up and cool down you'll reach the mileage target for the day anyway. As for Cork to Cobh - I think the week before has 18 w 14@MP. So you could do either Charleville or Cork to Cobh at MP in lieu of the 18 w 14@MP maybe?
For the 7k race - is there a 4 miles@LT midweek that week? Could you do the 13w8@MP midweek and do the 7k as the LT session?

boydkev · 05-07-2017 1:44pm

hot buttered scones wrote: »

I'm assuming your following P+D here. I'm just racing Charleville - with a couple of miles either side of warm up and cool down you'll reach the mileage target for the day anyway. As for Cork to Cobh - I think the week before has 18 w 14@MP. So you could do either Charleville or Cork to Cobh at MP in lieu of the 18 w 14@MP maybe?
For the 7k race - is there a 4 miles@LT midweek that week? Could you do the 13w8@MP midweek and do the 7k as the LT session?

I was thinking i could swap one the sunday of the cork to cobh with week before as you have mentioned.
The 7k is this sunday so still early enough in the plan, So i might race it and then get the other miles done after, As i dont think swapping saturday(recover 5 mile) and sunday(13m with 8 @ MP) would work as racing on tired legs.

Am i mad considering doing both Charleville and Cork-Cobh?

hot buttered scones · 05-07-2017 4:23pm

boydkev wrote: »

Am i mad considering doing both Charleville and Cork-Cobh?

Probably if you plan to race them both all out tbh.

ger664 · 05-07-2017 6:12pm

boydkev wrote: »

Am i mad considering doing both Charleville and Cork-Cobh?

Are either of those races your A goal ?

NO THEY ARE NOT.

As I have said before in this thread if you are following P&D there are no races over 10 miles in the plan. So trying to insert them is changing the plans focus and may lead to an increased risk of injury. If Cobh or Charlevillie falls in line with the 14 Mile MP then its a good substitute but DO NOT RACE IT.

boydkev · 06-07-2017 9:42am

ger664 wrote: »

Are either of those races your A goal ?

NO THEY ARE NOT.

As I have said before in this thread if you are following P&D there are no races over 10 miles in the plan. So trying to insert them is changing the plans focus and may lead to an increased risk of injury. If Cobh or Charlevillie falls in line with the 14 Mile MP then its a good substitute but DO NOT RACE IT.

You are right, These races are not my goal.
And thinking about it more i want to stick to a plan as i didn't for last 2 marathons and didn't achieve what i wanted from them.

Spirogyra · 07-07-2017 12:39pm

Did a club training session last night followed by a cardio class at 6 am (ran .8 mile back and forth), that will be 6 day's training this week (3 of them just being 2 miles or 2 miles plus boot-camp/cardio). Up to 6 day's a week though, had been just 3 a month ago

Think the cardio may have been a bit much today but I'll learn for next week

JohnDozer · 11-07-2017 6:10pm

Question for those who might have used P&D previously for Dublin, just really want to get a sense of what tune up races people used. I've done my usual thing of doing an about turn on my plan of choice, and am assuming I will still be on that plan by the time those tune-up races come around...

adrian522 · 11-07-2017 10:44pm

What dates are the races on the plan? You rarely have to look too far for a 10K race over the summer so you should be fine.

JohnDozer · 12-07-2017 6:12am

16th September, 30th September and 14th October. I've looked in the usual places and they are scarce enough. There are some options but they involve quite a bit of travel.

One is obviously Charleville weekend but I'm now debating doing that on the basis of the 15k upper limit and what others have said.

Cork 10 mile is on the 9th September but I'm going to try and avoid moving stuff on the plan unless I absolutely have to.

I was conscious it might be early for some races to be showing up on event calendars so was just sussing out what others have used previously really.

Itziger · 12-07-2017 7:57am

My advice would be, don't get too caught up with the tune-up races side of things. If the plan says 10k or 10 mile race and you can't find one, then go out and do a good hard session instead. Instead of a 10k race you could do T stuff or split 10k pace intervals. Or you could do a fast finish Long Run. Another top type of session is that one that Krusty does a fair bit, mixing M pace with HM pace (approx. definition). I've tried a few of them and they are a good workout alright. Something like W/U and whatever number of miles consisting of 1,000metres of M+600 of HM pace. No rest, just see how far you can go!!

I know that is getting away from the P&D plan but I have come to think that a bit of mix and match is no bad thing. Find a run that is tough but doable, that stretches you but that makes you feel, $hit, that was good!

The advantage of those sessions is that you still won't be flogging the body doing a full race at full speed, cos that just ain't possible in training. At least it should not be.

RayCun · 12-07-2017 10:14am

JohnDozer wrote: »

Question for those who might have used P&D previously for Dublin, just really want to get a sense of what tune up races people used. I've done my usual thing of doing an about turn on my plan of choice, and am assuming I will still be on that plan by the time those tune-up races come around...

I ran the Donadea 10k as my two-weeks-out race, way back when. Doesn't suit your location!

adrian522 · 12-07-2017 10:20am

You could even use a parkrun for the tune up 2 weeks out and just add on a bit yourself. It's about a good hard race effort so 5k with a good hard warmup before should do the trick also.

As the lads have said don't get too hung-up on it. I don't think there is any need to race a half though.

hot buttered scones · 12-07-2017 11:07am

@Johndozer - I couldn't find a race 2 weeks out last year, so I ran a solo time trial, which was not ideal. A parkrun either followed by or preceded by another hard effort would probably do. I've spotted a 10k on September 30th down in Passage East in Waterford. It's on at 2pm so it might do. I'm doing Charleville and have done so before, but the week after is tough. The problem is usually finding races on a Saturday as they all tend to be on Sunday - so I'm thinking a parkrun for October and maybe do a couple of mile repeats afterwards?

Edit: Also wrt the Cork 10 mile - I know it's a week early, but at least it's on Saturday (at 6pm), which means you can do the long run on Sunday afterwards. I won't be doing the long run the day after Charleville. The course is fairly decent too.

hot buttered scones · 12-07-2017 11:08am

Double post

hot buttered scones · 12-07-2017 11:35am

RayCun wrote: »

I ran the Donadea 10k as my two-weeks-out race, way back when. Doesn't suit your location!

It's on at 11am though - I might be able to tie that in with a visit to the outlaws in Dubland. Cheers!

Spirogyra · 13-07-2017 9:53pm

How does one combine XC in September and October with the DCM ?

midweek lsr ?

Van.Bosch · 16-07-2017 6:44pm

Question regarding LSR's or even longer runs like the 10m mid week in P&D.

If you do these early in the morning, how wrecked are you for the rest of the day? I feel shattered, functional but really drained. Possibly to do with not eating right quick enough after but just wondering for those who do the food etc right, how much of an impact does it have?

JohnDozer · 16-07-2017 8:45pm

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Question regarding LSR's or even longer runs like the 10m mid week in P&D.

If you do these early in the morning, how wrecked are you for the rest of the day? I feel shattered, functional but really drained. Possibly to do with not eating right quick enough after but just wondering for those who do the food etc right, how much of an impact does it have?

I'm not going to claim I do the food right! I'm only two weeks into the plan (skipped to week 2 due to a race) so I'm still getting used of the change in routine. I've only just changed to running early mornings so I'm not sure if it's that that's making me tired or the increase in training load. I've also done some of the runs faster than I should have so that didn't help. I do find if I'm working later on the day of running early I'm fine, whereas if it's a Sunday run and I've the opportunity to avoid doing things, I can feel very lazy and lethargic.

What I have found for sure already is if I eat properly in the first hour after the run, I do recover much better and feel less fecked after. Early days to know for sure what's going on I think. Lots of factors feed in to the tiredness, and a little bit of fatigue should be present. Finding the sweet spot is the trick I guess...

annapr · 17-07-2017 8:57am

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Question regarding LSR's or even longer runs like the 10m mid week in P&D.

If you do these early in the morning, how wrecked are you for the rest of the day? I feel shattered, functional but really drained. Possibly to do with not eating right quick enough after but just wondering for those who do the food etc right, how much of an impact does it have?

I've been doing sessions before breakfast and before work... like johndozer says, eating a good breakfast afterwards really helps... experts suggest within 30 min of finishing, important to have carbs and protein.

I do find myself struggling to stay awake in meetings in the afternoon... but that might be more about the content than the fatigue

boydkev · 17-07-2017 3:05pm

I now do my mid week runs before i go in to work (Tue, Wed, Thur), Somedays i do feel that i could fall asleep at my desk in the afternoon and i think it is down to how good a nights sleep i get the night before. I also enjoy the morning runs as there is less traffic and its cooler especially at the moment.

Spirogyra · 17-07-2017 3:29pm

A good nights sleep is a big help, actual sleep preferably....difficult though if one runs in the evening

The Davestator · 17-07-2017 3:38pm

boydkev wrote: »

I now do my mid week runs before i go in to work (Tue, Wed, Thur), Somedays i do feel that i could fall asleep at my desk in the afternoon and i think it is down to how good a nights sleep i get the night before. I also enjoy the morning runs as there is less traffic and its cooler especially at the moment.

Big time - I love getting it done early. I go to bed at 9:30 and asleep by 10 pm though!

Up at 5;45 - Running by 6 am and I'm home from most of my runs by 7 am. Breakfast and on the bike for work by 8 am. I'm then free for the evening to chill

Marathon Improvers Thread.

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