Defection Dilemma - can't move on!

PDN wrote: »

Ah, so this is under the Law of Return I guess? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return

Yes, it's one of the rights one gets.

PDN wrote: »

I imagine that the Palestinians would share that sentiment.

In fairness, for the whole time I was working in Israel, my circle of friends contained Jews and Arabs alike- the Irish just like to see things very black and white. Arabs can win, and I've known many Arabs to be friends with Jews there, they just (both) need to put their political agendas aside. I can't speak on behalf of their political situation because I don't agree with everything that's done on either side. I'm not going there to subjugate or oppress anyone or because I'm a crazy Kananist freak- it's just much easier to live a Jewish lifestyle in a Jewish state.

Nodin wrote: »

And all Jews, be they orthodox, ultra-orthdox, secular, reformed, conservative and non-practicing uniformly observe these things?

Obviously not every single person will be shomer shabbat and keep kosher, but why can't they be allowed the opportunity to do so? Especially as a convert, I intend to keep all of the following, and this is made extremely difficult in Ireland

bluewolf wrote: »

That's why a lot of jewish people here move to the UK at least for a while, there is a large community there.

Moving to the UK is an improvement on Ireland, for sure, but it’s no Israel, and is still very much geared towards Christian-living.

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Mainly I am intrigued by the fact the OP has a user name which indicates Kabbalism.

Is this the particular branch you're interested in?

Actually, when I first started the conversion process, I asked the hazzan (or ‘cantor’, who is the person who sings the service and whatnot) if it was necessary to learn about kabbalism and his answer was “Yeah, sure, go nuts, and while you’re at it, hop back on your magic carpet and fly away” :P – so I’m guessing it doesn’t have too much standing among some Orthodox circles! It’s a really interesting part of Judaism, and pretty complex – they talk about the most minute of details and things which ‘normal’ religion would otherwise gloss over, so it’s a really unique insight. Some Jews are big into it, but others have decided that it’s either too ‘out there’ or has been taken over by the likes of Madonna and has lost its original attraction. Some of it is really fascinating, but other parts are way too tedious and go right over my head, but it’s definitely an interesting aspect of Judaism.

Dades wrote: »

Does that mean they don't follow the 'rules', i.e. the kosher business and Friday/Saturday sabbath rules etc? Doesn't that suggest Israel exists only as a cultural base, rather than a religious one?

No, Israel exists as a place that Jews from all walks of life and from all different levels of observance can have the opportunity to be as religion or as downright atheist as they please. It’s not like an Islamist state where religion is forced on people- it’s take it or leave it, but one needs to cater to those who ARE observant if they’re to be fair. Also, Israel is the home of many Jews who have been really mistreated and persecuted in their countries of origin, and to those who abuse them, their level of religiosity is completely irrelevent.

Dades wrote: »

Since I'm officially a catholic, I must head to the Vatican to see if they can point me in the direction of a nice apartment overlooking St Peter's Square! Or is that not how independent states work?

Because the Vatican is the only place on earth where there is a Catholic majority and the Catholic faith is catered for, is it? Or are you confusing homelands with sites of religious significance?

PDN wrote: »

Do you understand what discrimination means? Discrimination is where different groups of people are treated differently.

If some groups of people (say Christians, Muslims or atheists) are treated one way, but another group (Jews) get preferential treatment than that, by definition, is discrimination.

Then gee whiz, I know a hell of a lot of women who are being discriminated against since they’re given maternity leave and loads of handicapped people also being discriminated against with the providing of ramps- pfft! All this preferential treatment is simply outrageous!

robindch wrote: »

It's sad to hear that you had to resort to shouting down Fisk in Cork.

What basically happened was that he refused to acknowledge that rockets were fired into Israel from Gaza, instead referring to them as ‘little bombs’ and he continually belittled the fact that Israelis suffer in this conflict too. He then went on to compare Israelis to Nazis, which is unfortunately a tactic which is being widely employed and completely abuses the holocaust to serve his own agenda. To me, that’s just pathetic and I find it hard to have any respect for the man.

Nodin wrote: »

...and in fact you've been given more "right to be there" than the Palestinians born there, but who were expelled. Great stuff.

Let’s ignore the fact that in many instances, Arabs sold their land to Jews. Let’s also ignore the fact that you could technically class a number of Jews as being ‘Palestinian’ because they were there before the creation of the state of Israel. Let’s also ignore the fact that these ‘Palestinians born there, but who were expelled’ appear to still be living in Israel and taking up positions in the Knesset (Parliament) and as judges, army commanders and high ranking officials.
Now- much more easy, huh?

Nodin wrote: »

So theres no commitment to "maintaining a jewish majority" by all the major parties or block on the return of Palestinians then....?

A ‘return of the Palestinians’ basically means a complete end to the Jewish state, so it’s obviously not on the cards. Also, may I ask where the ‘Right to Return’ is for the 50% of Israeli Jews who themselves or their family have fled Muslim countries?


To Nodin’s post – Jews not wanting Arabs to live in their neighbourhoods in many instances boils down to the fact that many of the neighbourhoods they’re being rejected from do so because they’re founded on the basis of traditional Jewish values and having non-Jews driving through their area and desecrating the Sabbath basically pisses them off, and this isn’t the kind of community they wish to have. Jews exclude other Jews from living in their areas too because of this- there are many Kibbutzim which will refuse entry to Jews they deem not to be religious enough to live in their area because they want to preserve the character of their neighbourhood. Take from that what you will.
As for relationships between Arabs and Jews- go figure, there are plenty ignorant people out there who simply like to meddle in other peoples’ lives and tell them how to behave.
Obviously when one tries to amalgamate together two different cultures and people with a lot of political animosity, there will be conflict and discrimination- but discrimination against minorities is an issue that pretty much every single country in the world battles with, and in comparison to their neighbours in Egypt and how they’re managing with their Coptic Christian minority, I think Israel is doing pretty damn well for itself.
The issue with Messianic Jews is that they not only try to convert Jews to their religion (and any form of proselytising is illegal in Israel- to or from any religion) but they are known to prey on people who are disadvantaged and vulnerable. Jewish tradition has struggled to survive in exile, so I fully understand why people would be angry at others trying to convert them and force their beliefs on others under the false pretence that this is still ‘Judaism’ within their own homeland. http://www.somethingjewish.co.uk/articles/475_messianic_congregati.htm
As for Bedouins- I highly recommend reading “A Shepherd’s Journey”, written by Bedouin Ishmael Khaldi in which he describes how he went from growing up a poor shepherd living in a tent to becoming one of the highest ranking officials in the Israeli Defence forces, later receiving a position as advisor to the minister of foreign affairs Avigdor Lieberman. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael_Khaldi

recedite wrote: »

LOL - What chance would a muslim from Yemen have?

Seeing as how Yemen considers Israel an enemy state and vise versa, and also the fact that Israelis aren’t allows to enter Yemen (or even anyone with an Israeli stamp on their passport) , this is a no brainer. They might as well wave banners with ‘come blow us up’.

keppler wrote: »

Ok........and you want to become a Jew because????

I love it

On that note, I believe I have had my ORIGINAL question answered (kick Bishop up the ass, or send him a letter, but preferably to try the latter first) and many thanks for all the responses! While I’m sure that some are eager to argue further about Jews and Arabs and whatnot and I’m certain we could easily go back and forth for a dozen pages, I’d rather pass, as I’ve been having this argument for the past 5 years and as one could guess it gets RATHER old VERY fast.