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Heavyweight Boxing

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    #4412
    selectamatic
    Registered Users Posts: 3,898 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    Usyk wasn't outboxed by Bellew for most of the fight.

    Rds1-3 were close as Usyk figured out what Bellew was about. These rounds probably went to Bellew.

    From there on Usyk took over picked him apart and pounced on him when he tired.

    On the Aj point personally I don't think we'll ever see the careless destructive monster AJ in a boxing ring again. It was fine in his early career, just show up smash a lad and job done.

    Now there's too much to lose and the opponents will be just that bit good enough that he'll have something to think about. So all fights will be carefully planned out beforehand.

    No way he goes gung ho and risks gassing against a supremely fit Usyk.

    He'll be the aggressor but it'll be methodical.


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    #4413
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,717 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Same Widler who changed his game plan two weeks ago to fight Ortiz for the second time,

    Yes it ended with a right hand again but he boxed him completely different than the first fight , This time he waited and waited and threw nothing like the volume from the first fight , He had a different "game plan"

    That’s Ortiz. A naturally hard hitting HW...

    I am talking about a blown up CW, who is not a hitter..


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    #4414
    dougm1970
    Registered Users Posts: 1,125 ✭✭✭dougm1970


    walshb wrote: »

    How much thought and time and planning do you need to go in to try knock out a man 30-40 lbs lighter than you?!!!

    lets take the joshua of takem fight....and the wilder of fury fight....

    254 lbs vs 212 lbs

    not much thought and time needed ?


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    #4415
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    walshb wrote: »
    And did Tyson and Lewis have to fret about it? No, they just got in and fought..

    Holyfield was a full HW when he met Tyson. Very close in size..both past it.

    You seem to be implying that the “undisputed” champion of the world, at his peak, and 240-250 lbs needs to wait and see, and come up with a game plan to beat a blown up CW who isn’t at all a puncher...

    If this is what AJ does, then it is kind of pathetic from a fighter point of view...

    I asked can you imagine Lewis or Tyson having to plan and really think before stepping in the ring with Usyk. Pathetic. Both would step in, and destroy him...

    Watched that fight yesterday on youtube ( Holy vs Tyson ) and highlights of ( Tyson vs Lewis )

    The shape of them 3 was phenomenal, ripped muscle, huge traps, thick legs, low body fat, kept going and going at high pace, proper athletes

    Put's all the guys of today to shame, even Joshua/Wilder who are in phenomenal physcial shape but are gasping for air at any decent tempo and they were all well into 30's then

    Some will says peds were rife then and easy to get in shape on dbol, but I think they trained harder as well, the guys today like Whyte/Miller who were on peds still looked like **** on them and are a joke of them

    Always thought Tyson was beaten badly by Lewis, but he gave him serious problems in the 1st few rounds, if he was a little quicker he would have got him out there


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    #4416
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,717 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    dougm1970 wrote: »
    lets take the joshua of takem fight....and the wilder of fury fight....

    254 lbs vs 212 lbs

    not much thought and time needed ?

    Simple shootout that one...

    Who lands heavy first likely the winner..

    But, absolutely yes, little more thought and planning needed. Wilder is a far deadlier and riskier foe compared to Usyk..


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    #4417
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,694 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Usyk has looked very good at CW. He has fought one fight at HW and it was a stinker. He didn't look especially powerful or fast for someone who is meant to be so wonderful. He's a colorful character and I like him but I don't get the fuss in terms of HW. I think Chisora would give him a lot of trouble. What would the top guys do? Hammer him. I see it going badly wrong for him. The one caveat I have is that I fully expected Povetkin to walk through Hunter. Hunter did well, despite looking very vulnerable for lots of periods. A younger Povetkin would have ripped him apart. I don't know if you can say Hunter can take HW power. I think anyone on their game will ko him and that's that. He'd be better off at CW if he wants belts. Usyk didn't get rid of Hunter so I don't think his power will be influential at the big end. I expect that when he eventually gets a go at one of the real contenders then he will look good for 2-3 rounds and then they'll bully him about, get some body shots in and take the legs from him. Then it's a big KO similar to Kahn against Canelo. Canelo is a super boxer and these big guys aren't but Canelo didn't need to be super to get to Kahn. What I thinkUsyk is hoping for is the break up of the belts and then he can pick up a scrap like Charles Martin and he'll have 'done it,' similar to Jones Jr or Haye… beat a crap HW for a belt and 'make history' but hollow enough history. How's that for a rant on the futility of human endeavor?


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    #4418
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,561 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    squinn2912 wrote: »
    Usyk has looked very good at CW. He has fought one fight at HW and it was a stinker. He didn't look especially powerful or fast for someone who is meant to be so wonderful. He's a colorful character and I like him but I don't get the fuss in terms of HW. I think Chisora would give him a lot of trouble. What would the top guys do? Hammer him. I see it going badly wrong for him. The one caveat I have is that I fully expected Povetkin to walk through Hunter. Hunter did well, despite looking very vulnerable for lots of periods. A younger Povetkin would have ripped him apart. I don't know if you can say Hunter can take HW power. I think anyone on their game will ko him and that's that. He'd be better off at CW if he wants belts. Usyk didn't get rid of Hunter so I don't think his power will be influential at the big end. I expect that when he eventually gets a go at one of the real contenders then he will look good for 2-3 rounds and then they'll bully him about, get some body shots in and take the legs from him. Then it's a big KO similar to Kahn against Canelo. Canelo is a super boxer and these big guys aren't but Canelo didn't need to be super to get to Kahn. What I thinkUsyk is hoping for is the break up of the belts and then he can pick up a scrap like Charles Martin and he'll have 'done it,' similar to Jones Jr or Haye… beat a crap HW for a belt and 'make history' but hollow enough history. How's that for a rant on the futility of human endeavor?



    I reckon he has more power than people think, plus he will only grow stronger the longer he is at heavy weight,


    Lets not forget what he done to Bellew,
    He took his time with Bellew and then sparked him only Super man Stevenson has done that to Bellew before and that was at light heavy when Tony was a skeleton of a man ,


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    #4419
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,561 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    walshb wrote: »
    Simple shootout that one...

    Who lands heavy first likely the winner..

    But, absolutely yes, little more thought and planning needed. Wilder is a far deadlier and riskier foe compared to Usyk..



    Wilder is the most dangerous by along shot


    Lets be fair that fight aint happing until Wilder loses , Hearn will not risk AJ v Wilder while Wilder is in his prime,


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    #4420
    selectamatic
    Registered Users Posts: 3,898 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    Usyk vs Whittaker wasn't that bad a fight at all imo.

    Usyk going easy enough for 2 rounds then slowly ramping it up as the rounds ticked by. Took some shots to land some but seemed content to do that. I've no doubt he'll be more cagey against the heavier hitters but he's well able to move when he has to.

    Whittaker was pulled by his corner because he was on the cusp of getting a woeful beating for the remaining rounds. I've a strong belief he'd have been ko'd or tko'd.

    It's not true HW power from Usyk but it's enough to do damage especially when you factor in the fact that as of yet the man has showed he simply doesn't tire.


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    #4421
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,694 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    I reckon he has more power than people think, plus he will only grow stronger the longer he is at heavy weight,


    Lets not forget what he done to Bellew,
    He took his time with Bellew and then sparked him only Super man Stevenson has done that to Bellew before and that was at light heavy when Tony was a skeleton of a man ,

    Ah now that’s like basing your opinion on bellew by what he did to haye. Tony was finished then. Very lucky to get a short prime at the end of his career


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    #4422
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,694 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    selectamatic wrote: »
    Usyk vs Whittaker wasn't that bad a fight at all imo.

    Usyk going easy enough for 2 rounds then slowly ramping it up as the rounds ticked by. Took some shots to land some but seemed content to do that. I've no doubt he'll be more cagey against the heavier hitters but he's well able to move when he has to.

    Whittaker was pulled by his corner because he was on the cusp of getting a woeful beating for the remaining rounds. I've a strong belief he'd have been ko'd or tko'd.

    It's not true HW power from Usyk but it's enough to do damage especially when you factor in the fact that as of yet the man has showed he simply doesn't tire.

    Hell tire quickly enough when there’s 18 1/2 stone pushing against him. Thing is there’s probably enough crap hanging around the hw division for him to gobble up. From his point of view there’s nothing for him at cw


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    #4423
    selectamatic
    Registered Users Posts: 3,898 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    squinn2912 wrote: »
    Hell tire quickly enough when there’s 18 1/2 stone pushing against him. Thing is there’s probably enough crap hanging around the hw division for him to gobble up. From his point of view there’s nothing for him at cw

    Maybe but he's shown zero sign of tiring yet. So maybe he won't tire from a bit of man handling, so then his bigger opponents will be looking to ko him or slow him with powerful shots but if that fails too they are gonna be entering into Usyks preferred hunting ground of the latter rounds with him still there being a nuisance so it may not be plain sailing at all.

    But yes I agree there was nothing left at CW and he's here in the HW division to make money but he doesn't strike me as a character that has much quit in him so while he's here it won't be just to make up the numbers.


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    #4424
    fonecrusher1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭fonecrusher1


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Wilder is the most dangerous by along shot


    Lets be fair that fight aint happing until Wilder loses , Hearn will not risk AJ v Wilder while Wilder is in his prime,

    +1

    Hearn almost lost his golden goose and Sky have their HW money maker back. No way in hell they're going to dare put him in the ring with a genuine threat for at least a year.


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    #4425
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,938 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Wilder is the most dangerous by along shot


    Lets be fair that fight aint happing until Wilder loses , Hearn will not risk AJ v Wilder while Wilder is in his prime,

    Let’s say Wilder loses to Fury. Even less chance he fights AJ as he’ll still be the same risk but no reward.


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    #4426
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,694 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    normanoffside wrote: »
    Let’s say Wilder loses to Fury. Even less chance he fights AJ as he’ll still be the same risk but no reward.

    Joshua will fight pulev next and get a mid to late ko. They’ll big up pulev as something he’s not. I wouldn’t be surprised to see an even easier opponent either. They’ll want a ko


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    #4427
    dougm1970
    Registered Users Posts: 1,125 ✭✭✭dougm1970


    pulev is no joke all the same...a.j. has been exposed, we seen in this newer edition of himself, as impressive as his movement and jab was for him, that he's looking afraid of getting tagged....in my eyes this could equal up a joshua v pulev fight a lot more than before the ruiz fights.


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    #4428
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,561 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    dougm1970 wrote: »
    pulev is no joke all the same...a.j. has been exposed, we seen in this newer edition of himself, as impressive as his movement and jab was for him, that he's looking afraid of getting tagged....in my eyes this could equal up a joshua v pulev fight a lot more than before the ruiz fights.



    Taking nothing from AJ performance as it was an easy win was,


    In range Ruiz stayed calm and dodged shots in the pocket AJ stil looked more uncomfortable than I'd ever seen him , hand up and panic when Ruiz was close, The problem was Ruiz couldn't get close often enough,


    I think AJ will find it hard to go back to his old style now being Ko'd seems to put the ****s up him ,


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    #4429
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,694 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Taking nothing from AJ performance as it was an easy win was,


    In range Ruiz stayed calm and dodged shots in the pocket AJ stil looked more uncomfortable than I'd ever seen him , hand up and panic when Ruiz was close, The problem was Ruiz couldn't get close often enough,


    I think AJ will find it hard to go back to his old style now being Ko'd seems to put the ****s up him ,

    It did look a bit like that but I think he'll get braver after he's had a few fights. I'd expect 1-2 underwhelming opponents and he'll get back on the KO. TBF he was fighting against the bloke who beat him to a pulp 6 months ago. He would have been afraid and rightly so. I'm not frustrated with AJ but with Ruiz. He really let himself down a bagful. Doesn't deserve to even make a big fight unless he gets fitter. If he'd turned up like that for the first fight even the way AJ fought then I think he'd have been KO'd


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    #4430
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,561 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    squinn2912 wrote: »
    It did look a bit like that but I think he'll get braver after he's had a few fights. I'd expect 1-2 underwhelming opponents and he'll get back on the KO. TBF he was fighting against the bloke who beat him to a pulp 6 months ago. He would have been afraid and rightly so. I'm not frustrated with AJ but with Ruiz. He really let himself down a bagful. Doesn't deserve to even make a big fight unless he gets fitter. If he'd turned up like that for the first fight even the way AJ fought then I think he'd have been KO'd



    I agree AJ did the job and fair play to him
    Ruiz should be ashamed of himself, he really let himself down big time,


    There is simply no excuse for ill discipline in a sport that is about how you physically prepare ,Probably why he never made much waves before the first fight m


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    #4431
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,694 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    I agree AJ did the job and fair play to him
    Ruiz should be ashamed of himself, he really let himself down big time,


    There is simply no excuse for ill discipline in a sport that is about how you physically prepare ,Probably why he never made much waves before the first fight m

    Yea that's it. He probably had his 'one night' and I don't think we'll ever see the same guy again. He got a lucky punch that completely altered the fight. It was well thrown of course and then after that he battered a guy with no punch resistance left. One thing about him he can really take a dig. On fight night he is as game as they come but that's no good at the top level. I would like to see him now fight someone like Ortiz or Povetkin if he fights on. On Povetkin, I did fear for his safety the other night. A harder hitter than Hunter and he could have been in real trouble. He was staggering around looking very vulnerable. He had a bit of an off night and Hunter really put it on him early. Risky but intelligent tactics. Other than that Ruiz needs to show that he really wants it. He'd have NO bother coming in at 18.5 stone and with those hands and an added bit of footwork he'd be a handful for anyone.


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    #4432
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,694 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    HW show on BT Sport now Nick Webb is to next dire so far gonna stomach the other two qfs and if it’s not better it’s off!


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    #4433
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,694 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    “I think both Webb and eh, eh... (Bennett) are both quite experienced so I think the best man will win”
    In-depth contribution from Amir Kahn. Think this guy is getting dimmer by the day. Crolla speaking too and he’s saving it. Steve Bunce stealing a living with tone as usual


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    #4434
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,661 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I must be the only one here who was impressed by AJ against Ruiz.
    He spent that whole fight moving like a middleweight, his level of fitness was above I think anybody I've ever seen before in all my years watching heavyweight boxing. I don't think Wilder could live with that, obviously he'd have a chance if he could get to AJ but I think he would find it very hard. Also AJ took, some shots in that fight and took them very well I thought.
    Fury vs AJ would be interesting I think.


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    #4435
    BDI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭BDI


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I must be the only one here who was impressed by AJ against Ruiz.
    He spent that whole fight moving like a middleweight, his level of fitness was above I think anybody I've ever seen before in all my years watching heavyweight boxing. I don't think Wilder could live with that, obviously he'd have a chance if he could get to AJ but I think he would find it very hard. Also AJ took, some shots in that fight and took them very well I thought.
    Fury vs AJ would be interesting I think.

    It’s easy to move like a middleweight when you are being chased by a fella who has been eating silk pyjamas.


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    #4436
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,717 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I was impressed with AJ, even if I criticised his overall kind of negativity and fear...

    But BDIs post stands, for me!


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    #4437
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,661 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    BDI wrote:
    It’s easy to move like a middleweight when you are being chased by a fella who has been eating silk pyjamas.
    No, it doesn't matter what the opponent is like, no way Wilder would be able to keep up that pace. He gets tired without even doing much.


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    #4438
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,717 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Wilder wouldn’t have needed to keep up any pace. He would have given it a “real” go and knocked that blimp clean out!


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    #4439
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,661 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I don't think he'd get near him.
    Also AJ took some shots and they didn't bother him. He looked much looser than I've ever seen him and I'm sure that helped a lot as regards taking shots.


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    #4440
    BDI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭BDI


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I don't think he'd get near him.
    Also AJ took some shots and they didn't bother him. He looked much looser than I've ever seen him and I'm sure that helped a lot as regards taking shots.

    Ah here, the AJ bobbed and moved around a chap who didn’t come off his heels for more than 3 seconds at a time. Now he is some sort of Powerful Tyson Fury with a granite chin.

    His jab is slow and robotic at times (see round two)

    Anytime he got hit he got hurt and got back behind the jab.

    The only reason wilder won’t get near him is because he will not fight him. He will stay behind his jab, behind Eddie Hearn, behind Sky Sport propaganda and right behind a few mandatories.

    Wilder would beat the fight out of him in two rounds I reckon.


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    #4441
    selectamatic
    Registered Users Posts: 3,898 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    The point about wilders stamina is pretty valid.

    He really doesn't seem to cope well when he has to actively seek out his opponent round after round. Thing is we never really see him in this situation.

    Personally I felt his cardio looked pretty poor in the Fury fight for a man who weighed in light with zero excess muscle or fat. Although there were rumours of an illness.


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