Airlines breaking EU law by not offering refunds

Chivito550 · 01-04-2020 8:47am #1

I was supposed to fly to the Philippines from Dublin with Emirates (flight cost almost a grand!) Even though the flight has been cancelled and they are bound by EU law to refund customers, they are trying to charge €150 for a refund as a way to push customers over to a travel voucher or a rebooking.

See EU legislation here:

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites/transport/files/legislation/c20201830.pdf

I don't particularly want a voucher as it's a bit risky in case the airline goes bust. I don't want a rebooking as there is no guarantee yet that I will be able to make the same trip rescheduled for a year later. I'd rather get my money back as it is a lot of money. I don't feel like paying €150 for something I'm legally entitled to.

Has anyone else encountered this?

johnire · 01-04-2020 9:57am

I’m exactly the same with KLM. we were due to fly to Argentina and they’re refusing to refund the flight cost. All they are offering is a voucher valid for a year. I don’t want that-I just want my money back. It’s absolutely outrageous as they are breaking the law by this refusal but they don’t seem to care. I’m thin of going down the credit card chargeback route.

Chivito550 wrote: »

I was supposed to fly to the Philippines from Dublin with Emirates (flight cost almost a grand!) Even though the flight has been cancelled and they are bound by EU law to refund customers, they are trying to charge €150 for a refund as a way to push customers over to a travel voucher or a rebooking.

See EU legislation here:

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites/transport/files/legislation/c20201830.pdf

I don't particularly want a voucher as it's a bit risky in case the airline goes bust. I don't want a rebooking as there is no guarantee yet that I will be able to make the same trip rescheduled for a year later. I'd rather get my money back as it is a lot of money. I don't feel like paying €150 for something I'm legally entitled to.

Has anyone else encountered this?

PCros · 01-04-2020 10:57am

Quick one - when you go into my booking is there an option for refund that automatically brings you to a voucher form instead?

ted1 · 01-04-2020 11:10am

Does EU261 apply? The airline don’t have the power to fly to many destinations

The EU regulation is in place to protect passengers against the inconvenience caused by long waiting times or flight cancellations, which the airline had the power to prevent.

average_runner · 01-04-2020 3:07pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

I was supposed to fly to the Philippines from Dublin with Emirates (flight cost almost a grand!) Even though the flight has been cancelled and they are bound by EU law to refund customers, they are trying to charge €150 for a refund as a way to push customers over to a travel voucher or a rebooking.

See EU legislation here:

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites/transport/files/legislation/c20201830.pdf

I don't particularly want a voucher as it's a bit risky in case the airline goes bust. I don't want a rebooking as there is no guarantee yet that I will be able to make the same trip rescheduled for a year later. I'd rather get my money back as it is a lot of money. I don't feel like paying €150 for something I'm legally entitled to.

Has anyone else encountered this?

Airlines are offering vouchers, because if they do refunds they be gone bust.

We are due to fly in July but will ask to push it out by a year if we cant go

These aren't normal times sadly

average_runner · 01-04-2020 3:08pm

johnire wrote: »

I’m exactly the same with KLM. we were due to fly to Argentina and they’re refusing to refund the flight cost. All they are offering is a voucher valid for a year. I don’t want that-I just want my money back. It’s absolutely outrageous as they are breaking the law by this refusal but they don’t seem to care. I’m thin of going down the credit card chargeback route.

That might be your only route, but if we all do that, travelling when it returns will cost a lot more.

01-04-2020 5:39pm

Due to fly to Portugal this month, TAP airlines have cancelled all flights till the 9th May. The link from the email only allows vouchers instead of cash refunds.
I have emailed them looking for my cash refund, but I'm not hopeful of a reply anytime soon.
Will just wait & see closer to the date I was due to go.

dreamers75 · 01-04-2020 5:41pm

Applied for an Aer Lingus voucher over weeks ago, still waiting.

Happy enough with the vouchers as i can understand why they cant/wont give cash refunds.

HeidiHeidi · 01-04-2020 5:44pm

average_runner wrote: »

That might be your only route, but if we all do that, travelling when it returns will cost a lot more.

My fear would be that if everyone does that, there won't be many airlines left to be overcharging

I've applied for a refund for one cancelled flight, been offered a voucher/ date change for another one that hasn't yet actually been cancelled. Haven't acted on that yet.

I don't hold out much hope for either tbh. Thankfully the flights were cheap.

Royale with Cheese · 01-04-2020 6:07pm

What will it mean for travel insurance claims if they offer you one of these vouchers? They are saying full refund if you don't use the voucher within a year (provided they're still in business of course).

I was due to fly into Paris at the end of May with Transavia and out of Perpignan two weeks later with Aer Lingus. Are Lingus credit is fine by me, I'll use it eventually. Transavia? The only destination that is good for is Paris and it just so happened to suit to pay it a visit at the start of that holiday, I'd have little interest in going any other time.

johnire · 01-04-2020 10:21pm

I paid over €2000 for our flights. There absolutely no way I’m going to allow KLM to hold on to my money. They’re obliged to refund the money-if by giving refunds they or any airline goes bust then so be it. I just want MY money back-they’re not going to use me and thousands like me as providers of interest free loans.

JohnCleary · 01-04-2020 10:30pm

I'm having issues with 2 airlines: AerLingus & Vueling - both flights cancelled.

VUELING
Sent me an e-mail providing a link for a refund. Filled in form. Eventually got an e-mail offering flight credit, despite filling out refund form. Currently trying to contact them on Social Media etc...

Aer Lingus
After they sent email for voucher, contacted them via Social Media requesting full refund. Was forwarded a link for 'dispute' form due to cancelled flight. They then only refunded my taxes & charges, despite them cancelling flights (hence entitled to full refund). Have filled out another dispute form, awaiting a response (Social Media no use).

Will wait 14 days. If no resolution, will go down the chargeback route (plenty of evidence to support)

Insurance claim will be last resort as they'll ask that the above measures were attempted.

Very disappointed with Aer Lingus, any loyalty is now lost (Spent a few €€€ with them sending the oul man Transatlantic regularly Business Class)

Westernyelp · 01-04-2020 10:36pm

JohnCleary wrote: »

I'm having issues with 2 airlines: AerLingus & Vueling - both flights cancelled.

VUELING
Sent me an e-mail providing a link for a refund. Filled in form. Eventually got an e-mail offering flight credit, despite filling out refund form. Currently trying to contact them on Social Media etc...

Aer Lingus
After they sent email for voucher, contacted them via Social Media requesting full refund. Was forwarded a link for 'dispute' form due to cancelled flight. They then only refunded my taxes & charges, despite them cancelling flights (hence entitled to full refund). Have filled out another dispute form, awaiting a response (Social Media no use).

Will wait 14 days. If no resolution, will go down the chargeback route (plenty of evidence to support)

Insurance claim will be last resort as they'll ask that the above measures were attempted.

Very disappointed with Aer Lingus, any loyalty is now lost (Spent a few €€€ with them sending the oul man Transatlantic regularly Business Class)

Do you know how long the offered Aer Lingus vouchers as valid for? I'm debating whether to accept or hold out

JohnCleary · 01-04-2020 10:39pm

Westernyelp wrote: »

Do you know how long the offered Aer Lingus vouchers as valid for? I'm debating whether to accept or hold out

No. Fcuked if i'm taking a voucher (hence didn't entertain the offer). I requested a full refund, as one is entitled to.

MauraSweeney40 · 02-04-2020 8:54am

I have a problem with TAPAir Portugal. Cancelled a trip to Brazil for family of 4 plus infant. After several attempts to contact them their agent HUNG UP on me when I insisted on a refund to my credit card. Have now contacted via twitter the European Commissioner for Transport - Adina Valean. You can follow me on Twitter MauraSweeney40. Vouchers are of no value to me as after May we are not in a position to travel Brazil then or in the future. The airlines are suppose to have reserves. My money should not be used to supplement them. I think we need to put pressure on the POWERS THAT BE ie EU, Etc. SOME Airlines - not all of them - are hiding behind Covid-19 and not addressing their responsibilities.

ted1 · 02-04-2020 9:57am

MauraSweeney40 wrote: »

I have a problem with TAPAir Portugal. Cancelled a trip to Brazil for family of 4 plus infant. After several attempts to contact them their agent HUNG UP on me when I insisted on a refund to my credit card. Have now contacted via twitter the European Commissioner for Transport - Adina Valean. You can follow me on Twitter MauraSweeney40. Vouchers are of no value to me as after May we are not in a position to travel Brazil then or in the future. The airlines are suppose to have reserves. My money should not be used to supplement them. I think we need to put pressure on the POWERS THAT BE ie EU, Etc. SOME Airlines - not all of them - are hiding behind Covid-19 and not addressing their responsibilities.

Which responsibilities? I don’t believe EU261 applies. So a voucher or rebooking is their legal responsibility

otnomart · 02-04-2020 11:38am

johnire wrote: »

I’m exactly the same with KLM. we were due to fly to Argentina and they’re refusing to refund the flight cost. All they are offering is a voucher valid for a year. I don’t want that-I just want my money back. It’s absolutely outrageous as they are breaking the law by this refusal but they don’t seem to care. I’m thin of going down the credit card chargeback route.

Might be of interest to you as your flight was KLM.
EU blocks Dutch plan to let airlines give passengers vouchers for canceled flights

"Airlines are only allowed to give vouchers in return for a canceled flight if the passenger agrees. If not, the canceled ticket must be refunded, European Commissioner for Transport Adina Valean said. With that she threw a spanner in the works of Dutch Infrastructure Minister Cora van Nieuwenhuizen's plan to allow airlines to compensate passengers with vouchers."
Source: https://nltimes.nl/2020/04/02/eu-blocks-dutch-plan-let-airlines-give-passengers-vouchers-canceled-flights

MauraSweeney40 · 02-04-2020 12:33pm

My contract with them allows for a refund but they are ignoring the contract I have with them at time of booking and paying.

MauraSweeney40 · 02-04-2020 1:16pm

At time of making and paying for my flights my contract with TAP Air Portugal stated that if cancelledI was entitled to refund!

JohnCleary · 02-04-2020 4:38pm

Vueling just DENIED my refund request, despite them cancelling the flight.

Time to claim off the insurance (more paperwork, great).

theguzman · 02-04-2020 6:02pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Due to fly to Portugal this month, TAP airlines have cancelled all flights till the 9th May. The link from the email only allows vouchers instead of cash refunds.
I have emailed them looking for my cash refund, but I'm not hopeful of a reply anytime soon.
Will just wait & see closer to the date I was due to go.

MauraSweeney40 wrote: »

I have a problem with TAPAir Portugal. Cancelled a trip to Brazil for family of 4 plus infant. After several attempts to contact them their agent HUNG UP on me when I insisted on a refund to my credit card. Have now contacted via twitter the European Commissioner for Transport - Adina Valean. You can follow me on Twitter MauraSweeney40. Vouchers are of no value to me as after May we are not in a position to travel Brazil then or in the future. The airlines are suppose to have reserves. My money should not be used to supplement them. I think we need to put pressure on the POWERS THAT BE ie EU, Etc. SOME Airlines - not all of them - are hiding behind Covid-19 and not addressing their responsibilities.

I'm in the same situation with TAP Air Portugal, I had a flight booked which was cancelled and I complained via the webform and was offered either a free rescheduling or else a 1 year validity voucher. I didn't reply to that but I have already begun a Credit Card Chargeback against them as I just want my money back.

I was in Brazil when the crisis escalated and unable to get home via the United States until I had spent 14 days outside of the EU so booked a flight home with TAP Air Portugal, this was cancelled. After my 14 days outside the EU had lapsed Delta Airlines changed my ticket and flew me home at no extra cost.

I'm going to claim an EU 261 regulation claim also for €600 as I was never notified of the flight cancellation and only discovered the flight was cancelled by checking myself.

Technocentral · 02-04-2020 7:21pm

Why 'can I get a refund?' is travel's biggest issue: Coronavirus travel Q&A

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2020/apr/02/can-i-get-a-refund-is-travels-biggest-issue-coronavirus-travel-questions-answered?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Good article

Chivito550 · 03-04-2020 2:27pm

theguzman wrote: »

I'm in the same situation with TAP Air Portugal, I had a flight booked which was cancelled and I complained via the webform and was offered either a free rescheduling or else a 1 year validity voucher. I didn't reply to that but I have already begun a Credit Card Chargeback against them as I just want my money back.

I was in Brazil when the crisis escalated and unable to get home via the United States until I had spent 14 days outside of the EU so booked a flight home with TAP Air Portugal, this was cancelled. After my 14 days outside the EU had lapsed Delta Airlines changed my ticket and flew me home at no extra cost.

I'm going to claim an EU 261 regulation claim also for €600 as I was never notified of the flight cancellation and only discovered the flight was cancelled by checking myself.

Can you explain the steps involved in the credit card charge back process? Are credit card companies obliging in these circumstances?

theguzman · 03-04-2020 6:04pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

Can you explain the steps involved in the credit card charge back process? Are credit card companies obliging in these circumstances?

https://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2058066181

Chivito550 · 03-04-2020 6:56pm

I assume my VHI multiptrip (I have the add on that means I don't have to pay excess) will cover me for my flight given the airline won't refund me? I last renewed my policy last July.

Blanchy90 · 03-04-2020 7:02pm

I'm in the same situation with air France, we were supposed to fly to Florida today and th flights were cancelled. Air France are only offering vouchers and are saying it's exceptional circumstances so we're not entitled to a refund.

They never even notified us that the flight was cancelled which is very poor. Obviously I expected it to be cancelled so I had been checking

Toffeeboy · 03-04-2020 7:15pm

Same with Air Canada only offering credit. I contacted vhi multrip a few days ago and they said they would email me a form to fill out. Haven't received the form yet. I get a feeling they don't want to pay over either.

Chivito550 · 03-04-2020 8:42pm

Toffeeboy wrote: »

Same with Air Canada only offering credit. I contacted vhi multrip a few days ago and they said they would email me a form to fill out. Haven't received the form yet. I get a feeling they don't want to pay over either.

You can put a claim in online though no?

Chivito550 · 03-04-2020 9:14pm

My flight with Emirates was booked through an Irish based online travel agent (it was 40 euro cheaper than booking direct with airline).

These are the two emails email they sent me. Just wondering are they liable to give me a refund regardless of whether the airline pays them back?

In relation to your query regarding a refund please note the following:

First email:

"Many Airlines have instructed their Agents to issue credits or vouchers for flights affected by cancellations. Several laws require the Airline to refund the Agent who can then refund the customer. What the Airlines are doing is wrong, there is pressure on them to do the right thing and repay your money.

For now we will cancel your booking, place the booking on hold and you will need to contact us when you are ready to rebook. Should the Airline policy update to allow a refund we will gladly process one for you.

We will keep you updated and act in your best interest."

Second email:

"I know, its so unfair what they are doing but there is a lot of pressure on them now to do the right thing and some of the airlines are starting to change their stance so we are hoping Emirates
follow suit soon. This is why we are advising to leave your ticket open for rebook , but in the meantime if we get the news we can apply for full refunds we will."

Guffy · 05-04-2020 9:42am

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

What will it mean for travel insurance claims if they offer you one of these vouchers? They are saying full refund if you don't use the voucher within a year (provided they're still in business of course).

I was due to fly into Paris at the end of May with Transavia and out of Perpignan two weeks later with Aer Lingus. Are Lingus credit is fine by me, I'll use it eventually. Transavia? The only destination that is good for is Paris and it just so happened to suit to pay it a visit at the start of that holiday, I'd have little interest in going any other time.

You wouldnt be at a loss so there would be no claim

lawred2 · 05-04-2020 9:43am

Ryanair refunded a cancelled flight in full to us

Mortelaro · 05-04-2020 9:51am

Just do a credit or debit card charge back folks
Call your bank
You should have the money back in a week
End of story

BanditLuke · 05-04-2020 9:53am

lawred2 wrote: »

Ryanair refunded a cancelled flight in full to us

How long did it take to get the money back. I put in for a refund weeks ago now and still nothing.

lawred2 · 05-04-2020 9:59am

BanditLuke wrote: »

How long did it take to get the money back. I put in for a refund weeks ago now and still nothing.

Couple of weeks maybe

Just a waiting game

cunnifferous · 05-04-2020 9:59am

Was supposed to fly to Thailand with Qatar Air. I feared the worst when they closed their Dublin office without warning but when I got through to their office in Qatar I was offered a refund or voucher. I obviously took the full refund, which I'm told will be in my account within 28 days. I'll believe it when I see it but fingers crossed!!

ted1 · 05-04-2020 10:22am

Chivito550 wrote: »

My flight with Emirates was booked through an Irish based online travel agent (it was 40 euro cheaper than booking direct with airline).

These are the two emails email they sent me. Just wondering are they liable to give me a refund regardless of whether the airline pays them back?

In relation to your query regarding a refund please note the following:

First email:

"Many Airlines have instructed their Agents to issue credits or vouchers for flights affected by cancellations. Several laws require the Airline to refund the Agent who can then refund the customer. What the Airlines are doing is wrong, there is pressure on them to do the right thing and repay your money.

For now we will cancel your booking, place the booking on hold and you will need to contact us when you are ready to rebook. Should the Airline policy update to allow a refund we will gladly process one for you.

We will keep you updated and act in your best interest."

Second email:

"I know, its so unfair what they are doing but there is a lot of pressure on them now to do the right thing and some of the airlines are starting to change their stance so we are hoping Emirates
follow suit soon. This is why we are advising to leave your ticket open for rebook , but in the meantime if we get the news we can apply for full refunds we will."

If you cancel the booking you could lose out

Sheep Shagger · 05-04-2020 10:25am

VHI pointed us to this

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/baaa9d-guidance-on-the-right-of-travellers-to-terminate-package-travel-cont/

Airlines are doing everything they can to not refund as they are fighting for their lives. By law they have too.

fishy_fishy · 05-04-2020 10:42am

There's a lot of short sightedness. If everyone demands money back, most, and I stress most, airlines will go under. Then, most people won't be able to afford to travel again for the foreseeable because there'll be virtually no competition.

Bass Reeves · 05-04-2020 10:44am

TBF airlines are under savage pressure. Most have now laid off staff. it would have been impossible to have reserves in place for a senario such as this. Most will not trade there way out of this and if they do not receive state aid many will go broke. It is more than likely the end of the era of cheap flying. The weekend in Londan or Madrid are a thing of the past.

lawred2 · 05-04-2020 10:50am

It's nice to get the old refunds back. As I did myself.

Let's hope there are airlines left in business after this to take us anywhere.

riddles · 05-04-2020 11:34am

Do the airlines refund the flight cost and then the tax portion has to be claimed back separately?

Chivito550 · 06-04-2020 12:15am

ted1 wrote: »

If you cancel the booking you could lose out

What you mean exactly?

I haven't cancelled my booking, so I don't know why the agency are saying they are cancelling the booking.

Sheep Shagger · 06-04-2020 8:08am

riddles wrote: »

Do the airlines refund the flight cost and then the tax portion has to be claimed back separately?

They should cover both as the government only receive the tax element once your bum is on the seat and the flight takes off.

Orobhsa · 06-04-2020 4:35pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

What you mean exactly?

I haven't cancelled my booking, so I don't know why the agency are saying they are cancelling the booking.

My mother was due to travel to Sydney with Emirates on March 19th returning April 2nd.

Her travel agent (a well know travel agent based in the UK with offices in Dublin, Cork and Limerick) cancelled all the agents bookings for March and April on March 18th I believe.

Today they emailed her with 3 options including a refund option BUT this could only be started 12 months after her original booking date and would then take 6-8 weeks to process. In other words she may get a refund about 12 months from now. This is totally unacceptable.

Will give the agent a deadline of say 14 days to issue full refund otherwise chargeback.

JohnCleary · 06-04-2020 4:54pm

Orobhsa wrote: »

My mother was due to travel to Sydney with Emirates on March 19th returning April 2nd.

Her travel agent (a well know travel agent based in the UK with offices in Dublin, Cork and Limerick) cancelled all the agents bookings for March and April on March 18th I believe.

Today they emailed her with 3 options including a refund option BUT this could only be started 12 months after her original booking date and would then take 6-8 weeks to process. In other words she may get a refund about 12 months from now. This is totally unacceptable.

Will give the agent a deadline of say 14 days to issue full refund otherwise chargeback.

Yup. EMail (so you have record) offering 14 days. If no response, go with chargeback.

I posted a chargeback request to BOI today for a flight (I'll give full info when it's all over and done with) whom the airline (dealing direct) are not playing ball.

Sono Topolino · 06-04-2020 4:57pm

Anyone asking for a refund is being a dick. I understand that you cannot travel and this isn’t your fault, but neither is it the airline’s fault and they shouldn’t have to go bust.

Take the voucher and be grateful.

maestroamado · 06-04-2020 4:57pm

Booked Air France.
Just to make people aware as to what was happening 6 months ago.
I had a flight to Thailand in October delayed by 24 hours.
Reason Stobart Air Dub/Ams late so missed connection.
Stranded in 4 star hotel Ams free acc/food.
Got same flight 24 hours later.
Was advised apply compensation.
Was advised may get more if i accept voucher so went with this.
Max cash amount €600, got €800 voucher.
I hope they don't go under.
Personally i think the established ones be ok but you never know....

johnire · 06-04-2020 6:17pm

What happens if the airline does go bust and you’re left with a useless voucher??

quote="Sono Topolino;113075665"]Anyone asking for a refund is being a dick. I understand that you cannot travel and this isn’t your fault, but neither is it the airline’s fault and they shouldn’t have to go bust.

Take the voucher and be grateful.[/quote]

lawred2 · 06-04-2020 6:22pm

Sono Topolino wrote: »

Anyone asking for a refund is being a dick. I understand that you cannot travel and this isn’t your fault, but neither is it the airline’s fault and they shouldn’t have to go bust.

Take the voucher and be grateful.

Wind up

murphaph · 06-04-2020 7:51pm

If you don't live where the airline has a base you might have a voucher for an airline that survives but doesn't fly from where you live any more. This is our scenario. There is no guarantee Aer Lingus will be flying from my city when the dust has settled on all this. I want a refund.

fishy_fishy · 06-04-2020 10:20pm

The more people who demand cash in case the airline goes bust, the greater the likelihood of that being a self fulfilling prophecy.

If you can survive without the cash then you probably should take a voucher. Sure, if the flights cost a lot then get your cash back, but if every Tom, Dick and Harry wants their 29.99 refunded that guarantees insolvency for the airline.

Most of the major players have fairly good balance sheets going into this. They can mostly survive this IF Joe public doesn't decide to be a dick about money they could well afford to spend when they booked the flights, and money they would barely notice going back into their account. This isn't an immediate profitability issue - it's cash flow.

If your €50 or €100 is worth more than the ability to travel affordably in the medium term, go ahead, do that chargeback. But don't whinge when you can't afford to go to costa del shiithole twice a year anytime in the next few years.

Airlines breaking EU law by not offering refunds

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