Airlines breaking EU law by not offering refunds

k123456

I called Aer Lingus , I asked for the AL agent to provide their first and last name, which they did


I was told fULL Refund IF flights Are cancelled
Sun 10 May 2020
Wed 20 May 2020
Tenerife
While on the phone, I asked for a call reference number for my phone call and I was given one
If AL do not refund , I will need evidence (call reference number) that I called them

I assume my next step, is

Credit card charge back
and refund from my annual travel insurance policy

One thing I did not do (and I should have) , is to record the call , assuming I warn AL , that I am recording, this is legal ( I think)

Technocentral

lawred2 wrote: »

Ryanair refunded a cancelled flight in full to us

When were you due to fly?

topcat16

aerlingus support flight-disruption-information

Can't post the link but scroll to the the bottom under coronavirus FAQs, I've just applied for full refund there and received an automated reply suggesting that I will get a full refund

scoobydude

Was due to fly on 24th of April. Received an email from Ryanair today informing me the flight was cancelled, and I could take a refund or take a voucher. The refund process could not have been easier. I expect it will take a while (they estimate 20 days due to demand) but fair play to them in how they handled it so far.

Sono Topolino

johnire wrote: »

What happens if the airline does go bust and you’re left with a useless voucher??


quote="Sono Topolino;113075665"]Anyone asking for a refund is being a dick. I understand that you cannot travel and this isn’t your fault, but neither is it the airline’s fault and they shouldn’t have to go bust.

Take the voucher and be grateful.

[/quote]


Then they wouldn’t have had the money to pay you to begin with.

I received a voucher from Aer Lingus for a cancelled trip to Germany. I actually want Aer Lingus to survive and not go bust, because airline monopolies will hurt me more in the long run.

topcat16

scoobydude wrote: »

Was due to fly on 24th of April. Received an email from Ryanair today informing me the flight was cancelled, and I could take a refund or take a voucher. The refund process could not have been easier. I expect it will take a while (they estimate 20 days due to demand) but fair play to them in how they handled it so far.

I had the same with Ryanair as well, was due to fly on Paddy's Day, gave them a ring and they confirmed I would receive a refund.

Yet to actually see it in my account though!

k123456

Sono Topolino wrote: »

Then they wouldn’t have had the money to pay you to begin with.

I received a voucher from Aer Lingus for a cancelled trip to Germany. I actually want Aer Lingus to survive and not go bust, because airline monopolies will hurt me more in the long run.[/QUOTE]

I would agree, I dont want airlines to go bust
However , while the AL offer of a voucher at 110% of its value is generous, I would be concerned that if AL goes bust my voucher would be worthless

I am fairly sure , if an organisation goes bust , the customers are usually the last to get paid


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-response-air-passengers-could-lose-refund-right-under-government-plans-1.4221974

Meglamonia

Had a flight booked with American Airlines where I had a connection in Charlotte. They announced last week they are suspending their Dublin to Charlotte route for the summer which gave me a great chance to request a refund because I was not going to risk travelling anyway but now they're trying to hold onto the money.

How can I make the rest of my flights and return flight If they cant get me on my first flight from Dublin to Charlotte as they have now suspended the route meaning the flight was cancelled while I was still booked on it.

Does a charge back work for a Visa debit card?

Shn99

Had flights booked with ryanair for the 22nd of April, were cancelled and refund process was v easy. Trying to deal with AL on the other hand is a nightmare, v disappointed in how theyve handled it.

Sheep Shagger

k123456 wrote: »

I called Aer Lingus , I asked for the AL agent to provide their first and last name, which they did


I was told fULL Refund IF flights Are cancelled
Sun 10 May 2020
Wed 20 May 2020
Tenerife
While on the phone, I asked for a call reference number for my phone call and I was given one
If AL do not refund , I will need evidence (call reference number) that I called them

I assume my next step, is

Credit card charge back
and refund from my annual travel insurance policy

One thing I did not do (and I should have) , is to record the call , assuming I warn AL , that I am recording, this is legal ( I think)

Send them an email making reference to the call, print the email and use that as evidence you have tried to resolve the matter with the merchant.

AFAIK you'll only get a charge back after the flight was due to take off and they don't refund you within a reasonable amount of time of that. Or if they cancel well before the flight if they dont refund you promptly after cancelling said flight.

Would not claim on travel insurance unless you have to - you may have to pay an excess and declare a claim on any future travel insurance policy purchases.

Guffy

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Would not claim on travel insurance unless you have to - you may have to pay an excess and declare a claim on any future travel insurance policy purchases.

This wouldn't impact any future claims. If you are entitled to claim submit a claim. The only time it may be an issue is if there was a pattern of claims to display.

Excess would depend on the level of cover you purchased and would come off the top. If you have a policy with an excess of 75 and claim for 100 which is successful, the remainder is still paid out.

Neither are good reasons not to submit a valid claim.


Edit: wait sorry think i may have misread. Making a claim does not effect your travel insurance premiums. Each policy is independent from the last or the next.

Sheep Shagger

Guffy wrote: »

This wouldn't impact any future claims. If you are entitled to claim submit a claim. The only time it may be an issue is if there was a pattern of claims to display.

Excess would depend on the level of cover you purchased and would come off the top. If you have a policy with an excess of 75 and claim for 100 which is successful, the remainder is still paid out.

Neither are good reasons not to submit a valid claim.


Edit: wait sorry think i may have misread. Making a claim does not effect your travel insurance premiums. Each policy is independent from the last or the next.

Why pay an excess when a charge back doesn't have any and in personal experience, chargebacks are faster than travel insurance claims.

JimmyVik

k123456 wrote: »

I called Aer Lingus , I asked for the AL agent to provide their first and last name, which they did


I was told fULL Refund IF flights Are cancelled
Sun 10 May 2020
Wed 20 May 2020
Tenerife
While on the phone, I asked for a call reference number for my phone call and I was given one
If AL do not refund , I will need evidence (call reference number) that I called them

I assume my next step, is

Credit card charge back
and refund from my annual travel insurance policy

One thing I did not do (and I should have) , is to record the call , assuming I warn AL , that I am recording, this is legal ( I think)

You can record anything you like. You dont have to tell anyone you are recording.

jface187

I was due to fly to Amsterdam last week with Aer Lingus via a package with Expedia. Our hotel was closed due to CV-19 so we got a refund with Expedia for the hotel, we were contacted by Aer Lingus via e-mail that we could get the refund voucher for the flights.
We took it. We went to the website via the link in the e-mail put all the details in and said we got the voucher and be in touch soon.

Yesterday I got an e-mail for AL saying we were not entitled to the voucher. Our flight was last Monday, so I week after our flight takes off, they send this e-mail.

I contacted them via FB/Twitter to be told it's in there terms and conditions that because we booked via Expedia we were not allowed to get the refund voucher.

I told them it was them who told me I was allowed to and that they took my details and said it was ok. They won't accept any blame.

I got on the phone and the guy I spoke too, said I'm due a full refund, because my flight time was moved by more then two hours. (They were sending e-mails almost every day, with my flights times changed.)

He said it might take three weeks for the claim to go through. I not holding my breath, there clearly trying to screw the customers anyway they can.

My holiday to Greece in May with Jet2 has been cancelled. They are pushing for people to rebook which I have no issue with but my query is about my travel insurance.

I have had a yearly policy with TheAA for a few years and it renews in August.
I booked my holiday in early January so as it stands, I’m covered for Covid19 issues.
TheAA state that any policies or bookings made after 16 March WILL NOT cover Covid19 related issue.

If I rebook with Jet2 will this be classed as a new booking?
When my policy renews in August will the Covid19 issues be in the restrictions?

I would be thinking of rebooking for September at the earliest and probably a lot later. If Jet2 go under, I’m wondering if I’ll be covered. I emailed TheAA and they auto replied saying look at FAQ but I couldn’t see anything.

JimmyVik

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

My holiday to Greece in May with Jet2 has been cancelled. They are pushing for people to rebook which I have no issue with but my query is about my travel insurance.

I have had a yearly policy with TheAA for a few years and it renews in August.
I booked my holiday in early January so as it stands, I’m covered for Covid19 issues.
TheAA state that any policies or bookings made after 16 March WILL NOT cover Covid19 related issue.

If I rebook with Jet2 will this be classed as a new booking?
When my policy renews in August will the Covid19 issues be in the restrictions?

I would be thinking of rebooking for September at the earliest and probably a lot later. If Jet2 go under, I’m wondering if I’ll be covered. I emailed TheAA and they auto replied saying look at FAQ but I couldn’t see anything.

I think that a rebooking is treated as a new booking.
Get your money back. Keep the cash and use it to rebook later if you want to.
But leaving the cash with the travel agencies is asking for it to disappear if they go under.

Blanchy90

I requested a refund on the Air France website and got an email back saying they can either move the reservation to a later date or get a voucher and "as you have requested a refund below, we have taken the liberty to request a voucher for you"

I'm fuming with this the flights cost over 2k and it looks like we wont get to take the trip at all so a voucher is no use to me. I believe they give the option for a full refund after you have the voucher for a year but that's not really good enough

JimmyVik

Blanchy90 wrote: »

I requested a refund on the Air France website and got an email back saying they can either move the reservation to a later date or get a voucher and "as you have requested a refund below, we have taken the liberty to request a voucher for you"

I'm fuming with this the flights cost over 2k and it looks like we wont get to take the trip at all so a voucher is no use to me. I believe they give the option for a full refund after you have the voucher for a year but that's not really good enough

Cant wait to see Ryanairs fuedal terms if the issue vouchers instead of refunds.

johnire

Im in the exact same position with KLM. I’ve initiated a chargeback with my credit card company so it’ll be interesting to see what happens.

Blanchy90 wrote: »

I requested a refund on the Air France website and got an email back saying they can either move the reservation to a later date or get a voucher and "as you have requested a refund below, we have taken the liberty to request a voucher for you"

I'm fuming with this the flights cost over 2k and it looks like we wont get to take the trip at all so a voucher is no use to me. I believe they give the option for a full refund after you have the voucher for a year but that's not really good enough

Blanchy90

johnire wrote: »

Im in the exact same position with KLM. I’ve initiated a chargeback with my credit card company so it’ll be interesting to see what happens.

I replied saying I don't accept the voucher and want a refund.

I've also sent an email in to the European Union to try get a definitive answer on what we're entitled to

JimmyVik

Im trying to get on to my credit card issuer to ask about chargeback in the case where the airline wont refund cash. I'll post here if I get an answer

JimmyVik

JimmyVik wrote: »

I think that a rebooking is treated as a new booking.
Get your money back. Keep the cash and use it to rebook later if you want to.
But leaving the cash with the travel agencies is asking for it to disappear if they go under.

Still no response from TheAA. I’ll give it some time but I’ll probably go for refund. Also cancel travel insurance as it’s of no use right now.

FishOnABike

k123456 wrote: »

I called Aer Lingus , I asked for the AL agent to provide their first and last name, which they did


I was told fULL Refund IF flights Are cancelled
Sun 10 May 2020
Wed 20 May 2020
Tenerife
While on the phone, I asked for a call reference number for my phone call and I was given one
If AL do not refund , I will need evidence (call reference number) that I called them

I assume my next step, is

Credit card charge back
and refund from my annual travel insurance policy

One thing I did not do (and I should have) , is to record the call , assuming I warn AL , that I am recording, this is legal ( I think)

It is perfectly legal to record a call to which you are a participant. While it might be considered polite to inform other participants the call is being recorded, there is no requirement to do so.

JimmyVik

JimmyVik wrote: »

Im trying to get on to my credit card issuer to ask about chargeback in the case where the airline wont refund cash. I'll post here if I get an answer

Right so eventually I got talking to someone in the CC company.
They said if I paid for the flights on the understanding that I would fly then the airline didnt deliver their end of the transaction, no matter what the reason, they cannot keep the money I paid. They cannot substitute the money I paid for other goods, eg vouchers either.


She said dont accept anything but a refund on my card if thats what I want.
When the date pf the flights passes I am to initiate a charge back on my card and they will take care of the rest. If I dont get the flights the money will go back onto my card basically.


I asked her did that apply to the issuer of my other card and she said I have to ring them and as, that she could not comment for them. So ring your own issuer and check.

Blanchy90

JimmyVik wrote: »

Right so eventually I got talking to someone in the CC company.
They said if I paid for the flights on the understanding that I would fly then the airline didnt deliver their end of the transaction, no matter what the reason, they cannot keep the money I paid. They cannot substitute the money I paid for other goods, eg vouchers either.


She said dont accept anything but a refund on my card if thats what I want.
When the date pf the flights passes I am to initiate a charge back on my card and they will take care of the rest. If I dont get the flights the money will go back onto my card basically.


I asked her did that apply to the issuer of my other card and she said I have to ring them and as, that she could not comment for them. So ring your own issuer and check.

Thats great news, what bank is that?

JimmyVik

Blanchy90 wrote: »

Thats great news, what bank is that?

That was avantcard.
Now bear in mind thats only a call center answer but it makes sense to me.



In summary


Paid for flight.

Didnt get flight.

Money back.

I didnt buy a voucher when i bought a flight.

Voucher is not money.

witnessmenow

I have two flights in the next couple of weeks.

• Ryanair next week: They cancelled a few weeks ago and I applied for a refund. Not received yet, but It's only 12 days ago. I paid with Paypal, which I hope doesn't complicate things!
• Air France next month: No contact from them yet anyways. Logged in there and the flight seems to be still on. (as if)

I understand both sides of the argument in terms of refund vs voucher, but obviously I would prefer a refund. A couple of things annoy me about the voucher situation though

• It's some Darth Vader move how they can just alter the deal when it suits them, there is a law and they are breaking it. I couldn't change my end of the deal like this in different circumstances.
• A 1 year voucher... seems really stingy when it's not clear when air travel will be a thing again. And as has been pointed out, prices will increase when flights do resume, so vouchers are worth less. It should be at least as good of terms as if we bought a voucher at the time (minimum 5 years)
• The fact that it's a voucher for the most impacted of industries (although for me personally I think its unlikely that Air France will go under). If they hit the wall, vouchers holders will get nothing.
• What happens if your airline pulls out of Ireland? (again probably unlikely for Air France)

Blanchy90

At least with Air France if the flight is cancelled the voucher is for 1 year and then you can get a refund if you didn't use it. Its not ideal but its better than nothing. I'll still be fighting for a refund now though.

zac8

JimmyVik wrote: »

Cant wait to see Ryanairs fuedal terms if the issue vouchers instead of refunds.

Ryanair are one of the few airlines offering refunds and have made it very easy to apply. So, credit were its due.

JimmyVik

zac8 wrote: »

Ryanair are one of the few airlines offering refunds and have made it very easy to apply. So, credit were its due.

Im waiting 25 days for my refund from Ryanair. Anyone seen any money from Ryanair yet? How long did it take?