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Ireland & the Single Market post Brexit

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13567…15

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    #62
    grayzer75
    Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭grayzer75


    fly_agaric wrote: »
    I'm not at coal face of this (as you seem to be given your posts) but I doubt it myself. The UK government does not seem to be in a cooperative & helpful mood of late. (well I say of late, but its been getting worse for years now of course) :(

    The UK have given themselves a transition period until July to work out their end of it whereas the EU went hard on the rules from the 1st of Jan that's why it's a mess.

    There needs to be a lot more noise out of Dublin on this - aimed at the EU and UK or there'll be a lot of hauliers go to the wall.


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    #63
    grayzer75
    Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭grayzer75


    Hurrache wrote: »
    There's been plenty of comment, but the reality is that it's all on the British government and those who have been unprepared.

    That's no good for Irish hauliers or consumers - one will go out of business and the other will have limited choice on the supermarket shelves.


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    #64
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    grayzer75 wrote: »
    The UK have given themselves a transition period until July to work out their end of it whereas the EU went hard on the rules from the 1st of Jan that's why it's a mess.

    There needs to be a lot more noise out of Dublin on this - aimed at the EU and UK or there'll be a lot of hauliers go to the wall.

    ???

    A50 ended last year, we had a 1 year transition period. The UK refused to ask for another (it was not in the gift of the EU to offer).

    The customs requirements have been visible to all and plain to see for a long time now. This falls squarely at the feet of those who refused the acknowledge reality.


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    #65
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,165 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    It's ****ty, but was telegraphed for years as a reality of Brexit.


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    #66
    grayzer75
    Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭grayzer75


    Deleted User wrote: »
    ???

    A50 ended last year, we had a 1 year transition period. The UK refused to ask for another (it was not in the gift of the EU to offer).

    The customs requirements have been visible to all and plain to see for a long time now. This falls squarely at the feet of those who refused the acknowledge reality.

    No a transition from the EU but a transition on documentation and declarations of goods entering the UK.

    The requirements didn't become clear until the 1st of Jan and they're still not fully clear on certain movements e.g. groupage transiting through Dublin and onwards to NI - that's very very cumbersome at the moment.

    The UK don't care about freight moving this way that's why they didn't prepare so we need Dublin to start making more noise about that.


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    #67
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,165 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    There's been plenty of Irish state campaigns, ranging from news and radio, print media, social media, internet.
    e.g.
    https://www.gov.ie/en/campaigns/b2c18-getting-ireland-brexit-ready
    https://www.dfa.ie/brexit/getting-ireland-brexit-ready/

    The Irish state and government can't be found to be at fault.

    There's even a checklist for hauliers
    https://revenue.ie/en/online-services/services/customs/customs-roro-service.aspx


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    #68
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    grayzer75 wrote: »
    No a transition from the EU but a transition on documentation and declarations of goods entering the UK.

    The requirements didn't become clear until the 1st of Jan and they're still not fully clear on certain movements e.g. groupage transiting through Dublin and onwards to NI - that's very very cumbersome at the moment.

    The UK don't care about freight moving this way that's why they didn't prepare so we need Dublin to start making more noise about that.

    The UK had signalled years ago that it was leaving the SM and CU and was becoming a 3rd Country.

    No trade deal was ever to change any of that! It had been flagged well in advance, hence the headlines regarding the UK hiring 50k customs officers etc.

    Any company which has ignored this is going to suffer. We've had years of ads from Government, Government initiatives to "Get Brexit Ready", Government Grants and Brexit specific loans.

    The unprepared ignored all of these and still blame govt?


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    #69
    grayzer75
    Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭grayzer75


    Hurrache wrote: »
    There's been plenty of Irish state campaigns, ranging from news and radio, print media, social media, internet.
    e.g.
    https://www.gov.ie/en/campaigns/b2c18-getting-ireland-brexit-ready
    https://www.dfa.ie/brexit/getting-ireland-brexit-ready/

    The Irish state and government can't be found to be at fault.

    That's grand so, we'll ignore the fact that the Irish hauliers are stuck in the the middle of one side who thinks everything is rosie with nothing else to do and the other who doesn't give a ****e what happens with regard to Irish hauliers or consumers because they got their Brexit.


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    #70
    fly_agaric
    Registered Users Posts: 4,811 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    grayzer75 wrote: »
    The UK have given themselves a transition period until July to work out their end of it whereas the EU went hard on the rules from the 1st of Jan that's why it's a mess.

    There needs to be a lot more noise out of Dublin on this - aimed at the EU and UK or there'll be a lot of hauliers go to the wall.

    There may need to be more support from our government to Irish hauliers (I don't know) but as regards the EU, the UK refused the real + agreed with EU extension they could have availed of, during a global disease pandemic too, purely for domestic political reasons. They are just ignoring rules and letting things slide on their side till July (if they need to to keep imports moving) afaik.


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    #71
    swampgas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭swampgas


    grayzer75 wrote: »
    That's grand so, we'll ignore the fact that the Irish hauliers are stuck in the the middle of one side who thinks everything is rosie with nothing else to do and the other who doesn't give a ****e what happens with regard to Irish hauliers or consumers because they got their Brexit.

    The hauliers are stuck in the middle, but this is all on the UK govt and the UK suppliers not being ready. They voted for it, they got it.

    Like a lot of other people, the hauliers are more collateral damage in England's identity crisis and culture war with the EU.


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    #72
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    grayzer75 wrote: »
    That's grand so, we'll ignore the fact that the Irish hauliers are stuck in the the middle of one side who thinks everything is rosie with nothing else to do and the other who doesn't give a ****e what happens with regard to Irish hauliers or consumers because they got their Brexit.

    I don't understand what you think the Government can do here? Like what actual changes do you think that they could do which would improve things?

    Not a "talk to Brussels" type of answer, but an actual tangible change that they could make?


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    #73
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,165 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    grayzer75 wrote: »
    That's grand so, we'll ignore the fact that the Irish hauliers are stuck in the the middle of one side who thinks everything is rosie with nothing else to do and the other who doesn't give a ****e what happens with regard to Irish hauliers or consumers because they got their Brexit.

    Nobody on the Irish side thinks anything is rosie, like I said, they've been saying for years it won't be.


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    #74
    grayzer75
    Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭grayzer75


    fly_agaric wrote: »
    There may need to be more support from government (I don't know) but as regards the EU, the UK refused the real + agreed with EU extension they could have availed of, during a global disease pandemic too, purely for domestic political reasons. They are just ignoring rules and letting things slide on their side till July (if they need to to keep imports moving) afaik.

    We are are feeling the impact of the UK not getting ready for exports of foodstuffs to Ireland and they couldn't care less about us or rules from what I've seen. They have no where near enough vets to seal trailers and they can't attract any more from the EU.


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    #75
    grayzer75
    Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭grayzer75


    Apologies if I'm coming across sharp at times but it's been a horrendous week this week aargh lol.


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    #76
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    grayzer75 wrote: »
    Apologies if I'm coming across sharp at times but it's been a horrendous week this week aargh lol.

    the frustration is obvious!


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    #77
    fly_agaric
    Registered Users Posts: 4,811 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    grayzer75 wrote: »
    Apologies if I'm coming across sharp at times but it's been a horrendous week this week aargh lol.

    No problem, I sympathise (not that it is much good to you). :(


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    #78
    Gerry T
    Registered Users Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭Gerry T


    grayzer75 wrote: »
    Most of EU to Ireland still comes through UK as there is nowhere near enough capacity on direct routes and the landbridge is quicker/cheaper.

    There won't be much movement from Irl to UK very soon as all the trailers are sitting in the UK at them moment.

    Dublin port had major works to take the MV Celine and sister ship Laureline. The Celine has 8km of lane space and the Laureline 5.5Km, the Celine being the worlds largest short sea RoRo ship. Then DFDS has 2 sailings a day 6 days a week to Dunkirk that's just started. There's many more changes with some ships just moving from delivering to a UK port to an EU one. From what I've read we have moved 80% of our shipping direct to the EU.
    The problem is UK exports, it seems their not in any way prepared, there are little to no queues at their ports but their trucks aren't leaving because of customs issues. Ireland just happens to be the UK's 5th largest export country with 10% of all their exports coming here, Irish importers really need to look at switching supplier as this mess is only going to get far worse as volumes at UK ports increase.
    But very little Irish exports are using the landbridge.


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    #79
    Pablo Escobar
    Registered Users Posts: 636 ✭✭✭Pablo Escobar


    grayzer75 wrote: »
    No a transition from the EU but a transition on documentation and declarations of goods entering the UK.

    The requirements didn't become clear until the 1st of Jan and they're still not fully clear on certain movements e.g. groupage transiting through Dublin and onwards to NI - that's very very cumbersome at the moment.

    The UK don't care about freight moving this way that's why they didn't prepare so we need Dublin to start making more noise about that.

    That's not true. The UK made it clear that they were leaving the Customs Union 4 years ago. And the fact that the protocol (which is now a year old) kept NI in the CU meant that this was clear. It has nothing to do with the deal.


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    #80
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I don't understand what you think the Government can do here? Like what actual changes do you think that they could do which would improve things?

    Not a "talk to Brussels" type of answer, but an actual tangible change that they could make?
    Frustration aside, which is understandable from grayzer75, I do believe that if one is going to blanket blame the Irish Government for this they could have an answer to this question even remotely.


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    #81
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,482 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Mod: Please do not just paste links. A post has been removed.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #82
    grayzer75
    Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭grayzer75


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    Frustration aside, which is understandable from grayzer75, I do believe that if one is going to blanket blame the Irish Government for this they could have an answer to this question even remotely.

    Oh I'm not blaming the Irish government, the blame lies squarely in Whitehall but I'd like to see Irish government ministers challenging their counterparts on what's happening here and now.

    At the end of the day the big fallout will have to be paid for by the Irish consumers as the haulage costs rise and rise as a result of the British mismanagement of the process.


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    #83
    grayzer75
    Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭grayzer75


    Pablo Escobar wrote: »
    That's not true. The UK made it clear that they were leaving the Customs Union 4 years ago. And the fact that the protocol (which is now a year old) kept NI in the CU meant that this was clear. It has nothing to do with the deal.

    You try moving food groupage from the UK to NI via ROI and come back to me - it's not working because nobody seems to know what the process is. You will get a different answer depending on who you talk to.


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    #84
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,165 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    grayzer75 wrote: »
    Oh I'm not blaming the Irish government, the blame lies squarely in Whitehall but I'd like to see Irish government ministers challenging their counterparts on what's happening here and now.

    There were negotiations for years in advance on this. It's what the tory government want, even though it has a detrimental affect on their own business, nothing is going to change that.
    grayzer75 wrote: »
    it's not working because nobody seems to know what the process is. to.

    It's here
    https://revenue.ie/en/online-services/services/customs/customs-roro-service.aspx
    https://revenue.ie/en/customs-traders-and-agents/brexit/advice-for-truck-drivers/index.aspx


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    #85
    View
    Registered Users Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭View


    grayzer75 wrote: »
    Oh I'm not blaming the Irish government, the blame lies squarely in Whitehall but I'd like to see Irish government ministers challenging their counterparts on what's happening here and now.

    At the end of the day the big fallout will have to be paid for by the Irish consumers as the haulage costs rise and rise as a result of the British mismanagement of the process.

    The solution to the latter issue was and is for importers here to replace products from the U.K. with products from the rest of the EU, with the latter arriving into Ireland via direct shipping from the rest of the EU (ie not via the U.K. landbridge).

    It is unreasonable to expect consumers and businesses here to pick up the tab for headaches (and costs) arising for importers who ignored what was coming down the tracks.

    And, yes, the government should have had, and should continue to have, those importers into government offices to make it clear they would be/will be hit by massive fines if they attempt to pass on any such increased costs due to Brexit because they insist on importing from the U.K.


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    #86
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    View wrote: »
    The solution to the latter issue was and is for importers here to replace products from the U.K. with products from the rest of the EU, with the latter arriving into Ireland via direct shipping from the rest of the EU (ie not via the U.K. landbridge).

    It is unreasonable to expect consumers and businesses here to pick up the tab for headaches (and costs) arising for importers who ignored what was coming down the tracks.

    And, yes, the government should have had, and should continue to have, those importers into government offices to make it clear they would be/will be hit by massive fines if they attempt to pass on any such increased costs due to Brexit because they insist on importing from the U.K.
    I will say one thing, although Ireland is a small market, I would have anticipated someone at Amazon would have said "maybe it's not that they like buying these things from the UK" and would have set up some way for Irish consumers to be directed to an EU site, or at least made that process to purchase from an EU Amazon easier.


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    #87
    paul71
    Registered Users Posts: 3,116 ✭✭✭paul71


    grayzer75 wrote: »
    You try moving food groupage from the UK to NI via ROI and come back to me - it's not working because nobody seems to know what the process is. You will get a different answer depending on who you talk to.

    I would dare to say that groupage from the UK is finished in the form we are accustomed to it. Small and medium firms in the UK do not have the software or expertise to deal with the requirements for exports outside their new customs union (England, Wales and Scotland).


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    #88
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,165 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    It's a mess Europe wide, the common denominator being the UK
    https://twitter.com/Joe_Mayes/status/1347463862510092295

    Stuff like this is still happening
    a customer sent them a pallet of manufactured goods to go to France, but didn't provide any accompanying documents, because they didn't think anything needed to be done differently
    ...
    As one logistics source put it: Britain is suddenly having to put customs paperwork on all of its fast-moving, cross-channel trade with the EU, overnight. And the system is already creaking


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    #89
    An Ciarraioch
    Registered Users Posts: 5,803 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    Missed this yesterday, but Cork-Zeebrugge just launched its service, which should ease the pressure on Rosslare:

    https://twitter.com/PortofCork/status/1347136361107750914


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    #90
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 35,744 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Can a truck travel empty going out of Ireland with out the need for customs declaration ?


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    #91
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,165 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    There's nothing to declare for so probably yes, but it makes no financial sense to do so.


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