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Dublin’s traffic it’s a two part problem.

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    #92
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,386 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    do you live in the city ?
    Yes, I live in the city.


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    #93
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    P_1 wrote: »
    So those of us who live in the city have to put up with our streets being clogged by selfish country hicks who don't comprehend that space in the city roads is at a premium?

    Well you'll have to put up and shut up because it's only going to get worse.


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    #94
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Yes, I live in the city.

    So basically this thread is a bunch of people who currently spend hours getting to work and for whome public transport is ineffective, unreliable and uncomfortable , being told that they shouldnt use cars , by two posters so far who cycle around the city they live in and are in work in a few minutes.....

    well done lads.


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    #95
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    the_syco wrote: »
    People don't buy a 3 bed house in the middle of Timbuktu because they want to; it's all they can afford. Oh, sure, they could buy a small two bed apartment, which is great. Unless they want a family. Then it's too small. Irish apartments are tiny!
    Some are, some aren't. Either way it doesn't matter - we can choose to make them bigger at a stroke of a Minister's pen. The problem is that as long as we encourage urban sprawl, and encourage people to buy a 3 bed outside Dublin and enable this as an option by encouraging people to drive to work, the pressure to build higher and bigger apartments isn't there.

    Most of Europe is quite happy with 2 bed apartments and good public transport links. We still run Dublin as if it was a big village, where we all can live on a hill amongst the sheep and green fields, and expect to drive to work in the centre.


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    #96
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,386 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    So basically this thread is a bunch of people who currently spend hours getting to work and for whome public transport is ineffective, unreliable and uncomfortable , being told that they shouldnt use cars , by two posters so far who cycle around the city they live in and are in work in a few minutes.....

    well done lads.


    'The city' is a big place, and you certainly don't cycle from the outskirts into the city in 'a few minutes'. But why would be surprised that those people who live in the city have a vested interest in making it a liveable city, and not a glorified car park?



    If I was to drive to work, it would certainly be hours each day spent in traffic, staring down the arse-end of the car in front. But I don't have time for that messing, so I cycle.


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    #97
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,386 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    Well you'll have to put up and shut up because it's only going to get worse.


    In the short term, you might be right, given that only transport projects being built next year are road widening - but there is a growing awareness that the current model isn't working, and dramatic changes to sustainable transport are required. Those who want to drive a couch to work each day just might see the balance shifting against them, with less road space, less parking, more congestion charges and other policy measures coming down the line.


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    #98
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    In the short term, you might be right, given that only transport projects being built next year are road widening - but there is a growing awareness that the current model isn't working, and dramatic changes to sustainable transport are required. Those who want to drive a couch to work each day just might see the balance shifting against them, with less road space, less parking, more congestion charges and other policy measures coming down the line.

    It's such a typical response.

    Don't improve public transport. Just make the alternative so bad the public have no choice.
    Don't get me wrong, I love cycling in the city. Did it for years when I lived in the city centre, but I'm fairly fit and didn't need to carry work stuff with me.

    I took the bus if I needed to go further afield in Dublin, and drove if I needed to go home or transport anything.

    I had options, but there's plenty who don't. Simply ignoring them or pressuring them into unsuitable modes of transport to please some environmentalists is a huge mistake.


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    #99
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    It's such a typical response.

    Don't improve public transport. Just make the alternative so bad the public have no choice.
    Don't get me wrong, I love cycling in the city. Did it for years when I lived in the city centre, but I'm fairly fit and didn't need to carry work stuff with me.

    I took the bus if I needed to go further afield in Dublin, and drove if I needed to go home or transport anything.

    I had options, but there's plenty who don't. Simply ignoring them or pressuring them into unsuitable modes of transport to please some environmentalists is a huge mistake.

    Which is why we need functional public transport to convince people that parking up and getting a bus and a train is the best way to get into town. If that means private cars lose out on space then so be it. People will realise that 20 minutes on a bus sitting beside (shock horror) another member of the public is much more efficient than spending 2 hours in a traffic jam


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    #100
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,386 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    It's such a typical response.

    Don't improve public transport

    Except that I didn't actually say "Don't improve public transport".


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    #101
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    hmmm wrote: »
    The problem is that as long as we encourage urban sprawl, and encourage people to buy a 3 bed outside Dublin and enable this as an option by encouraging people to drive to work
    People drive to work because either there's no option of public transport to their job, or because it's cheaper than parking in an unsecure parking area and paying for transport into their job.
    hmmm wrote: »
    the pressure to build higher and bigger apartments isn't there.
    Please re-read the thread, and you'll see that I have replied to one of your comments stating that building higher apartments have just very recently being allowed.
    hmmm wrote: »
    Most of Europe is quite happy with 2 bed apartments and good public transport links.
    Dublin only recently joined up its two light rail systems; transport links are an afterthought. Most of Europe must be either happy with small families, or don't know any better.
    hmmm wrote: »
    We still run Dublin as if it was a big village, where we all can live on a hill amongst the sheep and green fields, and expect to drive to work in the centre.
    Dublin is ran like a fcuking crapshow, where the unemployed are given prime real estate near the jobs, and the workers have to commute from outside Dublin to work inside Dublin.


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    #102
    MOH
    Registered Users Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭MOH


    hmmm wrote: »
    We can't be forever held back by people working in some inaccessible part of the city due to where they live.

    If we enforced the use of public transport, people will make choices on the back of this. Should I get a job in Terenure if I live in Laois? Should I buy a smaller house closer to my workplace, rather than buying a 5 bed in the country? Would I pressure my politicians to build a metro & more LUAS lines, rather than giving out about losing part of my garden? Would I like to see more highrise apartments in the city, closer to my workplace?

    It would be difficult in the beginning, but changes would happen. We have a great opportunity considering we are close to full employment - people have choices.

    Tripe


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    #103
    Mystery666
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Mystery666


    Eric Cartman wrote: »

    the M3 parkway also is nowhere near capacity , few cars park there and the trains arent going full, it doesnt work because people just arent into it.

    The M3 Parkway is a good alternative, plenty of car park spaces for free.

    For me personally, why I don't use it is because the M3 Parkway runs directly to the Docklands, and if you're working in dublin city south, it involves switching trains at clonsilla and waiting for around 10 mins for a subsequent train behind you.
    So the commute contains driving for 25 mins, taking 2 trains and a short walk afterwards.

    This method is too lengthy for me personally. I can't speak on others however.


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    #104
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,386 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    the_syco wrote: »
    People drive to work because either there's no option of public transport to their job, or because it's cheaper than parking in an unsecure parking area and paying for transport into their job.
    As we are seeing clearly on this and other threads, some people choose to drive because they can't bear the thought of sitting beside a stranger.


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    #105
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Mystery666 wrote: »
    The M3 Parkway is a good alternative, plenty of car park spaces for free.

    For me personally, why I don't use it is because the M3 Parkway runs directly to the Docklands, and if you're working in dublin city south, it involves switching trains at clonsilla and waiting for around 10 mins for a subsequent train behind you.
    So the commute contains driving for 25 mins, taking 2 trains and a short walk afterwards.

    This method is too lengthy for me personally. I can't speak on others however.

    And thats the real issue, our transport network is so dis integrated that almost any solution involving the likes of the m3 parkway is going to leave somebody standing out in the cold and rain to change trains or walk to another mode of transport and between waiting for that, walking to the office etc.. there mightent be much of a time saving at all , the cost saving is minute and the effort increase is huge


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    #106
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    the_syco wrote: »
    Nuclear weapons; great at lowering the general population.

    Indeed, convince India and China that it'd be a good idea to have a nuclear war with eachother. Until then I'll cycle.
    the_syco wrote: »
    Sounds like people inside Dublin Area. Anything outside said area is costly. So rather than paying for parking in Dublin, people would need to pay for parking outside of Dublin, as well as the price to get public transport into Dublin, followed by multiple other transfers to get to their destination.

    When you decided to live in a place inaccessible to public transport, you hardly did so thinking it'd always be cheap and easy to drive your vehicle into Dublin City Centre?


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    #107
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    Not at all.
    The argument has been done to death.
    You can quite rightly point out all the benefits of cycling, but people don't care. It's a hassle. It's more difficult than driving. Until there's an easier solution then people won't change, and no amount of studies and preaching will change that.
    People are well aware of the benefits of cycling, but most still choose to drive. People are well aware of the benefits of a healthy lifestyle but most still choose to eat whatever they want.

    People are people, and will nearly always choose the path of least resistance.

    Exactly, it's the path of least resistance that needs changing. cycling and buses need to be super easy and convenient and driving needs to be a punishing experience.


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    #108
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    If they do that I'm just gonna stop working. 2.5 hours on buses each way, was hard enough to do it for a month. Not gonna do it again because someone thinks it's how I've got to commute and be punished financially for daring to be the square peg.
    Widespread car bans = more road space for buses = faster buses. You will do it as sure as eggs is eggs, the path of least resistance and all.


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    #109
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    I think congestion zones or these P&R city limits things would only encourage businesses to move just outside of the city. You'd be hard pressed to find many big company directors willing to forgoe the commute in a plush barge, or their 5 bed manor, creating these 'city limits' transport hubs may even end up sending traffic flows backwards, with effective commuter links, city dwellers could easily travel out to their offices at these hubs. Eventually you'd just drive up property prices for commercial and residential wherever these are and you just end up with more sprawl and people commuting from further towns knowing that they now only have to go as far as rathcoole instead of drive the next 45 mins into the city.

    Experience across the world shows that doesn't happen. Most office based employment will centralise in all economic scenarios. Besides you won't get planning anymore for major office schemes that have poor public transport options. New offices being built in Central Dublin have little or no parking as a condition of their planning. There isn't enough office space in the burbs for that to happen and permission won't be granted for it.


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    #110
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    the M3 parkway also is nowhere near capacity , few cars park there and the trains arent going full, it doesnt work because people just arent into it.

    The level crossings on the Maynooth line are to be closed, which will allow for better frequency. Perhaps additional tolls or congestion charging would encourage more to use it.


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    #111
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    This is the mentality you're dealing with.

    Pay higher tax so you can drive to a car park miles from work, wait for a shuttle into town, then a walk or cycle to your job.

    Where's the encouragement there??

    Why would move to somewhere with the intention of driving a long distance into Dublin City Centre everyday. Surely that was a bad decision? Encouraging car use ceased to be public policy in the better run parts of Europe about 30 years ago. You hardly thought that promoting sustainability would never catch on here?


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    #112
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Why would move to somewhere with the intention of driving a long distance into Dublin City Centre everyday. Surely that was a bad decision? Encouraging car use ceased to be public policy in the better run parts of Europe about 30 years ago. You hardly thought that promoting sustainability would never catch on here?

    You are so far out of touch with reality.


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    #113
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    So those of us that have no desire to or cant afford to live in the city should be taxed into oblivion or forced onto cattle cart busses and trains so that you have to deal with less traffic on your already tiny commute ?

    If you say 'can't afford to live in the city' you obviously haven't factored in the cost of travel adequately. The state subsidized car usage was never going to last. Also it would be less of a 'cattle cart' if the PT system had more roadspace and therefore more capacity.


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    #114
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    Well you'll have to put up and shut up because it's only going to get worse.

    Au contraire, we're about 1.5 years away from radical re-allocation of road space in Dublin in favour of PT and cycling.


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    #115
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    So basically this thread is a bunch of people who currently spend hours getting to work and for whome public transport is ineffective, unreliable and uncomfortable , being told that they shouldnt use cars , by two posters so far who cycle around the city they live in and are in work in a few minutes.....

    well done lads.

    Well mostly it's been you trolling because you enjoy being a contrarian.


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    #116
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    Don't improve public transport. Just make the alternative so bad the public have no choice.

    Improving public transport = removing road space from cars and giving it to buses = driving being a worse experience. You can't have one without the other.


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    #117
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    the_syco wrote: »
    People drive to work because either there's no option of public transport to their job, or because it's cheaper than parking in an unsecure parking area and paying for transport into their job.
    /QUOTE]

    While that may be true for some. This thread demonstrates that people also drive into Dublin City Centre, purely out of badness. When you consider the 10s of thousands of people who join the N4 at the Lucan bypass heading inbound in the morning, is it really believable that these are mostly people with no alternatives.


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    #118
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Patww79 wrote: »
    You are so far out of touch with reality.

    How do you figure that?


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    #119
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    cgcsb wrote: »
    If you say 'can't afford to live in the city' you obviously haven't factored in the cost of travel adequately. The state subsidized car usage was never going to last. Also it would be less of a 'cattle cart' if the PT system had more roadspace and therefore more capacity.

    The cost of travel has nothing to do with my ability to afford city living , Id need a car in general whether living in the city or not ,so that expense goes nowhere, but living in a cramped apartment in the city with a parking space would cost me 3x what I pay in rent right now and make a transport cost saving of a 10er a day


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    #120
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    The cost of travel has nothing to do with my ability to afford city living , Id need a car in general whether living in the city or not ,so that expense goes nowhere, but living in a cramped apartment in the city with a parking space would cost me 3x what I pay in rent right now and make a transport cost saving of a 10er a day

    So what do you want transport policy to be? the present one doesn't work.


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    #121
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Improving public transport = removing road space from cars and giving it to buses = driving being a worse experience. You can't have one without the other.

    If course you can, but it needs to start outside Dublin.
    There's tens of thousands commuting to Dublin from Louth, Kildare, Wicklow and further.

    Plenty of bus services too, but nowhere to park to get the bus. I stopped getting the bus from Drogheda because it was more hassle finding and paying for a space in Drogheda, paying for the coach bus, then paying for a Dublin bus.

    Sure I can drive. It's more expensive, but far less hassle and time. If there was a free car park it would have made public transport more appealing.


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