The End for Youghal?

22-11-2016 12:38am

L1011 wrote: »

Few of those will be extremely controversial. The North Kerry was abandoned but not sold off I thought? I would assume its to avoid structure upkeep on the Greenway and make the councils do it, if anything.

I think you're right actually. I just remembered that if you come off the N21 after Rathkeale and take the R523, you'll come across a bridge with a standard Irish Rail bridge code. Found it on Google Maps.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@52.5114537,-9.0071485,3a,37.5y,180.93h,61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8lCyK4l3ttL-wWZ6Vpl9Bg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Del.Monte · 22-11-2016 1:02am

Karsini wrote: »

Some of the lines they want to abandon:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/iarnrod-eireann-seeks-to-permanently-axe-10-closed-lines-430881.html

Waterford-Rosslare Harbour
Claremorris-Collooney
Midleton-Youghal
Navan-Kingscourt
Abbey Junction-New Ross
Mullingar-Athlone
Limerick-Foynes
Tralee-Fenit
Ballingrane-Tralee

Ballingrane-Tralee was already abandoned in 1987 surely?

There is no earthly way that red highlighted lines should be sanctioned for abandonment.

Infini · 22-11-2016 8:26am

MGWR wrote: »

Disgraceful. More than enough money was spent on the Midleton extension to reopen the line all the way to Youghal. Time to rewrite the law for privatisation of railways.

To be honest on the one hand its a joke some rail lines are abandoned when there could be a potential for visbility. The waterford rosslare section for example was closed down in 2010 but it was used a year or 2 later to move DMUs after the bridge at lansdowne station was damaged in floods.

On the other hand the government deliberately underfunded IR to the point it risks insolvency in which case of course the company would seek to cut any costs it can expecially if its not making any money at all on those abandoned sections. Realistically money needs to be made available and some stuff restored.

whisky_galore · 22-11-2016 9:06am

L1011 wrote: »

Few of those will be extremely controversial. The North Kerry was abandoned but not sold off I thought? I would assume its to avoid structure upkeep on the Greenway and make the councils do it, if anything.

The North Kerry Greenway isn't getting any further west of the Kerry border beyond Abbeyfeale nor progressing beyond the site of 3rd(?) level crossing of Fenit branch with landowner issues, so that's at a stalemate.

Consonata · 23-11-2016 6:26pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

There is no earthly way that red highlighted lines should be sanctioned for abandonment.

Honestly, neither should the Claremorris - Colooney line be. I mean I know WRC is a controversial subject here, but if we support the idea of rail in any form. A Sligo - Cork route has to be considered worth maintaining at the absolute least.

It's shocking that they are closing all 400km of track for the sake of what.

€3 million?

An absolute drop in the ocean, where is that money even going that it is worth closing all those lines?

Isambard · 23-11-2016 8:37pm

Sligo to Cork? No problem, change at Connolly.

Itssoeasy · 23-11-2016 9:07pm

Well I'm biased towards youghal and traveled to Midleton last weekend on the train. And IR fair play made a great job of the reopened portioned and the town seems alive and the area around the station looked great and they made a beautiful job of the signal box which I was convinced they would demolish.

I know that my memories of youghal railway station isn't a valid reason to keep the line technically open. My earliest memory in a railway setting of any kind is trying to move the turntable and failing at Age 5.

roundymac · 24-11-2016 11:23am

What were the loadings on the train like?, from what I'v seen it seems to be doing ok.

Itssoeasy · 24-11-2016 1:02pm

roundymac wrote: »

What were the loadings on the train like?, from what I'v seen it seems to be doing ok.

Well going down early it was fairly ok and then when I left at 16:30 the crowds coming off the train was very healthy indeed. I mean crowds of people getting off. Now this was a Saturday so I don't know how that translates to weekdays. But the way they have cleaned up the station and kept the signal cabin and made it look lovely.

Carawaystick · 28-11-2016 1:23pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

There is no earthly way that red highlighted lines should be sanctioned for abandonment.

Well the Mullingar Athlone line is a tarmac greenway now...

whisky_galore · 28-11-2016 1:26pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

Well the Mullingar Athlone line is a tarmac greenway now...

Shared greenway. The rails were left in place on one side.

goingnowhere · 28-11-2016 1:43pm

Consonata wrote: »

It's shocking that they are closing all 400km of track for the sake of what.

€3 million?

An absolute drop in the ocean, where is that money even going that it is worth closing all those lines?

Its 3 million a year, every year plus elimination of future legal liability to maintain rights of way over/under/across the line

It doesn't impact the train service, its a total win win with no downside as lets face it we ain't seeing trains north of Tuam for decades if not ever

Jem72 · 28-11-2016 2:00pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

Shared greenway. The rails were left in place on one side.

While the rails were left in place, they are purely decorative. The greenway swaps side several times and the wooden sleepers are in such a decrepit state that a total relay would be required.

The greenway will keep the right of way intact but there is no way it could peacefully co-exist with an active railway on that alignment. But, maintaining the right of way is the primary advantage and this should be done on pretty much every closed railway.

whisky_galore · 28-11-2016 3:03pm

Jem72 wrote: »

While the rails were left in place, they are purely decorative. The greenway swaps side several times and the wooden sleepers are in such a decrepit state that a total relay would be required.

The greenway will keep the right of way intact but there is no way it could peacefully co-exist with an active railway on that alignment. But, maintaining the right of way is the primary advantage and this should be done on pretty much every closed railway.

That's what I meant, those rails and sleepers couldn't take anything heavier than a rail cycle. Right of way preserved, that's all...for now.

end of the road · 28-11-2016 3:10pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

Its 3 million a year, every year plus elimination of future legal liability to maintain rights of way over/under/across the line

It doesn't impact the train service, its a total win win with no downside as lets face it we ain't seeing trains north of Tuam for decades if not ever

plenty of downsides, but i agree with you they won't matter as long as the politicians are convinced abandoning state infrastructure will save huge money.

marno21 · 29-11-2016 2:08am

I think that if Collooney-Claremorris is ever reopened it has to be on a new/highly upgraded alignment. The current one is effectively a tramway with all the level crossings and the low speed possible on the alignment.

It surely wouldn't cost that much more and would provide a much much better level of service.

XPS_Zero · 29-11-2016 3:16am

I'm surprised nobody has asked this but...is there any possible demand for this line if it opened? What's the surrounding population density and pop in general like?

Surely it's time to scrap it OR open it, maintaining it while closed seems pointless

Banjoxed · 29-11-2016 9:09am

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I'm surprised nobody has asked this but...is there any possible demand for this line if it opened? What's the surrounding population density and pop in general like?

Surely it's time to scrap it OR open it, maintaining it while closed seems pointless

Given that AFAIK the track has gone back to nature beyond Midleton, its moot as to whether Irish Rail is doing anything at all with the line. Are they claiming any particular sum of money that they could "save" by its abandonment?

The wisdom of separating track maintenance from operation is apparent.

whisky_galore · 29-11-2016 9:15am

Banjoxed wrote: »

Given that AFAIK the track has gone back to nature beyond Midleton, its moot as to whether Irish Rail is doing anything at all with the line. Are they claiming any particular sum of money that they could "save" by its abandonment?

The wisdom of separating track maintenance from operation is apparent.

'Care and maintenance' is non existant, apart from putting fencing around Youghal station to prevent the local branch of Mensa from torching it again and work to road bridges, some of which have been renewed already.

n97 mini · 29-11-2016 10:57am

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I'm surprised nobody has asked this but...is there any possible demand for this line if it opened? What's the surrounding population density and pop in general like?

Surely it's time to scrap it OR open it, maintaining it while closed seems pointless

Looking at gmaps, aside from Youghal there isn't much else. Presumably some of those inclined to use the train already drive to Midleton and park and ride from there. Midleton is not mad busy, all trains are only 4 cars.

roundymac · 29-11-2016 12:00pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

'Care and maintenance' is non existant, apart from putting fencing around Youghal station to prevent the local branch of Mensa from torching it again and work to road bridges, some of which have been renewed already.

They were ordered to do that and reroof the station under derilect buildings ledgislation by the council.

Carawaystick · 29-11-2016 12:17pm

Population of Youghal is about 10k.
Hard to see enough passengers to justify rebuilding a train line, especially as the road will be upgraded, and thta will provide connectivity to Waterford as well as Cork. The wrc and Nenagh lines at least have potential for connecting to places at both ends.

end of the road · 29-11-2016 3:03pm

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I'm surprised nobody has asked this but...is there any possible demand for this line if it opened? What's the surrounding population density and pop in general like?

Surely it's time to scrap it OR open it, maintaining it while closed seems pointless

protecting rail routes is not pointless. it insures the land can be re-used as a railway again if ever needed. the routes as they are cost absolutely nothing.

whisky_galore · 29-11-2016 5:59pm

XPS_Zero wrote: »

Surely it's time to scrap it OR open it, maintaining it while closed seems pointless

That was the mindset of fifty years ago.

loyatemu · 30-11-2016 12:24pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

That was the mindset of fifty years ago.

50 years ago they were closing lines that already had services running on them. These lines haven't seen a train in decades (in most cases) but are still costing money to maintain.

This money comes from somewhere and could be better used somewhere else - it could even be used to improve services on (say) the Ballybrophy line (I don't actually think this is a good idea, but I'd rather see the transport budget spent on running transport than maintaining old infrastructure that has zero chance of being reopened).

The big mistake in the past was selling off the land, or allowing it to fall into adverse possession, but we now have the option of turning old lines into Greenways, that's what should be done with all these lines (except maybe South Wexford as it's such a recent closure).

end of the road · 30-11-2016 4:06pm

loyatemu wrote: »

50 years ago they were closing lines that already had services running on them. These lines haven't seen a train in decades (in most cases) but are still costing money to maintain.

says CIE. the reality is rather different i suspect.
for example. youghal has had much of the track lifted for years. wrc had an inspection car i think 10 years ago. kingscourt has had nothing since 2002/3 i believe and is heavily over grown. athlone mullingar either a weedsprayer or inspection car around 2002/3 was the last movement apparently. costing money all right.

loyatemu wrote: »

This money comes from somewhere and could be better used somewhere else - it could even be used to improve services on (say) the Ballybrophy line (I don't actually think this is a good idea, but I'd rather see the transport budget spent on running transport than maintaining old infrastructure that has zero chance of being reopened).

you would swear we were talking about millions here. if this money even exists i suspect it will be a couple of grand to send someone to inspect the structures and nothing more. the only line which might be having a bit spent on it is rosslare waterford and even that has a 5mph speed on it now apparently, so wouldn't be costing barely anything. abandoning these lines won't bring improvements elswhere on the railway. that's not how we work in ireland.

loyatemu wrote: »

The big mistake in the past was selling off the land, or allowing it to fall into adverse possession, but we now have the option of turning old lines into Greenways, that's what should be done with all these lines (except maybe South Wexford as it's such a recent closure).

turning them into greenways doesn't guarantee the land can be taken back either. just look at the uk.

whisky_galore · 30-11-2016 4:15pm

end of the road wrote: »

turning them into greenways doesn't guarantee the land can be taken back either. just look at the uk.

Next to impossible to prise them from the walkers and cyclists once they've got their hands on them.
There was a ridiculous situation in the uk where a branch could have been reopened to china clay traffic, but it was already converted into a so-called greenway. Heavy lorries thundering through small villages ended up being the only option. 'Greenway' my foot.

end of the road · 30-11-2016 4:59pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

Next to impossible to prise them from the walkers and cyclists once they've got their hands on them.
There was a ridiculous situation in the uk where a branch could have been reopened to china clay traffic, but it was already converted into a so-called greenway. Heavy lorries thundering through small villages ended up being the only option. 'Greenway' my foot.

yes that's right. a certain group who are supposibly huge supporters of public transport, were behind the stifeling of the project. you couldn't make it up.

Quackster · 01-12-2016 4:36pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

The North Kerry Greenway isn't getting any further west of the Kerry border beyond Abbeyfeale nor progressing beyond the site of 3rd(?) level crossing of Fenit branch with landowner issues, so that's at a stalemate.

IE is in the process of transferring ownership of the Tralee/Fenit and North Kerry lines to Kerry Co Co and the two lines have to be legally abandoned first. There was an issue over ducting the fibre that's laid along the North Kerry line which delayed things but that's been resolved now and the transfer should complete over the next few weeks.

Work is progressing on developing greenway on the sections from Tralee to Fenit and Abbeyfeale to Listowel and hopefully funding will be secured to progress these to construction in the very near future.

Definitely think this is the only realistic sensible option for most of the other lines, except those of particular strategic value such as Limerick/Foynes.

whisky_galore · 01-12-2016 4:57pm

Quackster wrote: »

IE is in the process of transferring ownership of the Tralee/Fenit and North Kerry lines to Kerry Co Co. There was an issue over ducting the fibre that's laid along the North Kerry line which delayed things but that's been resolved now and the transfer should complete over the next few weeks.

Work is progressing on developing greenway on the sections from Tralee to Fenit and Abbeyfeale to Listowel and hopefully funding will be secured to progress these to construction in the very near future.

Definitely think this is the only realistic sensible option for most of the other lines, except those of particular strategic value such as Limerick/Foynes.

CIE Property takes aeons to do anything. The transfer won't make any difference to the obstructionists.

The End for Youghal?

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