Railfreight

road_high · 04-01-2019 12:53am

Disappointing to see the Belview freight trains gone, used to enjoy seeing (and hearing them, no mistaking that noise) go up and down the line.
Presume the Coilte timber trains are still going on the Waterford line? Do they drop directly to the factory?

Stephen15 · 04-01-2019 12:58am

IE 222 wrote: »

I can't see full trains been made up but maybe 5 - 10 with containers filling the rest. A lot of UK companies especially retailers still send trailers over to Dublin Port to shipped nationwide.

Quite restrictive if there only one train a day or sometimes only two or three a week. You'd also be limited in where you send the trucks pretty much you'd be limited to Ballina. Also depending on what IE would charge it may be cheaper to pay for diesel there and back, the time it takes to load trailers on and off the wagons and a haulier may get a return load.

IE 222 · 04-01-2019 1:54am

Stephen15 wrote: »

Quite restrictive if there only one train a day or sometimes only two or three a week. You'd also be limited in where you send the trucks pretty much you'd be limited to Ballina. Also depending on what IE would charge it may be cheaper to pay for diesel there and back, the time it takes to load trailers on and off the wagons and a haulier may get a return load.

Well obviously it would require more freight services been created to work effectively otherwise its just a case of reducing the number of containers been carried which is a pointless exercise. This would be an investment in expansion rather than replacing current stock. For example there could demand for container services in other cities but not enough to fill a train and maybe offering this additional service could attract more customers and make it worth starting.

Not sure how IE currently fair with pricing compared to haulage companies but surely anything over 2 or 3 shipments per company makes them more competitive.

These low loaders are loaded extremely quickly. A full train (25 trucks) can be done in 30-45mins.

Stephen15 · 04-01-2019 2:43am

IE 222 wrote: »

These low loaders are loaded extremely quickly. A full train (25 trucks) can be done in 30-45mins.

30-45 mins loading time at either end would add up an hour and a half onto to each journey considering most journeys by road to any major town or city in the country can be done in less than 3 hours I really can't see such a service ever really taking off.

Unfortunately I can't really see much demand for rail freight in Ireland as IEs main freight were bulk freight such as cement, sugar beet, Guinness, fertiliser etc.

marno21 · 04-01-2019 2:55am

If rail freight is unviable under current terms it's upto Government to set policy to make it more attractive

Given the level of passenger subsidy in Ireland on certain lines something similar may have merit for freight movements

Isambard · 04-01-2019 4:29am

Stephen15 wrote: »

Quite restrictive if there only one train a day or sometimes only two or three a week. You'd also be limited in where you send the trucks pretty much you'd be limited to Ballina. Also depending on what IE would charge it may be cheaper to pay for diesel there and back, the time it takes to load trailers on and off the wagons and a haulier may get a return load.

quite right. Flexibility is the name of the game and there just isn't enough traffic to warrant the service levels necessary to attract more business. The hauls are too short and the service too infrequent. Sad but true.

IE 222 · 04-01-2019 11:07am

Stephen15 wrote: »

30-45 mins loading time at either end would add up an hour and a half onto to each journey considering most journeys by road to any major town or city in the country can be done in less than 3 hours I really can't see such a service ever really taking off.

Unfortunately I can't really see much demand for rail freight in Ireland as IEs main freight were bulk freight such as cement, sugar beet, Guinness, fertiliser etc.

I dont think an extra hour or two loading is really going to be major factor in this scenario as most of these trailers are left waiting in Dublin port before been collected either way. Ireland doesn't operate a just in time delivery system like the UK so a few hours isn't really going to be deciding factor.

IE let the freight business slip. The potential is there, Cork had 3 container services a day in the early 2000s as well as every other major city or town having 1 service.

L1011 · 04-01-2019 11:17am

There absolutely are JIT supply chains in operation here, and have been for decades

IE 222 · 04-01-2019 11:25am

L1011 wrote: »

There absolutely are JIT supply chains in operation here, and have been for decades

Not to the extent of the UK and its a relatively small percentage that operate it. An extra hour or two travel time is not going to effect many companies here.

IE 222 · 04-01-2019 11:35am

Isambard wrote: »

quite right. Flexibility is the name of the game and there just isn't enough traffic to warrant the service levels necessary to attract more business. The hauls are too short and the service too infrequent. Sad but true.

The service is infrequent as nobody is making any great effort to put freight onto rails. The capability is there but just needs more heads to come together to make it work. Flexibility and capacity will increase naturally once services begin to develop.

roundymac · 04-01-2019 12:55pm

marno21 wrote: »

If rail freight is unviable under current terms it's upto Government to set policy to make it more attractive

Given the level of passenger subsidy in Ireland on certain lines something similar may have merit for freight movements

AFAIK thet were made remove subsidies from freight by the EU back in the early naughties, Mary Harney was the minister at the time. The attempt by the unions to set up ILDA did'nt help either.

road_high · 04-01-2019 2:35pm

See no reason why the likes of glanbia can’t ship product via rail. Bulk milk powders and cheese are surely perfect candidates. Would take hundreds if not 1000s of yearly truck movements off the roads

Isambard · 04-01-2019 6:55pm

IE 222 wrote: »

Not to the extent of the UK and its a relatively small percentage that operate it. An extra hour or two travel time is not going to effect many companies here.

erm, ALDI, LIDL,TESCO,to name but three. Automotive components is another, there's loads of JIT nowadays.

IE 222 · 04-01-2019 9:58pm

Isambard wrote: »

erm, ALDI, LIDL,TESCO,to name but three. Automotive components is another, there's loads of JIT nowadays.

Fresh produce will obviously be a JIT operation but the vast majority of companies operating here wouldn't have such strick time slots. They are given a specific day and possibly a period of the day to deliver on but not to an exact time. An extra hour spent loading a container or trailer onto a train is no excuse for it not to work.

IE 222 · 04-01-2019 10:47pm

road_high wrote: »

See no reason why the likes of glanbia can’t ship product via rail. Bulk milk powders and cheese are surely perfect candidates. Would take hundreds if not 1000s of yearly truck movements off the roads

Do they still send truck loads of milk, cream, yoghurts from Kilkenny up to Drogheada for Dublin.

road_high · 04-01-2019 10:54pm

IE 222 wrote: »

Do they still send truck loads of milk, cream, yoghurts from Kilkenny up to Drogheada for Dublin.

Not sure but they send a lot of container traffic via Dublin and Waterford ports in addition to bulk product.
Glanbia don’t make yoghurt anymore, their Gorey plant closed a few years ago!
Their main plants are Ballyragget, Belview, Virginia, with the two liquid milk plants in Ballitore and Drogheda.

Stephen15 · 04-01-2019 11:33pm

Never thought that rail was suitable for perishable goods

IE 222 · 04-01-2019 11:52pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Never thought that rail was suitable for perishable goods

Why not.

road_high · 05-01-2019 12:12am

Stephen15 wrote: »

Never thought that rail was suitable for perishable goods

Not raw milk perhaps but cheese and milk powders would be fine

tabbey · 05-01-2019 12:30am

road_high wrote: »

Not raw milk perhaps but cheese and milk powders would be fine

Before motor road vehicles took over freight in a big way, liquid milk was conveyed by rail to Dublin from all over the country.

Looking at newspaper reports of watered down milk cases in the 1920s, two instances came to mind, one sample checked at Kingsbridge (Heuston) had come from Charleville, another only 6 or 7 miles away, from Lucan.

Similar checks were being performed at Harcourt Street, of milk from Wicklow and Wexford.

IE 222 · 05-01-2019 2:16am

Do IE not already transport refrigerated containers.

GM228 · 07-01-2019 9:38pm

IE 222 wrote: »

Do IE not already transport refrigerated containers.

Yes, but they are not plugged in.

They have in the past looked at having a generator container on trains with through wiring throughout the wagons to keep them cool but nothing came of it.

Isambard · 08-01-2019 10:26am

GM228 wrote: »

Yes, but they are not plugged in.

They have in the past looked at having a generator container on trains with through wiring throughout the wagons to keep them cool but nothing came of it.

surely they'd have built in fridge plants

IE 222 · 08-01-2019 12:36pm

GM228 wrote: »

Yes, but they are not plugged in.

They have in the past looked at having a generator container on trains with through wiring throughout the wagons to keep them cool but nothing came of it.

Do they not have their own power source. Refrigerated containers usually have a built in motor. The plug in is for long term transport/storage.

GM228 · 08-01-2019 3:58pm

IE 222 wrote: »

Do they not have their own power source. Refrigerated containers usually have a built in motor. The plug in is for long term transport/storage.

They have battery back up, but I believe they only last a day or two.

andrewfaulk · 08-01-2019 6:54pm

GM228 wrote: »

They have battery back up, but I believe they only last a day or two.

There is no power source in about 95% of sea freight reefer containers..

The two solutions are a genset wagon as mentioned above, here’s a good link to a company using this in Spain: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F1OJS6krvoc

The other is a genset per container, which is used in the US and Canada over huge distances..
Here’s an example: http://www.matts-place.com/intermodal/part1/ref/ponu2878407.jpg

L1011 · 26-01-2019 12:34am

So, for those who thought that Irish Cement could be convinced back on board; one large customer was Tegral in Athy who used the stub of the Wolfhill branch (with a ridiculous reversing manoeuvre required)

The alignment here is now going to be used for a relief road and footpath. Which rather buggers that up.

At least the historic bridge will be restored/retained.

Interestingly, there's a housing estate in Athy built across but not over the alignment beyond Tegral - a very significant gap is left for it. There is zero chance of that line ever reopening so unless that land is still CIE owned I don't see why they did it!

tabbey · 26-01-2019 10:41pm

Another nail in the coffin of the Irish railway as far as freight is concerned, but realistically the cement traffic to the rooftile factory was never going to return. Does the factory still exist?

Athy is always congested, like many Irish country towns. The only wonder is that Kildare Co Co did not plan to build a road through that corridor before now.
The crazy thing is that even if they build this road, Athy will continue to be blocked with traffic, due to the council traffic management. It never fails to amaze me how across the border, similar sized towns have much smoother traffic flows.

bg07 · 03-05-2019 9:34am

Increased rail services between Dublin Port and Ballina

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/roundup/articles/2019/05/01/4173397-increased-rail-services-between-dublin-port-and-ballina/

Magpie1951 · 03-05-2019 12:44pm

I wonder who is the customer in Tuam that uses the IWT rail frieght service to Ballina and why they don't use the motorways if it so superior to rail freight?

IE 222 · 05-05-2019 12:59pm

I presume most of this is ex Waterford traffic. Has the extended train lengths been dropped. This would of provided the extra 30% increase without having to run additional services.

Interesting to see a retail company using the service. Does anyone know if this one of the big supermarkets?

Wonder how much traffic is been forwarded onto Letterkenny or if there is anything for Sligo as well.

BlackandGreen · 05-05-2019 9:58pm

Theres still freight traffic several times a week on the Waterford line.
With brexit the Irish port/shipping industry is thriving so I presume that has a lot to do with it.

road_high · 06-05-2019 8:04am

BlackandGreen wrote: »

Theres still freight traffic several times a week on the Waterford line.
With brexit the Irish port/shipping industry is thriving so I presume that has a lot to do with it.

There's certainly timber freight but is there container stuff? Who's running it?

andrewfaulk · 06-05-2019 10:02am

road_high wrote: »

There's certainly timber freight but is there container stuff? Who's running it?

No container trains between Ballina and Waterford anymore, Dublin-Ballina only at the moment

Captain Chaos · 16-07-2019 9:55am

Looks like alot or work going on at Sligo freight yard and the branch spur from the station down to the yard. The yard is being cleared and new track panel are being laid.

Timbre flow returning perhaps?

Del.Monte · 16-07-2019 10:56am

Prelude to track lifting for a greenway?

Captain Chaos · 16-07-2019 11:16am

Del.Monte wrote: »

Prelude to track lifting for a greenway?

They seem to be renewing the track along the spur to the yard. At first it looked like lifting.

andrewfaulk · 17-07-2019 7:51pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

They seem to be renewing the track along the spur to the yard. At first it looked like lifting.

Any pictures?

andrewfaulk · 17-07-2019 7:56pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

They seem to be renewing the track along the spur to the yard. At first it looked like lifting.

Any pictures?

Del.Monte · 17-07-2019 8:50pm

andrewfaulk wrote: »

Any pictures?

Some recent pics here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2016302075275558/

on the Ireland's Abandoned & Dismantled Railways page.

h.gricer · 18-07-2019 12:59pm

From what I've heard from a good source, the Sligo freight yard is only being used as a ''works site'' for storing newly arrived panels, to relay from the station down to a buffer stop just before the Finisklin Road over bridge, this siding is still in daily use for storing ICR railcars. The bridge that spans Finisklin Road has a locomotive ban in place since 2009 and railcars after that, looking at photos on FB some light equipment ''Atlas diggers'' crossed the bridge carrying in the new panels for the relaying, this was one of the reasons why timber traffic was suspended in 2008, recently a figure of €5m price tag was put on reopening the line and renewing the bridge span over Finisklin Road, with that sort of money it probably won't happen, the land will possible be sold off for development. Longford is now being considered for timber traffic, but probably won't happen till next year at the earliest.
The bridge over Finisklin Road is a nice structure with cut stone tunnel arches on ether side for pedestrians with a center metal span, it's not unique as such, as we have similar structures in Dublin between Pearse Station and Lansdowne Road, but I wonder did it have a stone arch back in the day and later replaced with a metal span, not a wise replacement, I remember taking a beautiful photo of RPSI steam locomotive 461 sitting on the Finisklin Bridge on an early Sunday morning back in 1997, Finisklin Road, a quite place on a Sunday morning in Sligo.
Regards
h.gricer

Isambard · 18-07-2019 2:19pm

copyright Me :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FHqQIQzPpA

Jamie2k9 · 18-07-2019 5:20pm

h.gricer wrote: »

From what I've heard from a good source, the Sligo freight yard is only being used as a ''works site'' for storing newly arrived panels, to relay from the station down to a buffer stop just before the Finisklin Road over bridge, this siding is still in daily use for storing ICR railcars. The bridge that spans Finisklin Road has a locomotive ban in place since 2009 and railcars after that, looking at photos on FB some light equipment ''Atlas diggers'' crossed the bridge carrying in the new panels for the relaying, this was one of the reasons why timber traffic was suspended in 2008, recently a figure of €5m price tag was put on reopening the line and renewing the bridge span over Finisklin Road, with that sort of money it probably won't happen, the land will possible be sold off for development. Longford is now being considered for timber traffic, but probably won't happen till next year at the earliest.
The bridge over Finisklin Road is a nice structure with cut stone tunnel arches on ether side for pedestrians with a center metal span, it's not unique as such, as we have similar structures in Dublin between Pearse Station and Lansdowne Road, but I wonder did it have a stone arch back in the day and later replaced with a metal span, not a wise replacement, I remember taking a beautiful photo of RPSI steam locomotive 461 sitting on the Finisklin Bridge on an early Sunday morning back in 1997, Finisklin Road, a quite place on a Sunday morning in Sligo.
Regards
h.gricer

5m sounds extremely high, been conservative the bridge is probably 1.7-2m.

Then again its what happens when you neglect infrastructure even during the good times. Its a poor reflection on IE that this was part of 2008 suspension of services. Hard to see any valid reason for them not renewing it in 2007/2008 if it was in poor condition.

andrewfaulk · 18-07-2019 6:28pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

5m sounds extremely high, been conservative the bridge is probably 1.7-2m.

Then again its what happens when you neglect infrastructure even during the good times. Its a poor reflection on IE that this was part of 2008 suspension of services. Hard to see any valid reason for them not renewing it in 2007/2008 if it was in poor condition.

The figure I heard was 500k to make it usable for timber trains.. But I didn’t hear about the bridge part.. €5m doesn’t seem right, bridge or no

IE 222 · 15-08-2019 9:54pm

Has the 30% increase in Ballina freight reported awhile back commenced yet?

Jamie2k9 · 17-08-2019 8:22am

IE 222 wrote: »

Has the 30% increase in Ballina freight reported awhile back commenced yet?

No, supposed to be another test run tomorrow.

Thrashssacre · 17-08-2019 9:35am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

No, supposed to be another test run tomorrow.

A test with 27 car trains like they did a couple of years back?

Jamie2k9 · 17-08-2019 10:18am

Thrashssacre wrote: »

A test with 27 car trains like they did a couple of years back?

Not sure its 27 anymore, I think during other tests they reduced it by a couple. Not sure how long now but might be 24.

andrewfaulk · 17-08-2019 3:50pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Not sure its 27 anymore, I think during other tests they reduced it by a couple. Not sure how long now but might be 24.

The next test is 21 wagons on Sunday 24th, the one for the 10th was cancelled due to driver shortage as the drivers were needed for Mayo GAA specials on the Saturday and it’s holiday time of the year..

The 30% thing was the service increasing to 9 trains a week each way.. The schedule is in place but it hasn’t been necessary to run that number of trains recently due to a number of changes to shipping arrangements

Jamie2k9 · 17-08-2019 4:33pm

andrewfaulk wrote: »

The next test is 21 wagons on Sunday 24th, the one for the 10th was cancelled due to driver shortage as the drivers were needed for Mayo GAA specials on the Saturday and it’s holiday time of the year..

The 30% thing was the service increasing to 9 trains a week each way.. The schedule is in place but it hasn’t been necessary to run that number of trains recently due to a number of changes to shipping arrangements

Is the reduction from 27 to 24 to 21 for comparison of performance or necessary operationally. If they drop any more the whole exercise will be pointless.

The timber trail from 12 to 18?, no tests since. Not happening anymore?

Railfreight

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