Hyundai Kona EV pre orders open

unkel wrote: »

Not a mystery at all. Leaf has very old and inefficient drivetrain. And Kona gets the most efficient drivetrain ever made

That would suggest that the IONIQ's range is more to do with the drivetrain than the aerodynamics, which you remind us about on a regular basis!

And tbh, Im starting to think that that is the magic sauce that Hyundai have... its not Cd, its almost all down to the drivetrain.... motor, inverter's, reduction gear etc. It would explain a lot. Of course Cd matters but maybe its the drivetrain is the bigger element.

I remember reading somewhere that Nissan developed their motor to be most efficient for slower speeds which rings through when you see how it performs on the motorway. Hyundai must have went for a better middle ground.

And I think the dual motor Tesla's use two different motors to give max efficiency at slow and high speed.

The issue with the new Leaf and charging also suggest that Nissan are still in the same mindset... the Leaf is for tootling around in, not bombing up the motorway.... probably suits Japan and their lower speed limits.... they need to take a look around the world!


Another stat I dug into for this Kona is the rear space.... it looks like a smaller car but in fact it seems to be wider than the old Leaf which I've measured.... that makes the Kona a distinct possibility for me.... must get into a petrol one with the kids and see how it fits... might do the job fine for a few years until they become teenagers.

KCross wrote: »

Im starting to think that that is the magic sauce that Hyundai have... its not Cd, its almost all down to the drivetrain.... motor, inverter's, reduction gear etc. It would explain a lot. Of course Cd matters but maybe its the drivetrain is the bigger element..

Nah, I don't believe that. All the tests we have seen were done at ridiculously low speeds. Sure Ioniq is more efficient but it doesn't really matter as driving on electric is super cheap anyway. 40% less cheap than very cheap is still cheap. The only time it matters is when it comes to long distance driving

If someone out there was brave enough to do a 120km/h real speed long distance race between Ioniq and whatever other budget EV, the results would be truly shocking.

unkel wrote: »

Nah, I don't believe that. All the tests we have seen were done at ridiculously low speeds.

Isnt that proving my point. Even at low speed where Cd has very little to do with range the IONIQ still beats everyone else for range with the same usable capacity.... so that HAS to be down to primarily drivetrain efficiency.

Of course, as you increase speed Cd will come into play more, but Im thinking the efficient drivetrain still plays a bigger part in the difference.

I guess its somewhat a pointless discussion as we cant get figures for each piece (drivetrain vs Cd) but this Kona again giving brilliant mpge figures for what is a meh Cd value is intriguing.

Clearly Hyundai are good at Cd and drivetrain... if only they could produce more! Hyundai unions saying EV is evil doesnt help either! https://electrek.co/2018/03/27/electric-cars-disasters-evil-says-hyundai-union-head/

unkel wrote: »

Sure Ioniq is more efficient but it doesn't really matter as driving on electric is super cheap anyway. 40% less cheap than very cheap is still cheap. The only time it matters is when it comes to long distance driving

Not sure what your point is there. Thats a financial discussion. Im just talking about how Hyundai get more range out of the same amount of energy.

unkel wrote: »

If someone out there was brave enough to do a 120km/h real speed long distance race between Ioniq and whatever other budget EV, the results would be truly shocking.

Has that not been done? I thought it had.

Just had a look around the Kona, (not the electric obviously) and it's very nice.

Not as small as I had feared, although the boot is quite a bit smaller than my Leaf.

Nice interior, much better than the 2018 Leaf. Nice layout. Not a bad looking car at all.

If they can get them here in any kind of decent numbers I'm certainly keen. I don't trust Nissan as far as I could throw them. The 24kwh had the rear axle issue that they denied responsibility for. The 30kwh is allegedly suffering increased battery degradation and the 40kwh has the infamous #rapidgate. So there's bound to be something wrong with the 60kwh!

Deleted User wrote: »

I must check it out myself. Just wondering if there's an appetite for this kind of EV among Irish drivers though V the diesel.

What could we compared it to because there's no diesel model, could it be like the Clio V Zoe ? Zoe hadn't a hope compared to the 15K Clio Petrol which makes about 90% of sales, I stand to be corrected on the exact figure.

Of course there is, the only reason people buy diesel is because of the pump price.

and the only reason people by SUV style is because of ride height and perceived space. not many actually need one.

This would sell like cakes that are hot

ELM327 wrote: »

When a clio is 15-18k and a Zoe is 26-29k, no it's actually not.

Sorry but it actually is, you should compare it with i dont know its diesel variant.

and not a hatch city car....

listermint wrote: »

Sorry but it actually is, you should compare it with i dont know its diesel variant.

and not a hatch city car....

What is this I don't even?

I think you're missing the point. It was the mark up for a similar EV compared to a similar ICE. Clio vs Zoe was the comparison. Not Clio/Zoe vs Kona.

For Kona I think the equivalent is a Cashcow? Or an IX35? Or simply the ICE Kona?

Deleted User wrote: »

No one was comparing the Kona to the Clio.

+1

ELM327 wrote: »

The clio and the zoe are the same car, made on the same line in the same factory
They are the same car, with different drivetrain.

Please dont infer the mechanicals versus what i was implying.

Range.

Very Poor EV, range for the price. hence its terrible sales.


In fact its such a poor comparison to make to the Kona i dont even know why it was bothered. ....

listermint wrote: »

Please dont infer the mechanicals versus what i was implying.

Range.

Very Poor EV, range for the price. hence its terrible sales.


In fact its such a poor comparison to make to the Kona i dont even know why it was bothered. ....

Never compared it to the Kona.
Other than as a mark up for EV.

I don't see why this is so difficult. Hell if Mad Lad gets it :cool::D:pac:

I hope the Kona doesn't sell well tbh.

Currently the second hand Ioniq market is so small that there is very little depreciation.

I want to be able to buy a second hand or ex demo 64kwh Kona for a good price!

DrPhilG wrote: »

I want to be able to buy a second hand or ex demo 64kwh Kona for a good price!

Cheap second hand EVs are gone. And they won't be coming back any time soon. Leaf 24kWh is the only EV that gives good value for money second hand as we all know its limitations and it's also the only EV with a reasonable supply of second hand cars.

DrPhilG wrote: »

Just had a look around the Kona, (not the electric obviously) and it's very nice.

Not as small as I had feared, although the boot is quite a bit smaller than my Leaf.

Nice interior, much better than the 2018 Leaf. Nice layout. Not a bad looking car at all.

Yeah I sat in one a few weeks back. Not bad at all, more room than I expected too. I actually found it more comfortable in the back than the Ioniq. You sit more upright vs the sloped rear bench in the Ioniq. Less legroom of course but much better than expected.

unkel wrote: »

Cheapest C-HR is €27k and there are plenty of them around. If Hyundai Ireland can get the base Kona 40kWh in for a list price of around the same, it will sell every car they beg South Korea to put on a ship to Ireland.

Yeah Hyundai could do big damage if they price it right and don't screw up availability.

Was just looking at some of the registration stats there:

1,082 or almost 75% of all C-HRs registered so far this year are hybrids, minimum RRP of €29,350 up to €32,950 depending on trim, before options.


1,067 ICE Kona's registered here in the first 3 months of 2018. Nearly 800 of those are the 1.0 T-GDI C02 band B1, or in other words minimum RRP of €22,995 up to €26,595 depending on trim.

If the 40kWh undercuts the Hybrid C-HR it should do very well.

I wonder what will happen the RRP on the Ioniq with the release of the Kona.

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh, I got pics of the Kona and i3 parked beside each other. Will post later when I get more time so keep checking after 8:30 tonight.

Cool. I find automobiledimension.com good for comparing dimensions.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Jaysus almighty in Heaven, no one was comparing the Kona to the Zoe/Clio at all, I'm sorry I mentioned it FFS :rolleyes:

The comparison I made was to the Clio and Zoe the fact that the petrol clio is by far the best selling Clio much more than even the diesel.

So my question was whether the same comparison would be made by the Kona EV and another similar Hyundai petrol or diesel.

Then I said that the range was rather poor for the 22 Kwh and then there was the cost, the cost of the clio averaged 15,000 Euros.

Another issue with the Zoe originally was the battery lease, I forgot about that.

I know full well what comparison you were trying to make.

I read your posts . Reno messed up pricing on the Zoe versus the Clio.

Then you went on to say Hyundai could do the same thing and no one would buy the Kona.

The comparison was flawed I think we all realise this. There is no basis for your thinking

The kona will sell very well you can quote me with this post on that.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Oh get over yourself mate ffs, Jesus.

Relax mad lad you got it wrong this time it's ok.

Let's get back to the car. Sorry suv crossover

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I got nothing wrong, there was nothing to get wrong, you've got no idea what I was talking about obviously , if you do then tell me what I got wrong.

Your words ...

....
I must check it out myself. Just wondering if there's an appetite for this kind of EV among Irish drivers though V the diesel.

What could we compared it to because there's no diesel model, could it be like the Clio V Zoe ? Zoe hadn't a hope compared to the 15K Clio Petrol which makes about 90% of sales, I stand to be corrected on the exact figure

.....


Theres not appetite for it.
There's no diesel to compare it to.
It would be like the Zoe versus the Clio

.....

So much win in one paragraph

Mad, you're around a long time. Don't be going and getting yourself banned for personal insults. Calm down.