Hyundai Kona EV pre orders open

A well it will be years before a 350 Kw vehicle is available, unless maybe EV buses start to appear, unlikely for the next 5-10 years .....

It will be so sad to see slow charging cars plugged into them , what a waste, a 40 Kwh Leaf charging at 22 Kw that's already being fast charge and the battery is hot, 24 Kwh Leafs , charging at 30-35 Kw after 50%.

30 Kwh Leaf 45 kw, i3 50 kw. i3 is one car that should be able to charge faster for fs. AC cooled battery, that's a joke !

thierry14

Just a shame on the price

Was talking to a colleague who buys new every few years and he was pretty interested, read up about it, looked cool

Then the price

Kona ICE is 20k, Kona 64kWh EV is 35k

Explained you will save on fuel, but not 15k worth

Its much faster with 200bhp vs little ICE engine with 110bhp, I don't need speed can only do 120kph

Power isn't just about speed, over taking needs a lot of power to get out in tighter spaces and it's about the fun factor.

I wouldn't go back to a 110 Hp EV in a hurry.

Low power cars aren't necessary with electrics because electricity is a lot cheaper than petrol or diesel.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

It will be so sad to see slow charging cars plugged into them , what a waste, a 40 Kwh Leaf charging at 22 Kw

There will be no Leafs allowed to charge on any of the Ionity chargers

Casati

thierry14 wrote: »

Just a shame on the price

Was talking to a colleague who buys new every few years and he was pretty interested, read up about it, looked cool

Then the price

Kona ICE is 20k, Kona 64kWh EV is 35k

Explained you will save on fuel, but not 15k worth

Its much faster with 200bhp vs little ICE engine with 110bhp, I don't need speed can only do 120kph

Is the Kona pricing out? Would that be 35k after 10k of grants or would it be 25k?

unkel

unkel wrote: »

There will be no Leafs allowed to charge on any of the Ionity chargers

Oh yeah , Duh, they'll be CCS only haha. Forgot.

Casati

thierry14 wrote: »

Just a shame on the price

Was talking to a colleague who buys new every few years and he was pretty interested, read up about it, looked cool

Then the price

Kona ICE is 20k, Kona 64kWh EV is 35k

Explained you will save on fuel, but not 15k worth

Its much faster with 200bhp vs little ICE engine with 110bhp, I don't need speed can only do 120kph

Is the Kona pricing out? Would that be 35k after 10k of grants or would it be 25k?

KCross

thierry14 wrote: »

Just a shame on the price

Was talking to a colleague who buys new every few years and he was pretty interested, read up about it, looked cool

Then the price

Kona ICE is 20k, Kona 64kWh EV is 35k

Explained you will save on fuel, but not 15k worth

Its much faster with 200bhp vs little ICE engine with 110bhp, I don't need speed can only do 120kph

But he wont lose the €15k. He will get more for that car 3yrs later than he would for the €20k Kona at 3yrs.... its all relative. Explain TCO to him!

e.g. An ICE Golf goes from €22k to €40k+. Does that mean its not worth buying one of the €40k ones.... it depends on what you are after.... they all take you from A to B but the Golf R a "bit" faster!

In the case of EV you have a much nicer car to drive, massive potential fuel savings, less maintenance.... he needs to look beyond the €15k and look at TCO... if he doesnt have the €15k then fair enough... tough luck on him but its not a reason not to buy.

Shefwedfan

thierry14 wrote: »

Just a shame on the price

Was talking to a colleague who buys new every few years and he was pretty interested, read up about it, looked cool

Then the price

Kona ICE is 20k, Kona 64kWh EV is 35k

Explained you will save on fuel, but not 15k worth

Its much faster with 200bhp vs little ICE engine with 110bhp, I don't need speed can only do 120kph

You cannot and should not compare the base model with the Electric model. This was the same arguement for the eGolf as well.

Based on images I have seen the spec is high so you need to compare with the Premium model and automatic. So that is 30k.

So for the electric you are paying a premium of 5k. Not bad to be honest.

Shefwedfan

Casati wrote: »

Is the Kona pricing out? Would that be 35k after 10k of grants or would it be 25k?

Expect the larger range model to be 35k to the customer.

positron

theirry14, any source for that 35k figure? This is the most I can find, from Carwow's/URL, which is just a guestimate I think.

Price and release date
Expect the entry-level Kona Electric to cost around £26,000 and the faster, longer-range version to creep closer to £30,000. It’s set to go on sale in the UK in December 2018.

Shefwedfan

positron wrote: »

theirry14, any source for that 35k figure? This is the most I can find, from Carwow's/URL, which is just a guestimate I think.

He/she is working it out based on the pricing given on the Korea pre-order website. It is a couple of pages back

Based on those numbers the Kia Niro will be the exact same cost so I am unsure how correct they are

Shefwedfan

I was flying up bus lane today without a care in the World when I spotted a 181 Kona. Had to slow down and let them pass and then slotted in behind them. Much to the dismay of the driver behind them....dont know why people feel the need to beep!!!

Had a good look from behind and then back into bus lane and passed them again and up the road.

Based on what I have seen it is way too small for the young family man if more than 2 children are required in back. The back doors are bloody tiny, so a pain in ass trying to even get a child seat in & out of back of car.

Very similar to my sister in laws C-HR. Try and get a car seat into it and its a pain. Also to even get a kid in & out of back you need to open the door to the max....not going to work in Irish parking spots :-)

My wife was with me and said it was lovely, way nicer than her sisters C-HR. It was in the dark red and black top which would be my preferred option.

Kona off the list anyway. Hopefully the Niro wil be more suited.

Water John

Yes the elusive ecar to go from Cork to Dublin. It also has to be reasonable size.
Yaris was a nice handy little car, a family member had. Would never fancy driving Cork-Dublin in it though.

Shefwedfan

Water John wrote: »

Yes the elusive ecar to go from Cork to Dublin. It also has to be reasonable size.
Yaris was a nice handy little car, a family member had. Would never fancy driving Cork-Dublin in it though.

Dont get me wrong the car is lovely and looked very nice inside from what I could see....also from videos. I would have no issue with driving long distance in it. I would never do it in a Yaris...

I wouldn't use it on a regular basis if you are trying to get kids in and out of the back.

From the spec it is wider than my eGolf but the Golf has more square doors if you know what I mean, so you can reach in and out with kids. Hard on back but easy to slot in & out. Especially with Axiss car seat.

Now the Kona, which is same as the C-HR, has a slopping back, this means the back doors are small but also limited access space to the seat space. You wouldn't have the back pain but you and your child would have a constant sore head as you keep banging it off the car:p

Water John

My 'children', at this stage, can stay driving their own cars.
Will look at it. Intend to see the petrol version, to see would the EV version be a runner.

thierry14

EPA 400km

https://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/2019-hyundai-kona-electric-1.jpg

Range won't be a problem here

KCross

According to Hyundai’s press release it has a Cd the same as the old Leaf of 0.29Cd

How it then manages to be more efficient than every other car is a mystery!

They still also say 100kW charging but it takes 54mins for 0-80%, which doesn’t compute!

Shefwedfan

thierry14 wrote: »

EPA 400km

https://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/2019-hyundai-kona-electric-1.jpg

Range won't be a problem here

It looks awful from that picture....maybe it is the colour but not great.....

unkel

KCross wrote: »

According to Hyundai’s press release it has a Cd the same as the old Leaf of 0.29Cd

How it then manages to be more efficient than every other car is a mystery!

Not a mystery at all. Leaf has very old and inefficient drivetrain. And Kona gets the most efficient drivetrain ever made

Is that 400km EPA official? Linky? It's a bit more than I expected, but we have to keep remembering that EPA <> motorway driving. The test goes up to 120km/h but only stays at that for a few seconds. It would really help if EVs came with an official range at 120km/h. That is where range matters, not in city driving (unless you're a taxi man)

thierry14

KCross wrote: »

According to Hyundai’s press release it has a Cd the same as the old Leaf of 0.29Cd

How it then manages to be more efficient than every other car is a mystery!

They still also say 100kW charging but it takes 54mins for 0-80%, which doesn’t compute!

Thats about 50kW charging average , not great but even a Tesla can't manage more than 80kW average today

Its density over charge speed for 3rd gen EVs it seems with ncm chemistry

Even a €2mill Hypercar like Rimac doesn't have impressive charge speed

0-80% on a 120kWh battery in 30 mins

Thats not even 200kW charge speed from the best lithium ion battery tech money can buy

100kW charging from a Korean, A to B car is expecting alot in that case

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Not a mystery at all. Leaf has very old and inefficient drivetrain. And Kona gets the most efficient drivetrain ever made

That would suggest that the IONIQ's range is more to do with the drivetrain than the aerodynamics, which you remind us about on a regular basis!

And tbh, Im starting to think that that is the magic sauce that Hyundai have... its not Cd, its almost all down to the drivetrain.... motor, inverter's, reduction gear etc. It would explain a lot. Of course Cd matters but maybe its the drivetrain is the bigger element.

I remember reading somewhere that Nissan developed their motor to be most efficient for slower speeds which rings through when you see how it performs on the motorway. Hyundai must have went for a better middle ground.

And I think the dual motor Tesla's use two different motors to give max efficiency at slow and high speed.

The issue with the new Leaf and charging also suggest that Nissan are still in the same mindset... the Leaf is for tootling around in, not bombing up the motorway.... probably suits Japan and their lower speed limits.... they need to take a look around the world!


Another stat I dug into for this Kona is the rear space.... it looks like a smaller car but in fact it seems to be wider than the old Leaf which I've measured.... that makes the Kona a distinct possibility for me.... must get into a petrol one with the kids and see how it fits... might do the job fine for a few years until they become teenagers.

thelikelylad

KCross wrote: »

According to Hyundai’s press release it has a Cd the same as the old Leaf of 0.29Cd

Old Nissan Leaf is 0.32? Well it is according to this report anyway.

unkel wrote: »

Not a mystery at all. Leaf has very old and inefficient drivetrain. And Kona gets the most efficient drivetrain ever made

Is that 400km EPA official? Linky?

Official Press Release - Link

It’s “250-mile estimated range” so not official yet I would guess.

New Leaf with similiar Cd comes in at 285km on WLTP, 240km on EPA. EPA appears to be roughly 85% of WLTP

KONA 470km WLTP x 0.85 = 400km EPA

KCross

KCross wrote: »

According to Hyundai’s press release it has a Cd the same as the old Leaf of 0.29Cd

How it then manages to be more efficient than every other car is a mystery!

They still also say 100kW charging but it takes 54mins for 0-80%, which doesn’t compute!

No, think it's 70 Kw , I think I read on one of the links posted here.

I'm probably correct that it will get around 22 and possibly 23 Kwh/100 kms at 120 Kph so I can see 350 Kms at lower speeds of you go by the Leaf 18-19 Kwh/100 kms at 100 kph, say 19 Kwh/100 kms would get 336 kms

280 Kms that's not bad really.

It's a taller box so it's going to catch more wind, stick 64 Kwh into the ioniq !

I've no doubt 350 kms is achievable, can't wait to take it for a spin.

thelikelylad

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It looks awful from that picture....maybe it is the colour but not great.....

Here's a better angle:

https://i.imgur.com/lirGx23.jpg

The plastic arches are a bit meh, but with the right body colour they blend in ok.

The ICE version in dark grey and black looks good IMO.

Ah it's not a bad looking yoke at all.

You'll always have someone complain, here's the trick, don't say it's electric lol.

Wheel arches are sh1t though but still not bad car.

Shefwedfan

thelikelylad wrote: »

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It looks awful from that picture....maybe it is the colour but not great.....

Here's a better angle:

https://i.imgur.com/lirGx23.jpg

The plastic arches are a bit meh, but with the right body colour they blend in ok.

The ICE version in dark grey and black looks good IMO.

I prefer the red and black

unkel

KCross wrote: »

Im starting to think that that is the magic sauce that Hyundai have... its not Cd, its almost all down to the drivetrain.... motor, inverter's, reduction gear etc. It would explain a lot. Of course Cd matters but maybe its the drivetrain is the bigger element..

Nah, I don't believe that. All the tests we have seen were done at ridiculously low speeds. Sure Ioniq is more efficient but it doesn't really matter as driving on electric is super cheap anyway. 40% less cheap than very cheap is still cheap. The only time it matters is when it comes to long distance driving

If someone out there was brave enough to do a 120km/h real speed long distance race between Ioniq and whatever other budget EV, the results would be truly shocking.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

If someone out there was brave enough to do a 120km/h real speed long distance race between Ioniq and whatever other budget EV, the results would be truly shocking.

When I can arrange a test drive I'll arrange to do a Dublin to galway trip at 120 Km/h where suitable. ?

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Nah, I don't believe that. All the tests we have seen were done at ridiculously low speeds.

Isnt that proving my point. Even at low speed where Cd has very little to do with range the IONIQ still beats everyone else for range with the same usable capacity.... so that HAS to be down to primarily drivetrain efficiency.

Of course, as you increase speed Cd will come into play more, but Im thinking the efficient drivetrain still plays a bigger part in the difference.

I guess its somewhat a pointless discussion as we cant get figures for each piece (drivetrain vs Cd) but this Kona again giving brilliant mpge figures for what is a meh Cd value is intriguing.

Clearly Hyundai are good at Cd and drivetrain... if only they could produce more! Hyundai unions saying EV is evil doesnt help either! https://electrek.co/2018/03/27/electric-cars-disasters-evil-says-hyundai-union-head/

unkel wrote: »

Sure Ioniq is more efficient but it doesn't really matter as driving on electric is super cheap anyway. 40% less cheap than very cheap is still cheap. The only time it matters is when it comes to long distance driving

Not sure what your point is there. Thats a financial discussion. Im just talking about how Hyundai get more range out of the same amount of energy.

unkel wrote: »

If someone out there was brave enough to do a 120km/h real speed long distance race between Ioniq and whatever other budget EV, the results would be truly shocking.

Has that not been done? I thought it had.