Garda Apology

riemann · 16-06-2019 6:08pm #1

So this lady is talking about getting personal apologies from 2 heads that didn't have anything to do with how she was treated over 30 years ago.

If she's so keen to move forward why bring all this up after so long?

Why go after people who didn't do anything to her, instead of pointing the finger at those actually responsible?

One wonders what the end game is.

Fann Linn · 16-06-2019 6:10pm

I suppose because they're representative of the force she served in.

amcalester · 16-06-2019 6:10pm

Money. It’s alway money.

16-06-2019 6:12pm

A mea culpa from Flanagan isn't worth a hill of beans, those who oversaw her humiliation in the 80s should be held directly accountable.

The high horse brigade · 16-06-2019 6:13pm

She is due an apology

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 16-06-2019 6:13pm

It's not about the people, but the organisation. The same as current ministers or governments apologising for past events.

judeboy101 · 16-06-2019 6:14pm

She knowingly had sex outside marriage and an illegitimate child with a fellow recruit , in a time where rightly or wrongly, would bring disrepute to the office of garda. What did she think would happen?

honeybear · 16-06-2019 6:14pm

The high horse brigade wrote: »

She is due an apology

Agree. Heard radio documentary yesterday (think it’s repeated tonight at 7). Not an easy listening experience.

Ten of Swords · 16-06-2019 6:17pm

Deleted User wrote: »

A mea culpa from Flanagan isn't worth a hill of beans, those who oversaw her humiliation in the 80s should be held directly accountable.

The garda commissioner from 1984 is dead now

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/obituary-larry-wren-34534992.html

The high horse brigade · 16-06-2019 6:18pm

judeboy101 wrote: »

She knowingly had sex outside marriage and an illegitimate child with a fellow recruit , in a time where rightly or wrongly, would bring disrepute to the office of garda. What did she think would happen?

Yes they were very backward times we have now moved on from, she needs an apology to show we have moved on.

Elemonator · 16-06-2019 6:19pm

In fairness, she is due a lot of compensation.

The horrible concept of illegitimate children are just imaginary sticks religious nutjobs use to beat others they think are inferior.

suicide_circus · 16-06-2019 6:19pm

every organisation in this country (and all other countries) has a hell of a lot of apologising to do.

RasTa · 16-06-2019 6:22pm

Well that's a mental story. Ireland really was a crazy place.

judeboy101 · 16-06-2019 6:23pm

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Yes they were very backward times we have now moved on from, she needs an apology to show we have moved on.

So let's explore this, let's say jimmy arrives in temple more tomorrow and starts to sell legal but highly distasteful German dungeon porn to his fellow recruits. Hq find out and he is kicked off the force for bringing them into disrepute. 5 yrs later German dungeon porn becomes mainstream and popular, everyone watches it. Should he get compo and an apology? No he doesn't, he knew what I would happen, just like she did.

Nobelium · 16-06-2019 6:24pm

Why wait till exactly now in 2019 ? It not as if she could not have come out with this anytime in at least the last 10 years.

tupenny · 16-06-2019 6:24pm

Illegitimate is such a messed up word to label a child with

judeboy101 · 16-06-2019 6:25pm

Elemonator wrote: »

In fairness, she is due a lot of compensation.

The horrible concept of illegitimate children are just imaginary sticks religious nutjobs use to beat others they think are inferior.

She got super early retirement and a golden handshake. She's been used as a Rosa parks by the "forced adoption" crowd.

dudara · 16-06-2019 6:25pm

judeboy101 wrote: »

She knowingly had sex outside marriage and an illegitimate child with a fellow recruit , in a time where rightly or wrongly, would bring disrepute to the office of garda. What did she think would happen?

What penance do you want from her? The only thing she did wrong was to sleep with a fellow employee. Everything else was as a result of the typical backwards mindset of the time.

tupenny · 16-06-2019 6:25pm

Nobelium wrote: »

Why it is suddenly a big issue now ? and why wait till exactly now in 2019 ?

Maybe only now she's come to terms with the ordeal herself and is only now able to speak out?

Bannasidhe · 16-06-2019 6:26pm

judeboy101 wrote: »

So let's explore this, let's say jimmy arrives in temple more tomorrow and starts to sell legal but highly distasteful German dungeon porn to his fellow recruits. Hq find out and he is kicked off the force for bringing them into disrepute. 5 yrs later German dungeon porn becomes mainstream and popular, everyone watches it. Should he get compo and an apology? No he doesn't, he knew what I would happen, just like she did.

Are you seriously comparing selling porn to a having a child?

kneemos · 16-06-2019 6:27pm

What we're the rules at the time?

judeboy101 · 16-06-2019 6:28pm

dudara wrote: »

What penance do you want from her? The only thing she did wrong was to sleep with a fellow employee. Everything else was as a result of the typical backwards mindset of the time.

She consciously chose to sign away her kid to keep her job, think about that for a second. The other guard knew this and didn't step up to the plate. Methinks guilt can sometimes be used to lash out rather than accept ones own deeds.

The high horse brigade · 16-06-2019 6:30pm

judeboy101 wrote: »

So let's explore this, let's say jimmy arrives in temple more tomorrow and starts to sell legal but highly distasteful German dungeon porn to his fellow recruits. Hq find out and he is kicked off the force for bringing them into disrepute. 5 yrs later German dungeon porn becomes mainstream and popular, everyone watches it. Should he get compo and an apology? No he doesn't, he knew what I would happen, just like she did.

Holy sh1t that's a retarded comparison, maybe some of us haven't moved on. She did nothing wrong other than sleep with a man and have a child out of marriage

dudara · 16-06-2019 6:30pm

^^Put yourself in the shoes of a woman in Catholic Ireland back then. Many women gave up their children rather than face the social “outrage”. It was a different time, and while we would like to believe that we would behave differently if we were in her shoes, I’m not so sure that we would.

judeboy101 · 16-06-2019 6:30pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Are you seriously comparing selling porn to a having a child?

I'm saying both actions would mean the guards then (unmarried mother, premarital sex) and now (dodgy dungeon porn ring in templemore) would both bring the institution into disrepute and as such they would have the right legally to discipline.

16-06-2019 6:31pm

dudara wrote: »

What penance do you want from her? The only thing she did wrong was to sleep with a fellow employee. Everything else was as a result of the typical backwards mindset of the time.

Exactly, that was the mindset of the time. The time in which she lived. And this story takes place in that same time.

Whatever about looking back a generation later, that was how it was back then. She's on the lookout for a few Euro, not an apology, in my honest opinion.

judeboy101 · 16-06-2019 6:32pm

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Holy sh1t that's a retarded comparison, maybe some of us haven't moved on. She did nothing wrong other than sleep with a man and have a child out of marriage

You obviously don't know much about how the guards are meant to conduct themselves, they have rules about bringing the uniform into disrepute.

RasTa · 16-06-2019 6:32pm

judeboy101 wrote: »

I'm saying both actions would mean the guards then (unmarried mother, premarital sex) and now (dodgy dungeon porn ring in templemore) would both bring the institution into disrepute and as such they would have the right legally to discipline.

Jesus, you really hate women don't ye.

older i get better i was · 16-06-2019 6:34pm

riemann wrote: »

So this lady is talking about getting personal apologies from 2 heads that didn't have anything to do with how she was treated over 30 years ago.

If she's so keen to move forward why bring all this up after so long?

Why go after people who didn't do anything to her, instead of pointing the finger at those actually responsible?

One wonders what the end game is.

Listen to the documentary and it'll be obvious rather than commenting from a point of ignorance ye twonk.

Ipso · 16-06-2019 6:34pm

judeboy101 wrote: »

She knowingly had sex outside marriage and an illegitimate child with a fellow recruit , in a time where rightly or wrongly, would bring disrepute to the office of garda. What did she think would happen?

Did she have sex with herself?

judeboy101 · 16-06-2019 6:36pm

dudara wrote: »

^^Put yourself in the shoes of a woman in Catholic Ireland back then. Many women gave up their children rather than face the social “outrage”. It was a different time, and while we would like to believe that we would behave differently if we were in her shoes, I’m not so sure that we would.

Did you listen to the interview, she had no problem bringing other lad to her fathers house for sex and she 'knew' before he left she was pregnant.she was no shrinking violet but a tough cookie who joined the guards and made a mistake. She was legally disciplined by the guards and she choose to give her kid away, no one forced her.

The high horse brigade · 16-06-2019 6:36pm

judeboy101 wrote: »

You obviously don't know much about how the guards are meant to conduct themselves, they have rules about bringing the uniform into disrepute.

What about the other party, the father to the child, why wasn't he given the same punishment?

Sleeper12 · 16-06-2019 6:36pm

judeboy101 wrote:

So let's explore this, let's say jimmy arrives in temple more tomorrow and starts to sell legal but highly distasteful German dungeon porn to his fellow recruits. Hq find out and he is kicked off the force for bringing them into disrepute. 5 yrs later German dungeon porn becomes mainstream and popular, everyone watches it. Should he get compo and an apology? No he doesn't, he knew what I would happen, just like she did.

Here's the problem with the above. It was NOT illegal to have sex outside of wedlock in the 80s. It was NOT illegal to have a baby out of wedlock in the 80s.

I haven't seen what happened to the father of the child but I'm betting he wasn't sacked at the same time

Fann Linn · 16-06-2019 6:37pm

The high horse brigade wrote: »

What about the other party, the father to the child, why wasn't he given the same punishment?

He was fined £90.

The high horse brigade · 16-06-2019 6:37pm

judeboy101 wrote: »

Did you listen to the interview, she had no problem bringing other lad to her fathers house for sex and she 'knew' before he left she was pregnant.she was no shrinking violet but a tough cookie who joined the guards and made a mistake. She was legally disciplined by the guards and she choose to give her kid away, no one forced her.

It's very hard to argue with someone who still believes it's 1930

judeboy101 · 16-06-2019 6:38pm

The high horse brigade wrote: »

What about the other party, the father to the child, why wasn't he given the same punishment?

That's a question for the guards, my question is why he would impregnate a fellow recruit and not stand by her. Spineless man who is no doubt super by now.

judeboy101 · 16-06-2019 6:40pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Here's the problem with the above. It was NOT illegal to have sex outside of wedlock in the 80s. It was NOT illegal to have a baby out of wedlock in the 80s.

I haven't seen what happened to the father of the child but I'm betting he wasn't sacked at the same time

You can't do whatever legal activity you want in your private life as a guard, either then or now. They are supposedly held to higher standards.

Spanish Eyes · 16-06-2019 6:40pm

Documentary is available on podcasts too.

Nothing surprises me anymore about those days. Was a very dark time for women.

There is talk about Opus Dei and the higher echelons of the Gardai (and other PS outfits too), but sure who knows anymore. Bet they are still there in the background though. Losing their influence day by day. Hopefully.

Odhinn · 16-06-2019 6:40pm

riemann wrote: »

So this lady is talking about getting personal apologies from 2 heads that didn't have anything to do with how she was treated over 30 years ago.

If she's so keen to move forward why bring all this up after so long?

Why go after people who didn't do anything to her, instead of pointing the finger at those actually responsible?

One wonders what the end game is.

.....taking another lump out of the immunity they've enjoyed for far too long~?

Mrsmum · 16-06-2019 6:41pm

I'm surprised they didn't insist the guy, also a garda recruit, marry her.

It's not all that long ago and many women were keeping their babies then. But not career and baby.

Fann Linn · 16-06-2019 6:42pm

judeboy101 wrote: »

You can't do whatever legal activity you want in your private life as a guard, either then or now. They are supposedly held to higher standards.

That standard has been well and truly lowered by themselves alone.

judeboy101 · 16-06-2019 6:42pm

Mrsmum wrote: »

I'm surprised they didn't insist the guy, also a garda recruit, marry her.

It's not all that long ago and many women were keeping their babies then. But not career and baby.

She made a choice, career vs baby.

Spanish Eyes · 16-06-2019 6:42pm

Has the Iona Institute made a statement on the matter yet?

Well the Bishop saved her so I doubt it.

Spanish Eyes · 16-06-2019 6:44pm

judeboy101 wrote: »

She made a choice, career vs baby.

So did the impregnator. Although he was alright, fined 90 quid and off you go lad. Your seed is in that woman and she alone shall be punished.

SEPT 23 1989 · 16-06-2019 6:45pm

So she gave away her child to keep her job in an organisation who made her do that to her own child?

Am I missing something here?

judeboy101 · 16-06-2019 6:46pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

That standard has been well and truly lowered by themselves alone.

Yes it has, but they still have one rule for themselves and another for the rest us us.

Edgware · 16-06-2019 6:46pm

judeboy101 wrote: »

That's a question for the guards, my question is why he would impregnate a fellow recruit and not stand by her. Spineless man who is no doubt super by now.

You obviously havent a clue. The father of the child wanted them to get married and keep the child but she declined. I know this doesn't suit your agenda but it is the facts.

Nobelium · 16-06-2019 6:46pm

judeboy101 wrote: »

That's a question for the guards, my question is why he would impregnate a fellow recruit and not stand by her. Spineless man who is no doubt super by now.

Never let the facts get in the way of gender politics. He asked her to marry him. He also faced a severe disciplinary hearing.

RasTa · 16-06-2019 6:47pm

She was 22. The type of questioning she faced means she deserves every penny she can get.

Fann Linn · 16-06-2019 6:47pm

judeboy101 wrote: »

Yes it has, but they still have one rule for themselves and another for the rest us us.

My point entirely.

elperello · 16-06-2019 6:47pm

The woman herself has received no apology.

Garda Apology

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