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Garda Apology

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    #62
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    She didn't want to get married, she didn't want to look after the child, and now she wants to sue the state . . .


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    #63
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    Would that have been allowed for her to stay in AGS unmarried and keep the baby ?

    yep, the commissioner wanted to sack her, but the archbishop intervened as he thought it would encourage female Gardai to have abortions instead.
    The charges against her were dropped, and she received a caution instead.
    There was no requirement for adoption, but she didn't want to look after the kid


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    #64
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Nobelium wrote: »
    She didn't want to get married, she didn't want to look after the child, and now she wants to sue the state . . .

    Where has she said that she wishes to sue the State?
    She isnt the Bailey one


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    #65
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    elperello wrote: »
    The woman herself has received no apology.

    There was a story in one of the papers that the commissioner apologised.

    Edit. It was Charlie Flanagan that apologised.


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    #66
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Contraception was available in the early 80’s.
    She rejected the fathers marriage proposal.

    Why all the fuss now?


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    #67
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Contraception was available in the early 80’s.
    She rejected the fathers marriage proposal.

    Why all the fuss now?

    #Rosaparks


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    #68
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    I don't really see why her case is unusual in any way. She had a good few choices, it seems to me, far more than many.

    AGS weren't best pleased with her or the father, who also had a hearing against him. Is he also entitled to an apology then. Anyway I'm sure they were not the only young gardai who ran foul of various rules and regulations and had to suffer the indignity of embarrassing interviews with their superiors.


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    #69
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,308 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    There was a story in one of the papers that the commissioner apologised.

    She says today that she has received no apology.
    Apparently the Commissioner and Minister have publicly apologised but not directly to her.


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    #70
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    There was a story in one of the papers that the commissioner apologised.
    The Commissioner and Minister doing the PR job and announcing an apology. The correct approach would be to meet Majella in person.

    The Garda regulations of the time obviously had a catch all charge " bringing the Garda Siochana into disrepute"
    I do know of a female Garda who became a single mother also around that time and she received a transfer to near her family home and kept the baby. Does that mean different approaches to this situation occurred in different Garda areas?


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    #71
    Force Carrier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Force Carrier


    For the laughable suggestions that she is planning to sue the state or that that was her motive >

    https://www.claims.ie/statute_of_limitations


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    #72
    riemann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭riemann


    older i get better i was wrote: »
    Listen to the documentary and it'll be obvious rather than commenting from a point of ignorance ye twonk.

    Thanks for the advice, and the insult.

    I listened to the original broadcast and the repeat which has just finished.

    As usual there were some gardai who it would seem acted appropriately and wrote letters which reflected her in a positive way, and unsurprisingly some superior officers who took a different view.

    Even today I don't know too many single mothers who are gardai. Not exactly an ideal combo.

    Again I have no idea what she hopes to get out of this.

    Will meeting Drew Harris and Charlie Flanagan while they read speeches prepared by their staff bring closure?

    You can't go back and change the past, but you can learn from it and move on.

    Sad that all this started with her Mam being killed in a road accident.


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    #73
    pinkyeye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭pinkyeye


    Jesus H Christ this thread makes for scary reading. That people actually think it was okay to discipline a woman for having sex and getting pregnant is unbelievable.


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    #74
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    pinkyeye wrote: »
    Jesus H Christ this thread makes for scary reading. That people actually think it was okay to discipline a woman for having sex and getting pregnant is unbelievable.


    They were both, her and the father subject to disciplinary hearings.


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    #75
    Your Face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,277 ✭✭✭Your Face


    pinkyeye wrote: »
    Jesus H Christ this thread makes for scary reading. That people actually think it was okay to discipline a woman for having sex and getting pregnant is unbelievable.

    I don't find it scary but very interesting.


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    #76
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Contraception was available in the early 80’s.
    She rejected the fathers marriage proposal.

    Why all the fuss now?

    I don't think contraception was that widely available at that time. Wasn't a prescription needed and unlikely to be given to an unmarried person? Even for condoms?


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    #77
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    No one gives a toss for the guy but think about him for a minute. He wanted to marry her and for them to bring up their family. She didn't want him. So he then had no say in his child being adopted no matter what he thought about it. It's like he has no feelings in this. Now of course for all I know maybe he might have been well relieved but maybe he wasn't either ?? Who cares though.


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    #78
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    pinkyeye wrote: »
    Jesus H Christ this thread makes for scary reading. That people actually think it was okay to discipline a woman for having sex and getting pregnant is unbelievable.
    i think trying to judge the past on modern morality is scary. lots of things from 30/40 years ago sound fcuked up now but it was in a different context.


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    #79
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    I don't think contraception was that widely available at that time. Wasn't a prescription needed and unlikely to be given to an unmarried person? Even for condoms?

    Yes it was available when I came to Dublin anyway round that time. All the girls knew the doctors who would give it to you and also there was the Well Woman Clinic.


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    #80
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Edgware wrote: »
    The Garda regulations of the time obviously had a catch all charge " bringing the Garda Siochana into disrepute"
    I do know of a female Garda who became a single mother also around that time and she received a transfer to near her family home and kept the baby. Does that mean different approaches to this situation occurred in different Garda areas?

    No, the only difference was she didn't want to look after the child.


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    #81
    riemann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭riemann


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    I don't think contraception was that widely available at that time. Wasn't a prescription needed and unlikely to be given to an unmarried person? Even for condoms?

    In the interview she states they did use contraception, but not on the night of conception.


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    #82
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,613 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    She knowingly had sex outside marriage and an illegitimate child with a fellow recruit , in a time where rightly or wrongly, would bring disrepute to the office of garda. What did she think would happen?

    Nice bit of victim blaming there, you must really hate women
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Contraception was available in the early 80’s.
    She rejected the fathers marriage proposal.

    Why all the fuss now?

    Another poster stuck in the dark ages


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    #83
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    No one gives a toss for the guy but think about him for a minute. He wanted to marry her and for them to bring up their family. She didn't want him. So he then had no say in his child being adopted no matter what he thought about it. It's like he has no feelings in this. Now of course for all I know maybe he might have been well relieved but maybe he wasn't either ?? Who cares though.

    Exactly, he also had to face a disciplinary committee and was charged and fined. She didn't, and the charges against her were dropped, and she was just cautioned.


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    #84
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,308 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    There is a lot of conflation of the public and private lives of state employees in this thread.
    All citizens have a right to their private morality apart from their duty to the state.
    They don't mix well now and didn't in the past either.


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    #85
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    I don't think contraception was that widely available at that time. Wasn't a prescription needed and unlikely to be given to an unmarried person? Even for condoms?

    The Pill was available by prescription, no matter ones marital status. Condoms could be bought from adverts in uk publications.


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    #86
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    Yes it was available when I came to Dublin anyway round that time. All the girls knew the doctors who would give it to you and also there was the Well Woman Clinic.

    The Pill and condoms were available to single women in Clonmel in the early 80’s. The Pill was actually available during the 1960’s though I’m not sure if for unmarried women.


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    #87
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users Posts: 15,288 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Just trying to understand this.

    So the guy wanted to marry her, but she said no way and instead put the child up for adoption against her will?


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    #88
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    I don't think contraception was that widely available at that time.

    It was, and in fact the male Guard was asked in his disciplinary hearing why they didn't use any, which would have prevented the whole mess.

    Unlike the male guard she faced no disciplinary hearing and her charges were dropped. He had to face disciplinary hearing, was found guilty of conduct unbecoming, and was charged and fined.


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    #89
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users Posts: 15,288 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Nobelium wrote: »
    It was, and in fact the male Guard was asked in his disciplinary hearing why they didn't use any, which would have prevented the whole mess.

    Unlike the male guard she faced no disciplinary hearing and her charges were dropped. He had to face disciplinary hearing, was found guilty of conduct unbecoming, and was charged and fined.

    He did ask her to marry him though? And she said no, but also she gave up the baby for adoption against her will and kept her job in guards.

    Is that the basic story of what happened?


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    #90
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Just trying to understand this.

    So the guy wanted to marry her, but she said no way and instead put the child up for adoption against her will?

    Not quite correct. She didn't want to marry him, and she didn't have to put the child up for adoption, but she also didn't want to care for it.
    She could have kept her child and her job, just like previous female guards did at the time, but she didn't want to look after the kid.
    It was her choice to put the child up for adoption.


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    #91
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    elperello wrote: »
    There is a lot of conflation of the public and private lives of state employees in this thread.
    All citizens have a right to their private morality apart from their duty to the state.
    They don't mix well now and didn't in the past either.

    You are so right that they don't mix but it's just a fact they were totally entwined back then. A cousin of mine is a teacher in a small country school and she has two kids with a boyfriend. No one bats an eyelid (or if they do they keep it to themselves.) In the 80s she would have been out on her ear. Judging those times from where we are now would be like dropping a modern person back them. You can't mix the two imo.


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