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Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

24567…92

Comments

  • #52
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Guffy wrote: »
    Nursing pay is an absolute disgrace.

    I am not a nurse, have a distant friend who is a nurse but that's about it.

    They get free 3rd level college granted, so does every other 3rd level student.

    Why am I paying 3.5k in fees for my daughter then?
    They work placement throughout their course for no wage in their first 3 years and they have no say on where they get placed.

    That's part of their education.
    They start off at 24k a year after 4 years of college.

    That's not bad at all for a starting salary. Cue the comparisons with top end 1% Google programmers.
    Nui hospital in Galway recently had a position advertised for the laundry room starting off at 26k a year. No education or experience required.

    Joke of system we have

    The laundry room position will still be stuck down at that level several years hence.


  • #53
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    I pay lots of tax, and this countries tax money is wasted in the billions every year.

    I'd be far happier to see if pay nurses wages that any of the "consultants" and working groups and
    think tanks the government employ.

    I can't argue with you there. Where I can argue is that there are lots of nurses. And it won't stop there. The whole public sector will want parity. We already vastly overpay our public sector workers. We are still up to our eyeballs in debt. Brexit is around the corner. And the private sector workers will foot the bill as usual.


  • #54
    thomasdylan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 514 ✭✭✭thomasdylan


    professore wrote: »
    I can't argue with you there. Where I can argue is that there are lots of nurses. And it won't stop there. The whole public sector will want parity. We already vastly overpay our public sector workers. We are still up to our eyeballs in debt. Brexit is around the corner. And the private sector workers will foot the bill as usual.

    If nurses are overpaid why is there a shortage of them? Same for NCHDs and consultants? Why can't the jobs be filled if they are paid so well?


  • #55
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    professore wrote: »
    Why am I paying 3.5k in fees for my daughter then?

    That's part of their education.

    That's not bad at all for a starting salary. Cue the comparisons with top end 1% Google programmers.

    The laundry room position will still be stuck down at that level several years hence.
    They pay fees same as everyone.

    Most peoples placements are paid through a stipend. Student nurses are just used as free labour to plug the gaps in understaffed wards.

    Most starting salaries jump up by quite a bit after a year or two, nurses don't. Euro per hour, theyre usually below minimum wage for the first few years, given all the free hours they put in weekly.

    The laundry room employee didn't need to fork out 50k putting themselves through college and will have a better work environment than a newly qualified nurse.
    professore wrote: »
    I can't argue with you there. Where I can argue is that there are lots of nurses. And it won't stop there. The whole public sector will want parity. We already vastly overpay our public sector workers. We are still up to our eyeballs in debt. Brexit is around the corner. And the private sector workers will foot the bill as usual.

    I understand that position, but we're only in this situation because we have a weak government.

    It's ridiculous that when one sector strikes, so does the next. Bus driver, Luas and train drivers do it almost yearly.

    But when one sector is so underpaid to the point where they're losing staff, paying agency staff and standards are at rock bottom, something has to give. I find it ridiculous that anyone would go into nursing given the conditions, and I have no problem with anyone emigrating to better employment opportunities.


  • #56
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,188 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    37 hours, average salary is 55k per annum not including overtime

    No . Wrong.

    Nursing Working week is 39.5 hours excluding the meal breaks( most nurses don't get time to take a meal break anyway). You must be thinking of your office job. And 1.5 of that is unpaid since the crash, was 38 hours.
    Also nurses while public servants, mostly do not work Monday to Friday or 9 to 5 , so only get to pay the rent by working nights and weekends.
    Average salary for a registered nurse is 31 k going up to 45 k after 13 years! Guards and teachers earn on average 8 to 10 k more. Nurses and teachers are both degree courses, guards are not.
    Most nurses have Higher Diplomas in specialist areas as well and even more have Masters in their speciality and teach others while doing their jobs.

    I don't know any parent who would encourage their children to go to uni when there are so many jobs out there not requiring half the effort, expertise or education paying so much more these days. But still people want to do it because they just love it and get a buzz out of the job itself and the great people they work . Hopefully someday maybe they might get the recognition and pay to encourage them to stay working in the health service . And therein lies the problem.


  • #57
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    mad muffin wrote: »
    How much do you put on your life? Your family’s? Loved ones? You want the best healthcare and you want it now, but you don’t think you should pay too much for it?

    The reality is we pay one of the highest costs per capita for quite frankly a poor health service. Seeing my mother in excruciating pain for 3 years waiting for a hip replacement was ample evidence of that. Now I'm not blaming nurses for that but a root and branch reform of the health service is needed. It's not a bottomless pit.


  • #58
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    They pay fees same as everyone.

    Most peoples placements are paid through a stipend. Student nurses are just used as free labour to plug the gaps in understaffed wards.

    Most starting salaries jump up by quite a bit after a year or two, nurses don't. Euro per hour, theyre usually below minimum wage for the first few years, given all the free hours they put in weekly.

    The laundry room employee didn't need to fork out 50k putting themselves through college and will have a better work environment than a newly qualified nurse.

    Not attacking nurses specifically but then they should become laundry room employees instead if it's so much better.


  • #59
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    professore wrote: »
    Not attacking nurses specifically but then they should become laundry room employees instead if it's so much better.

    That's why there's such a problem recruiting. People are choosing other professions for an easier and better life.
    Ireland is hiring more and more foreign staff to make up the shortfall.

    And remember that many other countries like the UK are in the same boat, and they pay better than us. So you wonder what the level is of foreign nurses working in Ireland when there are so many better opportunities out there.


  • #60
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    trick wrote: »
    ............

    Also, like another poster said, you can’t just walk off the ward at 20:30. I have often left work at 21:00-21:30...

    That's ok if it happens once in a blue moon

    If it's happening all the time and yer putting up with it , it's just martydom

    trick wrote: »
    ..........That’s just the way it is. You’ll never get those hours back though..

    Total up the hours and get them off a future days shift ( get a half-day or something )

    DON'T accept cash for the excess hours - they love fixing cr@p by just firing money at it



    Just stop work in plenty time and do your notes so you are out the door at 20:30



    Unless there is a bus crash or something, you stop in good time and do yer notes and gtf out the door


    It's abuse at the moment. Plain and simple.

    F*ck that, change it


    You will just kill someone by going on strike and it will fix absolutely nothing


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  • #61
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    gctest50 wrote: »
    That's ok if it happens once in a blue moon

    If it's happening all the time and yer putting up with it , it's just martydom
    Total up the hours and get them off a future days shift ( get a half-day or something )

    DON'T accept cash for the excess hours - they love fixing cr@p by just firing money at it

    Just stop work in plenty time and do your notes so you are out the door at 20:30

    Unless there is a bus crash or something, you stop in good time and do yer notes and gtf out the door

    It's abuse. Plain and simple.

    Working extra hours happens very regularly.
    You literally cannot just walk off the ward if you're needed. You can't get time in lieu or extra money for hours worked and good luck getting more cash for those hours.

    Your whole life revolves around the hospital. You can be called at a moment's notice to come in and usually you will, because if you don't your colleagues will have it much much worse.


  • #62
    trick
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭trick


    gctest50 wrote: »
    That's ok if it happens once in a blue moon

    If it's happening all the time and yer putting up with it , it's just martydom


    ###LMAO AGAIN.. jo public just can’t understand the reality of the job. Nothing to do with “martydom” sp
    And again, I said that I wasn’t complaining about it. ####

    Total up the hours and get them off a future days shift ( get a half-day or something )

    ###Get a half day???
    When you have 30 patients and a max of 3 staff nurses including yourself. Half days don’t exist on hospital wards. ###

    DON'T accept cash for the excess hours - they love fixing cr@p by just firing money at it

    Just stop work in plenty time and do your notes so you are out the door at 20:30

    Unless there is a bus crash or something, you stop in good time and do yer notes and gtf out the door


    It's abuse at the moment. Plain and simple.

    F*ck that, change it

    I never metioned notes when I said that it’s necesaery to stay late sometimes.
    You could have a patient back from theatre & it’s up to you to start their post op care. You could have a confused patient with Alzheimer’s kicking off (the night staff need to get medications started so they aren’t able to sort it out).
    You could have an admission at change over, this is your responsibility to do.
    These are just 3 examples. There are MANY more variables.

    The reason I mentioned the working hours not being strictly 37 hours (as another poster posted) is because that is not the reality and it’s not martyrdom either.

    (( sorry I made a blip replying, the ### bits are mine, I’m on my phone & it’s not cooperating)

    ****Further addition as you edited your post after I replied.

    It’s a BIG stretch to say that people will be killed by nurses going on strike.
    Deliberately obtuse to get a rise.
    I’m not biting ;-)


  • #63
    Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    Unions have ruined this country. They used to serve a very necessary purpose, but these days its just constant calling of strikes in order to get paid more and more.

    Unions still serve a necessary purpose, but they are usually only used for the wrong segment of the working population in Ireland currently.

    Unions are needed to have guaranteed working hours and pay, standard working conditions, a guaranteed pension ect. All these things are already there for people working in the public sector generally.

    It is private sector employees who need unions in this country. To ensure no zero hour contracts, to have guaranteed overtime payed, to be paid at least the minimum wage, to have a guaranteed pension after a set amount of working years, to have job security ect.

    Unions are usually fighting for the rights of the wrong segment of workers in Ireland.


  • #64
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Alrigghtythen wrote: »
    .....,......

    changing nursing to a 4 year degree was a mistake. In 2004 70% of nurses were emigating

    So we should "hobble" them so they don't run away then ?????


    Same as the early days of the Kimberly Diamond mines ?







    Kimberly diamond mine :


    IEQM3SZ.jpg


  • #65
    thomasdylan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 514 ✭✭✭thomasdylan


    Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »
    Unions still serve a necessary purpose, but they are usually only used for the wrong segment of the working population in Ireland currently.

    Unions are needed to have guaranteed working hours and pay, standard working conditions, a guaranteed pension ect. All these things are already there for people working in the public sector generally.

    It is private sector employees who need unions in this country. To ensure no zero hour contracts, to have guaranteed overtime payed, to be paid at least the minimum wage, to have a guaranteed pension after a set amount of working years, to have job security ect.

    Unions are usually fighting for the rights of the wrong segment of workers in Ireland.


    AFAIK the last strike in the health service was to reduce duration of working shifts for doctors to a maximum of 24 hours. It was a single day strike like this proposed one where EDs stayed open and emergencies were managed normally.


  • #66
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    Should give it to the care assistants eg slaves


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  • #67
    trick
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭trick


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    Should give it to the care assistants eg slaves

    ???
    I worked as an agency care assistant when I trained. I was far from a slave!


  • #68
    Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    Should give it to the care assistants eg slaves

    Even with care assistants, the pay differential between public and private is really big, can be double in some cases.


  • #69
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    Should give it to the care assistants eg slaves

    More martyrdom - don't wanna lift landwhales -stay at home



    What we don't want is a nurse with years of experience unable anymore to work at 40 years of age because her back is knackered from lifting said landwhales


  • #70
    Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo


    thomasdylan wrote: »
    AFAIK the last strike in the health service was to reduce duration of working shifts for doctors to a maximum of 24 hours. It was a single day strike like this proposed one where EDs stayed open and emergencies were managed normally.

    Junior Doctors were treated horrendously in fairness. But that seemed like a legacy/anomaly issue when considered within the entire public sector as a whole.


  • #71
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »
    Junior Doctors were treated horrendously in fairness. But that seemed like a legacy/anomaly issue when considered within the entire public sector as a whole.

    Sh#t rolls down hill in hospitals and nurses and junior doctors get royally f#cked over.
    The huge shortcomings in the health service mean that staff are pretty much forced to sacrifice their own health, safety, friendships, relationships and lives to ensure patient safety.


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  • #72
    Guffy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,177 ✭✭✭Guffy


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    Should give it to the care assistants eg slaves

    My ex was a care assistant for a while. She was paid more than the nurses


  • #73
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I think they deserve it. From a quick skim of the inmo payscale it seems to take about 8 years to get to 40 grand from grad.

    (Great cash in Cavan/Mayo general, but rubbish trying to live in in Dublin central)

    If you want to keep keen bright staff in the job ya gotta pay them. And I'd reckon nurses have got lots of options for other jobs to go to.


    However.... The other unions teachers etc etc will be watching to make claims if the nurses win, so the government will fight it, at least for a while.


    *Did somebody mention that they do 13 hour shifts and 7 nights in a row too? Isn't that illegal?


  • #74
    Guffy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,177 ✭✭✭Guffy


    professore wrote: »
    Why am I paying 3.5k in fees for my daughter then?

    Your paying admin fees and student levees, same as nurses




    That's part of their education.

    Do other pub sector jobs have unpaid placement throughout their degrees. Afaik teachers dont go on placement for the first 3 years of theirs.



    That's not bad at all for a starting salary. Cue the comparisons with top end 1% Google programmers.

    Teacher starts at 36k gardai at 29k



    The laundry room position will still be stuck down at that level several years hence.

    Nurses max out around 44k after 12 years with no further promotion/education. A teacher retires at 68k which is insane when you look at the holidays they get along with that ( https://www.education.ie/en/Education-Staff/Information/Payroll-Financial-Information/Salary-Scales/Salary-Scales.html )


    .


  • #75
    trick
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭trick


    Topgear on Dave wrote: »
    I think they deserve it. From a quick skim of the inmo payscale it seems to take about 8 years to get to 40 grand from grad.

    (Great cash in Cavan/Mayo general, but rubbish trying to live in in Dublin central)

    If you want to keep keen bright staff in the job ya gotta pay them. And I'd reckon nurses have got lots of options for other jobs to go to.


    However.... The other unions teachers etc etc will be watching to make claims if the nurses win, so the government will fight it, at least for a while.


    *Did somebody mention that they do 13 hour shifts and 7 nights in a row too? Isn't that illegal?


    I know this isn’t directed at me.
    Nurses hours are based on quarters.
    Every quarter you can’t work more than 48hours per week average.
    Eg Jan - March, working 3 weeks of nights average and the rest days. Once the total amount of hours doesn’t add up to more than 48 hours averaged over the 3 months then it is legal.

    Hospitals seem to be changing the way they roster though. A lot of hospitals will have their nights over 2 weeks. 4 nights week 1 and then 3 week 2 with 7 off in between. The negative side to that is that you could finish nights Monday morning and be back on day shifts on Tuesday.


  • #76
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Which is lovely n all but being tired like that has the same effect as being under the influence of alcohol


  • #77
    DS86DS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 691 ✭✭✭DS86DS


    Nurses in this country are far to quick to complain. They have a good wage as well as plenty of public sector benefits as well as a cushy retirement plan in line with other public sector professions.

    If they are not happy with their calling in life, then there are others to fill the roll. And a nurses first priority should be in helping the sick, not holding the country to randsome.


  • #78
    kona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Which is lovely n all but being tired like that has the same effect as being under the influence of alcohol

    Plenty of other jobs that do similar hours in roles that you wouldn't be too happy to find out were performed under such conditions.

    The HSE needs to be split into 2 seperate companies or departments. One for frontline staff who are essential and fundamental to the function of healthcare.

    Another for admin/office/middle managers.

    Then see where the money is going and make appropriate corrections.


  • #79
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    kona wrote: »

    Plenty of other jobs that do similar hours in roles that you wouldn't be too happy to find out were performed under such conditions.......


    Which other jobs ? Name a few



    It still doesn't change the fact, if you say.... get hit by a car in the middle of the day

    A few of those that may be around you with your life in their hands may as well be under the influence of alcohol

    .


  • #80
    kona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Which other jobs ? Name a few

    .

    Firemen
    Gardai
    Paramedics
    People who certify and carry out maintenance on machines that carry hundreds sometimes thousands of people.

    Although i do think saying people are going to die if nurses go on strike is quite unbalanced really. Id say its very unlikely.


  • #81
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    kona wrote: »
    ......


    People who certify and carry out maintenance on machines that carry hundreds sometimes thousands of people.

    .

    What are these mysterious machines ?


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  • #82
    RHJ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 925 ✭✭✭RHJ


    gctest50 wrote: »
    What are these mysterious machines ?

    I'm guessing he's talking about trains.


  • #83
    Addle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Addle


    Do they really do a good job?
    They do a lot less than they used to.
    They have aids and porters now.
    Unfortunately I've spent a lot of time in hospitals lately and all I see any of them do is take blood pressure/temp and dole out prescriptions. They don't make any decisions. They don't help feed or clean.
    I haven't seen them in intensive care units, but I have experienced A&Es, HDUs and general hospital wards in Dublin and provincial locations.
    Very few of them seem to have a genuine caring nature.


  • #84
    Alrigghtythen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Alrigghtythen


    mad muffin wrote: »
    How much do you put on your life? Your family’s? Loved ones? You want the best healthcare and you want it now, but you don’t think you should pay too much for it?

    How much is too much? €30K? €60K? €100K? How much did the politicians pay rise pay themselves recently because they think they are doing such a good job?

    Was the pay restoration not promised to the nurses? Did they get it? Did the politicians get theirs?

    How much of the current crisis in the health care is the governments fault? How much of it is down to the austerity measures implemented 10 years ago? The pay freeze. The levies and charged? The recruitment ban? All the money spent on agency nurses?

    Do you want nurses to work 50? 60? Hours per week? Do you want to be treated by someone who’s worked that many hours in a high pressure situation when your life depends on it?

    Do you even know what’s it like being in nurse in a hospital in Ireland?

    If they do get their pay rise, they deserve every single cent of it.

    It’s a pity they have to go on strike for it. What was promised to them. And frankly what they deserve.

    The best healtcare? We are so far from best health are. Have you been in hospital lately?


  • #85
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Alrigghtythen wrote: »

    The best healtcare? We are so far from best health are. Have you been in hospital lately?

    Lately ?

    Jul 29, 2006


    A nurse who exhibited "disgraceful" conduct while on duty as the sole nurse responsible for 40 patients at a nursing home must have her name erased from the nursing register, the High Court directed yesterday.

    It was "fortunate indeed" that none of the residents of Stella Maris Nursing Home at Commer, Tuam, Co Galway had suffered any adverse consequences from Nurse Cliona Finnegan's behaviour and lack of proper nursing care, Mr Justice Brian McGovern said.

    Her condition on the night in question "could be described as disgraceful" and her conduct fell seriously short of the standards to be expected among a member of the nursing profession. She had offered no proper explanation for her behaviour and he found her guilty of professional misconduct.

    Mr Justice McGovern was dismissing an appeal by Ms Finnegan, Kileen, Oakpark, Tralee, Co Kerry, who had been employed as a part-time nurse at Stella Maris, against a finding of professional misconduct made against her last February by the Fitness to Practise Committee of An Bord Altranais (Nursing Board).

    It was alleged Ms Finnegan had remained on duty on a night in August 2002 when she was not in a fit condition, thereby putting patients at risk. The committee upheld claims she caused drugs at the home to be in such disarray as to render it difficult or impossible to determine whether or to what extent they had been administered to patients.

    The committee also upheld allegations that she had rested or slept part of the time while she was on duty, appeared intoxicated, had a brown stain around her mouth, spoke in an incoherent manner and failed to provide any or any proper nursing care to patients.

    It rejected her claims that was suffering from a physical or mental disability rendering her unfit to engage in nursing, but recommended her name be struck from the nursing register.

    Mr Justice McGovern was told there would be two carers and a nurse on duty at night caring for 40 patients. One carer said there were delays in Ms Finnegan administering tablets. One patient had complained there was half a tablet missing but Ms Finnegan said the patient got all her tablets.

    A carer said that later that night, she went to answer a bell and found Ms Finnegan lying on the floor of a bedroom occupied by a married couple who were patients at the home. She was crying a lot.

    The judge said Ms Finnegan was found at the office station on the floor. She was put on a chair and was upset. There was a tray of medication scattered on the floor. A carer had described her voice as slurred and she was told she should get some sleep. There was a strong smell from her breath, which smell the carer couldn't identify, and a brown stain around her lips.

    The judge noted a nurse who had replaced Ms Finnegan as the nurse on duty noticed all the drugs mixed up in what she described as a dangerous fashion on top of the medicine trolley and a brown liquid on the floor of the medicine room. That nurse was so concerned she had phoned the proprietor.



  • #86
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,457 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    hawkelady wrote: »
    As the title suggests ... do you think the government will give what the inmo is asking for ? The way pascal and Harris is talking it looks like it’s going to be a long drawn out process. Who will buckle first. Btw, I do hope the nurses get what they want and they do a great job.

    Of course they will. This is Ireland.


  • #87
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,457 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Topgear on Dave wrote: »
    I think they deserve it. From a quick skim of the inmo payscale it seems to take about 8 years to get to 40 grand from grad.

    (Great cash in Cavan/Mayo general, but rubbish trying to live in in Dublin central)

    If you want to keep keen bright staff in the job ya gotta pay them. And I'd reckon nurses have got lots of options for other jobs to go to.


    However.... The other unions teachers etc etc will be watching to make claims if the nurses win, so the government will fight it, at least for a while.


    *Did somebody mention that they do 13 hour shifts and 7 nights in a row too? Isn't that illegal?

    Well then there should be a weighting for working in Dublin.


  • #88
    zl1whqvjs75cdy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭zl1whqvjs75cdy


    I think they deserve it but I don't think we can afford it. The other public service sectors would walk out until they got a commensurate increase. It'd be chaos.


  • #89
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,845 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Should they not try and focus on work practices and reform no?


  • #90
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Alrigghtythen wrote: »
    The best healtcare? We are so far from best health are. Have you been in hospital lately?

    We don't hear much about this sorta thing

    TZzTOtA.png


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  • #91
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    need a pay rise for a new computer ?



    NAeobxu.png


  • #92
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    professore wrote: »
    That's not bad at all for a starting salary.

    It's peanuts.
    The laundry room position will still be stuck down at that level several years hence.

    People with skills have to tolerate paltry 'starting salaries' for some reason, whereas general operatives get paid for the work they do.

    Typical mendacious attitude of the begrudger.


    .


  • #93
    cruizer101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    I've heard the 55k figure trotted out a few times now and would love to know the source for it.

    Here is a link to the payscale https://www.inmo.ie/Salary_Information
    For staff nurse which would make up the majority of nursing staff the highest point on the scale is 45.7k, for the first level of manager the top is 53k.

    How then is the average figure 55k?

    I doubt it is an outright lie but it is far from representative of what most are getting.

    Just for comparison here is a teacher payscale https://www.into.ie/pay/PayScales/
    I don't think teachers have a particularly easy job like many do but I think that teachers are paid significantly more seems a bit mad. Both public sector jobs requiring a 4 year degree and to be fair teachers get great holidays. Even if the nurse payscale went some way closer to the teacher one I'm sure they would be happier.

    People say they know the salary before they start but thats not a reason to underpay someone, taking advantage of their passion for what is a pretty hard job.


  • #94
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    TheRiverman wrote: »
    Someday you might like to have nurses who are well paid and stress free if you are sick in hospital.I'm sure you would like to have the best possible care if you ever become a patient in a hospital ward.
    The point they are making is under the current pay and working conditions it is extremely hard to recruit new graduates into the HSE,leaving all hospitals short staffed and creating stress and danger to existing staff and also to patients.Extra beds are needed in every hospital in the country,that means more staff.Then there is the appalling situation of the HSE spending millions on agency staff every year.I could go on.

    I think that one of the best ways to reduce any stress the nurses are under is for them to work 8 hour days. This 13 hour day malarkey is beyond ridiculous. How can they expect to give the same level of care towards the end of a 13 hour shift as they can towards the end of an 8 hour one?


  • #95
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,212 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    There shouldn't be a pay increase outside of the already negotiated agreements.
    cruizer101 wrote: »
    I've heard the 55k figure trotted out a few times now and would love to know the source for it.

    Here is a link to the payscale https://www.inmo.ie/Salary_Information
    For staff nurse which would make up the majority of nursing staff the highest point on the scale is 45.7k, for the first level of manager the top is 53k.

    How then is the average figure 55k?

    I doubt it is an outright lie but it is far from representative of what most are getting.

    Just for comparison here is a teacher payscale https://www.into.ie/pay/PayScales/
    I don't think teachers have a particularly easy job like many do but I think that teachers are paid significantly more seems a bit mad. Both public sector jobs requiring a 4 year degree and to be fair teachers get great holidays. Even if the nurse payscale went some way closer to the teacher one I'm sure they would be happier.

    People say they know the salary before they start but thats not a reason to underpay someone, taking advantage of their passion for what is a pretty hard job.
    Average is a common word for three different terms. Mean, Median and mode.
    While the mean (the gross sum of all earners divided by the number of earners) is useful, it can be distorted by outliers.


    I'd suspect the mean is 55k as quoted but this includes all managers etc, whereas the median would give a better position of the middle value earner. Probably low 30s


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    Should give it to the care assistants eg slaves



    I agree, my partner was a care assistant for years and the crap (literal and figurative) that is thrown at them is ridiculous. If you're directly employed by the HSE then you are on the relative gravy train of HSE PS wage scales, but if you are employed by an agency (eg Bluebird Care, comfortkeepers etc) then you are likely just above minimum wage).
    She had to give it up due to physical and mental issues directly caused by the job, and now works in an office job for substantially more pay and a 9-5 mon-friday working life.

    After hearing tales of what happened to her and her colleagues , I admire the work done by these healthcare professionals, couldnt do the job myself even if I was on double my wages.


  • #96
    Mitch Connor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,276 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    They want more money yet they are giving out about conditions and worried about patients safety?

    Which is it, surely they should want the extra money spent on recruitment if they are giving out about staff shortages?

    More union greed, where will it end?

    Another bankrupt country in a few years.

    They can't get staff cause the wages are too low, far better money in England for example. Strugglign to bring in foreign staff (a backbone of the sector) for the same reason, many are going to Australia or America where possible cause the money is better.

    There is a recruitment drive, and loads of positions available, but if your conditions aren't attactive you will struggle to fill the positions.

    As for Union greed... lol. Nurses are woefully underpaid based on time to qualification, responsibilities and working hours. Nursing is an undervalued public service role.


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  • #97
    marvin80
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭marvin80


    Deise Vu wrote: »
    Of course they will get it. The irony is that after getting it, if Leo calls an election in the Autumn they will be out again.

    The budget plus income for the health service is €22bn, that’s €5k for every man, woman and child in the country. If nurses, by far the largest cohort in the health service are undermanned and under paid as claimed by their mouthpiece, where the fcuk is the money being spent?

    This post sums it up nicely:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108902382&postcount=3


  • #98
    Drumpot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    Mitch Connor wrote: »
    They can't get staff cause the wages are too low, far better money in England for example. Strugglign to bring in foreign staff (a backbone of the sector) for the same reason, many are going to Australia or America where possible cause the money is better.

    There is a recruitment drive, and loads of positions available, but if your conditions aren't attactive you will struggle to fill the positions.

    As for Union greed... lol. Nurses are woefully underpaid based on time to qualification, responsibilities and working hours. Nursing is an undervalued public service role.

    Agree with this wholeheartedly. I’m not sure I can personally say what a nurse should be paid but I’ve seen ALOT of nureses in my job that when retired or coming up to retirement. They are usually mentally and/or emotionally scarred badly by what they have had to endure. The sh*t they have to put up from everybody, including doctors and bad managers is on its own an impressive example of how comited they are to to their jobs.

    It’s funny reading comments from people who probably don’t know much more then figures , political narratives and the media propaganda that loves to point the finger at the people at the bottom. It’s remarkable that those at the top of all things (companies, politics , public service) are generally excused or ignored when these sort of discussions come up. Perhaps wages of nurses is not the biggest waste of issue within the HSE, it’s just an easier way of publicly getting support to save a few pennies.

    I’ve heard stories from multiple sources on how the hse is run and it would make your skin crawl if you heard the truths. I know of examples of where a cheaper private alternative was offered that would save the taxpayers millions but a more expensive , less consumer friendly option was chosen simply because hospitaks didn’t want to lose any control over certain aspects of its patients care. I’ve heard of examples where hse sent special cases across to Britain instead of using an Irish alternative just because the person making the decision didn’t agree on the terms , even though it was cheaper to use the Irish service. These aren’t the skin crawling cases BTW! It’s a money pit of wastage , awful management and zero accountability/responsibility taken on any meaningful level. The nurses are the last people we should begrudge on any level TBH.


  • #99
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,472 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Find nurses and their media conduct absolutely draining to listen to. They all go on with the same Mother Theresa act- “underpaid and over worked”- seems the actual stats tell quite a different story.
    If they all hate their jobs so much, why don’t go they go do something else? Even better still do not sign up to it in the first place.
    Not one of them ever seems to have a solution to the various A&E crises etc- that’s what most of us in our professions do, see challenges and come up with ideas to solve them.
    But with nurses it’s always someone’s fault or issue to deal with. They’re a perfect example of when you get too many females working in one area, very little gets achieved apart from becoming eternal martyrs and whining.
    For the amount we spend on healthcare salaries, serious analysis needs to be undertaken on value for money and what many of them are actually doing.


  • #100
    Padraig Mor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,574 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    cruizer101 wrote: »
    I've heard the 55k figure trotted out a few times now and would love to know the source for it.

    Here is a link to the payscale https://www.inmo.ie/Salary_Information
    For staff nurse which would make up the majority of nursing staff the highest point on the scale is 45.7k, for the first level of manager the top is 53k.

    How then is the average figure 55k?

    I doubt it is an outright lie but it is far from representative of what most are getting.

    Just for comparison here is a teacher payscale https://www.into.ie/pay/PayScales/
    I don't think teachers have a particularly easy job like many do but I think that teachers are paid significantly more seems a bit mad. Both public sector jobs requiring a 4 year degree and to be fair teachers get great holidays. Even if the nurse payscale went some way closer to the teacher one I'm sure they would be happier.

    People say they know the salary before they start but thats not a reason to underpay someone, taking advantage of their passion for what is a pretty hard job.

    Average staff nurse pay in Ireland is €57k as referenced in a Dail committee in the last few weeks. This includes premium payments which add - according to the unions themselves - approx 25% to the salary of the average nurse. The number of nurses (if any) on the 'plain' scale with no extras is tiny. I always find it amusing that people contort themselves to deny the simple truth that nurses in Ireland are paid very well. Or do they think that the Dept of Health are lying?
    Deleted User wrote: »
    I think that one of the best ways to reduce any stress the nurses are under is for them to work 8 hour days. This 13 hour day malarkey is beyond ridiculous. How can they expect to give the same level of care towards the end of a 13 hour shift as they can towards the end of an 8 hour one?
    They work 13 hour shifts because they want to - guaranteed premium payments, plus 3 or 4 days a week off. If I could work 3 x 13 hour days rather than 5 x 8, I'd jump at the chance.


  • #101
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    road_high wrote: »
    Find nurses and their media conduct absolutely draining to listen to. They all go on with the same Mother Theresa act- “underpaid and over worked”- seems the actual stats tell quite a different story.
    If they all hate their jobs so much, why don’t go they go do something else? Even better still do not sign up to it in the first place.
    Not one of them ever seems to have a solution to the various A&E crises etc- that’s what most of us in our professions do, see challenges and come up with ideas to solve them.
    But with nurses it’s always someone’s fault or issue to deal with. They’re a perfect example of when you get too many females working in one area, very little gets achieved apart from becoming eternal martyrs and whining.
    For the amount we spend on healthcare salaries, serious analysis needs to be undertaken on value for money and what many of them are actually doing.

    The most ill informed post in the whole thread.


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