Has ignoring red lights gotten a lot worse?

AndrewJRenko · 19-12-2018 10:55pm

Here's a short compilation of the red-light-jumping junction-blocking drivers of Dublin, opening with Macken St, the junction that keeps on giving;

https://streamable.com/mtunz

Try_harder · 19-12-2018 11:32pm

Infirmary Road onto Parkgate Street in Dublin, lights are merely a suggestion apparently they just go well after red! And Gardai there at the Court House the whole time!!!

prinzeugen · 20-12-2018 2:34am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Here's a short compilation of the red-light-jumping junction-blocking drivers of Dublin, opening with Macken St, the junction that keeps on giving;

https://streamable.com/mtunz

You broke a red light in one and another cyclist did in another. Pot, kettle, black! Green men are for pedestrians only. By law you broke a red light.

The Road Traffic Act applies to all road users.

Charles Babbage · 20-12-2018 2:45am

prinzeugen wrote: »

You broke a red light in one and another cyclist did in another. Pot, kettle, black! Green men are for pedestrians only. By law you broke a red light.

The Road Traffic Act applies to all road users.

No, cyclists can do what they like. Red light cameras are indeed needed, but even if they are installed they will not prosecute the cyclists recorded on them.

EdgeCase · 20-12-2018 9:52am

Part of the issue here compared to the continent is lack of local police in cities.

If you look at the way things work in most countries you've city police who are more like a level above parking wardens who can handle things like enforcement of traffic law at busy junctions at peak times and issue tickets for things like this.

What Username Guidelines · 20-12-2018 10:24am

Charles Babbage wrote: »

No, cyclists can do what they like. Red light cameras are indeed needed, but even if they are installed they will not prosecute the cyclists recorded on them.

I've always been an absolute stickler for stopping at every red light on the bike, no matter how deserted a junction may be, and would always say there is no excuse for cyclists breaking red lights. But, if you witness this kind of thing every day, (not my video) you cannot argue that a cyclist breaking a red is equal to a motorist doing it.

https://twitter.com/cavan97/status/1075653723504984064

EdgeCase · 20-12-2018 10:28am

What's changed that this has come to be acceptable ?

What Username Guidelines · 20-12-2018 10:32am

EdgeCase wrote: »

What's changed that this has come to be acceptable ?

No fear of punishment, probably been building since gardai/traffic corps numbers reduced. It's a snowball effect - people see others do it more frequently and get away with it. Even when there are gardai about, they have very little 'presence'.

EdgeCase · 20-12-2018 10:42am

If it's not tackled, I would just predict you'll see a rise in pedestrian deaths.

downtheroad · 20-12-2018 10:57am

A few weeks ago I saw an artic lorry accelerate towards the junction of New Wapping St and the quays because the lights went amber. He was a good 50 metres away from the junction at this time. Lights went red for him and several seconds later he turned out on to the quays. Was tempted to report him but it would be my word against his.

I lived in Sydney for a few years and they have red light cameras on many junctions which work fantastically well, and as somebody mentioned earlier there is a very bright flash if you get caught so you know instantly.

I emailed Shane Ross suggesting these be implemented in Ireland and that they would pay for themselves in fines generated, but was told by his secretary that it is not a matter for the Minister for Transport, and I should contact the Minister for Justice as it is a policing matter.

Tilikum17 · 20-12-2018 11:00am

I live in Galway. Travel across the city twice daily for work.

The amount of people running reds lights is absolutely ridiculous.

Macy0161 · 20-12-2018 11:54am

Charles Babbage wrote: »

No, cyclists can do what they like. Red light cameras are indeed needed, but even if they are installed they will not prosecute the cyclists recorded on them.

Regardless of the false equivalence of consequences, why couldn't cameras be used against cyclists? Particularly at commuter times.

That's where the input of the gardai could be effective on foot of the camera's, to identify offenders from cameras, or they would give evidence of what junctions to target for enforcement.

Stark · 20-12-2018 12:08pm

Macy0161 wrote: »

Regardless of the false equivalence of consequences, why couldn't cameras be used against cyclists? Particularly at commuter times.

That's where the input of the gardai could be effective on foot of the camera's, to identify offenders from cameras, or they would give evidence of what junctions to target for enforcement.

How would you identify a cyclist from a photograph? There are no number plates to allow a straightforward lookup. And thankfully we're not in an era of facial recognition surveillance yet.

RayCun · 20-12-2018 12:15pm

So since everyone is in favour of red light cameras, how about writing letters to your local TDs, the Minister, and opposition spokespeople on Justice and transport?

Carlingford Locked · 20-12-2018 1:16pm

I've been trying to take note of how many cars break red lights in Dublin city, as I'm sick to death of any mention of cyclists, who aren't a danger to anyone except themselves really, being associated with red light breaking etc., as if breaking a red light on a bicycle is leading to the downfall of civilisation as we know it.
This morning 3 cars broke the red light coming onto the bridge at North Strand from Crosby's Yard. Merrion Sq onto Merrion row, 3 cars kept going while light was red to make the turn. Saw 2 other cars race through amber/red near my house too.
Also nearly every day I have civilian cars right up my arse in bus lanes. Apparently if there's a turn you're taking up to 500m away or so, they think it's ok to be in the bus lane as they're turning left.
So the anti cyclist med and car drivers can f*ck the f*ck off. Cyclists aren't the ones killing and maiming people. Any article about a cyclist death on the Journal, the commenters all blame the cyclist. Not the machine heap of metal flying around the place at 100km/h.
There was a poor woman pedestrian killed by a car in Galway I think a few weeks ago. Again the blame pointed at pedestrians not being visible. Maybe we should go around lit up like Xmas trees.
Our country is way too carcentric and they seem to have all the sway. I can't see it changing any time either.

CramCycle · 20-12-2018 2:51pm

Macy0161 wrote: »

Regardless of the false equivalence of consequences, why couldn't cameras be used against cyclists? Particularly at commuter times.

That's where the input of the gardai could be effective on foot of the camera's, to identify offenders from cameras, or they would give evidence of what junctions to target for enforcement.

Stark wrote: »

How would you identify a cyclist from a photograph? There are no number plates to allow a straightforward lookup. And thankfully we're not in an era of facial recognition surveillance yet.

It is actually incredibly simple. RL camera, as well as ANPR, an observer can highlight places with high levels of repeat light breaking, as well as take snapshots of offenders faces. Most cyclists reuse the same route for commuting. Post a three person team to literally pull them over, out of the queue in the morning (they are able to do it to hand out ****ty Hi Vis), and hand them the fine. If there is confusion over their ID or non acceptance, sieze the bike until they turn up at the station. It really is beautifully simple.

Carlingford Locked · 20-12-2018 3:12pm

Should we be capturing jaywalker's faces on camera too? I would imagine they're about as dangerous to traffic as cyclists are. Some of the stupid sh*t you see in town, people just walk straight out in front of buses etc. Why is it only a problem if you're on a bike for people?

greenwaving · 20-12-2018 3:15pm

CramCycle wrote: »

It is actually incredibly simple. RL camera, as well as ANPR, an observer can highlight places with high levels of repeat light breaking, as well as take snapshots of offenders faces. Most cyclists reuse the same route for commuting. Post a three person team to literally pull them over, out of the queue in the morning (they are able to do it to hand out ****ty Hi Vis), and hand them the fine. If there is confusion over their ID or non acceptance, sieze the bike until they turn up at the station. It really is beautifully simple.

But why go to all that trouble using valuable and limited time and resources? What impact will it have other than to make individuals like yourself feel better about themselves? The little boy in the OP was killed by vehicle. I don't know of any red-light breaking cyclists who have killed other road users but I do know vehicles have. Given the pressures the guards are under and the reality that there is not a limitless money pot of resources to throw at this problem surely the focus should be on those that are likely to cause danger/risk to life - vehicle drivers.

I cycle. I don't break red lights. I see lots of other cyclists obeying the lights. I also see other cyclists who don't. Antidotely I see more cars break the lights than any cyclist. Sure it annoys me when cyclists go through red lights because unfortunately people like to lump us all together as a homogeneous group so their behaviour gives the rest of us a bad name and provides ammunition for keyboardwarriers/joe duffy callers. But I also recognise that the risk of this behaviour to anyone other than themselves is usually pretty minimal. I don't condone it but I really don't think we should be ploughing money into 3 man teams to be set up at 'cyclists-running-red-lights-black-spots' in order to catch the idiots.

engiweirdo · 20-12-2018 3:15pm

Carlingford Locked wrote: »

Should we be capturing jaywalker's faces on camera too? I would imagine they're about as dangerous to traffic as cyclists are. Some of the stupid sh*t you see in town, people just walk straight out in front of buses etc. Why is it only a problem if you're on a bike for people?

I think the main difference to be fair is the jaywalker isn't a chunk of steel weighing the bones of a tonne.

Carlingford Locked · 20-12-2018 3:18pm

engiweirdo wrote: »

I think the main difference to be fair is the jaywalker isn't a chunk of steel weighing the bones of a tonne.

I'm referring to someone above wanting to capture cyclist's faces that are breaking lights. If they're going to do bikes, they may as well do jaywalkers too.

magicbastarder · 20-12-2018 3:19pm

engiweirdo wrote: »

I think the main difference to be fair is the jaywalker isn't a chunk of steel weighing the bones of a tonne.

yeah, if it's €80 for running a red in a car, to fine a pedestrian any more than €5 for jaywalking would be grossly unfair.

CramCycle · 20-12-2018 4:22pm

greenwaving wrote: »

But why go to all that trouble using valuable and limited time and resources? What impact will it have other than to make individuals like yourself feel better about themselves? The little boy in the OP was killed by vehicle. I don't know of any red-light breaking cyclists who have killed other road users but I do know vehicles have. Given the pressures the guards are under and the reality that there is not a limitless money pot of resources to throw at this problem surely the focus should be on those that are likely to cause danger/risk to life - vehicle drivers.

it won't make me feel better, I was saying it would be actually quite simple and cheap to set up, and if they only done it a fwe times a year, it would reinforce the idea that it is inappropriate. I don't care, I cycle everywhere, I stop at red lights and have been attacked for doing so by one driver who thought I had done it to annoy them. I erally don't give a flying f*ck, just saying if it is a huge concern for the public, and they are using it as some sort of childish, well why don't they get in trouble for it, why don't I, that you can actually do it, easily and without issue.

This of course annoys people like this, because then they no longer have their moanbag excuse not to put in the RL cameras.

I cycle. I don't break red lights. I see lots of other cyclists obeying the lights. I also see other cyclists who don't. Antidotely I see more cars break the lights than any cyclist. Sure it annoys me when cyclists go through red lights because unfortunately people like to lump us all together as a homogeneous group so their behaviour gives the rest of us a bad name and provides ammunition for keyboardwarriers/joe duffy callers. But I also recognise that the risk of this behaviour to anyone other than themselves is usually pretty minimal. I don't condone it but I really don't think we should be ploughing money into 3 man teams to be set up at 'cyclists-running-red-lights-black-spots' in order to catch the idiots.

100%, cyclist breaking red lights is not a major issue, most people when on bikes are more concerned about arriving alive than the lights, and for that reason, don't tend to run lights. I was just making the point, cyclists breaking lights is not a reason not to put up the cameras, in fact it is a stupid reason, and I have given a way around it, at little cost (not ploughing money in as you say).

AndrewJRenko · 20-12-2018 7:13pm

prinzeugen wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Here's a short compilation of the red-light-jumping junction-blocking drivers of Dublin, opening with Macken St, the junction that keeps on giving;

https://streamable.com/mtunz

You broke a red light in one and another cyclist did in another. Pot, kettle, black! Green men are for pedestrians only. By law you broke a red light.

The Road Traffic Act applies to all road users.

You need to do some research on how the lights work on the canal cycle track.

Busman Paddy Lasty · 21-12-2018 8:41am

This has definitely increased over the last few years. Every day at almost every major junction on the Old Airport Road I see this happen.

Very dangerous at junctions with two crossings. Drivers focused on getting through the first crossing, reaching the second crossing at speed when pedestrians are already half way across.

Camera enforcement needed to cut this out.

Dravokivich · 21-12-2018 10:24am

magicbastarder wrote: »

yeah, if it's €80 for running a red in a car, to fine a pedestrian any more than €5 for jaywalking would be grossly unfair.

Why should accountability for jaywalking not be the same? The argument in this whole thread is that someone is on a part of the road they shouldn't be at a point in time. The issue with law is ruling to exceptions regarding why they are there. But not whether they are pedestrian, cyclist, motor cylclist, or any sort of vehicle being driven.

magicbastarder · 21-12-2018 10:31am

i actually am struggling to come up with a reason that isn't the bloody obvious.

greenwaving · 21-12-2018 10:36am

Dravokivich wrote: »

magicbastarder wrote: »

yeah, if it's €80 for running a red in a car, to fine a pedestrian any more than €5 for jaywalking would be grossly unfair.

Why should accountability for jaywalking not be the same? The argument in this whole thread is that someone is on a part of the road they shouldn't be at a point in time. The issue with law is ruling to exceptions regarding why they are there. But not whether they are pedestrian, cyclist, motor cylclist, or any sort of vehicle being driven.

If you look at the OP the "argument" on this whole thread arose from a the death of child by a driver who ignored the lights and the potential for risk to the lives of other vunerable road users due to similar behaviour from other drivers out there. When pedestrians start killing children due to their jaywalking maybe then we should look at tackling their "crimes".

Dravokivich · 21-12-2018 10:40am

magicbastarder wrote: »

i actually am struggling to come up with a reason that isn't the bloody obvious.

Don't strain yourself too hard. I'm not expecting the "obvious" to be up to scratch anyway if you're just going to say a Pedestrian can't do the same damage as a car.

It's not the drivers fault a jaywalker is on the road. And it can be quiet traumatic if a jaywalker was to come out and be struck as a result.

All people using the road should have the same accountability for their use of it regardless of the mode.

Pointing the finger at some who jumping red lights, is only looking to increase the rift that exists between modes.

I'm a pedestrian, a cyclist, a commuter and a driver. Everyone who uses the road needs to be accountable for it.

greenwaving wrote: »

If you look at the OP the "argument" on this whole thread arose from a the death of child by a driver who ignored the lights and the potential for risk to the lives of other vunerable road users due to similar behaviour from other drivers out there. When pedestrians start killing children due to their jaywalking maybe then we should look at tackling their "crimes".

I use to drive through Dublin City frequently. Everyday I saw adults pull kids across the road with them into traffic.

amcalester · 21-12-2018 10:49am

Dravokivich wrote: »

All people using the road should have the same accountability for their use of it regardless of the mode.

There's your mistake, you're thinking of it as using the road but you should be thinking of it as using the mode of transport and responsibilities already differ depending on the mode used.

Different age limits exist depending on the mode.
Different tests.
Speed Limits.
Amount of hours one can legally drive
etc

magicbastarder · 21-12-2018 10:49am

Dravokivich wrote: »

All people using the road should have the same accountability for their use of it regardless of the mode.

no, no, and thrice no.
there is a sliding scale of accountability and responsibility - and yes, ability to do damage. this false equivalence of pedestrians and motorists is absurd.
we expect higher standards of behaviour from jet aircraft pilots than we do of motorists. and higher standards from motorists than we do from pedestrians.

it's why society allows my 13 year old niece to cycle her bike on the road, but won't let her drive a car.

it's not an accident that motorists need a licence, insurance, and NCT to be allowed on the road. i've a rather sneaking suspicion that you'll find that more motorists are responsible for road deaths than pedestrians.

greenwaving · 21-12-2018 10:57am

Dravokivich wrote: »

I use to drive through Dublin City frequently. Everyday I saw adults pull kids across the road with them into traffic.

Which is stupidity at its finest but it only puts their own lives (and families) at risk. It's an entirely different scenario than vehicles flying through pedestrian crossings on red lights putting the lives of pedestrians and other car users coming through on a green at risk. Trying to equate them is nonsense and a false equivalence. They are different scenarios, carry different risks and as such should be tackled entirely differently.

road_high · 21-12-2018 11:00am

I wish people would just fcukin GOOO!! the instant a light turns green. Far too much doddering around at lights with the result you get trapped unnecessarily at more reds. Might be a reason why more people are breaking them

amcalester · 21-12-2018 11:02am

road_high wrote: »

I wish people would just fcukin GOOO!! the instant a light turns green. Far too much doddering around at lights with the result you get trapped unnecessarily at more reds. Might be a reason why more people are breaking them

The person not moving off is probably on their phone.

RayCun · 21-12-2018 11:10am

road_high wrote: »

I wish people would just fcukin GOOO!! the instant a light turns green. Far too much doddering around at lights with the result you get trapped unnecessarily at more reds. Might be a reason why more people are breaking them

1. people on their phones
2. people who know that just because the other roads at the junction have a red light doesn't mean there won't be any cars coming

AndrewJRenko · 21-12-2018 11:19am

Dravokivich wrote: »

All people using the road should have the same accountability for their use of it regardless of the mode.

Interesting theory. Would you like to share your tachograph recording from your last car journey?

You know that HGV and coach drivers have to have tachos, and you're keen for ALL PEOPLE to have the same accountability, so you must have a tacho fitted, right? And you did your mandatory one day training for this year already? If not, just a few days to go so you'd better book in.

magicbastarder · 21-12-2018 11:29am

does that mean mandatory fitbits for anyone walking to the shops?

Ray Bloody Purchase · 21-12-2018 11:33am

magicbastarder wrote: »

does that mean mandatory fitbits for anyone walking to the shops?

Or when i'm walking back from the pub after drinking 12 pints responsibly.

amcalester · 21-12-2018 11:39am

Ray Bloody Purchase wrote: »

Or when i'm walking back from the pub after drinking 12 pints responsibly.

Wheres the fun in drinking 12 pints responsibly?

Get Real · 21-12-2018 11:43am

amcalester wrote: »

It seems to have gotten much worse, time to introduce red light cameras.

I saw a motorcyclist collide with a truck that ran a red light and turned across the motorcyclist, waited for the Guards to arrive to leave my details/make a statement but they didn't care. Left my name and never heard anything back.

Just today I saw 3 cars that were stopped at a pedestrian crossing all break the red light once the pedestrian had crossed. They got less than 50 up the road before they rejoined the traffic jam so not sure why they bothered.

I think the penalty should be increased for breaking reds. In this instance though you probably never heard anything back as a statement wasn't needed. Truck driver could have paid a ticket (rather than risk going to court about it as he's a professional driver) and a statement wasn't needed from you.

If he was going to contest the matter then you would have been needed.

Dravokivich · 21-12-2018 11:47am

amcalester wrote: »

There's your mistake, you're thinking of it as using the road but you should be thinking of it as using the mode of transport and responsibilities already differ depending on the mode used.

Different age limits exist depending on the mode.
Different tests.
Speed Limits.
Amount of hours one can legally drive
etc

You can't cross the road without using it. The road traffic act, also references pedestrians and when/how they should cross the road.

magicbastarder wrote: »

no, no, and thrice no.
there is a sliding scale of accountability and responsibility - and yes, ability to do damage. this false equivalence of pedestrians and motorists is absurd.
we expect higher standards of behaviour from jet aircraft pilots than we do of motorists. and higher standards from motorists than we do from pedestrians.

it's why society allows my 13 year old niece to cycle her bike on the road, but won't let her drive a car.

it's not an accident that motorists need a licence, insurance, and NCT to be allowed on the road. i've a rather sneaking suspicion that you'll find that more motorists are responsible for road deaths than pedestrians.

So what about pilots? Should we bring in boats now as well? You are just stretching out to more advanced skill sets, to say ones responsibility is only determined by the criteria they've met? I don't expect anything to prevent someone from flying a plane who doesn't know how to drive a vehicle of any sort.

greenwaving wrote: »

Which is stupidity at its finest but it only puts their own lives (and families) at risk. It's an entirely different scenario than vehicles flying through pedestrian crossings on red lights putting the lives of pedestrians and other car users coming through on a green at risk. Trying to equate them is nonsense and a false equivalence. They are different scenarios, carry different risks and as such should be tackled entirely differently.

I was responding to the person who was trivialising the accountability of someone who'll put themselves and others at risk by Jaywalking.

I never once said their should be nothing done against people who rush through red lights. Just that it's not a simple thing to bring in, because we already allow for it to occurr.

road_high wrote: »

I wish people would just fcukin GOOO!! the instant a light turns green. Far too much doddering around at lights with the result you get trapped unnecessarily at more reds. Might be a reason why more people are breaking them

Green doesn't mean go.

amcalester wrote: »

The person not moving off is probably on their phone.

Or you know, looking around to see what's happening. To double check they can proceed.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Interesting theory. Would you like to share your tachograph recording from your last car journey?

You know that HGV and coach drivers have to have tachos, and you're keen for ALL PEOPLE to have the same accountability, so you must have a tacho fitted, right? And you did your mandatory one day training for this year already? If not, just a few days to go so you'd better book in.

Tachographs are for monitoring driving and rest time of professional drivers. I'm not one, so I don't have any to provide.

Some folks should read what's written for what it is before looking to just find a way to stamp down on it.

amcalester · 21-12-2018 12:08pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

You can't cross the road without using it. The road traffic act, also references pedestrians and when/how they should cross the road.

I don't understand the point you're trying to make.

Are you saying that the punishment for jaywalking should be the same as running a red, because all road users should be held equally accountable?

Does that then apply to all violations of the RTA?

Dravokivich wrote: »

Or you know, looking around to see what's happening. To double check they can proceed.

Perhaps the car at the front, but the driver 3 cars back with their face buried in their phone? Nah, pretty sure they are on their phone.

First Up · 21-12-2018 12:15pm

Like everything, the answer is enforcement. Cameras on the lights and fines/points for offenders. End of problem.

AndrewJRenko · 21-12-2018 12:27pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

Tachographs are for monitoring driving and rest time of professional drivers. I'm not one, so I don't have any to provide.

Some folks should read what's written for what it is before looking to just find a way to stamp down on it.

What I read from you was: "All people using the road should have the same accountability for their use of it regardless of the mode."

So it is 'all people' or not?

Or perhaps, are you seeing some logic in varying levels of accountability for different levels of risk and danger?

It's one or the other.

Corca Baiscinn · 21-12-2018 10:18pm

I posted the other day re having to stare down drivers who planned to proceed even tho' I was walking across at 2 pedestrian crossings. Yesterday I was crossing at the same place and a young fella just drove through anyway. Judging by this thread am thinking we should all be getting one of those loud bike horns to use when we need to at pedestrian crossings and green men!

Posters are absolutely right re the crazy time lapse allowed between light changes. Today I observed 2 cars turn right on red at one set of lights and a different 2 go straight through on red at another junction when lights were red for them but thing is it didn't cause any issue as they were well gone before the opposing lights changed. This of course reinforces the problem, "sure what's the big deal, haven't I loads of time!" Time for the cameras!

P_1 · 22-12-2018 10:16am

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

I posted the other day re having to stare down drivers who planned to proceed even tho' I was walking across at 2 pedestrian crossings. Yesterday I was crossing at the same place and a young fella just drove through anyway. Judging by this thread am thinking we should all be getting one of those loud bike horns to use when we need to at pedestrian crossings and green men!

Posters are absolutely right re the crazy time lapse allowed between light changes. Today I observed 2 cars turn right on red at one set of lights and a different 2 go straight through on red at another junction when lights were red for them but thing is it didn't cause any issue as they were well gone before the opposing lights changed. This of course reinforces the problem, "sure what's the big deal, haven't I loads of time!" Time for the cameras!

Never mind the cameras. I think I may start carrying a hammer with me soon. Break a red light in your car, shame about the cost of a new wing mirror there pal

AlekSmart · 22-12-2018 1:53pm

road_high wrote: »

I wish people would just fcukin GOOO!! the instant a light turns green. Far too much doddering around at lights with the result you get trapped unnecessarily at more reds. Might be a reason why more people are breaking them

How about Red/Red-Amber/Green as a method of reminding drivers that at some future point the light will change ? ( I believe they do this in some backward non-EU countries ? )

The real issue here is Driver Distraction,on so many differing levels in the modern motor vehicle,just watch the heads going down when vehivles stop at Red Lights.......Text....Facebook...Twitter....the list is endless.

magicbastarder · 22-12-2018 11:22pm

P_1 wrote: »

Never mind the cameras. I think I may start carrying a hammer with me soon. Break a red light in your car, shame about the cost of a new wing mirror there pal

ah here. no call for random acts of vandalism.

22-12-2018 11:32pm

Deleted User wrote: »

One of the causes of the "early red" syndrome it the fact that most motorists are aware that there is a gap in the timings when all lights are red, so they know that there is often two seconds before the next green the opposite way.

Maybe we should introduce the green/amber sequence into this gap, as used in the UK and several European countries, doing this will stop the red jumpers as they know that the cross traffic will appear almost immediately after the red light.

AlekSmart wrote: »

How about Red/Red-Amber/Green as a method of reminding drivers that at some future point the light will change ? ( I believe they do this in some backward non-EU countries ? )

The real issue here is Driver Distraction,on so many differing levels in the modern motor vehicle,just watch the heads going down when vehivles stop at Red Lights.......Text....Facebook...Twitter....the list is endless.

I agree as I already suggested as the red-amber in the sequence gives a far clearer indication that the lights have changed, unlike the red - green sequence which can be missed in the blink of an eye, sometimes people are slow to notice that change.

But the UK does have a problem with Amber Gamblers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4TDEPP1R9Q

P_1 · 22-12-2018 11:51pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

ah here. no call for random acts of vandalism.

True but when theres no enforcement what is someone left to do? Sometimes the mere threat of people taking the law into their own hands is enough to get the powers that be to take action

22-12-2018 11:55pm

P_1 wrote: »

True but when theres no enforcement what is someone left to do? Sometimes the mere threat of people taking the law into their own hands is enough to get the powers that be to take action

Look at France, even then tptb will only do the minimum to get the people to leave the streets.
They are tolerating some remaining out because they will not comply with the protesters demands.

Has ignoring red lights gotten a lot worse?

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