Star Citizen (Thinly veiled 'How many Irish backing this?')

R0ot · 16-11-2013 6:32pm

New WMH -

And dates for the Ship Sales (With LTI for all!) in the next couple of weeks.

Monday, November 18 – ORIGIN M50
Tuesday, November 19 – ORIGIN 350R & Lightspeed Package
Wednesday, November 20 – Drake Caterpillar
Thursday, November 21 – RSI Aurora LX
Friday, November 22 – Anvil Gladiator & Anvil Retaliator (running through the weekend)
Monday, November 25 – MISC Starfarer

The_Valeyard · 16-11-2013 6:39pm

May purchase the Starfarer, a sell paying ship

Completionist · 17-11-2013 1:46am

I am so confused.

Could someone explain the rationale behind paying real money for a ship? I understand it may be part reason to support the developers but can't you just buy the ships in game using currency you earn? It is so perplexing to see such a big deal around buying the ships, People trying to fit the most efficient purchases into budgets and seeing ships costing up to $1250 while the game is many months from being released.

Is the game going to be free to play or if not, would it be be required to purchase a ship in order to be in an even playing field with everyone else when ever the game releases? I don't want to miss out on the upcoming sale if purchasing a ship is required to be competitive.

I don't want to be flying around in a Scooty Puff Jr while everyone else is in a Scooty Puff Sr..

R0ot · 17-11-2013 10:42pm

Completionist wrote: »

Could someone explain the rationale behind paying real money for a ship? I understand it may be part reason to support the developers but can't you just buy the ships in game using currency you earn? It is so perplexing to see such a big deal around buying the ships, People trying to fit the most efficient purchases into budgets and seeing ships costing up to $1250 while the game is many months from being released.

Think of this like a giant kickstarter, the more they raise the more content they want to add (such as extra ships etc) for the finished game. While they do plan on having various updates through the lifecycle of the game the early stuff we get "promised" now is stuff that would have been years and years away. I'll agree it's all gone a bit mad with some of the ships the example you mention is an Idris corvette (biggest purchasable ship via pledge). The big seller here is the LTI (Lifetime insurance) which ends on the 26th of November for Original and Veteran backers but with the Anniversary Sale LTI on certain ships will be available to all again (but I believe they said at different prices than the OB or VB's get). LTI while it sounds game breaking it's been stated that this will really only be a small token to the early backers and nothing more and any insurance fraud detected will result in it being removed. They are also going to add a time limit to getting the ship back after it is stolen/destroyed but no specifics that I have seen on this yet. (doesn't mean there isn't a post somewhere about it)

Right now you could get the cheapest package that will get you Beta and Alpha access and just do the Hangar module, Dog fighting module end of the year/start of next year and onwards and never worry about anything until release where it'll depend on the time you put into the game as to what you get out. Sure people with large wallets will have an advantage at first but I struggle to name another MMO of similar scale which SC is aiming for that doesn't have the same issues.

Completionist wrote: »

Is the game going to be free to play or if not, would it be be required to purchase a ship in order to be in an even playing field with everyone else when ever the game releases? I don't want to miss out on the upcoming sale if purchasing a ship is required to be competitive.

The game will be similar to Guild Wars they've said, not a subscription model and not F2P either. One off purchase (not sure about expansions) and from there players will be able to earn everything in game they could pledge for at this time also however on release ships will not be purchasable via the Pledge store only UEC will be purchasable in-game item which you could then go buy ships in game. Now this doesn't mean player A can buy XXX UEC and then go buy an Idris in game either as it'll depend on availability/resources/demand/waiting lists etc for factories and the like. Chris Roberts has stated it won't be pay 2 win model as you can earn everything in game through time but want to allow people the ability to play casually and purchase credits. Not sure if there will be caps or timelimits on purchases.

Completionist wrote: »

I don't want to be flying around in a Scooty Puff Jr while everyone else is in a Scooty Puff Sr..

Based on the above and what's been said already by WM / CR etc you should be safe.

Completionist wrote: »

I am so confused.

Sorry can't help with that but I know a few good doctors. :pac:

Kiith · 17-11-2013 11:24pm

I still can't help but think they are charging a crazy amount of money for the ships. I know it's a pledge, and no one is forcing us to buy anything, but $30 (and up to $275) for an in game ship? We'd slate EA or Activision if they did something like that.

Still can't wait to see how it turns out though, and delighted the space sim seems to be on the up again.

The_Valeyard · 18-11-2013 6:45pm

Kiith wrote: »

I still can't help but think they are charging a crazy amount of money for the ships. I know it's a pledge, and no one is forcing us to buy anything, but $30 (and up to $275) for an in game ship? We'd slate EA or Activision if they did something like that.

Still can't wait to see how it turns out though, and delighted the space sim seems to be on the up again.

Up to $275???

You have not seen the Idris so, have you?

Reekwind · 18-11-2013 7:31pm

R0ot wrote: »

Sure people with large wallets will have an advantage at first...

What's the difference between that and pay-to-win?

R0ot · 18-11-2013 8:50pm

Reekwind wrote: »

What's the difference between that and pay-to-win?

pay-to-win
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

- Everything in the game will be achievable for UEC, no premium only ships or anything like that.

EDIT: Largely based on your own opinion of pay 2 win but if you have another one can you site an MMO that doesn't use that model. (not that there aren't any but I'd like a comparison)

Reekwind · 18-11-2013 9:48pm

But, and do correct me if I'm wrong, you can pay real money for ships that give you an in-game advantage? I mean, I don't see how you can pay hundreds of pounds for a ship and not get advantages over peons who don't splash the cash. That's very different to buying a cosmetic hat

I really can't think of another MMO that would allow you to do that without being considered pay-to-win. It was hugely controversial when WOW even considered adding a real money auction house earlier this year

Kiith · 18-11-2013 11:36pm

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Up to $275???

You have not seen the Idris so, have you?

Holy ****...$5000 is the only way to get the Idris? Hah, that's insane.

Obviously not meant for normal pledges though. I'd say i'll pledge $50 or so in the coming weeks, just to get myself a copy of the game.

The_Valeyard · 18-11-2013 11:56pm

Kiith wrote: »

Holy ****...$5000 is the only way to get the Idris? Hah, that's insane.

Obviously not meant for normal pledges though. I'd say i'll pledge $50 or so in the coming weeks, just to get myself a copy of the game.

Indeed, with the sales on this week, just watch the money roll in.

We should all look at forming some boards, irish, guild thinge.

Stev_o · 19-11-2013 12:00am

Have they given any more information on how the game will work? The only news iv heard has been feature creep stuff.

Zillah · 19-11-2013 12:23am

This whole thing is revolting. $27m next stretch goal and they're selling digital items for thousands of dollars? It's disgusting.

The obsession level for this game is also through the roof considering it doesn't even exist yet.

danthefan · 19-11-2013 12:37am

Zillah wrote: »

This whole thing is revolting. $27m next stretch goal and they're selling digital items for thousands of dollars? It's disgusting.

The obsession level for this game is also through the roof considering it doesn't even exist yet.

Why do you care really what anyone else sells or buys with their own money?(obviously this being all perfectly within the law and all that)

I can think of plenty of things that are "disgusting", this is not one of them.

KilOit · 19-11-2013 12:57am

Game is starting to resemble a cult and people are just throwing their money at it, gonna have to call the guy behind it all 'dear leader' in not too long

Kirby · 19-11-2013 1:04am

KilOit wrote: »

Game is starting to resemble a cult and people are just throwing their money at it, gonna have to call the guy behind it all 'dear leader' in not too long

I think it looks like a cool game and im looking forward to it but you have a point. Some people are pouring way too much money into it. its crazy.

Part of me is dying to play this with a rift though. How cool would that be.?

Kiith · 19-11-2013 1:30am

If, and it's a big if, they pull it off as they are describing, it could be the best game ever. An absolutely huge amount of work is required, but it definitely sounds epic.

Kirby wrote: »

Part of me is dying to play this with a rift though. How cool would that be.?

And yeah, having a Rift with this would be insane. Flying about your ship, and actually docking and walking around would be incredibly immersive.

Reekwind · 19-11-2013 9:20am

Kiith wrote: »

If, and it's a big if, they pull it off as they are describing, it could be the best game ever. An absolutely huge amount of work is required, but it definitely sounds epic.

Which is what they said about Battlecruiser 3000AD. The difference was that it wasn't charging obscene money for pre-orders. If this game doesn't live up to expectations then a lot of customers will have wasted a lot of money

Kirby · 19-11-2013 10:13am

While that's true, it's still worth the effort and good for the community even if it turns out to be disappointing.

Games like this don't exist anymore because publishers don't think they are financially viable or worth the risk. 27 million in crowd funding before the damned thing is even in beta laughs at those publishers and their notions of what will or wont work. Perhaps we will see more ambitious projects in the future being greenlit on the back of this instead of samey derivative stuff like Super Realistic Warfare V:Dog edition.

Kiith · 19-11-2013 10:26am

Will it be good for the community if it turns out **** though? $27 million, with no end in sight and it turns out to be a huge disappointment? Is that not the sort of thing that would make people really wary of crowdfunded games?

And again, as someone who loves space sims, i really want it to be everything they say.

Reekwind · 19-11-2013 12:17pm

I think we've got to be careful here. Nobody wants the game to fail and nobody has an issue with the crowd-funding model. The two are not unrelated: if it is a disaster then the biggest losers are $27 million worth of ordinary fans

What we are seeing though is the darker side of the crowd-funding model. I think that there are real issues with providing pre-bonuses that require hundreds or thousands of dollars to obtain. And not just from a pay-to-win perspective. On a higher level, what's the point at which publisher funding is welcome if it spares the fanbase from being fleeced in such a way?

Zillah · 19-11-2013 3:57pm

danthefan wrote: »

Why do you care really what anyone else sells or buys with their own money?(obviously this being all perfectly within the law and all that)

I can think of plenty of things that are "disgusting", this is not one of them.

Like KilOit said, it's like a cult. They're taking advantage of people making terrible life decisions by convincing them to conceptualise virtual property in a game (that doesn't exist yet) as though it had tangible value. It's unhealthy, it's demented, it's like selling heroin to junkies. It's convincing poor people to take short term loans at high interest. It's selling dodgy life assurance to old people. It's having sex with someone that loves you when you don't share those feelings.

They're taking advantage and it's gross.

The_Valeyard · 19-11-2013 8:02pm

Zillah wrote: »

Like KilOit said, it's like a cult. They're taking advantage of people making terrible life decisions by convincing them to conceptualise virtual property in a game (that doesn't exist yet) as though it had tangible value. It's unhealthy, it's demented, it's like selling heroin to junkies. It's convincing poor people to take short term loans at high interest. It's selling dodgy life assurance to old people. It's having sex with someone that loves you when you don't share those feelings.

They're taking advantage and it's gross.

So its Capitalism then

Stev_o · 19-11-2013 8:36pm

Ill be amazed if what they deliver ever lives up to the thought that most people want this game to be.

The_Valeyard · 19-11-2013 9:33pm

Stev_o wrote: »

Ill be amazed if what they deliver ever lives up to the thought that most people want this game to be.

Yes, if it turns into another x-rebirth, internets may explode.

Speaking of which, Steam refuses to give me a refund. Game just wont frakkin work.

Zillah · 19-11-2013 10:34pm

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Speaking of which, Steam refuses to give me a refund. Game just wont frakkin work.

I still haven't gotten a reply to my refund request...

stevenmu · 20-11-2013 4:05pm

I was very excited for this when it was announced, but I'm getting more and more worried about it. With all the ship selling going on I'm starting to wonder if I'll be logging into servers and finding myself at a huge disadvantage to everyone else.

The appeal to me of a game like this is to start off with nothing and build up. But if you start in a crappy tin can and everyone else has giant top-of-the-line battle-cruisers it'll make it impossible to get anywhere and it'll just be a hugely frustrating experience.

Zillah · 20-11-2013 4:21pm

stevenmu wrote: »

I was very excited for this when it was announced, but I'm getting more and more worried about it. With all the ship selling going on I'm starting to wonder if I'll be logging into servers and finding myself at a huge disadvantage to everyone else.

The appeal to me of a game like this is to start off with nothing and build up. But if you start in a crappy tin can and everyone else has giant top-of-the-line battle-cruisers it'll make it impossible to get anywhere and it'll just be a hugely frustrating experience.

The vast majority of people will not have invested anything resembling enough to warrant any of these fancy cruisers. Secondly, most earning potential will likely be PvE or trading etc, I doubt PvP will be a money maker. My guess is that within 6 months the guys who spent $5k will be feeling silly because everyone else has caught up, and will try to emphasise whatever unique "vanity" status their backer-boondoggles will have.

That is of course assuming their terminate this pay-to-win aspect as soon as the funding phase is over.

stevenmu · 20-11-2013 5:52pm

Yeah, hopefully it'll work out like that. It'd be a shame if pay-to-win ruins it.

20-11-2013 5:54pm

a friend of my has spent 365 euro on this. I normally like to see a review first. 365 is just crazy.

Stev_o · 20-11-2013 7:42pm

Mad.

Is it perma death in PVP or is it just respawn some place far away?

For the life of me I can't understand why anyone would think piloting one of the bigger ships would be exciting, reality is you ll be going ever so slowly hoping the AI knows how to operate turrets.

I can also guarantee that people will bitch about low level ships beating up on their 300 quid ship and demanding balancing changes. If EVE has thought us anything it's that someone will find a min/max cheap ship and bring a LOT of them to face someone who has no chance.

The_Valeyard · 20-11-2013 9:12pm

Thinks its perma death, that is why you take out ship insurance with your purchase.

I am a big fan of the larger ships, get a crew, man the turrets, etc

I want my own BSG someday

Kiith · 20-11-2013 11:27pm

I hope it's perma death for ships, but i'd be surprised if it is. It's usually too 'hardcore' for most games, and the amount of bitching that will go on after people lose their shiny paid for cruiser, while hilarious, will be massive.

The_Valeyard · 20-11-2013 11:41pm

Kiith wrote: »

I hope it's perma death for ships, but i'd be surprised if it is. It's usually too 'hardcore' for most games, and the amount of bitching that will go on after people lose their shiny paid for cruiser, while hilarious, will be massive.

If you die, you will loose your ship.
If you have insurance (paid with earned creds) you will get your ships back

Kiith · 20-11-2013 11:54pm

Ah, you shouldn't get the ship back, even if it's insured. The Eve Online way is best. You get blown up, you lose your ship. If it's insured, you still lose your ship, but you get the market value of the ship back.

Stev_o · 21-11-2013 12:01am

That's a pretty poor method imo and really deflates the game as a whole =/

Zillah · 21-11-2013 11:30am

Kiith wrote: »

Ah, you shouldn't get the ship back, even if it's insured. The Eve Online way is best. You get blown up, you lose your ship. If it's insured, you still lose your ship, but you get the market value of the ship back.

I'd suggest you reconsider whether you actually think this is a great way to do it or if it is just the way you're used to. Eve is a notoriously cruel game, and I found one of its major flaws was that it often took a very long time to actually find some real gameplay, i.e.; a fight you'd be willing to engage in. A more forgiving environment makes gameplay much more accessible.

I'd rather be able to get into a fight than camp a gate for an hour and then have to run away when a slightly more powerful gang came through.

Kiith · 21-11-2013 12:05pm

Yeah, i'd definitely still prefer it. I remember being disappointed with Star Trek Online when your ships just automatically respawned. I just think that there should be some proper punishment for getting into a fight with something you're not willing to lose. It adds a real sense of danger to games, which is often lacking.

I do understand why it's used often though.

BizzyC · 21-11-2013 12:23pm

Meh, I spent ~$40 on the game, it gets me a ship and a copy.

If the game doesn't work out then I haven't spent any more than I'd normally spend on a game....
I think it's crazy the amount people are spending on it already, especially if there's perma-death.

If you die and have no insurance, you should respawn with a starter pack.

Gbear · 21-11-2013 5:14pm

Kiith wrote: »

Yeah, i'd definitely still prefer it. I remember being disappointed with Star Trek Online when your ships just automatically respawned. I just think that there should be some proper punishment for getting into a fight with something you're not willing to lose. It adds a real sense of danger to games, which is often lacking.

I do understand why it's used often though.

There's been enough money pumped into the game to also have a death-match style mode with infinite respawns, purely to enjoy the dogfighting.

R0ot · 21-11-2013 9:31pm

BizzyC wrote: »

Meh, I spent ~$40 on the game, it gets me a ship and a copy.

If the game doesn't work out then I haven't spent any more than I'd normally spend on a game....
I think it's crazy the amount people are spending on it already, especially if there's perma-death.

If you die and have no insurance, you should respawn with a starter pack.

You need to read this - https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12879-Death-Of-A-Spaceman

[Rasta] · 21-11-2013 9:42pm

I hope this fails.
They already got so much money and they are actually offering such high prices for in game content.
If it were only for cosmetic purposes then it'd be understandable.
But they even decided to top it off with life time insurance.
It seems to completely defeat the purpose of playing the game.

It's ridiculous how easily people give their money away for random hopes and dreams that are posted on a website.

Guess I'll just be borrowing a copy off the internet in 2 years time to see if the single player is worth a look.

R0ot · 21-11-2013 11:23pm

[Rasta] wrote: »

:words:

How important is lifetime insurance?

Once again, we would like to be absolutely clear that LTI is a convenience but not a game-altering addition. All ships come with insurance and the coverage between LTI and Standard Hull Insurance (SHI) is exactly the same. The only difference is that you have to renew SHI with in game credits once the policy has reached its end (which varies right now between 3 months and a year on the current packages available for sale). With LTI there is no end date on the policy. The cost and frequency of renewing a SHI policy will be on a similar magnitude to renewing car insurance and assuming you complete some missions or trade runs in Star Citizen you should have plenty of in game funds available to cover this cost. In fact, newer players who purchased packages directly instead of going through a grey market service to get LTI are better off, as they have been receiving the various stretch goal rewards given to backers.

Source - https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13377-Anniversary-Sale-Details

BizzyC · 22-11-2013 4:56pm

R0ot wrote: »

You need to read this - https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12879-Death-Of-A-Spaceman

That sounds ok to me...

I think that there should be a bit more weight on losing a character though.
Maybe small things tied in to your fame/noteriety, such as getting better merchant deals if you're a trader or approached with high profile jobs if you're a famous pirate....

Lord Khan · 23-11-2013 12:25am

Yeah, I'd just like to point out that really we are buying pledges and getting the ship for free.

I you want to just buy a ship, then wait.

I haven't really paid much attention to the RSI.com forums for the past year and I tend not to reply either. I know I know I should put my feetback and talk more. However I pledged a large sum of money, a gamble if you will. It is a vice, but I'll live with it

.

a bigger risk a better reward heh.

AAA we are talking 100s of millions before even releasing it. SC has 29.5mil last checked.

Robert ninja · 23-11-2013 8:04am

I really can't see how people are into a game so much as to invest these kind if figures, when it's not even fully made yet. It's kinda gotten me scared of the game now... I feel like there's something about it I'm not understanding here.

I just wanna wait until the game is ready for full release, buy it and play it (and never pay another cent for in-game content). Will I be at some massive disadvantage by doing that?

Lord Khan · 24-11-2013 2:16pm

Simply put: gambling. It's not about always about the money, it's about the rush. The fact that he made the wing commanger and freelancer series, means people already have a "cult" following Chris Roberts. CitizenCon took play last month (it wasn't even a Convention).

It is not just a SP and MP. MP (ok CR doesn't like to call it mmo) but a presistant game, meaning an ongoing offical server running no-stop (excluding patches) in the universe.

McSasquatch · 24-11-2013 2:22pm

Really tempted to get involved in this sooner rather than later, simply because of who is behind it and it's success so far. Really need to curb my spending on pre-releases though.

McSasquatch · 24-11-2013 7:49pm

Found this post over on the RSI forums. Basically a fan has put together a huge PDF guide to everything Star Citizen. Nice acronym for it too. :pac:

The_Valeyard · 24-11-2013 10:04pm

McSasquatch wrote: »

Found this post over on the RSI forums. Basically a fan has put together a huge PDF guide to everything Star Citizen. Nice acronym for it too. :pac:

Saw this, great idea, but you know well that 3/4 will be subject to change, but fair play to him.

Star Citizen (Thinly veiled 'How many Irish backing this?')

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