Masks

Jurgen Klopp · 01-04-2020 3:07pm

The CDC in the US have said they are now reviewing their mask guidance and the entire public may be advised to wear a mask

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/03/31/824560471/should-we-all-be-wearing-masks-in-public-health-experts-revisit-the-question?t=1585749925485

No doubt if the "Americans" so it the window licker deniers here will be scurrying about trying to source or make some

cnocbui · 01-04-2020 3:14pm

stoneill wrote: »

Masks in general society are nor required.
Wear them if you want but your not actually gaining any extra protection because most people aren't putting them on properly anyway.
Anyone who works in an environment where masks, respirators or SCBA is involved will tell you that fit testing is crucial.
I don't think old Doris down the road there did her annual fit test for mask size or her buddy check to ensure it's on correctly.

People been told how to wash their hands properly ad nauseam. Informing people how to don and doff masks is no harder. Many people don't need to be shown and will self educate or work it out for themselves.

DeeperThinker · 01-04-2020 3:27pm

cnocbui wrote: »

People been told how to wash their hands properly ad nauseam. Informing people how to don and doff masks is no harder. Many people don't need to be shown and will self educate or work it out for themselves.

Absolutely. To think that the head of the WHO told the general public that we should not wear masks as it might distract us from washing our hands and taking other precautions is completely ridiculous. Anyone who is that easily distracted is not going to take care anyway. The vast majority of people do take it seriously and would still wash their hands if wearing a mask. It's the most common sense thing in the world to wear a mask right now apart from washing your hands and social distancing.

Wibbs · 01-04-2020 3:29pm

Yes: other

cnocbui wrote: »

Being Airborne means communal spread is likely to be rife and that hand-washing is a sop.

I strongly suspect airborne spread is the lesser route to infection and close quarters contact in shared housing and surface(fomide) spread are the main routes. The same SARS(and other) studies found that it was a multi pronged thing and the more prongs you mitigated the better the outcomes. Hand hygiene and surface cleaning was way up there, after quarantine and isolation, avoiding public transport(taxis in particular it seems) and indoor gatherings and yes community mask wearing.

stoneill wrote: »

Masks in general society are nor required.
Wear them if you want but your not actually gaining any extra protection because most people aren't putting them on properly anyway.
Anyone who works in an environment where masks, respirators or SCBA is involved will tell you that fit testing is crucial.
I don't think old Doris down the road there did her annual fit test for mask size or her buddy check to ensure it's on correctly.

To be fair S there's a big difference between surgical masks and respirators and the like. Even with perfect use no way would surgical masks pass muster in any sort of industrial setting with dodgy stuff in the air. Law suits ahoy.

It's about levels of risk. A properly worn surgical type mask is significantly better for protection against transmission and receiving of pathogens than no mask at all. But even a half arsed wearing will act like a tissue held to the face and reduce risk of transmission from the infected.

riffmongous · 01-04-2020 3:31pm

cnocbui wrote: »

In fairness, there is a distinct lack of studies of any quality, so given the observed pattern and speed of spread, it would be wise to assume the worst. The Italians have had enough of the dog-shit peddled by the WHO and other useless masks don't work morons and it's not airborne crowd, after losing 50 doctors, and are now suiting up to airborn protocols.

Ian Lipkin:

is recovering from having the virus, and said it is really rough, but also said he thinks it has a significantly higher R0 than the 2-3 estimate.

This is an airborne highly infectious contagion. Masks in the community will reduce the rate of spread and number of cases, just on the anecdotal evidence of Asian societies where they are common and their epidemics have been well controlled, unlike the UK, US, France, Iran and Italy, where community mask wearing has not happened at scale.

That's not how science works though, anecdotal evidence isn't enough as there are also other measures being taken in other countries. For example if you look at the Czechs, they also introduced quarantines and closed the public spaces and borders much earlier than most other countries. Whether it's wise to assume the worst though.. yeah that's different when you are in the middle of it alright..as much as is practical and doesn't cause problems elsewhere

Whether it's airborne or not... I don't know, but in the case of the Italians I'd wonder how much is due to a lack of training, lack of sufficient PPE and over working reducing the effectiveness of the PPE, which is what one study found for SARS

Despite infection control measures, breakthrough transmission of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) occurred for many hospital workers in Hong Kong. We conducted a case-control study of 72 hospital workers with SARS and 144 matched controls. Inconsistent use of goggles, gowns, gloves, and caps was associated with a higher risk for SARS infection (unadjusted odds ratio 2.42 to 20.54, p < 0.05). The likelihood of SARS infection was strongly associated with the amount of personal protection equipment perceived to be inadequate, having <2 hours of infection control training, and not understanding infection control procedures. No significant differences existed between the case and control groups in the proportion of workers who performed high-risk procedures, reported minor protection equipment problems, or had social contact with SARS-infected persons. Perceived inadequacy of personal protection equipment supply, infection control training <2 hours, and inconsistent use of personal protection equipment when in contact with SARS patients were significant independent risk factors for SARS infection.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3322933/

juno10353 · 01-04-2020 3:39pm

Yes: to protect myself and others

Do not change your behaviour
To avoid being infected

Assume you are infected
And change behaviour
To avoid transmitting

cnocbui · 01-04-2020 3:45pm

Science doesn't work the way you think it does. The vast majority of papers are never replicated, and when they are, there is a failure to replicate the original results in the 66% of cases.

Science is facing a "reproducibility crisis" where more than two-thirds of researchers have tried and failed to reproduce another scientist's experiments, research suggests.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-39054778

so don't give me that science doesn't work like that nonsense - science doesn't work like it should or how people think it does.

It's basically a house of cards. The Emperor is walking around nude.

riffmongous · 01-04-2020 4:01pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Science doesn't work the way you think it does. The vast majority of papers are never replicated, and when they are, there is a failure to replicate the original results in the 66% of cases.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-39054778

so don't give me that science doesn't work like that nonsense - science doesn't work like it should or how people think it does.
It's basically a house of cards. The Emperor is walking around nude.

I know how science works thanks. I've been through the review and publishing process. I'm assuming now you don't though

BanditLuke · 01-04-2020 4:06pm

Anybody buy any masks recently? Bought a box of 200 back in January for 50 quid just wondering if people are experiencing price gouging or not now.

cnocbui · 01-04-2020 4:10pm

riffmongous wrote: »

I know how science works thanks. I've been through the review and publishing process. I'm assuming now you don't though

Your are welcome to your assumptions, despite having no evidence to base them on.

BrianD3 · 01-04-2020 4:14pm

BanditLuke wrote: »

Anybody buy any masks recently? Bought a box of 200 back in January for 50 quid just wondering if people are experiencing price gouging or not now.

A couple of weeks ago, Sam McCauley Chemists were selling surgical masks for 2 quid each and claiming that they were selling them at cost price. Gouging or not? At around same time, I got 3 x FFP2V respirators for 9 quid in a hardware shop and they were not making any claims about selling them at cost.

Wibbs · 01-04-2020 4:25pm

Yes: other

I gather with some pharmacists anyway the wholesalers were gouging them, and trying to flog off really low quality masks. Some pharmacies were definitely gouging though.

Kivaro · 01-04-2020 7:03pm

Yes: valved

Watching much poorer countries around the world on the news today and they don't seem to be having problems with masks, and indeed supplying them for free to their citizens.
Yet Ireland appears to be struggling to get them.
Our government should be sending masks to each household in the country.

Away With The Fairies · 01-04-2020 7:39pm

Yes: valved

Kivaro wrote: »

Watching much poorer countries around the world on the news today and they don't seem to be having problems with masks, and indeed supplying them for free to their citizens.
Yet Ireland appears to be struggling to get them.
Our government should be sending masks to each household in the country.

Sending masks to every household in the country along with a lesson to use them properly.

Manion · 01-04-2020 8:20pm

Kivaro wrote: »

Watching much poorer countries around the world on the news today and they don't seem to be having problems with masks, and indeed supplying them for free to their citizens.
Yet Ireland appears to be struggling to get them.
Our government should be sending masks to each household in the country.

Out of curiosity why do you think this is not happening?

Sardonicat · 01-04-2020 8:21pm

Wibbs wrote: »

I gather with some pharmacists anyway the wholesalers were gouging them, and trying to flog off really low quality masks. Some pharmacies were definitely gouging though.

€13 for a single use mask at local pharmacist

Wibbs · 01-04-2020 8:42pm

Yes: other

Sardonicat wrote: »

€13 for a single use mask at local pharmacist

Thieving bastards. No other description for them really. My local (Dublin suburb)pharmacy has or had them the last time I was in there a few days ago and they were looking 3 quid each and were apologising to customers about it(I didn't buy any, I have a few from way back before this outbreak). One of the women behind the counter did say she'd heard some Dublin city centre pharmacies were looking a tenner each for the same masks.

Gynoid · 01-04-2020 8:44pm

Sardonicat wrote: »

€13 for a single use mask at local pharmacist

!!!!
And worse still one cannot even gasp at their impertinence for to do so is too dangerous.

Backstards

Earlier it was posted that hoover bag material makes a good liner for home made masks . Just reposting that because it is useful info.

fr336 · 01-04-2020 8:55pm

Yes: surgical

Probably going to buy two 3m masks on eBay - are they easy to clean?

Wibbs · 01-04-2020 9:18pm

Yes: other

fr336 wrote: »

Probably going to buy two 3m masks on eBay - are they easy to clean?

Are they ones like this F?

3m-6000-series-half-mask-paint-spray-pesticide-respirator-641.jpg

If so yea pretty straightforward to clean, but be aware, as usual a lot of the ones on ebay are fakes, from you guessed it, the country that keeps on giving; China. The fakes will take the real deal filters I believe so..

Seanergy · 01-04-2020 9:32pm

Yes: valved

I have afew different mask and yes I wear them so that I decrease my chances of contracting and transmitting COVID19.

We masked up at work pre lockdown as a duty to care.

Wearing a mask just like wearing gloves doesn't make one invincible to COVID19, doning and doffing procedures need to be understood and strictly adhered to.

fr336 · 01-04-2020 9:41pm

Yes: surgical

Wibbs wrote: »

Are they ones like this F?

If so yea pretty straightforward to clean, but be aware, as usual a lot of the ones on ebay are fakes, from you guessed it, the country that keeps on giving; China. The fakes will take the real deal filters I believe so..

Nah more this kind of thing https://m.ebay.ie/itm/313043771497

plodder · 01-04-2020 9:41pm

Asia may have been right about coronavirus and face masks, and the rest of the world is coming around

Jurgen Klopp · 01-04-2020 10:08pm

The WHO is now reviewing it's stance on the general public wearing face masks after studying Hong Kong

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/01/all-uk-hospital-staff-and-patients-should-wear-masks-says-doctors-group

Now look at this little beauty from the HSE, it's no wonder so many of our healthcare workers are getting it, I am so fcuking angry right now, they are obviously putting our healthcare workers at risk because they won't admit they have a shortage

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/no-evidence-to-support-wearing-of-surgical-masks-by-healthcare-workers-1.4216207?mode=amp

khalessi · 01-04-2020 10:17pm

Yes: surgical

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

The WHO is now reviewing it's stance on the general public wearing face masks after studying Hong Kong

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/01/all-uk-hospital-staff-and-patients-should-wear-masks-says-doctors-group

Now look at this little beauty from the HSE, it's no wonder so many of our healthcare workers are getting it, I am so fcuking angry right now, they are obviously putting our healthcare workers at risk because they won't admit they have a shortage

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/no-evidence-to-support-wearing-of-surgical-masks-by-healthcare-workers-1.4216207?mode=amp

That is downright irresponsible
I am shocked and sickened they would come out with that

GreeBo · 01-04-2020 10:23pm

Yes: other

DeeperThinker wrote: »

Absolutely. To think that the head of the WHO told the general public that we should not wear masks as it might distract us from washing our hands and taking other precautions is completely ridiculous. Anyone who is that easily distracted is not going to take care anyway. The vast majority of people do take it seriously and would still wash their hands if wearing a mask. It's the most common sense thing in the world to wear a mask right now apart from washing your hands and social distancing.

That's not what they mean by distracted.
They really mean that people start to ignore the basic hand hygiene because they consciously or otherwise feel protected by the mask/gloves.

It's similar to people taking more risks when skateboarding with pads and a helmet on. Just compare NFL to rugby for another example.

Wibbs · 01-04-2020 10:29pm

Yes: other

fr336 wrote: »

Nah more this kind of thing https://m.ebay.ie/itm/313043771497

Ahn gotcha F. Just keep them dry and rotate them every other day kinda thing. Be grand I reckon.

gozunda · 01-04-2020 10:36pm

Yes: surgical

GreeBo wrote: »

That's not what they mean by distracted.
They really mean that people start to ignore the basic hand hygiene because they consciously or otherwise feel protected by the mask/gloves.

It's similar to people taking more risks when skateboarding with pads and a helmet on. Just compare NFL to rugby for another example.

Disagree. You may as well attempt to claim that people wont bother putting on their trousers because they consciously or otherwise feel they are already dressed by putting on a shirt / jumper...

The lenghts that some have gone to to ridicule / undermine mask wearing is truely beond all logic and reason.

With regards to the potential of infection of yourself and others

Hand washing is beneficial. Doing so properly is even more important.

Wearing a mask is also beneficial. Doing so properly is even more important.

It remains the two go hand in hand. Much like wearing both a pair of trousers and a shirt / jumper.

If there really are cretins out there who cant grasp this very basic concept. God help us.

Wibbs · 01-04-2020 10:42pm

Yes: other

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

The WHO is now reviewing it's stance on the general public wearing face masks after studying Hong Kong

Let's face it J, the WHO have proven themselves to be reactive, on the long finger, politically subservient, underfunded, wishy washy and ineffectual for the task required. I'd take their pronouncements with a large pinch of salt.

Now look at this little beauty from the HSE, it's no wonder so many of our healthcare workers are getting it, I am so fcuking angry right now, they are obviously putting our healthcare workers at risk because they won't admit they have a shortage

Look J, the hospital staff actually helping patients are good, bloody good, better than most and acknowledged as so worldwide. However the majority of the "management" behind than and I use that term advisedly are not to put a fine point on it, some of the worst examples of Oirish Civil service ineffectual bureaucratic **** serving out their time. I've dealt with all of the above in the past, over an extended period, both personally and professionally. So this does not come as a great shock to me. Sad to say it.

Wibbs · 01-04-2020 10:49pm

Yes: other

Seanergy wrote: »

I have afew different mask and yes I wear them so that I decrease my chances of contracting and transmitting COVID19.

We masked up at work pre lockdown as a duty to care.

Wearing a mask just like wearing gloves doesn't make one invincible to COVID19, doning and doffing procedures need to be understood and strictly adhered to.

When I look at your pic S?

I see two lads going: Covid-19? Hold my beer. #extendmiddlefinger

fr336 · 01-04-2020 10:51pm

Yes: surgical

Wibbs wrote: »

Ahn gotcha F. Just keep them dry and rotate them every other day kinda thing. Be grand I reckon.

Thanks Wibbs, and thanks for all your posts you are one of the stand out posters in here it is much appreciated by me and I'm sure others! I really don't have the head to do much research at the moment (even in this emergency) so just went ahead and paid £25 for each of them. There may be better masks, I may be getting robbed, but hell I've spent £25 on worse before this. It'll give me some reassurance if nothing else - will be wearing them as soon as they come.

Wibbs · 01-04-2020 10:56pm

Yes: other

Ah jaysus F, thanks

. Yeah it's a pain in the sit down area to pay more, but feck it, like you so rightfully say we've all spent that and more, sometimes way more on useless tat. *I look around me and consider mental health services might be required*

EDIT Oh and reassurance is strong medicine in of itself F. I've used it myself. Shit, the day when we find out how the power of placebo actually works, a load of illnesses will be given their marching orders.

Jurgen Klopp · 01-04-2020 11:04pm

khalessi wrote: »

That is downright irresponsible
I am shocked and sickened they would come out with that

I was a HCA and got an email for temp 3 months position in my regional hospital as my CV was on file. Wasn't doing it as my and my mam who lives with me has asthma

It was bad they hadn't enough PPE for staff day 1 but after seeing that even if I was living alone and in perfect health they can fcuk right off. That shows they are more concerned about maintaining the HSE and governments image rather than staff and patients health

The first email said if you didn't respond they'd take it as you weren't interested, so I didn't reply, but yet I got a 2nd email today saying an interview was arranged and basically saying if I didn't interview for the temp position you wouldn't be allowed apply for a position in the hospital for 6 months. Now that struck me as very odd, almost a panicky blackmail attempt to get HCAs in.

I was talking to a nurse I know who's in ICU there and said while there is some it's nothing the hospital can't handle

I'm wondering if a lot of staff are packing it in not just due to covid but more because staff aren't being given adequate protection

riffmongous · 01-04-2020 11:57pm

gozunda wrote: »

Disagree. You may as well attempt to claim that people wont bother putting on their trousers because they consciously or otherwise feel they are already dressed by putting on a shirt / jumper...

The lenghts that some have gone to to ridicule / undermine mask wearing is truely beond all logic and reason.

With regards to the potential of infection of yourself and others

Hand washing is beneficial. Doing so properly is even more important.

Wearing a mask is also beneficial. Doing so properly is even more important.

It remains the two go hand in hand. Much like wearing both a pair of trousers and a shirt / jumper.

If there really are cretins out there who cant grasp this very basic concept. God help us.

We've always been aware that hand washing is beneficial though and yet I reckon everyone knows someone who washs their hands in spots, hell even the vast majority of people don't (or at least before this didn't) wash their hands correctly.. now maybe people will take it more seriously in the current crisis.. yeah I think most will but there's still plenty out there at the moment not adhering even to the basic distancing guidelines, not self isolating etc

Anything4883 · 02-04-2020 8:13am

https://youtu.be/gAk7aX5hksU

Wibbs · 02-04-2020 8:33am

Yes: other

khalessi wrote: »

That is downright irresponsible
I am shocked and sickened they would come out with that

The more I read the HSE BS advice to their own health workers never mind the wider public the more irritated to the point of anger at the sheer bloody stupidity of some of the so called qualified individuals spouting it.

Sadly the WHO are to be largely ignored at this stage. They're utterly and dangerously out of their depth and unfit for purpose with a long list of fcuk ups from the very start of this crisis. They've been running around like headless chickens. When this finally dies down they need to be examined closely and completely overhauled and a new better agency must be put in place.

I mean just read this and sift through their official sounding bullshit and bullshit it clearly is.

Even if the hypothesis that transmission from truly asymptomatic healthcare workers in the healthcare setting is significant is accepted, there is no evidence that the universal use of surgical masks is effective in reducing this beyond what is achieved by standard precautions (hand hygiene, respiratory hygiene and cough etiquette and environmental cleaning) and minimising interpersonal interaction.”

How does one practice "respiratory hygiene", breathe dettol? "Cough etiquette". How do you do that then you damned fools? Hold a tissue to your face when you cough? Or you know have a much less permeable "tissue" on your face all the bloody time when outside. These muppets have been saying you can cough into the crook of your elbow if you didn't have a tissue, but masks are useless? In short WHO, please FO.

El_Duderino 09 · 02-04-2020 8:46am

I've no plan to use them. I'm only going out to get food these days. So, if I get it, I get it. No point worrying about it. I'm not in any of the risk groups so I'm not that worried about actually getting the disease. I sounds like for most people it's just painful for a week and then you're immune so you can stop worrying about.

I gather that the masks are really only useful to those who are in contact with people who have it. So I'll just leave the masks for the people who actually need them. If I was in a high risk group then I might like to have one for the placebo effect.

Wibbs · 02-04-2020 9:09am

Yes: other

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I've no plan to use them. I'm only going out to get food these days. So, if I get it, I get it. No point worrying about it. I'm not in any of the risk groups so I'm not that worried about actually getting the disease.

And you're not concerned that you can pass it on to someone else, someone who is in a risk group? It's not all about you you know.

ShyMets · 02-04-2020 9:16am

People should be wearing masks in public or at the very least should cover they're mouth and nose with a scarf.

However the reality is that unless this becomes a government directive people wont do it.

El_Duderino 09 · 02-04-2020 9:23am

Wibbs wrote: »

And you're not concerned that you can pass it on to someone else, someone who is in a risk group? It's not all about you you know.

Oh it's not all about me? And here was me thinking you were all self isolating just for me.

Well, I'm going out about once a week or maybe twice in the last 10 days, for food. So no. I don't see picking it up as a big risk or passing it on big risk either TBH. I'll just leave the masks for the people who really need them. Are you masking up every time you leave the house?

Jurgen Klopp · 02-04-2020 9:26am

You can't enter a shop at all in Austria now if you aren't wearing one

El_Duderino 09 · 02-04-2020 9:28am

ShyMets wrote: »

People should be wearing masks in public or at the very least should cover they're mouth and nose with a scarf.

However the reality is that unless this becomes a government directive people wont do it.

I certainly won't do it unless were directed to do so. And they won't direct us to do so unless there are enough masks for all those who need them in the health and emergency services, then there will need to be enough for everyone else too.

I don't even know where to get one. but I could probably make one handy enough if I can get the appropriate material.

ShyMets · 02-04-2020 9:31am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I certainly won't do it unless were directed to do so. And they won't direct us to do so unless there are enough masks for all those who need them in the health and emergency services, then there will need to be enough for everyone else too.

I don't even know where to get one. but I could probably make one handy enough if I can get the appropriate material.

Its a good point. The government would need to deliver masks to every house in the country of have local collection points set up. Masks rationed to x amount per household. And only if we had more then enough stock for health care workers

Otherwise we'd just have panic buying

Gentleman Off The Pitch · 02-04-2020 9:32am

Yes: to protect myself and others

Sorry if this is covered already, but say you had a limited number of FFP3 masks and wanted to re-use them if only worn for a few minutes, is putting the mask somewhere secure for two weeks before re-using an option?

GreeBo · 02-04-2020 9:33am

Yes: other

gozunda wrote: »

Disagree. You may as well attempt to claim that people wont bother putting on their trousers because they consciously or otherwise feel they are already dressed by putting on a shirt / jumper...

The lenghts that some have gone to to ridicule / undermine mask wearing is truely beond all logic and reason.

With regards to the potential of infection of yourself and others

Hand washing is beneficial. Doing so properly is even more important.

Wearing a mask is also beneficial. Doing so properly is even more important.

It remains the two go hand in hand. Much like wearing both a pair of trousers and a shirt / jumper.

If there really are cretins out there who cant grasp this very basic concept. God help us.

Ah here. There are studies that show people are more risk embracing when they are wearing protective equipment than otherwise. Comparing that to not wearing trousers is just silly.

These people aren't cretins, they are normal people who are not used to going about their daily business wearing PPE.
Washing your hands is a perfectly normal thing to do, we have been doing it all our lives so asking people to do something normal more frequently isnt a big leap, wearing PPE isn't normal for 99% of the world. You are being silly equating them to jumpers and trousers is frankly nonsense.

Ever use a hedge trimmer and feel like Arnie in Predator? Thats the subconscious you are demanding that people fight against.

GreeBo · 02-04-2020 9:37am

Yes: other

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Oh it's not all about me? And here was me thinking you were all self isolating just for me.

Well, I'm going out about once a week or maybe twice in the last 10 days, for food. So no. I don't see picking it up as a big risk or passing it on big risk either TBH. I'll just leave the masks for the people who really need them. Are you masking up every time you leave the house?

But what if all the other people in the shop those 2 times are also taking the same approach that you are? I'm assuming that while in the shop you were touching things and, like any normal person, you then touched your face or poked your eye or just had a good old pick of your nose.

Wibbs · 02-04-2020 9:48am

Yes: other

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Are you masking up every time you leave the house?

To go shopping? I am. Have been for the last few weeks. Partially for my protection but more about protecting others. I could have it and be asymptomatic and wearing a mask massively reduces the risk of passing it on to others. Not just directly by person to person either. By wearing a mask you also reduce the risks of contaminating surfaces with expelled droplets, surfaces someone coming behind me who is vulnerable could touch.

Disease transmission basically boils down to links in a chain. Hand washing disrupts a link, social distancing disrupts another, as does sterilising shared public surfaces and masks disrupts yet another.

Even the HSE - we don't have enough for health workers due to our being slow off the mark so we'll tell the public they're useless for them - states that they are to be worn by the symptomatic because they do reduce the risk of transmission. If everyone wore a mask when outside community transmission would fall. This has already been seen in the Czech Republic where their R0 figures have fallen consistently.

And we are still in the early stages of how dangerous this is and how it affects the wider population. The numbers simply aren't in yet to make that call. The death percentage could be 0.5 if there are large pools of very mild cases that resolve out there, or it could be well above 2% if there aren't. In places like Italy and Spain it seems very much higher. So far anyway it does seem to be similar to the 1918 flu pandemic and that ended up killing tens of millions of people. That got people's attention because it was killing young adults disproportionally, this virus is targeting an older demographic. Would you be so blase if it was your demographic it was killing? I doubt it, so why be so blase about risking the lives of those it does?

And it's only killing more of one demographic for now. It could go either way as the second wave comes in. In 1918 it was the second wave that really did the damage as it mutated into something much more vicious. Hopefully not as coronaviruses mutate more slowly than influenza viruses(though they're much harder to make a vaccine for).

Living Off The Splash · 02-04-2020 9:49am

Yes: homemade

Sardonicat wrote: »

€13 for a single use mask at local pharmacist

Back in February I picked up P3 standard masks for about €4.50. Surgical type masks were available online for about €20/€30, box of 50. I don't know what the quality was like though.

So selling a mask for €13 is really taking the piss.

Wibbs · 02-04-2020 9:51am

Yes: other

ShyMets wrote: »

Its a good point. The government would need to deliver masks to every house in the country of have local collection points set up. Masks rationed to x amount per household. And only if we had more then enough stock for health care workers

Otherwise we'd just have panic buying

I agree with you and ED on that. I reckon a grassroots drive to make up DIY masks is the way forward until supplies do free up. Any tight weave material would do it. For extra filtration cut up a vacuum cleaner bag and fit a sheet of that between the layers. HEPA filter material for extractor fans another source.

s982102 · 02-04-2020 9:52am

Yes: to protect others

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Read the WHO & HSE guidelines on masks. Wearing one to the shops is a waste of a mask and money. They have no proven benefits unless you have the Virus or are nursing someone who has the virus.

Go sit outside a hospital and watch. You won't see doctors & nurses wearing masks coming out of work & on their journey home. They have been trained & they know masks are of no use in general use. They are a comfort thing for adults. Like a comfort blanket for a child. If you need an adults version of a blankey & don't mind looking stupid then go ahead and but them. Like surgical gloves they need to be replaced every 15 to 30 minutes so you will need to invest in a few dozen at a time

That is exactly why there is such high infected rate in doctors and nurses as they are not protected properly. I think these people should be protected with more serious PPE to further reduce the chance of being infected. As for HSE's recommendation, they said it because there are not enough masks.

Masks

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