Wage Subsidy Scheme Issues

Renjit · 09-07-2020 3:18pm

Wage subsidy scheme likely to be extended.

SAMTALK · 09-07-2020 3:25pm

Seve OB wrote: »

Some people will have. Others won’t have. It’s different for everyone.
You can ring the revenue and request to go back on cumulative

Sorry Seve. What would that mean tax wise for me

Seve OB · 09-07-2020 6:21pm

SAMTALK wrote: »

Sorry Seve. What would that mean tax wise for me

It means everyone’s tax is different

shatners bassoon · 10-07-2020 8:52am

Am I correct in saying that it's impossible for an employee to receive their full gross salary (assuming their hours haven't been reduced) if the employer is availing of the subsidy and that if the same net pay is being received, it's as a result of reduced tax being paid in real time / PAYE refunds?

blackwhite · 10-07-2020 9:19am

shatners bassoon wrote: »

Am I correct in saying that it's impossible for an employee to receive their full gross salary (assuming their hours haven't been reduced) if the employer is availing of the subsidy and that if the same net pay is being received, it's as a result of reduced tax being paid in real time / PAYE refunds?

Almost.

There's a few scenarios (for the lowest paid employees only really) where their ARNWP is less than €350, then they can be paid a total of €350 per week, which could end up being equal to, or in some very rare cases, higher than their normal gross.

tina1040 · 10-07-2020 10:21am

Question about annual leave while on TWSS.

Employees on TWSS since it started.70%/85% only unless full time hours worked which was only in the last couple of weeks.
Business closed April and May so by my understanding annual leave 20 days would be reduced to about 16.5 do 2020.

According to the 1365 hours rule, it looks like full time employees will be entitled to 20 days as they will have worked over 1365 by the end of 2020. Haw can that be correct? It wouldn't make sense that an employee say on unpaid leave for 2 months would still have 20 days because they worked over 1365 in the year.

maj206 · 10-07-2020 5:05pm

so my work place is getting pretty much back to normal albeit with a lot of new protocols in place etc .
i have been getting the wage subsidy since march as i was a full time (5 days ) member of staff and i did work one day a week during lockdown when business was very quiet but never got paid anything only the 350 subsidy. i am now back 3 full days (not getting wage topped up) and 2 of my part time colleagues who were getting x and o's payment have been asked to switch to the wage subsidy. they are now getting more hours/days than me? i know this is because i am paid more than them daily and they are cutting my hours and giving them more! what are peoples opinions/advice

booooonzo · 11-07-2020 12:52am

on scheme since April
all staff full time hours from home
20% paycut company wide
Company said they will top up the scheme payments to our new lower net.

Checked my payslips and about 1/4 of my top-up from the company is being paid from my PAYE refund. This doesn't seem right to me, is it the norm?

Company has also re-hired 3 or 4 staff since April and have given pay rises to other departments (these were agreed in Jan based of certain goals but our departments reviews were delayed and then cancelled due to covid)

They are saying they will pay any tax we owe but
1. how can an employee know this exact amount if it will be taken as credits via revenue?
2. Will the amount the company give us to pay our tax bill also be taxable? if so by how much?
3. What if an employee decides to leave before the year end?

Thanks

Seve OB · 11-07-2020 5:29pm

booooonzo wrote: »

on scheme since April
all staff full time hours from home
20% paycut company wide
Company said they will top up the scheme payments to our new lower net.

Checked my payslips and about 1/4 of my top-up from the company is being paid from my PAYE refund. This doesn't seem right to me, is it the norm?

Company has also re-hired 3 or 4 staff since April and have given pay rises to other departments (these were agreed in Jan based of certain goals but our departments reviews were delayed and then cancelled due to covid)

They are saying they will pay any tax we owe but
1. how can an employee know this exact amount if it will be taken as credits via revenue?
2. Will the amount the company give us to pay our tax bill also be taxable? if so by how much?
3. What if an employee decides to leave before the year end?

Thanks

Firstly PAYE refund does not form part of any employer top up. It has nothing to do with your employer.

To answer your questions.
1. Easiest thing, ask revenue if you are unsure as to how to calculate it. Alternatively your employer might be able to calculate it for you.
2.everything you get paid from your employer is taxable.
3. Tax will be collected by the revenue by reducing your credits for next year (I think). If your existing employer has said they will pay it for you, make sure you get that payment before you leave.

PickYourName · 11-07-2020 8:48pm

booooonzo wrote: »

Checked my payslips and about 1/4 of my top-up from the company is being paid from my PAYE refund. This doesn't seem right to me, is it the norm?

Absolutely not. PAYE refund is nothing to do with your employer.

booooonzo wrote: »

They are saying they will pay any tax we owe but

That's off the wall. Company can certainly pay you an additional amount to cover it, but that in itself would be taxable.

To me, it sounds like your employer is playing fast and loose with tax obligations.

youandme13 · 13-07-2020 10:50pm

So my payroll had said my average net earnings for Jan and feb are 360 euro per week (yet I earned 11.80 per hr 40 hrs a week, I was out sick for 1 week yet didn't get paid for sick leave so was down money then, would this have brought it down in general for the average? I'm being paid 360 euro per week now even though I'm back working 40 hours so I'm getting 9.15 per hour? Surely this cant be right when minimum wage is 10.10? Need advice before I go back to them so I have all info thanks

PickYourName · 14-07-2020 7:01am

youandme13 wrote: »

So my payroll had said my average net earnings for Jan and feb are 360 euro per week (yet I earned 11.80 per hr 40 hrs a week, I was out sick for 1 week yet didn't get paid for sick leave so was down money then, would this have brought it down in general for the average? I'm being paid 360 euro per week now even though I'm back working 40 hours so I'm getting 9.15 per hour? Surely this cant be right when minimum wage is 10.10? Need advice before I go back to them so I have all info thanks

The average is worked out (by Revenue) as averaged over the weeks you were actually paid. If you worked all weeks up until the end of February, it would be averaged over 9 weeks; if you missed one it would be over 8 weeks. Are you sure the €360 figure refers to your average, as this seems too low, even if the number of weeks used for the calculation was wrong? Note that the subsidy (for some) is paid at a rate of 70% of the average, so maybe that is what you are referring to?

What does your current payslip show? It should break down the amount paid from the subsidy plus any top-up amount.

It is illegal to pay anyone less than the minimum wage.

booooonzo · 14-07-2020 4:52pm

Seve OB wrote: »

Firstly PAYE refund does not form part of any employer top up. It has nothing to do with your employer.

To answer your questions.
1. Easiest thing, ask revenue if you are unsure as to how to calculate it. Alternatively your employer might be able to calculate it for you.
2.everything you get paid from your employer is taxable.
3. Tax will be collected by the revenue by reducing your credits for next year (I think). If your existing employer has said they will pay it for you, make sure you get that payment before you leave.

Chatted my employer and they reckon the PAYE minus figure is not a refund as such but an "adjustment" because of the cumulative nature of the PAYE paid.
They say giving us that refund for May and June would put us over the net pay average and would of meant they couldn't avail of the scheme then.

This is not fully true as we received a 20% pay cut in May.

but they argued it would be too messy to work out who was over/under the net pay with the paye refund.

So it seems to me they made the decision to use the PAYE minus figure to met our net pay and tell us they will "take care of our tax liability" in December or whenever its due

They say if that means they will have to gross up the figure to meet the payment they will.

Still haven't managed to get this in writing.

Pistachio19 · 14-07-2020 5:31pm

booooonzo wrote: »

Chatted my employer and they reckon the PAYE minus figure is not a refund as such but an "adjustment" because of the cumulative nature of the PAYE paid.
They say giving us that refund for May and June would put us over the net pay average and would of meant they couldn't avail of the scheme then.

This is not fully true as we received a 20% pay cut in May.

but they argued it would be too messy to work out who was over/under the net pay with the paye refund.

So it seems to me they made the decision to use the PAYE minus figure to met our net pay and tell us they will "take care of our tax liability" in December or whenever its due

They say if that means they will have to gross up the figure to meet the payment they will.

Still haven't managed to get this in writing.

They are wrong. The refund of tax is not seen as part of your pay. It's a refund of your own tax so they cannot effectively keep it from you. One of our employees ended up with more per month than he had in Jan/Feb due to tax refunds. The other only ended up paying tax in the 3rd month of the scheme due to his refunds. From this month everyone should be on a week/month 1 basis as per revenue rules so this will put a stop to the refunds from revenue.

PickYourName · 14-07-2020 5:45pm

booooonzo wrote: »

They say giving us that refund for May and June would put us over the net pay average and would of meant they couldn't avail of the scheme then.

This is not fully true as we received a 20% pay cut in May.

It's not true at all, never mind "not fully true"! Tax refunds are nothing to do with your empployer and should not be used in calculating pay.

booooonzo wrote: »

but they argued it would be too messy to work out who was over/under the net pay with the paye refund.

Of course it's too messy! There's a good chance everyone has different refunds due to their circumstances. See previous comment: they should not be using this to calculate anything - being too messy is just another reason not to use it.

booooonzo wrote: »

So it seems to me they made the decision to use the PAYE minus figure to met our net pay and tell us they will "take care of our tax liability" in December or whenever its due

They say if that means they will have to gross up the figure to meet the payment they will.

This is likely to be a nightmare to sort out - more for them than for you. They seem to have started down a path of trying to fix people's net pay, which is a very bad idea.

booooonzo wrote: »

Still haven't managed to get this in writing.

I'd be amazed if you do.

Seve OB · 14-07-2020 6:29pm

booooonzo wrote: »

Chatted my employer and they reckon the PAYE minus figure is not a refund as such but an "adjustment" because of the cumulative nature of the PAYE paid.
They say giving us that refund for May and June would put us over the net pay average and would of meant they couldn't avail of the scheme then.

This is not fully true as we received a 20% pay cut in May.

but they argued it would be too messy to work out who was over/under the net pay with the paye refund.

So it seems to me they made the decision to use the PAYE minus figure to met our net pay and tell us they will "take care of our tax liability" in December or whenever its due

They say if that means they will have to gross up the figure to meet the payment they will.

Still haven't managed to get this in writing.

To put is simple.
They either haven’t a clue what they are doing
Or are absolute chancers.

Or possibly didn’t really understand, then figured out their mistake and are trying to bluff.

In simple terms, I would just go back to them, let them know politely that the paye refund has no effect on any net pay, as the only net pay which counts towards any calculations was the average of the first 9 weeks of the year.

I’d also Ask them to please fix their mistake however necessary.

SAMTALK · 15-07-2020 9:28am

Seve OB wrote: »

To put is simple.
They either haven’t a clue what they are doing
Or are absolute chancers.

Or possibly didn’t really understand, then figured out their mistake and are trying to bluff.

In simple terms, I would just go back to them, let them know politely that the paye refund has no effect on any net pay, as the only net pay which counts towards any calculations was the average of the first 9 weeks of the year.

I’d also Ask them to please fix their mistake however necessary.

We had much the same issue. Got tax refund and it brought pay up to near usual net pay. Brought this to their attention and they said sure you're nett is the same as usual !!

Stood our ground with them and said we work on gross pay as per agreement of employment. Eventually the agreed to give us the balance after the scheme finished for us.

Abusing the system to avail of the scheme which is totally unfair

snowgal · 15-07-2020 4:39pm

I have a strange one that I cant seem to find an answer on. Or maybe its just straight forward enough! Colleague of mine is working with us on 25 hours per week at the min. She is getting twss since March. Shes just told me shes accepted another part time job that will work out about 8 hours per week (and will keep her job here too), Does anyone see an issue with this in regard to TWSS or is it just a different job, no change from our side. She hasnt told our company officially she has got this new job and whether thats a contract issue Im not sure.....

Seve OB · 15-07-2020 9:14pm

snowgal wrote: »

I have a strange one that I cant seem to find an answer on. Or maybe its just straight forward enough! Colleague of mine is working with us on 25 hours per week at the min. She is getting twss since March. Shes just told me shes accepted another part time job that will work out about 8 hours per week (and will keep her job here too), Does anyone see an issue with this in regard to TWSS or is it just a different job, no change from our side. She hasnt told our company officially she has got this new job and whether thats a contract issue Im not sure.....

Had something similar.
They got paid a wage in the other job. They wouldn’t qualify there for the twss anyway.
So no impact on us or you, just keep them on the twss.

collsoft · 15-07-2020 11:54pm

No harm in downloading your TWSS CSV file every week before you run the wages anyway.

If the employee does qualify for a subsidy in the other employment then it would reduce the subsidy available in your current part time employment.

We don't have any information just now, but the indications are that one of the things being looked at in the "July Stimulus" due to be announced next week is around newly hired employees who did not work with you in Jan/Feb.

If this does happen then it might be that the employee might qualify for a subsidy in the second employment even though they didnt work there in Feb.

So I would be covering myself and download the TWSS CSV file before every pay run just in case!

Seve OB wrote: »

Had something similar.
They got paid a wage in the other job. They wouldn’t qualify there for the twss anyway.
So no impact on us or you, just keep them on the twss.

Dec2020 · 16-07-2020 7:13pm

As an employer availing of the wage subsidy scheme can I take some of my employees off the TWSS and keep some employees on the TWSS or do they all have to come off it at the same time?

Tow · 16-07-2020 7:27pm

Dec2020 wrote: »

As an employer availing of the wage subsidy scheme can I take some of my employees off the TWSS and keep some employees on the TWSS or do they all have to come off it at the same time?

Yes. Revenue look at the PRSI Class to trigger the TWSS payment at employee level.

blackwhite · 16-07-2020 9:18pm

Dec2020 wrote: »

As an employer availing of the wage subsidy scheme can I take some of my employees off the TWSS and keep some employees on the TWSS or do they all have to come off it at the same time?

Under the TWSS rules you can elect to put anyone on, or take anyone off, the scheme without any obligation as to how you treat other employees.

However - all other employment law regarding discrimination, bullying, etc still stands, so you need to be careful how it’s done or you could end up on the wrong end of a WRC complaint.

igCorcaigh · 17-07-2020 9:51pm

Quick question please:

My partner has returned to work under the subsidy scheme and is receiving €350.01 pw with no further top up from the employer.

Is this legit? Is there any obligation on the employer to pay wages to the employee?

Kewreeuss · 17-07-2020 10:14pm

Legit but hard. Company would want to be in a bad way.
Im hoping they rejig the scheme, maybe pay employer a lump sum per employee and let employee work a few more hours, not limited by net pay.
I'm thinking of tourist and hospitality hourly paid staff who had low hours in Jan/Feb and who now have possibility of lots more and can't get them because they're stuck on low net pay.
Also can't get my head around people pointing out that it is illegal to pay below minimum wage. if you are working 30 hours every week at minimum wage, half your colleagues are sent home and you are one of those kept on at work, your employer enters the scheme, you continue to work your 30 hours and you get your net pay, how is your employer supposed to be able to give you your gross?
He can increase your top up, reduce the subsidy but the net stays the same.
Is the only way to work less hours?

kennethsmyth · 17-07-2020 10:32pm

Kewreeuss wrote: »

Legit but hard. Company would want to be in a bad way.
Im hoping they rejig the scheme, maybe pay employer a lump sum per employee and let employee work a few more hours, not limited by net pay.
I'm thinking of tourist and hospitality hourly paid staff who had low hours in Jan/Feb and who now have possibility of lots more and can't get them because they're stuck on low net pay.
Also can't get my head around people pointing out that it is illegal to pay below minimum wage. if you are working 30 hours every week at minimum wage, half your colleagues are sent home and you are one of those kept on at work, your employer enters the scheme, you continue to work your 30 hours and you get your net pay, how is your employer supposed to be able to give you your gross?
He can increase your top up, reduce the subsidy but the net stays the same.
Is the only way to work less hours?

Not quite correct - if the 350.01 equals less than 10.10 per hour then it is illegal - end of.

An employer can only reduce hours if its in your contract or if put on short time. Employer cannot unilaterally change your salary as per your contract.

The twss scheme is between revenue and employer - not the employee, other than is the employee eligible to be used by employer in scheme.

Yes if the employer reduces hours they could pay the employee more. Eg employee now works 4 days but is paid for 5 to allow claim for employer for twos.

The scheme essentially encourages employers to not pay contracted pay so that they can claim twss. The scheme was very badly setup, it should of been fixed when they had the chance early on when they changed the scheme from the original 410 aspect.
Revenue always dealt in gross figures and then taxable figures - why on earth they used net figures is beyond me - its incredibly stupid and unfair to individuals as two people with same gross figures could essentially get different net amounts due to how their tax credits or payments to pension where on their payslip. BUT the actual "net" figure of twss is not "net" its gross and yet to be taxed.

mr_edge_to_you · 17-07-2020 10:50pm

Anyone know what the story is with regard to availing of the TWSS but having your hours cut to a 4 day or 3 day week? Is the scheme still an option, does it restrict people from claiming social welfare (can't be receiving two forms of benefit etc).

Thanks folks.

kennethsmyth · 17-07-2020 10:56pm

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

Anyone know what the story is with regard to availing of the TWSS but having your hours cut to a 4 day or 3 day week? Is the scheme still an option, does it restrict people from claiming social welfare (can't be receiving two forms of benefit etc).

Thanks folks.

Dont know if it restricts claiming social, however it could be advantageous (temporarily) to reduce to 4 or 3 days and maybe the full subsidy of 350 can be claimed, if this is the case maybe negotiate with employer for a topup that allows them to get full subsidy therefore you are not costing them much to top up (the top up could add to the subsidy to the level of your original full net and employer could still get subsidy.

Kewreeuss · 17-07-2020 11:08pm

I still don't get it.
I take home 400 euro each and every week.
I work the same hours.
Outside the subsidy my 400 euro is the result of gross less taxes.
In the subsidy my 400 is my gross and I don't pay taxes.
As far as my bank account is concerned nothing has changed.
As far as Revenue is concerned my gross pay is down and I still owe taxes.
You are saying then that my employer can't reduce my hours and he can't reduce my hourly rate below minimum wage?
if I agree to work less hours so that I get my maximum net pay (85% subsidy, 15% max top up) thats allowed, but I have to be asked?
I agree, they have had plenty of time to consider more suitable assistance to employers than letting this scheme continue to run. It was fine for a while, but they should have considered that places have opened up, work is beginning to pick up and the cash emergency after everyone being laid off is receding. Plus We are all going to owe taxes at the end of the year.
I don't know how to go back and read the previous post again, without losing what I've written already.
It's not the employers fault that as you say he is encouraged to pay less. If he is in the scheme for cash flow, he might want to pay your correct wages, but that blasted net pay is a killer.

kennethsmyth · 17-07-2020 11:26pm

Kewreeuss wrote: »

I still don't get it.
I take home 400 euro each and every week.
I work the same hours.
Outside the subsidy my 400 euro is the result of gross less taxes.
In the subsidy my 400 is my gross and I don't pay taxes.
As far as my bank account is concerned nothing has changed.
As far as Revenue is concerned my gross pay is down and I still owe taxes.
You are saying then that my employer can't reduce my hours and he can't reduce my hourly rate below minimum wage?
if I agree to work less hours so that I get my maximum net pay (85% subsidy, 15% max top up) thats allowed, but I have to be asked?
I agree, they have had plenty of time to consider more suitable assistance to employers than letting this scheme continue to run. It was fine for a while, but they should have considered that places have opened up, work is beginning to pick up and the cash emergency after everyone being laid off is receding. Plus We are all going to owe taxes at the end of the year.
I don't know how to go back and read the previous post again, without losing what I've written already.
It's not the employers fault that as you say he is encouraged to pay less. If he is in the scheme for cash flow, he might want to pay your correct wages, but that blasted net pay is a killer.

Ok to keep it simple, your contract is between you and employer, twss does not change this. If you were working less hours or not working (but being kept on by employer) the twss has its place. However if you are back full time with normal hours then the employer should pay you your full normal wage gross and taxed appropriately.

Employer cannot in any circumstances pay less than minimum wage of 10.10 gross per hour. This would be illegal. The emergency legislation did not change any of this. It only moved the employees right to force a redundancy situation due to layoffs or short time.

Other than something specific in a contract the employer cannot do the following without your consent.
Reduce pay
Reduce hours (unless short time which has its own rules)

blackwhite · 18-07-2020 12:23am

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Not quite correct - if the 350.01 equals less than 10.10 per hour then it is illegal - end of.

An employer can only reduce hours if its in your contract or if put on short time. Employer cannot unilaterally change your salary as per your contract.

The twss scheme is between revenue and employer - not the employee, other than is the employee eligible to be used by employer in scheme.

Yes if the employer reduces hours they could pay the employee more. Eg employee now works 4 days but is paid for 5 to allow claim for employer for twos.

The scheme essentially encourages employers to not pay contracted pay so that they can claim twss. The scheme was very badly setup, it should of been fixed when they had the chance early on when they changed the scheme from the original 410 aspect.
Revenue always dealt in gross figures and then taxable figures - why on earth they used net figures is beyond me - its incredibly stupid and unfair to individuals as two people with same gross figures could essentially get different net amounts due to how their tax credits or payments to pension where on their payslip. BUT the actual "net" figure of twss is not "net" its gross and yet to be taxed.

If an employer elects to operate under the TWSS then the rules of the scheme make it virtually impossible to pay an employee the same gross as they earned in Jan/Feb (unless of course they were on less than €350 ARWNP)

Choices for an employee are simple. For your employer to validly participate in the scheme they need to be able to demonstrate that they cannot pay normal wages. If they cannot pay normal wages then your choice is take the TWSS rates, or be laid off and take €350 a week.
If you believe your employer can afford to continue to pay normal wages; then hold out for that, and if they refuse then you take them to WRC whilst reporting to Revenue that they are inappropriately participating in the scheme.

maj206 · 18-07-2020 5:33pm

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

Anyone know what the story is with regard to availing of the TWSS but having your hours cut to a 4 day or 3 day week? Is the scheme still an option, does it restrict people from claiming social welfare (can't be receiving two forms of benefit etc).

Thanks folks.

i am wondering this too as my days have been cut to 3, i rang social welfare office last week and they told me i can apply for short time working benefit as well as receiving the wage subsidy but my manager is telling me i can't do both? something fishy going on .....

Kewreeuss · 18-07-2020 8:57pm

maj206 wrote: »

i am wondering this too as my days have been cut to 3, i rang social welfare office last week and they told me i can apply for short time working benefit as well as receiving the wage subsidy but my manager is telling me i can't do both? something fishy going on .....

Really? the full 350 plus 2 days unemployment pay. Umm, that does sound fishy!

maj206 · 19-07-2020 7:13pm

Kewreeuss wrote: »

Really? the full 350 plus 2 days unemployment pay. Umm, that does sound fishy!

yep thats what the lady in social welfare office told me, not sure why my manager is saying i can't tho?? i have applied online for the benefit but will prob go in to the local office during the week when i'm off as i'll prob need to bring documentation anyway

mr_edge_to_you · 20-07-2020 6:15am

maj206 wrote: »

yep thats what the lady in social welfare office told me, not sure why my manager is saying i can't tho?? i have applied online for the benefit but will prob go in to the local office during the week when i'm off as i'll prob need to bring documentation anyway

In fairness to your manager, the SW comment seems mad to me I don't see how an employer could get the subsidy while reducing your hours by 40%.

Tow · 20-07-2020 8:52am

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

I don't see how an employer could get the subsidy while reducing your hours by 40%.

TWSS has nothing to do with working. The employee can be sitting at home and their employer can pay them TWSS. It is however legal illegal to pay below the minimum wage and below the employees contracted rate without agreement. In some cases the only way an employer can legally pay an employees is to reduce their hours to be inline with the TWSS amount allocated to the employee.

On the other side the main qualifying factor for TWSS is a "25% reduction in turnover in Quarter 2". There are many companies who quality on the 25% reduction in turnover, but with their greatly reduced staff costs will make a large profit at the tax payers expense. Most do the decent thing and drop out of the scheme, but some will milk it as much as possible.

maj206 · 20-07-2020 9:00am

the 350 is a little over what i would normally get for 3 days but my place of work is now back to full hours , i have been cut to 3 so that they don't have to pay me the difference (top up my wage) if i went to 4 days or more.
have a look on citizens advice site it clearly states you can claim short time working benefit while getting wage subsidy. the fact i am being told i can't do both suggests to me they are abusing the subsidy scheme in some way and me applying for benefits may effect them ?

kennethsmyth · 20-07-2020 12:28pm

Tow wrote: »

TWSS has nothing to do with working. The employee can be sitting at home and their employer can pay them TWSS. It is however legal to pay below the minimum wage and below the employees contracted rate without agreement. In some cases the only way an employer can legally pay an employees is to reduce their hours to be inline with the TWSS amount allocated to the employee.

On the other side the main qualifying factor for TWSS is a "25% reduction in turnover in Quarter 2". There are many companies who quality on the 25% reduction in turnover, but with their greatly reduced staff costs will make a large profit at the tax payers expense. Most do the decent thing and drop out of the scheme, but some will milk it as much as possible.

I think you meant to say "illegal" not "legal"

irishrover99 · 21-07-2020 6:36pm

Hopefully somebody can help here.
My Wife has just been on 2 weeks annual leave but her payslips still say Covid payment and not holiday pay. Is this normal?

Kar1994 · 21-07-2020 8:15pm

In relation to the scheme and holiday pay, is your employer meant to sign off and pay holiday pay themselves and put you back on the scheme after that? Our company has said its paying our holidays through wage subsidy. Firstly i think its a bit cheeky but this also means that im not getting my full holiday pay? (not getting my correct contractual wage at the moment so i have finally been aloud cut down a few hours to even it out)

Seve OB · 21-07-2020 8:18pm

Nothing to say employer can’t use the scheme to process holiday payments

maj206 · 22-07-2020 2:22pm

just back from intreo office, got a form to fill out and one for my employer and they took copy of my passport, proof of address etc, i am entitled to claim x and o for the 2 days i'm off as it goes by my previous prsi contributions and is not means tested so can still get wage subsidy as its not me applying for subsidy its my employer!! should be able to get it backdated also to when my company opened fully but my days were cut in early june so very happy with that outcome

scamalert · 22-07-2020 3:10pm

need input guys, family member who works seasonal factory work were laid off mid March- nothing to do with virus, just end of contract.

said person went to receive covid19 payment afterwards for 6 weeks or so- not by choice as everyone were put on it at the time, so returning extra overpay isnt an issue here while unemployed.

Anyhow old workplace called back again for new season contract was drafted in hourly wage 10.10e, now reading back think its done intentional and min 40hours a week, instead of normal wage and paying proper tax deductions on payslip it just shows subsidy for covid and 350e into hands- no hours worked attached or any tax deductions, is if fair to assume place is being shady and exploiting the scheme, since work is normal as usual, but from what i gather factory receives 410e for each person and pays 0, while clearly person working doesnt even get wages outlined in contract.

As it mentions online scheme is to either maintain or supplement workers, but in this case seems people are put on subsidy scheme while doing full time work, as usual

:cool:

jammiedodgers · 22-07-2020 3:25pm

scamalert wrote: »

need input guys, family member who works seasonal factory work were laid off mid March- nothing to do with virus, just end of contract.

said person went to receive covid19 payment afterwards for 6 weeks or so- not by choice as everyone were put on it at the time, so returning extra overpay isnt an issue here while unemployed.

Anyhow old workplace called back again for new season contract was drafted in hourly wage and min 40hours a week, instead of normal wage and paying proper tax deductions on payslip it just shows subsidy for covid and 350e into hands- no hours worked attached or any tax deductions, is if fair to assume place is being shady and exploiting the scheme, since work is normal as usual, but from what i gather factory receives 410e for each person and pays 0, while clearly person working doesnt even get wages outlined in contract.

As it mentions online scheme is to either maintain or supplement workers, but in this case seems people are put on subsidy scheme while doing full time work, as usual :cool:

The company needs to show a 25% reduction in business for Q2 I believe to qualify for the scheme.
There is no onus on the company to top up the subsidy payment. The subsidy is not taxable in real time but will be instead be taxed at year end.
They will not be receiving €410 from Revenue, that was only happening at the start of the scheme and any overpayments will be repaid to Revenue.
While the company is not exploiting the scheme, it is still illegal to be paying less than minimum wage.

scamalert · 22-07-2020 3:49pm

thx for reply, i can see how factory would be easily able to prove and claim subsidy- as been decline since brexit start in production, but hourly wage works out at 8.75 at full hours, yet person only got paid 350.1 twice for full 40hours, in other words employer put in 10c on top to make it over 350, not sure what advise to give person, as clearly works out way below minimum wage and they pay no tax ? at least its not mentioned on payslip anyway, which other info i found online that tax credits will be adjusted come end of year for worker

jammiedodgers · 22-07-2020 4:08pm

They have to put some amount in as gross pay to process the payroll so that is what the €0.01/€0.10 is for.
More than likely tax credits will be adjusted next year to cover any outstanding amounts.

Tow · 22-07-2020 4:31pm

scamalert wrote: »

thx for reply, i can see how factory would be easily able to prove and claim subsidy- as been decline since brexit start in production, but hourly wage works out at 8.75 at full hours, yet person only got paid 350.1 twice for full 40hours, in other words employer put in 10c on top to make it over 350, not sure what advise to give person, as clearly works out way below minimum wage and they pay no tax ? at least its not mentioned on payslip anyway, which other info i found online that tax credits will be adjusted come end of year for worker

It is illegal to pay less than the minimum wage and/or the hourly contracted rate, without prior agreement.

Apart from they are milking the system, same as many other companies are now doing. The requirement is "a minimum of a 25% reduction in turnover, customer orders or any other ‘reasonable basis’ for the three months to 30 June 2020, Quarter 2" https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/ebrief/2020/no-1172020.aspx

Many a company is making a good profit now that business has returned and they are getting free labor etc.

scamalert · 22-07-2020 4:38pm

jammiedodgers wrote: »

They have to put some amount in as gross pay to process the payroll so that is what the €0.01/€0.10 is for.
More than likely tax credits will be adjusted next year to cover any outstanding amounts.

well if it wasnt close family i wouldn't care much, as its non essential work, and proper contract was given, but worked hour records are kept with employer and all staff even full time ones are on same reduced wages doing full hours that simply doesn't seem right, since there was no mention about pay being paid as subsidy, and 1st week is withheld until season finishes thus a bit late notice, in whats been cooked up regarding this new scheme.

so to be clear you think its nothing wrong with way factory employ's this scheme

jammiedodgers · 22-07-2020 5:21pm

scamalert wrote: »

so to be clear you think its nothing wrong with way factory employ's this scheme

As far as I can see there is nothing wrong with how they are operating the scheme. The issue is paying less than minimum wage/contracted rate per hour.

Millionaire only not · 22-07-2020 5:25pm

I haven’t followed this thread but yesterday it was brought to my attention my accountant firm well established is claiming it . They have worked full time through covit business has not been affected one bit !
I have since enquired 2 more friends that run good businesses both claiming the 85% of there wages yet both are up running as strong as ever and have actually increased work since restrictions were lifted ! One is claiming 55k a week towards wages !
Another told me have the country is on it and it’s being extended into next year is this right ?

I’m totally disgusted how dishonest these people are no morals of any description one is actually gone off buying new car .

Wage Subsidy Scheme Issues

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