Wage Subsidy Scheme Issues

blackwhite

Some further digging on this.

Error in the Revenue files for our 3 legal entities seems to impact on any employee with ARNWP of between €943.75 and €960.

Column P (Tier 2) in the spreadsheet calculates a value based on 80% of ARNWP, and if that value returns higher than €755.00 then it appears to default the max top-up to €755. Works out correct for the vast majority, but for a very small number of staff it throws out an incorrect value.

We've flagged to Revenue so waiting to hear back from them

PaybackPayroll

blackwhite wrote: »

I understand the scheme and how the calculations work.

In the Revenue file, for 2 of our employees, if you take the Tier2 Max Wage Subsidy (Tier2MWWS) of €205, and add the Max Top-up defined in the file (Tier2MWEPBT) then the total is coming to €960.00 - despite their calculated ARNWP being less than €960. The rules only allow you to pay higher than ARNWP if the value is less than €350 - so if we were to pay the Max Tier 2 Subsidy and Max Tier 2 Top-UP as per the file, we'd be breaching the ARNWP rule.


Example is below

ARNWP is €943.82

Tier1 Max Subsidy €350
Tier1 Max Top-Up €566.29

If we were to claim the €350, then paying the max top-up to ARNWP would be €593.82 - 63% of ARWNP. To qualify for the €350 we would be capped at a top-up of €566.29

In the file we see Tier1MWWS is €350, and Tier1MWEPBT is €566.29. So far so good.


Because we want to top up to the Max allowed, we will instead claim the €205.

Under the scheme rules, the Maximum top-up allowed is the difference between the Subsidy and the ARWNP - which is €738.82 (943.82 less 205)

However - what we currently see in the file for this employee is:
Tier2 Max Subsidy €205
Tier2 Max Top-Up €755

If we paid these, it would total €960 - €16.24 higher than the employee's ARWNP - which is not allowed under point 1.6 of the Revenue guidance.

For your example, the graph looks like the attached.

Note that it is probably never beneficial to top up above the first tier.

WeleaseWoderick

My understanding that since the latest changes, anyone with an ARNWP between €412 and €500 would have a subsidy figure of a flat €350?

This is the case for the vast majority of our employees on the CSV file but for two employees, the subsidy figure is still being calculated at 70% i.e. lower than the €350

boardzz

Hi.

I'm finding it difficult to understand the wage subsidy and employer HR isn't helping.
If we are working 80% of normal time and normal net is 3000 monthly, how does subsidy work for this?
Also for 50% how does it work?

collsoft

It might be the case that these employees have multiple employments.

If they have, then the subsidy is apportioned between the two employments so that is why it would appear reduced in your CSV.

WeleaseWoderick wrote: »

My understanding that since the latest changes, anyone with an ARNWP between €412 and €500 would have a subsidy figure of a flat €350?

This is the case for the vast majority of our employees on the CSV file but for two employees, the subsidy figure is still being calculated at 70% i.e. lower than the €350

socco

If an employee is also getting another social welfare payment like oap can they still claim TWSS?

collsoft

Yes indeed, if an employee has a benefit like a contributory pension, careers allowance, single parent family allowance etc then they are still eligible for a wage subsidy, and they wont loose the benefit.

However, they cant receive Jobseekers or Pandemic Unemployment Payment (PUP) and receive the subsidy. If they receive a wage subsidy this will stop the Jobseekers or PUP

socco wrote: »

If an employee is also getting another social welfare payment like oap can they still claim TWSS?

Seve OB

so i've imported the revenue file
am i right in saying it does nothing more than import a record into the employee details with their average net as per the revenue. i think this figure for all my employees is the same to what the payroll previously calculated.

i don't think it updates the amount payable based on any new allowable rates, ie the jump to 85%..... or does it?

im using micropay, it asks for the payment you are using, i've selected that... and to test if it does update, i removed the rates for a couple of employees and tried importing them to test, but it doesn't enter an amount into the rate.

do we just calculate the subsidy amount ourselves as before based on any changes there might be?

Pistachio19

This is probably a stupid question but how do you know whether the employee is to be given €350 or €205 wage subsidy payment? 2 employees are straightforward - revenue gives their max wage subsidy amount and the amount we can top up by. Both earn less than €500 net per week.

The other 2 have figures in Tier 1 (equates to 60% of their ARNWP), €350 in the Tier1MWWS column and then in Tier 2 the figure equates to 80% of ARNWP and has €205 in Tier2MWWS, but we don't know which to use.

Seve OB

actually, to update that, there is a sage page which says that the payroll automatically calculates the amount. ive gone through all staff and the subsidy amount was not changed for anyone, but it should have been for some as they do qualify for the changes and

i actually picked up on one which i had been short paying (my mistake in initial calc). i think i can update this amount but can't back date it?

Seve OB

scratch that, the standard amount didn't change, but when i actually process the payroll, it has the updated amount as the actual payment amount. all correct as i redid the calculations manually just to be sure

ilovespudss

collsoft wrote: »

Yes indeed, if an employee has a benefit like a contributory pension, careers allowance, single parent family allowance etc then they are still eligible for a wage subsidy, and they wont loose the benefit.

However, they cant receive Jobseekers or Pandemic Unemployment Payment (PUP) and receive the subsidy. If they receive a wage subsidy this will stop the Jobseekers or PUP

Will this effect the subsidy amount though. As in Revenue see this as a second income source or 'employment' and adjust the subsidy accordingly!

We have a couple of guys that have a lower Revenue CSV file subsidy than I would had calculated myself.

I know that two of the three receive an army pension, the third guy was puzzling me but just realised from your post that he probably receives a carers allowance.

I was onto Revenue today and they couldn't really give me a definitive answer but did advise that the CSV file is gospel, so we'd need to match payroll to that.

collsoft

I dont think so.

The only thing that effects the subsidy amount is other live employments - not social welfare benefits as far as I am aware.

It is solely based on employer Payroll Submissions - not on social welfare payments.

ilovespudss wrote: »

Will this effect the subsidy amount though. As in Revenue see this as a second income source or 'employment' and adjust the subsidy accordingly!

We have a couple of guys that have a lower Revenue CSV file subsidy than I would had calculated myself.

I know that two of the three receive an army pension, the third guy was puzzling me but just realised from your post that he probably receives a carers allowance.

I was onto Revenue today and they couldn't really give me a definitive answer but did advise that the CSV file is gospel, so we'd need to match payroll to that.

ilovespudss

collsoft wrote: »

I dont think so.

The only thing that effects the subsidy amount is other live employments - not social welfare benefits as far as I am aware.

It is solely based on employer Payroll Submissions - not on social welfare payments.

That was my understanding too. I just thought that it was too big of a coincidence that the only 3 lads to not match what I expected, all have pension/allowances as well.

I have a query out with Revenue but I'm sure I won't get word back before tomorrows run

Tow

ilovespudss wrote: »

the only 3 lads to not match what I expected, all have pension/allowances as well.

If they are receiving a Pension it would also have a RPN. So are effectively another employment and their TWSS payment would be divided accordingly.

ilovespudss

Tow wrote: »

If they are receiving a Pension it would also have a RPN. So are effectively another employment and their TWSS payment would be divided accordingly.

Thanks for that

collsoft

I just got off my daily skype call with Revenue and a number of Payroll providers reported cases where the subsidy seems to have been reduced where an employee is in receipt of one of these benefit payments.

The Revenue team didnt think that the subsidy should be reduced as described but they are going to look into it.

Im not entirely sure that there is a separate RPN that is allocated to DEASP, and therefore it shouldnt look like a second employment on Revenue systems.

But lets see what they say

ilovespudss wrote: »

Thanks for that

CoronaBlocker

Folks, my employer ended my employment with immediate effect last Friday evening after close-of-business (we were supposed to be on the WSS but he cocked it up and got kicked off it by Revenue apparently). He has paid my wages up until last friday (payment was made on Tuesday morning this week) but he did not pay my 7 days of annual leave owed and nor has he paid me one weeks salary in lieu of notice (one week is all that is required as I was only there 11 months). And now he's gone dark on me.

To be sure - as covid-19 has muddied the waters a bit - he still owes me my annual leave and one week's pay in lieu of notice, right? Or am I wrong? Also, he has so far failed to update my status on his Revenue account.

I just want to check that I'm right on all of the above before I go for the pliers and the blow-torch approach here. All advice appreciated.

.

kennethsmyth

CoronaBlocker wrote: »

Folks, my employer ended my employment with immediate effect last Friday evening after close-of-business (we were supposed to be on the WSS but he cocked it up and got kicked off it by Revenue apparently). He has paid my wages up until last friday (payment was made on Tuesday morning this week) but he did not pay my 7 days of annual leave owed and nor has he paid me one weeks salary in lieu of notice (one week is all that is required as I was only there 11 months). And now he's gone dark on me.

To be sure - as covid-19 has muddied the waters a bit - he still owes me my annual leave and one week's pay in lieu of notice, right? Or am I wrong? Also, he has so far failed to update my status on his Revenue account.

I just want to check that I'm right on all of the above before I go for the pliers and the blow-torch approach here. All advice appreciated.

.

You are entitled to both. You may be waiting for WRC but I’d pressure him now but be nice, if not forthcoming or tells you to get lost let him know he will be followed fully for the full money etc

The_Chap

Well this new payroll update is fun, doesn’t really work when net to gross is used (don’t ask!) so it’s back to manually calculate and check, good job I only have a dozen or so to do!

tina1040

Question about annual leave and twss:

Does annual leave accrue for

1.Employees getting the subsidy only (ie no top up) but not working?

2. Employees getting the subsidy with full allowed top up but not working?

3. Employees getting the subsidy with full allowed top up and doing 1 day per week essential admin?

And while I'm here does annual leave accrue for a couple of employees who are on temporary lay off?

Thanks!

Seve OB

tina1040 wrote: »

Question about annual leave and twss:

Does annual leave accrue for

1.Employees getting the subsidy only (ie no top up) but not working?

2. Employees getting the subsidy with full allowed top up but not working?

3. Employees getting the subsidy with full allowed top up and doing 1 day per week essential admin?

And while I'm here does annual leave accrue for a couple of employees who are on temporary lay off?

Thanks!

i think i read somewhere that annual leave should accrue. either way, we are accruing annual leave for all of our staff who range similar to your 3 categories, i think its best in the long run

CoronaBlocker

kennethsmyth wrote: »

You are entitled to both. You may be waiting for WRC but I’d pressure him now but be nice, if not forthcoming or tells you to get lost let him know he will be followed fully for the full money etc

Thank you - that brings peace of mind. I appreciate your response.

Kevint30

Hi All,

I have a query in relation to the actual revenue COVID refund received for April.

We got refunded 1,640 per eligible employee (410*4), but our expected refund was 2,050 (410*5) as April was a 5 week period. I believe if we are being consistent with calculations made when calculating ARNWP for monthly payroll initially the correct subsidy per week per employee should be 1,776.66(410*52/12). Thoughts anyone?

I do understand this is only estimated subsidy before operational phase, but should the subsidy be for a 5 week period and not the 4 weeks?

collsoft

Hi All,

Just to let you know that Revenue have released a change to the ROS dashboards that lets you view the actual detail of the refunds that they have paid out under TWSS.

In particular, if an employee has been rejected under the scheme it will give you a reason (or reason code) for why it was rejected.

I have attached screenshots showing where to access this information in ROS

collsoft

Employees who have been laid off and are who not actually working are not entitled to accrue annual leave.

If they are working from home then they would accrue holidays as normal.

They are however entitled to be paid for all public holidays for 13 weeks from the date when they were laid off.

Mind you, as SEVE_OB pointed out, employers may decide to continue to accrue annual leave for them in order to maintain good industrial relations - but they are not obliged to.

tina1040 wrote: »

Question about annual leave and twss:

Does annual leave accrue for

1.Employees getting the subsidy only (ie no top up) but not working?

2. Employees getting the subsidy with full allowed top up but not working?

3. Employees getting the subsidy with full allowed top up and doing 1 day per week essential admin?

And while I'm here does annual leave accrue for a couple of employees who are on temporary lay off?

Thanks!

collsoft

You are absolutely entitled to those payments.

I dont know anything about your employer or the situation that he is in.

But I can tell you that if I had to make the decision to close my business I would find that a pretty traumatic experience, and to be honest I might stick my head in the sand for a few days to let it sink in.

Your own employer may be feeling the same at the moment.

CoronaBlocker wrote: »

Folks, my employer ended my employment with immediate effect last Friday evening after close-of-business (we were supposed to be on the WSS but he cocked it up and got kicked off it by Revenue apparently). He has paid my wages up until last friday (payment was made on Tuesday morning this week) but he did not pay my 7 days of annual leave owed and nor has he paid me one weeks salary in lieu of notice (one week is all that is required as I was only there 11 months). And now he's gone dark on me.

To be sure - as covid-19 has muddied the waters a bit - he still owes me my annual leave and one week's pay in lieu of notice, right? Or am I wrong? Also, he has so far failed to update my status on his Revenue account.

I just want to check that I'm right on all of the above before I go for the pliers and the blow-torch approach here. All advice appreciated.

.

Seve OB

collsoft wrote: »

Hi All,

Just to let you know that Revenue have released a change to the ROS dashboards that lets you view the actual detail of the refunds that they have paid out under TWSS.

In particular, if an employee has been rejected under the scheme it will give you a reason (or reason code) for why it was rejected.

I have attached screenshots showing where to access this information in ROS

nice one, might help with the reconciling. i never got around to doing it the other night. incidentally i had it already set up with a separate balance sheet control account for the covid as you mentioned in earlier post

Kaonashi

This is about employee eligibility.
Revenues guidance-on-operation-of-temporary-covid-wage-subsidy-scheme.pdf
Section 3.1 defines who is eligible and who is not.

But is this list exhausted ? Could there be more circumstances where employee is not eligible for TWSS ?

Can employee work on call and be eligible for the scheme?
Does working week on / week off makes employee eligible for the scheme ?

collsoft

You can operate the Subsidy Scheme on a Week-On, Week-Off basis no problem.

Depending on the amount of pay earned on the "Week-On" you may even still be eligible for a subsidy payment.

Likewise, you can pay the subsidy for people "On-Call" but the amount of subsidy will be determined by the on-call allowance that is paid.

Generally speaking you can make regular employer payments and still be on the scheme, but the amount of the employer payment will influence the subsidy payment, and in some cases may eliminate the subsidy (and eligibility for the scheme that week) if the payment is high enough.

Each employee must be looked at on a case by case basis, and you must follow the relevant instruction in the CSV file from Revenue in determining the subsidy payment.

Kaonashi wrote: »

This is about employee eligibility.
Revenues guidance-on-operation-of-temporary-covid-wage-subsidy-scheme.pdf
Section 3.1 defines who is eligible and who is not.

But is this list exhausted ? Could there be more circumstances where employee is not eligible for TWSS ?

Can employee work on call and be eligible for the scheme?
Does working week on / week off makes employee eligible for the scheme ?