Why is there ever a debate about who was the best Irish Sports person ever? READ OP

Fr D Maugire · 27-07-2020 5:42pm

If we are talking about sports stars standings within their own sports, then Sean Kelly would be up there. Kelly is considered a legend in World Cycling and I am sure many cycling fans would still rank him in the top 20/30 of all time. I dont think you can say that about Keane in football or Sonia in athletics.

Katie Taylor is a good shout, but her sport(gender wise) is still in its infancy.

.anon. · 27-07-2020 6:02pm

Randy Archer wrote: »

Belfast is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It’s British. His family were ORANGEMEN, it way less bigoted to Irish people

Yeah, 'British' in the same way as the Begorrah Bejaysus Craic Den in Boston is 'Irish'.

sxt · 27-07-2020 6:02pm

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

If we are talking about sports stars standings within their own sports, then Sean Kelly would be up there. Kelly is considered a legend in World Cycling and I am sure many cycling fans would still rank him in the top 20/30 of all time. I dont think you can say that about Keane in football or Sonia in athletics.

Katie Taylor is a good shout, but her sport(gender wise) is still in its infancy.

You can say that about Keane. Roy Keane played for Man United, Stephen Gerrard played for Liverpool and England

Premier League

'He was someone I was a big fan of' - Steven Gerrard names Roy Keane in his world XI
Liverpool's Steven Gerrard during one of his many tussles with Manchester United midfielder Roy Keane
1
Liverpool's Steven Gerrard during one of his many tussles with Manchester United midfielder Roy Keane

Kevin Palmer
April 16 2020 11:37 AM
Steven Gerrard has revealed he was a huge fan of Manchester United legend Roy Keane, admitting he modelled his own dynamic style of play after studying the Irishman.

The Liverpool legend picked a world eleven from players he had competed against, with the stipulation that he could not use the same club or country more than once.

His decision to select Keane ensured Cristiano Ronaldo was not in his line-up and he explained why the former Republic of Ireland skipper had such a bid influence on him.

"He was a cert to go in there," Gerrard said of Keane on the Sky Sports Football Show. "He was someone I was a big fan of as I was growing up and I really studied his game.

"Then I had a lot of battles against him and he was a top player. I don't think you appreciated how good you were until you were up against him. He was fit and strong, a box-to-box midfielder and he had to go in."
[/QUOTE]

Fr D Maugire · 27-07-2020 6:10pm

sxt wrote: »

You can say that about Keane. Roy Keane played for Man United, Stephen Gerrard played for Liverpool and England

Premier League

'He was someone I was a big fan of' - Steven Gerrard names Roy Keane in his world XI
Liverpool's Steven Gerrard during one of his many tussles with Manchester United midfielder Roy Keane
1
Liverpool's Steven Gerrard during one of his many tussles with Manchester United midfielder Roy Keane

Kevin Palmer
April 16 2020 11:37 AM
Steven Gerrard has revealed he was a huge fan of Manchester United legend Roy Keane, admitting he modelled his own dynamic style of play after studying the Irishman.

The Liverpool legend picked a world eleven from players he had competed against, with the stipulation that he could not use the same club or country more than once.

His decision to select Keane ensured Cristiano Ronaldo was not in his line-up and he explained why the former Republic of Ireland skipper had such a bid influence on him.

"He was a cert to go in there," Gerrard said of Keane on the Sky Sports Football Show. "He was someone I was a big fan of as I was growing up and I really studied his game.

"Then I had a lot of battles against him and he was a top player. I don't think you appreciated how good you were until you were up against him. He was fit and strong, a box-to-box midfielder and he had to go in."

[/quote]

Outside of Ireland/UK. I dont think many people would put Keane as one of the greatest 25 footballers of all time.

sxt · 27-07-2020 6:36pm

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

Outside of Ireland/UK. I dont think many people would put Keane as one of the greatest 25 footballers of all time.[/QUOTE]
Depends on if they played against him or not I think he was the best player in midfield that ever lived

Frankx · 27-07-2020 6:54pm

Joey Dunlop

Had speed skill and bravery

Jimbob1977 · 27-07-2020 7:01pm

Charles J. Haughey

Tour De France 1987

World Cup quarter-final 1990

Fr D Maugire · 27-07-2020 7:42pm

sxt wrote: »

Outside of Ireland/UK. I dont think many people would put Keane as one of the greatest 25 footballers of all time.

Depends on if they played against him or not I think he was the best player in midfield that ever lived[/quote]

And that is a typical attitude of people who primarily watch the premier league. In 2013, World Soccer ran a poll for the greatest 11 of all time. 74 Journalists from various countries took part, for midfield Keane got 1 vote.....the same amount as Liam Brady, mind still one more than the likes of Gerard, Lampard etc. 22 other MIdfield players got more votes than Keane including Xavi and Iniesta. As pointed out by others, Keane was never in the running for the Ballon d'r either so he clearly is not as highly rated outside of the premier league.

In cycling, there was a season long competition run between 1958 and 1987 to decide the best cyclist each year. Eddy Merckx 7, Bernard Hinault 4, Jacques Anquetil 4 were the most successful and are probably considered the 3 greatest of all time, maybe Fausto Coppi as well but he was before that competition . Sean Kelly won it 3 times and was 2nd twice. Ranked No 1 in the world for 7 consecutive years.

No comparison.

No comparison.

Truthvader · 27-07-2020 8:40pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

That was a once off for Delaney, he didn't feature before or after

That s actually the point. He was a Sportsman, Won Olympic Gold, came home got on with his life without making a career out of it.

And he didn't sulk off home because the facilities weren't good enough for him, or jack himself up on steroids to win at all costs or assault anyone in a pub etc etc. To be fair great time for Sonia too but Olympic Gold is Olympic Gold

Galwayguy35 · 27-07-2020 9:03pm

Maybe I missed it but haven't seen Barry McGuigan or Steve Collins mentioned.

Irishman80 · 27-07-2020 9:14pm

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

In cycling, there was a season long competition run between 1958 and 1987 to decide the best cyclist each year. Eddy Merckx 7, Bernard Hinault 4, Jacques Anquetil 4 were the most successful and are probably considered the 3 greatest of all time, maybe Fausto Coppi as well but he was before that competition . Sean Kelly won it 3 times and was 2nd twice. Ranked No 1 in the world for 7 consecutive years.

No comparison.

No comparison.

This is a great call. One of the greatest cyclists of all time - no question.

Water John · 27-07-2020 9:18pm

Irishman80 wrote: »

This is a great call. One of the greatest cyclists of all time - no question.

But cycling has a major cloud over the whole sport. It is a tough sport.

chopperbyrne · 27-07-2020 9:21pm

As much as I think Steve Collins and Conor McGregor are both giant pricks, their achievements in their sports put both of them in the argument for sure.

Collins was WBO Middleweight champion, and moved up to take on Chris Eubank, beat him and won the Super Middleweight title when it was the best, most competitive division in the world.

He then successfully defended against Eubank, and defended it another six times, including against Nigel Benn twice.

McGregor, won titles in the top European Promotion in two weight divisions, signed with UFC, and tore through the Featherweight division, defeating previously undefeated for ten years Jose Aldo.

Then moved up in weight, and won the Lightweight title.

Sean Kelly is definitely in the top five and possibly number one. His achievements in cycling are ridiculous. The only black mark is he did have two positive tests for banned substances.

Harrington's achievements in golf seem to always be underrated. Very few golfers win one major, let alone three.

Keane is arguably the best footballer we've ever produced, and he's definitely up there in the argument.

Irishman80 · 27-07-2020 9:26pm

Water John wrote: »

But cycling has a major cloud over the whole sport. It is a tough sport.

We could say that about many sports. It doesn't negate the fact Kelly is one of the greatest cyclists to ever get on a bike.

You'll nearly always see his name on lists of the top 10 cyclists of all time and often in top 5's too.

An absolute beast of a man.

FixdePitchmark · 27-07-2020 9:44pm

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

She didn't dominate her sport!

She was highly competitive in her sport - but domination is an entirely different thing.

Usain Bolt dominated his sport. 8 olympic gold medals, 11 world championship golds... holds the 100m world record (and has broken it 4 times), 200m world record... countless guinness world records etc. He's still only 33 and retired 3 or 4 years ago - many athletes are still competing at his age!

That's domination!

Sonia O'Sullivan was highly competitive and highly talented, but never quite fulfilled her huge potential at the highest level.

But we are talking in an Irish context.

Very very few Irish Sports People have done domination.

Sonia was at an extraordinary level of competition on a global level and been beaten by eastern block athletes and Chinese - we all know what that means.

She won medals at 16 major events at world and Euopean medals. The Irish go mad when we win anything - but Sonia suffered as she had bad Olympics by her standards - but was extraordinarily unlucky and cheated out of it too.

Rory a fantastic player and a character, fantastic energy and competitive edge. But I tend to think Irish overestimated the standard he played at. The English league was nowhere near where it is now. Would Keane even get in the great Arsenal team of the time.

Did he play with many World cup winners at his peak ? , did he win many European cups ?

Sonia for me.

ToddDameron · 27-07-2020 9:51pm

It's Roy Keane for the longevity of his domination at the top level. Katie Taylor is second because Roy Keane had to produce week in week out. To have to maintain that level of fitness, hunger and mentality for so long and often is an incredible feat.

py2006 · 27-07-2020 10:53pm

sxt wrote: »

Outside of Ireland/UK. I dont think many people would put Keane as one of the greatest 25 footballers of all time.

I remember the German national manager during the time saying he wished Keane was German. Also Italian clubs were very interested in him.

Water John · 27-07-2020 11:28pm

Brady went to Italy and excelled. does that make him a better player? I would not say that it does, but would say he was a more talented footballer.

but my vote goes to Sonia.

Randy Archer · 27-07-2020 11:55pm

The Tetrarch wrote: »

What about this search of the internet?

The Ballon d'Or is an annual football award presented by French news magazine France Football, one of the oldest and generally regarded as the most prestigious individual award for football players.
It shows the top three players each year from 1956 to present.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballon_d%27Or

... based on voting by football journalists, from 1956 to 2006.
After 2007, coaches and captains of national teams were also given the right to vote.
Originally, it was an award only for players from Europe and widely known as the European Footballer of the Year award.
In 1995, the Ballon d'Or was expanded to include all players from any origin that have been active at European clubs.
The award became a global prize in 2007 with all professional footballers from around the world being eligible.

But that is only the opinion of football journalists, national coaches and captains. (fwiw Gerrard came 3rd in 2005.)
Roy Keane played when the award was restricted to European players and he did not feature.
If it assessed world players from 1956 onwards he would have less chance.

Roy Keane was not in the 1,2,3 in any year.

Figo is on record to say that he only realised how good Keane was in 2001 when Portugal met in Dublin. Keane was excellent that day

Now bear in mind, both guys would have met in the underage tournaments and qualifiers and were around the same age. Both would have met in the CL over the years , and Keane definitely stood out in the UCL 1998/99 season (Zidane felt his boot )

Keane had a reputation that wouldn’t have endeared on the media ,outside Manchester and maybe most parts of England who would respect what he offered. Players on the receiving end of his insults and kicks wouldn’t - then again, he did get PFA POY and football writers poy in 2001 , a season And a bit after 1998/99

Inclined to agree with you, facts are facts , but Ballon Dor has made some questionable decisions eg regular presence of Beckham in the top 3

Randy Archer · 28-07-2020 12:12am

castletownman wrote: »

Well no other Irish soccer player featured in the Ballon D'or reckoning either, and while Paul McGrath holds god-like status both here and in Villa, I'd say he isn't as universally known as Keane either.

The fact is that no Irish player won an individual world award in soccer (unless you include Northern Irish international George Best in 1968), so you'd rank their greatness on the career they had. Seven Premier League titles, four as captain (no-one has captained their side to more)- only Neville, Scholes and Giggs have won more.

And Match of the Day ran a top 10 series during the lockdown, where he came out top as best ever captain of the Premier League era, and best foreign import.

This is a thread about the best Irish sports person ever, not the most universally acknowledged and successful Irish sports star on the world stage. Keane is definitely in the top bracket regardless. I wouldn't say Sonia O'Sullivan is as known world-wide in athletics either going by the parameters some people are using.

Those same pundits did a very same discussion poll a few years ago ,with the same conditions and neither Denis Irwin or Roy Keane were mentioned ! It’s on YouTube

Funny how the minds change once Keano got into punditry . That says more about the judges than Keane

Ian Wright (good lad) was cheering for him . Said nothing in the previous poll and discussion A few years ago neither did Linekar

Best captain, but wasn’t named in the team .

You wouldn’t say Sonia O’Sullivan “is as known world wide in athletics based on,..”

Wow. Seriously, were you even old enough to remember her?

She ran in THE MAJOR middle distance disciplines, with MULTIPLE European and World Titles, throw in some world majors in cross country in her youth ..... she was pretty big deal in the world of track and field from 1993-2000 . She broke a couple of world records in her distances , one of which she broke in 1994 in the 2000 me free and that record was only broken in 2017 !! Thanks for the laugh !

She was the hot hot hot favourite by world media (Who cover her sport) to win gold , in 1996;

She wasn’t a media whore like many of the Yanks .

Randy Archer · 28-07-2020 12:18am

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

If we are talking about sports stars standings within their own sports, then Sean Kelly would be up there. Kelly is considered a legend in World Cycling and I am sure many cycling fans would still rank him in the top 20/30 of all time. I dont think you can say that about Keane in football or Sonia in athletics.

Katie Taylor is a good shout, but her sport(gender wise) is still in its infancy.

Kelly’s, least as a one day and 7 day specialist would be toP 10 in Most cycLing experts books. He dominated the 1980s . He got his Grand Tour win in Spain , unlike any of the big named one day specialists of his time (granted Hainault n Laurent would decent one dayers too and Greg has his world medals ) and specially the hype around Sagan today

Few lads win the green jersey at TDF and come 4th in GC. Couldn’t see Sagan do that (I like Sagan btw)

Sonia was at the top of her class between 1994-1998 despite 1996 , actually

Kelly got popped twice for doping , that shouldn’t be forgotten

Randy Archer · 28-07-2020 12:22am

.anon. wrote: »

Yeah, 'British' in the same way as the Begorrah Bejaysus Craic Den in Boston is 'Irish'.

Eh, no, Boston is America and they really are plastic paddies. Belfast most certainly is politically and legally British

KaneToad · 28-07-2020 12:27am

If it's looking at someone who competed and excelled at the top on a world stage, it's slim pickings for Irish sports people.

Sonia is really our only one.

Katie is a fine competitor but is a big fish in a very small pond.

Likewise any GAA "stars".

Randy Archer · 28-07-2020 12:29am

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

Charles J. Haughey

Tour De France 1987

World Cup quarter-final 1990

So good that Mayo’s finest Tony Cascarino wondered aloud “who the fack is he” . Thankfully St Niall Quinn put him straight

Great call .

CJ was known to be a legend and hero in the Gaelic field too but was asked to make way for a few lads to make county .....it would have been unfair

I assume you are well aware from your careful study of scrap Saturday that the Haughey clan had a long list of heroic sporting achievements too. All they say to the days of the Romans .

Sheer CJ was a great sailor too, and a champion marksman with the rifle . Not to mention horse rider and (Irish) Grand National winning owner

A true sportsman and patron

Lol

Randy Archer · 28-07-2020 12:42am

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Maybe I missed it but haven't seen Barry McGuigan or Steve Collins mentioned.

Barry The Brit ?
Barry Eastwood played a blinder with that guff about being a saviour of the Peace . Wasn’t that the bloodiest period of the Troubles? Barry saved nothing . Barry was champ for a short time . His rep has taken a hammering over the years so ...

Collins ? It kinda all came late for him, granted he fought top fighters in America throughout the late 1980s and most of the 1990s and won pretty much all that there was to win at the Irish amateur championships but, maybe because he was away for so long people kinda forget ? Even during his champ days he only fought 2-3 times on the island (naturally wanted the pay day that was on offer in the bigger Manchester arena ) His Public personal issues after boxing Might have tainted him a little but boy the 1990s were fun when him and Wayne McCullough were world champs at the same time 1995

But yes, a two weight world champ .unbeaten at super mid .

Most successful professional boxers that Ireland produced

28-07-2020 12:58am

Wha ye talking about?

Michelle Smith was so manly that she pissed Power's whisky

The Tetrarch · 28-07-2020 5:28pm

Randy Archer wrote: »

Inclined to agree with you, facts are facts , but Ballon Dor has made some questionable decisions eg regular presence of Beckham in the top 3

Second in 1992 was Beckham's only appearance in the top three.

Fr D Maugire · 28-07-2020 6:09pm

Randy Archer wrote: »

Kelly’s, least as a one day and 7 day specialist would be toP 10 in Most cycLing experts books. He dominated the 1980s . He got his Grand Tour win in Spain , unlike any of the big named one day specialists of his time (granted Hainault n Laurent would decent one dayers too and Greg has his world medals ) and specially the hype around Sagan today

Few lads win the green jersey at TDF and come 4th in GC. Couldn’t see Sagan do that (I like Sagan btw)

Sonia was at the top of her class between 1994-1998 despite 1996 , actually

Kelly got popped twice for doping , that shouldn’t be forgotten

I think if you narrow it to one day races, then Kelly would be Top 5 ever, Merckx, Van Looy and then a toss up between De Vlaeminck, Gilbert and Kelly.

Would Sonia be top 5 female distance runner ever?, Diababa, Defar, Cheruyiot, Tulu, Szabo have more medals at Olympic/World level, then do you include champions at 800/1500m? How would you define distance running? 800m up to Marathon or only distances Sonia competed at?

One thing I didnt realise was how late female distance running was added to the olympics, was only in the 80s that the 3k, 10k and Marathon were added. First Worlds were only in 1983 and ever 4 years for the first 3 editions. Hard to define top female distance runners before then when there was so few opportunities for them. Gives an advantage to Sonia in being ranked high as there was so little history before her era.

EmmetSpiceland · 28-07-2020 6:28pm

Has to be Drico, Brian O’Driscoll, an incredible athlete with “skill”, and brains, to burn.

Honourable mention to Bernard Brogan as well.

eagle eye · 28-07-2020 6:28pm

Well if you are doing that then where do you rank Katie in amateur boxing, is there any doubt she's the GOAT? In professional boxing she is well on her way to attaining that title as well.

Truthvader · 28-07-2020 8:03pm

If you cheat your out

"Kelly got popped twice for doping , that shouldn’t be forgotten"

Bye bye Sean

Tell me how · 28-07-2020 8:08pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Has to be Drico, Brian O’Driscoll, an incredible athlete with “skill”, and brains, to burn.

Honourable mention to Bernard Brogan as well.

Didn't even make it on to Dublins Mount Rushmore on OTB show. Michael Carruth being favoured above him by Brian Kerr.

Would disagree with Kerr on that one, but not sure if I would go all the way to saying he was Irelands best sports person ever.

yosser hughes · 28-07-2020 8:11pm

Has Eoin Morgan been mentioned yet?
Cricket is a massive sport, in the top 10 of most popular participation sports in the world, and he's got to the very top.

I think I know what the reaction will be but he's worth a mention, that's all.

Plasandrunt · 28-07-2020 9:16pm

Tony McCoy easily

28-07-2020 9:32pm

racin' shyte is a minority interest in fairness

afro man · 28-07-2020 9:38pm

The Tetrarch wrote: »

Wrong. That is a weak stance to support the claim that Keane was world class.
I put up a few players that would be considered great midfielders.

A search on the net for great midfielders gives these ten:
Xavi; Zidane; Zico; Charlton; Cruyff; Rijkaard; Zizinho; Laudrup; Maradona; Goggs.

And a list of the top 50 midfielders in the world.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1572011-50-greatest-midfielders-in-the-history-of-world-football

Another list gives:
Arturo Vidal; David Silva; Yaya Toure; Bastien Schweinsteiger; Paul Pogba; Iniesta; Eden Hazard; Luka Modric; Cesc Fabregas; Arjen Robben

The three lists have a common factor - no Roy Keane.

Tetrach.. Don't think any off the lads above qualify as irish sportsmen for this thread

Higgins5473 · 28-07-2020 9:39pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Didn't even make it on to Dublins Mount Rushmore on OTB show.

That’s totally meaningless in fairness. It’s as good an endorsement from Louis Walsh on whatever pop talent reality sh*te he did.

afro man · 28-07-2020 9:43pm

Randy Archer wrote: »

Eh, no, Boston is America and they really are plastic paddies. Belfast most certainly is politically and legally British

Belfast is on the island of ireland.. Under British control but for me anybody born in six counties is irish whether they like it it not..

Truthvader · 28-07-2020 10:52pm

afro man wrote: »

Belfast is on the island of ireland.. Under British control but for me anybody born in six counties is irish whether they like it it not..

Even though a majority of the people who actually live there want to be British. But sure its whatever you think it is

Water John · 28-07-2020 11:11pm

NI and its citizens are in reality both Irish and GB. Some sports are All Ireland also. Recognise the reality.

Aongus Von Bismarck · 28-07-2020 11:42pm

I haven't read the thread, but I presume there's broad agreement that Pádraig Harrington is the most successful sports person ever from Ireland? To win one golf major is an achievement, but to win back-to-back British Opens is extraordinary.

Water John · 28-07-2020 11:46pm

He gets honourable mention but seems the main argument lies between a man and woman from Cork, Sonia and Roy.

eagle eye · 29-07-2020 1:06am

yosser hughes wrote:

Has Eoin Morgan been mentioned yet? Cricket is a massive sport, in the top 10 of most popular participation sports in the world, and he's got to the very top.

He plays for the Brits, doesn't count.

Plasandrunt · 29-07-2020 2:14am

Plasandrunt wrote: »

Tony McCoy easily

Sorry

It's Sir Anthony McCoy

The Champ.

The sport will never see his likes again.

Oranage2 · 29-07-2020 4:07am

It's definitely McGregor, he's taken over Keane and Harrington as our most famous sport star, he's also our richest sportsman. Northern Irish people who identify as British aren't Irish to me.

In 10 years his Twitter crap and thuggery will be forgotten and he'll be recognized as our greatest Worldwide without a doubt.

ChosenWong · 29-07-2020 4:15am

George Best Soccer Superstar

Dtp1979 · 29-07-2020 8:05am

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

I think if you narrow it to one day races, then Kelly would be Top 5 ever, Merckx, Van Looy and then a toss up between De Vlaeminck, Gilbert and Kelly.

Would Sonia be top 5 female distance runner ever?, Diababa, Defar, Cheruyiot, Tulu, Szabo have more medals at Olympic/World level, then do you include champions at 800/1500m? How would you define distance running? 800m up to Marathon or only distances Sonia competed at?

One thing I didnt realise was how late female distance running was added to the olympics, was only in the 80s that the 3k, 10k and Marathon were added. First Worlds were only in 1983 and ever 4 years for the first 3 editions. Hard to define top female distance runners before then when there was so few opportunities for them. Gives an advantage to Sonia in being ranked high as there was so little history before her era.

I don’t know why, but All I could hear was jimmy magees voice when reading this

The Tetrarch · 29-07-2020 10:52am

afro man wrote: »

Tetrach.. Don't think any off the lads above qualify as irish sportsmen for this thread

The above comment indicates you did not read the thread.

These are the posts:
.....................................................................................
Originally Posted by Pawwed Rig
Roy Keane is not even the best footballer. In this order
1. Liam Brady
2. Paul McGrath
3. John Giles
4. Roy Keane
.....................................................................................
Originally Posted by Greyfox
Your having a laugh, the other 3 are only legends by Irish Standards. Keane is a legend by world standards, he's one of the best players to ever play in English football.
....................................................................................

afro man
My posts refuted the claim by Greyfox that Roy Keane was "a legend by world standards".
When Keane played the Ballon d'Or only covered European players, and Keane was not a legend by European standards, and of course also not a legend by world standards.
In the Ballon d'Or Roy Keane was 6th in 1999 (36 votes), 27th in 2000 (1 vote). He did not feature in any other years.

Yes, the players I mentioned, world class midfielders, were not Irish sportsmen, but if a poster claims an Irish sportsman was "a legend by world standards" then he must be compared to world players.

nedkelly123 · 29-07-2020 10:55am

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Michelle Smith de Bruin

did she not dissolve in a pool ?

eagle eye · 29-07-2020 10:57am

The Tetrarch wrote:

Yes, the players I mentioned, world class midfielders, were not Irish sportsmen, but if a poster claims an Irish sportsman was "a legend by world standards" then he must be compared to world players.

He was a great player by world standards for soccer fans but he never seperated himself from others around him. Patrick Viera was considered every bit as good as him

Why is there ever a debate about who was the best Irish Sports person ever? *READ OP*

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Why is there ever a debate about who was the best Irish Sports person ever? READ OP