Why is there ever a debate about who was the best Irish Sports person ever? *READ OP*

py2006

Hard not to look passed this young lady:

ExMachina1000

sxt wrote: »

Roy Keane

There is no other Irish person close. Who ever is second, is a distant second

He is the most influential sports person in Irish sporting History, and in British football history

Any objections?

O Driscoll or O Connell would be right up there. Ireland will never see a goal scorer like Robbie Keane again either but Roy Keane is the top of the charts

tritriagain

Roy Keane was immense. A pure winner. I remember before Clive Woodward brought his English team to win the world cup he was finding it difficult to decide on his scrum half. He was asked in an interview if he could have any scrum half in the world who would he pick. He answered Roy Keane. A true testament to his determination and ferocity.

DrGreenThumb82

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Also, was English.

Jack Charlton was Irish. A proud honourary Irishman. It made his Englishness null and void.

YFlyer

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

O Driscoll or O Connell would be right up there. Ireland will never see a goal scorer like Robbie Keane again either but Roy Keane is the top of the charts

Troy Parrot will be the next goal machine.

lawrencesummers

tritriagain wrote: »

Hardly a stupid argument .the soccer world cup has been won by 5 different teams the last 5 times. You mightn't agree with me but that doesn't make it stupid.

When you settle on the positioning of the goalposts let me know.

lawrencesummers

py2006 wrote: »

Hard not to look passed this young lady:

Thats the purpose of a black background alright.

US2

Ducksy Walsh is no question about it

tritriagain

lawrencesummers wrote: »

When you settle on the positioning of the goalposts let me know.

It must be great to have such superior intelligence.thanks for setting me straight.

Feisar

py2006 wrote: »

Hard not to look passed this young lady:

The problem here is the same as the reason Rugby get's put down, lack of participation. Women's boxing is a niche sport.

To actually calculate the best one would need to weigh achievement vs elite participation somehow and also factor in team player vs individual.

It's all moot though. I doubt Seam Kelly wonders "am I the greatest Irish sports person ever".

Winners think about winning, losers think about winners.

Edgware

py2006 wrote: »

Hard not to look passed this young lady:

It is. What was the level of competition like?

Edgware

DrGreenThumb82 wrote: »

Jack Charlton was Irish. A proud honourary Irishman. It made his Englishness null and void.

Codswallop. He did a good job, gave us great days, got paid and when the results went bad the "greatest supporters in the world" turned on him.
At least it gave us a chance to abuse another of our heroes Stan

Water John

There has been negative references here by a few on Sonia taking a year out and having a child. It is generally accepted that women actually run better after having a child.

Feisar

Water John wrote: »

There has been negative references here by a few on Sonia taking a year out and having a child. It is generally accepted that women actually run better after having a child.

I read/heard somewhere that the three Chinese that beat her were impregnated at some stage during the training and babies aborted. So they got the benefits with non of the drawbacks. I cannot provide a source it's donkeys since I read/heard it.

castletownman

I would discredit O'Driscoll and O'Connell entirely because as captains, and the apparent reverance that holds in rugby, they have a black mark over them for Ireland's constant under-performance at the World Cup.

If they were as great leaders as they are claimed to be, they would have summoned a big knock-out win out of somewhere. In fact, Roy Keane's performances in the qualifiers for the 2002 World Cup trumps anything BOD and POC did for Ireland in terms of performing on the grand stage.

Greats in their sport, but not among Ireland's best ever. In my opinion, of course.

DrGreenThumb82

Edgware wrote: »

Codswallop. He did a good job, gave us great days, got paid and when the results went bad the "greatest supporters in the world" turned on him.
At least it gave us a chance to abuse another of our heroes Stan

Who is Stan? Collymore? Awful character. Did you like him in Basic Instinct 2?

Swamp_Cat

The dedicated junior GAA player who gives all for as long as possible before moving to coaching or refereeing & on to other necessary duties around the pitch. These are Ireland's greatest sportsmen. The GAA being the worlds greatest sporting organization. IMHO

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Water John wrote: »

There has been negative references here by a few on Sonia taking a year out and having a child. It is generally accepted that women actually run better after having a child.

lol...

If you believe that, you'll believe quite literally anything I'd imagine! :pac:

She couldn't train for at least 9 months, while her rivals were training their ar$es off for the olympics... this was at a crucial time in her career, when she had a serious chance at winning gold in those games.

This shows a lack of commitment to her sport at what should have been the peak of her career. There is no way anyone is convincing me, that you get yourself pregnant the year before the olympics as a strategy for running faster in those games! Nonsense!

Edgware

DrGreenThumb82 wrote: »

Who is Stan? Collymore? Awful character. Did you like him in Basic Instinct 2?

Staunton. Got the job after Kerr. Called Stan by Jack in mistake for some North East character. A bit like him calling Liam Brady Ian after the Moors Murderer

partyguinness

Truthvader wrote: »

Why? because Lord Keane had an entitlement to special private attention? He was meant to be in a team - though he never understood that.

Me me me all the way. Mick McCarthy has more class and decency in his little finger than Keane. Plus he gave 100% as a player every time. When the time came Roy gave 0%. Walked his dog.

Because it is McCarthy's job to manage. Look up the definition.

Let's pretend you are in the workplace and your boss has a problem with you. Does your boss:-

a. Call you into your office and have speak to you in private, or
b. Call a meeting of the entire workforce and berate you in front of your colleagues?

I am not saying Keane was right re the interview but McCarthy had a choice to make and he made a bad choice.

He called that meeting because:

a. He didnt have the balls to do it in private.

Oh and remember Keane actually offered to go to McCarthy's room and bury the hachet in private (verified by others) and McCarthy wouldnt have it. His mind was made up Keane was out and Keane went fine "Fcuk you too". Mccarthy didnt have the balls to look Keane in the eye.

b. He wanted to make an example of Keane in front of everyone

McCarthy wanted to provoke a reaction or was incredibly stupid if he didnt see it coming. I mean really, when McCarthy called that meeting in froint of the entire squad and staff what did he expect?

Truthvader

partyguinness wrote: »

Because it is McCarthy's job to manage. Look up the definition.

Let's pretend you are in the workplace and your boss has a problem with you. Does your boss:-

a. Call you into your office and have speak to you in private, or
b. Call a meeting of the entire workforce and berate you in front of your colleagues?

I am not saying Keane was right re the interview but McCarthy had a choice to make and he made a bad choice.

He called that meeting because:

a. He didnt have the balls to do it in private.

Oh and remember Keane actually offered to go to McCarthy's room and bury the hachet in private (verified by others) and McCarthy wouldnt have it. His mind was made up Keane was out and Keane went fine "Fcuk you too". Mccarthy didnt have the balls to look Keane in the eye.

b. He wanted to make an example of Keane in front of everyone

McCarthy wanted to provoke a reaction or was incredibly stupid if he didnt see it coming. I mean really, when McCarthy called that meeting in froint of the entire squad and staff what did he expect?

Loyalty to the team instead of a bitch hissy fit

McGinniesta

sxt wrote: »

Roy Keane

There is no other Irish person close. Who ever is second, is a distant second

He is the most influential sports person in Irish sporting History, and in British football history

Any objections?

Yes. Other people have opinions that don't match yours.

doggerland

I think sports people from more than 20 years ago, don't count.

People harp on about Christy Ring, let's be honest with todays training and effort, he'd never come close to matching any decent player from a top team. Not his fault.

partyguinness

Truthvader wrote: »

Loyalty to the team instead of a bitch hissy fit

You are evading my question and the elephant in the room: McCarthy should have had it out with Keane in private. That team meeting was unnecessary. McCarthy could have just ignored it for the sake of peace and quiet and focus on the job in hand. But no. He called a full on team meeting and waved the newspaper in the air.

Regardless of anyone's view of Keane that was a bad management.

They had a slagging match and got it off their chest. Big deal. It was a room of fully grown men- professional footballers who see all sorts of fights between team mates in the dressing room and training pitch.

So McCarthy decided "I am going to let my captain and best player go home because he hurt my feelings."

As I said, Keane went to meet McCarthy in his room and he was stopped in the corridoor and told McCarthy had made up his mind.

That does not come under my defintion of "walking out on the team".

As I said, McCarthy didn't have the balls to meet Keane head on in private and went for the safety in numbers herd mentality by surrounding himself with the rest of the squad- he felt safer.

Like the school bully who is all mouth in front of an audience but a very quiet boy in private.

crossman47

partyguinness wrote: »

You are evading my question and the elephant in the room: McCarthy should have had it out with Keane in private. That team meeting was unnecessary. McCarthy could have just ignored it for the sake of peace and quiet and focus on the job in hand. But no. He called a full on team meeting and waved the newspaper in the air.

Regardless of anyone's view of Keane that was a bad management.

They had a slagging match and got it off their chest. Big deal. It was a room of fully grown men- professional footballers who see all sorts of fights between team mates in the dressing room and training pitch.

So McCarthy decided "I am going to let my captain and best player go home because he hurt my feelings."

As I said, Keane went to meet McCarthy in his room and he was stopped in the corridoor and told McCarthy had made up his mind.

That is not come under my defintion of "walking out on the team".

As I said, McCarthy didn't have the balls to meet Keane head on in private and went for the safety in numbers herd mentality by surrounding himself with the rest of the squad- he felt safer.

Like the school bully who is all mouth in front of an audience but a very quiet boy in private.

I was basically on McCarthys side because Keane was clearly so difficult to deal with. However a good manager must overcome that. Knowing Keane, he should have met him privately in advance and arranged for him to skip Saipan.

tritriagain

I remember at the time there was a newspaper article about ordinary peoples opinions about what happened in Saipan. The one that made the most sense to me was from a night club owner who said that if his best bar man threw a hissy fit on new years Eve , his busiest night of the year, he would leave it go until the night was over.. and give him a bollocking the next day. McCarthy should have waited til after wc and then said whatever was on his mind. A very poor management decision , which was pre-planned, irrespective of Keane's actions.

partyguinness

crossman47 wrote: »

I was basically on McCarthys side because Keane was clearly so difficult to deal with. However a good manager must overcome that. Knowing Keane, he should have met him privately in advance and arranged for him to skip Saipan.

I like McCarthy but it really was not a good decision to call that meeting. As you said Keane and himself had a tense relationship already. What was McCarthy hoping to achieve I have no idea.

McCarthy
"Jaysus have you seen this? Keane fcking mouthing of. I am pissed off."
Assistant:
"Best ignore it boss. You know what he is like. Let's just get on with the job. Slag him off in your book later."
McCarthy:
"I know what would be great idea. I realise we are at the WC and **** is getting serious so I am going to call a squad meeting. I am going to put our hero on the spot in front of everyone and ask him to explain himself."
Assistant:
"Are you sure boss? I don't think he will react well. This is not some newbie. Whether you like it or not Keane is our captain, talisman and one of the most respected players in world football. He is prickly and combustible even at the best of times never mind the fact he hates your guts. For peace and quiet just let it lie or have a word with him in private."
McCarthy:
"Meet him in private? Eff that...I only brought a certain amount of underpants. No. I need to stamp my authority and put the fecker in his place. Once I have sufficiently embarrassed him in front of the entire squad he will be eating out of my hand. Sure what's the worst that could happen."
Assistant:
"Ok. You're the boss."

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

McCarthy's decision to challenge Keane in front of the entire squad (even the young lads), begs the question about why he even picked Keane as his captain in the first place. They never had a strong relationship that you need to have with your captain - even Ferguson had a pretty solid working relationship with Keane right up until the end when they fell out.

He clearly didn't like Keane going back to when they played together under Charlton. So why pick him as your captain? He must have felt under pressure to give it to him, because he was the star Man Utd player... but this again shows poor leadership from McCarthy, because he should have had the balls to pick someone who he had a better working relationship with.

partyguinness

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

McCarthy's decision to challenge Keane in front of the entire squad (even the young lads), begs the question about why he even picked Keane as his captain in the first place. They never had a strong relationship that you need to have with your captain - even Ferguson had a pretty solid working relationship with Keane right up until the end when they fell out.

He clearly didn't like Keane going back to when they played together under Charlton. So why pick him as your captain? He must have felt under pressure to give it to him, because he was the star Man Utd player... but this again shows poor leadership from McCarthy, because he should have had the balls to pick someone who he had a better working relationship with.

Keane's leadership and captain qualities lay out on the pitch where ultimately it mattered. I think any other player would have been embarrassed to captain the team.

Personally I wouldn't necessarily criticse McCarthy for that. TBH it would have been laughable not to give Keane the captaincy. Once he gave it him from the outset after Townsend retired he couldnt just take it off him after a few years because their relationship was cold.

Keane was captaining the team of players rather than McCarthy himself. In fact not having Keane as captain would have been seen as a blatant insult by McCarthy. Keane's role was to do the business on the pitch and the players were fully committed to Keane.

eagle eye

doggerland wrote:

I think sports people from more than 20 years ago, don't count.
People harp on about Christy Ring, let's be honest with todays training and effort, he'd never come close to matching any decent player from a top team. Not his fault.

A person from many years ago can still be the greatest sportsperson. They may have been more successful in their era.

Just because training methods change, it doesn't mean that a person from another era can't be considered. Comparing people from different eras as regards fitness is ridiculous. Comparing their achievements is fair.