Random EV thoughts.....

zg3409 · 23-08-2019 8:37am

charlieIRL wrote: »

Not sure if I asked this before but is it possible to use a public charger before you get your swipe card to start / stop the chargers? (I.e e-card or EasyGo card)

Easygo can be started with their android (only) app, or via the website. They also have their own fob. The fob or RFID card needs to be easygo. There is talk of full interoperability with esb cards and vice versa in the future, possibly next year, but for now easygo only.

Esb recommend only using their own cards. Apparently some bank cards can cause the chargers to go faulty, so they claim. There are some universal European/UK roaming cards that work on esb and long term should work when payment is required. Similar for ionity, they gave an app, and some roaming fobs work, but payment is needed either way. Long term the market is going towards touch to pay debit or credit cards with no account, although that may require hardware changes to the existing chargers. Esb in UK have bolted on credit card readers.

Silent Running · 23-08-2019 9:00am

zg3409 wrote: »

Easygo can be started with their android (only) app, or via the website. They also have their own fob. The fob or RFID card needs to be easygo. There is talk of full interoperability with esb cards and vice versa in the future, possibly next year, but for now easygo only.

Esb recommend only using their own cards. Apparently some bank cards can cause the chargers to go faulty, so they claim. There are some universal European/UK roaming cards that work on esb and long term should work when payment is required. Similar for ionity, they gave an app, and some roaming fobs work, but payment is needed either way. Long term the market is going towards touch to pay debit or credit cards with no account, although that may require hardware changes to the existing chargers. Esb in UK have bolted on credit card readers.

I noticed that the newer triple head chargers have a square cutout near the card swipe. It's sealed up for the moment, but it's the perfect size for a card reader.

Mickeroo · 23-08-2019 9:08am

You can use the Charge My EV app on your phone to stop and start the ESB chargers if you don't have a card and don't want to ring them.

Black_Knight · 25-08-2019 9:47pm

Never knew range rover did a phev. Spotted one (along side a 330e) charging at a slow charger in dungarvan. Luckily dungarvan has 2 slow chargers otherwise if be a long time waiting (BMW was at least 2 hours that I know of at the slow charger).

kanuseeme · 25-08-2019 9:52pm

check the price of them....

Black_Knight · 25-08-2019 11:31pm

kanuseeme wrote: »

check the price of them....

No wonder he was getting some free fuel in. Who would buy that when there's an e-pace or e-tron for similar money!?

ELM327 · 26-08-2019 9:21am

Black_Knight wrote: »

No wonder he was getting some free fuel in. Who would buy that when there's an e-pace or e-tron for similar money!?

Someone I know who has a new range rover every 18 months to 2 years
Wouldnt consider buying anything else. He told me he'd buy a BEV range rover if it existed but he's considering the phev model next time.

Black_Knight · 26-08-2019 7:55pm

Stolen from Reddit, but interesting to have a side by side comparison. At least you'd expect it to be relative to itself.

https://pushevs.com/electric-car-range-efficiency-epa/

Didn't think the Kona Vs eNiro would be so different.

Jag and Audi don't compare well for efficiency against the model X (I'd class them all the same kinda vehicle in EV world ... Big, luxury).

McGiver · 27-08-2019 8:52am

Black_Knight wrote: »

Stolen from Reddit, but interesting to have a side by side comparison. At least you'd expect it to be relative to itself.

https://pushevs.com/electric-car-range-efficiency-epa/

Didn't think the Kona Vs eNiro would be so different.

Jag and Audi don't compare well for efficiency against the model X (I'd class them all the same kinda vehicle in EV world ... Big, luxury).

What temperature are those figures for? Seems very high to me, definitely not Irish summer half the year (say more than 15 C).

ELM327 · 27-08-2019 9:19am

McGiver wrote: »

What temperature are those figures for? Seems very high to me, definitely not Irish summer half the year (say more than 15 C).

Seems pretty realistic looking at Ioniq values, if anything a little conservative

Black_Knight · 28-08-2019 8:40pm

Neat video of making an i3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uwrpDhs2gI

KCross · 29-08-2019 2:04pm

It looks like there will be alot of PHEV's revealed at Frankfurt motor show!

https://www.carsuk.net/seat-tarraco-fr-suv-gets-a-plug-in-hybrid-powertrain-seats-first-phev/

https://www.carsuk.net/new-peugeot-3008-suv-gt-hybrid4-gets-297bhp-4wd-and-29g-km-emissions/

What struck me seeing these articles is that there isnt really that many EV's to choose from in the SUV market and its the style that people want. These two are coming in at really low CO2 rates, 13kWh+ batteries, 50km EV range and decent performance.... I can see alot of people choosing these over smaller hatchback BEV's.

unkel · 29-08-2019 2:58pm

Seat Terraco is the same platform as the Skoda Kodiaq isn't it? I see a lot of those around here. Most of them now petrol. The extra subsidy on a PHEV and the VRT reduction and the lower tax plus nearly free charger and then most journeys on dirt cheap electricity will offset a good bit of the extra cost of the PHEV over the petrol, probably save money over the years. So I'd say that car will be very popular here indeed.

KCross · 29-08-2019 3:23pm

unkel wrote: »

The extra subsidy on a PHEV and the VRT reduction ...

I'd bet the government will mess with both of those incentives in the upcoming budget. As recommedned in the climate action report I'd say they will remove the subsidy entirely for hybrids (hitting Toyota the most) but I think they will also start a reduction of the incentives for PHEV's.

Incentives have already been completely removed in the UK late last year for PHEV's and we seem to follow them for these kind of things... except for Brexit I suppose!

unkel · 29-08-2019 3:34pm

KCross wrote: »

I'd bet the government will mess with both of those incentives in the upcoming budget. As recommedned in the climate action report I'd say they will remove the subsidy entirely for hybrids (hitting Toyota the most) but I think they will also start a reduction of the incentives for PHEV's.

Agreed. Grants for hybrids are completely outdated now. All grants even for PHEV and BEV need to be carefully assessed so as not to let them go entirely to the manufacturers.

KCross · 29-08-2019 3:53pm

unkel wrote: »

All grants even for PHEV and BEV need to be carefully assessed so as not to let them go entirely to the manufacturers.

How do you do that though? Grants are usually a disaster unless you can keep the supplier out of the equation. Anything the SEAI administer is a balls up as far as I can see as they wrap it up in knots with paperwork and registered installers who see it as an opportunity to charge more "because Im registered"!

Something through your tax returns (like they do in the US) might be a better approach?

unkel · 29-08-2019 4:04pm

KCross wrote: »

Something through your tax returns (like they do in the US) might be a better approach?

Probably a better system alright. See if Hyundai will sell any €50k base spec Kona EV then

September1 · 29-08-2019 4:12pm

I think just reduce road tax by 1k annual for first 10 years of car ownership instead of current grants and discounts. It would mean that for first 10 years you will be paid when obtaining new tax disc. It would also create incentive to keep cars longer on road, which I think is not bad side effect. Other nice side effect is that grants would ensure cars reduce pollution in Ireland.

KCross · 29-08-2019 4:15pm

September1 wrote: »

I think just reduce road tax by 1k annual for first 10 years of car ownership instead of current grants and discounts. It would mean that for first 10 years you will be paid when obtaining new tax disc. It would also create incentive to keep cars longer on road, which I think is not bad side effect. Other nice side effect is that grants would ensure cars reduce pollution in Ireland.

That would make for interesting negotiation during second hand sale.... "no no no, i insist, i'll tax it for ya"!

McGiver · 30-08-2019 11:21pm

September1 wrote: »

I think just reduce road tax by 1k annual for first 10 years of car ownership instead of current grants and discounts. It would mean that for first 10 years you will be paid when obtaining new tax disc. It would also create incentive to keep cars longer on road, which I think is not bad side effect. Other nice side effect is that grants would ensure cars reduce pollution in Ireland.

.
Good idea but complicated. And that's not ambitious enough. Just follow Norway - Eliminate subsidies going to dealers/car makers, reduce motor tax to zero, reduce registration tax to zero, introduce VAT exemption.

Motor tax - zero for EVs, immediately and indefinitely until we get critical mass of EVs on the road while simultaneously increasing motor tax for ICE based on CO2, NOx and PM. Diesel engine which is the most ubiquitous yet the most polluting piece of technology would get hit hard and quickly eliminated, people would swap to petrol first, hybrid second and finally EVs.

Basing motor tax on CO2 is totally wrong as is subsidies givens away to dealers.

redcup342 · 31-08-2019 9:31am

September1 wrote: »

I think just reduce road tax by 1k annual for first 10 years of car ownership instead of current grants and discounts. It would mean that for first 10 years you will be paid when obtaining new tax disc. It would also create incentive to keep cars longer on road, which I think is not bad side effect. Other nice side effect is that grants would ensure cars reduce pollution in Ireland.

No such thing as Road Tax

KCross · 31-08-2019 10:50pm

These pair of 150kW high power chargers got installed recently near Heathrow airport by BP who are just started a program of rolling them out across the UK at their stations where they will also support CHAdeMO upto 200A (80kW) although these initial two are limited to 50kW on CHAdeMO.

https://twitter.com/BP_UK/status/1167450833941741568

There certainly is alot more civil work involved under the rapids than you'd expect and those cables were pretty thick!

unkel · 31-08-2019 11:04pm

KCross wrote: »

those cables were pretty thick!

I wonder what input voltage is fed into these chargers like the Ionity ones that can output 500A @800V (>350kW)?

Silent Running · 01-09-2019 7:59am

KCross wrote: »

These pair of 150kW high power chargers got installed recently near Heathrow airport by BP who are just started a program of rolling them out across the UK at their stations where they will also support CHAdeMO upto 200A (80kW) although these initial two are limited to 50kW on CHAdeMO.

There certainly is alot more civil work involved under the rapids than you'd expect and those cables were pretty thick!

BP now own the Polar network too. I wonder why they don't re-brand the whole thing.

dloob · 02-09-2019 11:11pm

Interesting experience at the weekend, took my 120Ah i3S up to Dublin from Galway and back again on Saturday.
The wind had a huge effect on the range.
It was a pretty breezy morning so there was a strong tail wind on the way up with a somewhat lighter head wind when heading back down in the evening.
I charged at the kinnegad plaza on the way up and back and made a note of the percentage used.
I'm not far from the motorway start in Galway so most of the 145km to Kinnegad was at 120km using the cruise control.
It was pretty obvious on the way up that the tail wind was a great help, consumption at 120kmh was only 19kwh/100km instead of the low 20s.
It slowly crept up to 19.9 as we moved further east and the wind decreased.
Arrived in Kinnegad having used 73%
Charged up there again on the way back later that evening but the this time the 145km back to home took 88%!
That was a much bigger difference than I expected, 15%!
Looking at the figures 100% range with the wind would have been 198km and against it 164km, a 34km difference.

I wonder why the wind doesn't seem to have such a noticeable effect on ICE car range?

Black_Knight · 02-09-2019 11:53pm

dloob wrote: »

I wonder why the wind doesn't seem to have such a noticeable effect on ICE car range?

Speakev forum kinda answered this, or at least gave some potential reasoning.

Electric motor is much more efficient than an ICE in terms of how much energy contained in the "fuel" is converted into the torque that moves the car. As a result, anything that increase the amount of the needed torque will have a disproportionately greater effect on the more efficient design. This means the rain impacts both an EV and an ICE, but disproportionately more the EV, whilst the ICE "hides" that additional requirement in its overall inefficiency.

I buy that, until I wonder is the additional power required to generate that torque not also generated inefficiently in ICE, thus being just as wasteful??

redcup342 · 03-09-2019 12:00pm

dloob wrote: »

Interesting experience at the weekend, took my 120Ah i3S up to Dublin from Galway and back again on Saturday.
The wind had a huge effect on the range.
It was a pretty breezy morning so there was a strong tail wind on the way up with a somewhat lighter head wind when heading back down in the evening.
I charged at the kinnegad plaza on the way up and back and made a note of the percentage used.
I'm not far from the motorway start in Galway so most of the 145km to Kinnegad was at 120km using the cruise control.
It was pretty obvious on the way up that the tail wind was a great help, consumption at 120kmh was only 19kwh/100km instead of the low 20s.
It slowly crept up to 19.9 as we moved further east and the wind decreased.
Arrived in Kinnegad having used 73%
Charged up there again on the way back later that evening but the this time the 145km back to home took 88%!
That was a much bigger difference than I expected, 15%!
Looking at the figures 100% range with the wind would have been 198km and against it 164km, a 34km difference.

I wonder why the wind doesn't seem to have such a noticeable effect on ICE car range?

I don't think anyone would monitor their petrol/diesel consumption so closely either

so that could also be part of it.

unkel · 03-09-2019 1:36pm

dloob wrote: »

I wonder why the wind doesn't seem to have such a noticeable effect on ICE car range?

Because ICE has 10 times as much energy on board compared to an EV. A bit more rain / cold / wind or driving a bit faster on the motorway doesn't make an awful lot of difference

In an EV however, most range calculations are almost best case scenario. Bit faster, but of head wind, bit colder and all of a sudden you drop 20%-30% in range or more

Water John · 03-09-2019 1:40pm

Unkel is correct, One can compare an ICE to an open fireplace and an EV is a stove.

Mike9832 · 04-09-2019 4:18pm

Porsche Taycan

What a car

93kWh
0-200 9.8secs
450km range
0-160-0 10.0 secs
270kW charging

Putting a deposit on this

https://www.evspecifications.com/en/news/536b182

JPA · 04-09-2019 4:29pm

You'll have to smash the piggy bank for that one.

ELM327 · 04-09-2019 4:44pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

Porsche Taycan

What a car

93kWh
0-200 9.8secs
450km range
0-160-0 10.0 secs
270kW charging

Putting a deposit on this

https://www.evspecifications.com/en/news/536b182

Pretty crap for 800v? Only 337a.

Model 3 peak (250kW) charges at much higher amperage.

tom_tarbucket · 04-09-2019 6:30pm

Will the introduction of paying for public charging put people off buying electric cars?

I don’t mean people who already have one (as they seem to be for it). I mean the standard joe soap.

Shefwedfan · 04-09-2019 6:40pm

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Will the introduction of paying for public charging put people off buying electric cars?

I don’t mean people who already have one (as they seem to be for it). I mean the standard joe soap.

No....it will still be cheaper than diesel/petrol. Plus 90% of people wont need to use charge points on a daily basis.....

Black_Knight · 04-09-2019 7:10pm

JPA wrote: »

You'll have to smash the piggy bank for that one.

I believe the loan of a JCB is the preferred method.

krissovo · 04-09-2019 7:12pm

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Will the introduction of paying for public charging put people off buying electric cars?

It should have the opposite effect as taxi drivers with 2 Leaf’s, tight arses who hog the charge points squeezing every drop of juice out of the charger & PHEV’s should free up them up to perform their intended function of a quick charge.

redcup342 · 04-09-2019 7:17pm

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Will the introduction of paying for public charging put people off buying electric cars?

I don’t mean people who already have one (as they seem to be for it). I mean the standard joe soap.

Nope, it's already pay charging in Holland and everyone still wants to go electric, for many reasons other than just cost.

Paid charging and enforcing parking rules actually stops people from taking the pi%%

Black_Knight · 04-09-2019 7:24pm

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Will the introduction of paying for public charging put people off buying electric cars?

Unlikely. It's sure to be spun that way in the media, just as "queuing for an hour at the fast charger" is the current excuse for why Ireland isn't ready for EVs. There's always some fanatical reason why not to buy an EV, when in reality a home owner will just charge at home.

Apartment and terrace owners have my sympathy though. Charges will mean they won't save half as much as those who charge at home, and they'll have no convenience factor either, quite the opposite.

tom_tarbucket · 04-09-2019 7:30pm

Any Idea as to when paying for public charging will actually be live here?

Wonder what will the coating be like. Fast charge V standard charge etc.

Shefwedfan · 04-09-2019 7:34pm

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Any Idea as to when paying for public charging will actually be live here?

Wonder what will the coating be like. Fast charge V standard charge etc.

Standard charging will be free for a while

As discussed above, most people won’t move to electric because of the charging system....it is full of tight arses who would prefer to sit in a car for 30-60 mins to save a euro instead of charging at home

Once they have to pay for it then it will free up the system for the actual people that need it

Also a fine for overstays would be great as people fecking off for 3 hours is a huge problem at fast chargers as well

babybuilder · 04-09-2019 7:41pm

The charging infrastructure is crap if your travelling outside the car's range. Most of the time I've been caught going to Dublin has been faulty chargers. Paying for charging is ok as long as they increase the number of charge points.

tom_tarbucket · 04-09-2019 8:06pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Standard charging will be free for a while

As discussed above, most people won’t move to electric because of the charging system....it is full of tight arses who would prefer to sit in a car for 30-60 mins to save a euro instead of charging at home

Once they have to pay for it then it will free up the system for the actual people that need it

Also a fine for overstays would be great as people fecking off for 3 hours is a huge problem at fast chargers as well

As in the 22kw be free?
A while being a few months is it?

Shefwedfan · 04-09-2019 9:37pm

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

As in the 22kw be free?
A while being a few months is it?

I think next year, more people will know. I dont use the system at all....

McGiver · 05-09-2019 1:52am

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Will the introduction of paying for public charging put people off buying electric cars?

I don’t mean people who already have one (as they seem to be for it). I mean the standard joe soap.

Agree with the other replies and I'd also like to stress that free public charging infrastructure is an anomaly AFAIK, it's not normal anywhere in Europe to my knowledge.

Few countries I'm acquainted with, with both less and more developed EV markets, have vast majority of their chargers privately owned and paid. Not publicl/government owned and free.

The whole free public charging infrastructure in Ireland is very unusual and almost a sort of a Socialist experiment (which mostly failed based on the consensus in the community).

redcup342 · 05-09-2019 7:18am

McGiver wrote: »

Agree with the other replies and I'd also like to stress that free public charging infrastructure is an anomaly AFAIK, it's not normal anywhere in Europe to my knowledge.

Few countries I'm acquainted with, with both less and more developed EV markets, have vast majority of their chargers privately owned and paid. Not publicl/government owned and free.

The whole free public charging infrastructure in Ireland is very unusual and almost a sort of a Socialist experiment (which mostly failed based on the consensus in the community).

There are free Public Chargers all Germany, Charging at work is Tax free guaranteed up until 2030.

I managed to drive from the Western border of Germany all the way to the Czech Republic for 7 euros, that 7 euros was for an Ionity Rapid Charger as I was a bit afraid of not being able to find a charging point in Czech, in the end I didn't need it as they were all free as well.

tom_tarbucket · 05-09-2019 7:28am

The “rapidgate” phrase I hear from time to time. What exact year leaf is this referring to?

Is it the latest model with the 40kwh battery?

krissovo · 05-09-2019 7:48am

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

The “rapidgate” phrase I hear from time to time. What exact year leaf is this referring to?

Is it the latest model with the 40kwh battery?

In layman’s terms it refers to the Leaf 40 and its ability to rapid charge multiple time on a single trip due to the battery heating up and not actively cooled. Say you are on a long journey you start at home on 100% with a cool battery, your first rapid charge will be at 44kwh and then as the battery heats up your next will be throttled to 3xKWh and then the 3rd charge will be under 20kwh.

Not a issue for most owners but it does make the leaf less suited to long road trips when compared to I3’s, Ioniq, Tesla etc

ELM327 · 05-09-2019 8:41am

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

The “rapidgate” phrase I hear from time to time. What exact year leaf is this referring to?

Is it the latest model with the 40kwh battery?

It is the latest model with the 60kWh and 40kWh batteries

Silent Running · 05-09-2019 8:42am

McGiver wrote: »

Agree with the other replies and I'd also like to stress that free public charging infrastructure is an anomaly AFAIK, it's not normal anywhere in Europe to my knowledge.

Few countries I'm acquainted with, with both less and more developed EV markets, have vast majority of their chargers privately owned and paid. Not publicl/government owned and free.

The whole free public charging infrastructure in Ireland is very unusual and almost a sort of a Socialist experiment (which mostly failed based on the consensus in the community).

There are some free level 2 and level 3 public chargers in the UK.

tom_tarbucket · 05-09-2019 9:52am

krissovo wrote: »

In layman’s terms it refers to the Leaf 40 and its ability to rapid charge multiple time on a single trip due to the battery heating up and not actively cooled. Say you are on a long journey you start at home on 100% with a cool battery, your first rapid charge will be at 44kwh and then as the battery heats up your next will be throttled to 3xKWh and then the 3rd charge will be under 20kwh.

Not a issue for most owners but it does make the leaf less suited to long road trips when compared to I3’s, Ioniq, Tesla etc

Ok. Thanks. So this was on the leaf release in 2018/19 yeah.

Was there ever a fix or recall etc done for it?

Random EV thoughts.....

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