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Renault Zoe heavy refresh nearly here.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    Corsa and Peugeot 200EV have warm hatch acceleration

    Sub 8s to 60

    €31,000 is steep though

    With that acceleration and 100kW charging probably better value than Zoe if it comes it at €28,000 it's rumoured to be

    Just takes one car with a 50/60kWh battery priced competitively to throw the market

    So frustrating

    look at this map and tell me that a 100CCS/slow type2 combo is a better option than a 50kW CCS/22kw type2 option when so few CCS chargers are available.
    https://www.esb.ie/our-businesses/ecars/charge-point-map

    The Corsa-e with extras in Germany is 33k. A bare Corsa-e is 30k.
    The Zoe is reportedly going to be the same or almost same price as the current car.
    The Zoe has 15% more range than a Corsa/Peugeot.
    Paying at public charging sports which is what is going to happen soon means that you want the range to get home and charge inexpensively so the extra 50 to 60km is the difference between putting your hand in your pocket or not.

    My Zoe is faster than the manufacturer claims it to be.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    rivegauche wrote: »
    look at this map and tell me that a 100CCS/slow type2 combo is a better option than a 50kW CCS/22kw type2 option when so few CCS chargers are available.
    https://www.esb.ie/our-businesses/ecars/charge-point-map

    The Corsa-e with extras in Germany is 33k. A bare Corsa-e is 30k.
    The Zoe is reportedly going to be the same or almost same price as the current car.
    The Zoe has 15% more range than a Corsa/Peugeot.
    Paying at public charging sports which is what is going to happen soon means that you want the range to get home and charge inexpensively so the extra 50 to 60km is the difference between putting your hand in your pocket or not.

    My Zoe is faster than the manufacturer claims it to be.

    Not a chance Zoe50 is the same price as current car

    Would bet you anything on that

    It will be very close to Corsa/Peugeot price

    I would love to be wrong here, but i have seen it so many times now

    I agree with you btw 50kW/22kW is a great option at the right price


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭Joseph SEE


    unkel wrote: »
    I actually do defend the excessive prices :D

    We live in a capitalist world. Car makers maximise profits (and so they should) given a conditional framework of legislation.

    The framework is too slow, the EU (and our government) have set the pace too slow. The car makers are doing nothing wrong here. That's what makes it so frustrating.

    Yes, batteries cost money. Anywhere between 200 to 300 Euro per kWh at the pack level.

    Perhaps Tesla are under 200 Euro per kWh but it's hard to know as Musk has a tenuous relationship with the truth and Panasonic need to make a profit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭alanowx


    According to Renault the new ZOE50 will gain 125 km of range in approx 1 hour while connected to street 22kW CP.
    That's useful recovery while enjoying your afternoon coffee or trip to shops which should be more than enough to see you home.

    Came across this PDF. (32Mb in size. Hit Enter when new tab opens to force download popup window)

    https://media.group.renault.com/global/en-gb/download/21227905/presskit/pdf


  • Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭alanowx


    If you have any difficulties getting the above pdf, here is Renault Groups Media page in english

    https://media.group.renault.com/global/en-gb/groupe-renault/media/presspacks/21227905/nouvelle-renault-zoe-le-plaisir-de-rouler-100-electrique-prend-une-nouvelle-dimension?utm_campaign=newsalert_96178&utm_medium=email&utm_source=media.renault.com

    and under the main photo you will see the link "Download the press kit in PDF"

    Note also at bottom of page are some nice interior/exterior close up photos when zoomed to max size.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,431 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    I suppose battery availability (as well as price will affect the price of the car), if they can only get their hands on 10000 battery packs a year, then they can't make any more cars than this, so they'll price accordingly, sure they might be able to sell double that number (and potentially have more profit) at 25grand than at 30 grand.. But if the batteries ain't available...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    prices in Germany announced.
    Basically the same as before.

    bottom of the range costs €22k which will really impact Up!/Citigo/Mii/Smart sales as the base battery size is 41kw now and has a 110ps motor with 316km range
    battery rental still in operation in German market not that it matters to me but a monthly charge of €74 is not a major obstacle.
    Top of the range is €28k for a vehicle that will be much better specified than a VW ID 3 with a much longer range.
    I see no reason to buy a e208 or e-corsa now.

    This car still has 22kw and 50kw charging and more range than e208, e-corsa and ID3.

    If I had to place an order for a replacement for my Zoe now then this is the car for me.

    https://www.renault-presse.de/main
    EUROPE'S MOST POPULAR ELECTRIC CARS COMES FROM 21,900 EURO

    NEW RENAULT ZOE: MORE RANGE AND MORE PERFORMANCE AT THE OLD PRICE

    The new Renault ZOE can be ordered from the end of July 2019 at a price of 21,900 Euro2. Thus Renault offers the future entry-level version LIFE Z.E. 40 with the 41 kWh battery and the 80 kW / 108 hp electric motor R110 at exactly the same price as the previous base model with the 22 kWh battery. The prices for the ZOE Z.E. 50 with the newly developed, even more powerful 52 kWh battery start at 23,900 euros.

    The completely updated Renault ZOE, Europe's and Germany's best-selling electric car, makes electric mobility even more attractive: the new ZOE LIFE Z.E. 40, starting at 21,900 euros, already achieves a range of up to 316 kilometers in the realistic WLTP test cycle4. The ZOE LIFE Z.E. 50 with 52 kWh battery capacity costs from 23,900 euros and allows up to 390 kilometers range

    Even more comfort is offered by the equipment level of the ZOE EXPERIENCE in conjunction with the electric motor R110 and the Z.E. 50 lithium-ion battery, available from 24,900 euros. With the more powerful electric motor R135 with 100 kW / 135 hp, the ZOE EXPERIENCE is available from 25,900 euros.

    As a new top version Renault offers the ZOE INTENS with the electric motor R135 and the Z.E. 50 lithium-ion battery for the price from 27,900 euros.

    ZOE customers can also buy the lithium-ion battery of their electric vehicle. The price difference between battery recharge and battery purchase amounts to 8,090 Euro regardless of the capacity. The purchase price includes a warranty of eight years or 160,000 kilometers and, during the stated warranty period, a guaranteed capacity of at least 66 percent of the initial charge capacity.

    SINCE 2013 MODEL FOR AFFORDABLE ELECTRIC MOBILITY

    With the ZOE, Renault made electric mobility suitable for everyday use affordable for a broad range of buyers as early as 2013. Since the model was designed from the outset exclusively for the electric drive, pioneering e-technology innovations could be realized in a mass-produced vehicle for the first time. By the end of May 2019 Renault sold about 150,000 copies. In 2018, the ZOE achieved a market share of 12.8 percent for electric vehicles in Europe with 40,000 new registrations. In Germany, the Renault ZOE is also the best-selling electric car: Since the market launch, more than 22,000 customers opted for the electric small car.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,076 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Battery rental is a big obstacle. Makes it much harder to sell.

    So, if I'm reading what you posted correctly the base price of a Zoe 50 is €23900+€8090= €31990 and thats in Germany with their lower VAT rate and before we get the Paddy pricing added on. Not cheap by any means

    It sounds like it will be about the same price here as the entry model ID.3 after incentives. Not sure I'd pick an entry model Zoe over an entry model ID.3 at the similar price level.... we'd need to see more specs and prices I think.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    Not when you are leasing which is a huge element of the market. Battery rental doesn't matter to me myself and in fact is a benefit in the way the monthly calculation is calculated in my lease.


  • Registered Users Posts: 64,898 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Leasing is an extremely expensive way of owning a car. Fair enough if you can afford it, and you have the pleasure of a brand new car every three years, but it wouldn't be for me :)

    Didn't Mad_Lad pay €22.5k in lease terms over 2.5 years for a Leaf 24kWh after which he didn't even own any equity in the car?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,497 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    unkel wrote: »
    Leasing is an extremely expensive way of owning a car. Fair enough if you can afford it, and you have the pleasure of a brand new car every three years, but it wouldn't be for me :)

    Didn't Mad_Lad pay €22.5k in lease terms over 2.5 years for a Leaf 24kWh after which he didn't even own any equity in the car?
    Yes but that was a silly purchase


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    It is a company car. It isn't consumer leasing. It is a two year lease period which is heavily subsidized by my employer with reduced BIK tax.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    How much here for base model based on German prices

    €27,000?

    Not bad for a 50kWh battery and it's got more range than Leaf60


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,190 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    How much here for base model based on German prices

    €27,000?

    Not bad for a 50kWh battery and it's got more range than Leaf60

    I priced one last week and it was €29K for the outgoing model.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    charlieIRL wrote: »
    I priced one last week and it was €29K for the outgoing model.

    That must be a top spec one?

    Base version is 25k


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,190 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    That must be a top spec one?

    Base version is 25k

    Was a dynaminique model. Nothing special on it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,424 ✭✭✭McGiver


    The biggest plus is that it has both CCS albeit only 50kW as well as capable of doing 22kW AC, very good for Esb car chargers which are almost all 22kW, quite a few of them and should be free to use at least a year or so. Handy to get 40% top up while having a coffee or shopping when out and about.


  • Registered Users Posts: 64,898 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    rivegauche wrote: »
    It is a company car. It isn't consumer leasing. It is a two year lease period which is heavily subsidized by my employer with reduced BIK tax.

    Company car EV with zero BIK is of course a great deal for the employee :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭gunnerfitzy


    McGiver wrote: »
    The biggest plus is that it has both CCS albeit only 50kW as well as capable of doing 22kW AC, very good for Esb car chargers which are almost all 22kW, quite a few of them and should be free to use at least a year or so. Handy to get 40% top up while having a coffee or shopping when out and about.

    I would also think it likely that when charging for AC does come in, the pricing will be far more favourable than that for DC fast charging.

    Plus hotels, shopping centres etc, many of whom have 22kW charge points, will continue to be free for some time.


  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,159 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Fully charged having a look at the car:



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    Fully charged having a look at the car:


    If it's the same price it's a massive step forward, starting from €25,000 and more range than Leaf 62kWh costing €40,000

    Performance with 136bhp is decent too, 0 - 60, 9 secs or so, perfectly adequate for a small car

    Interior looks really good, nice tablet, even the Leaf 62 at €40,000 doesn't have one

    Really hope base model comes in very close to €25,000

    390km wltp range for that price is a game changer imo


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 417 ✭✭Mancomb Seepgood


    I really like the look of it,though I don't have my ZE40 a year yet and am not in a position to change even if I wanted to.CCS charging is a game changer, it's annoying to be locked out of the Easygo and Ionity chargers that are popping up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,497 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    It's much better than the leaf, at 25k with 22kW AC and 50kW CCS I could live with that vs the 15k more needed for a non-3 phase AC leaf with 50kW chademo


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    ELM327 wrote: »
    It's much better than the leaf, at 25k with 22kW AC and 50kW CCS I could live with that vs the 15k more needed for a non-3 phase AC leaf with 50kW chademo

    Leaf with all it's issues like excessive degradation, rapidgate, non CCS etc has given EV's a bad rep for long enough

    It's good to finally see it being pused aside with proper efforts from autogiants Hyundai, Peugeot, Renault, VW, Kia now having arrived/arriving


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,431 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Does renault still use the same battery packs as Nissan?

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭Round Cable


    Markcheese wrote: »
    Does renault still use the same battery packs as Nissan?

    No, they use LG cells.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche




  • Registered Users Posts: 21,497 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Markcheese wrote: »
    Does renault still use the same battery packs as Nissan?
    I think that was only for the Fluence ZE?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,788 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    One for the test drive list for sure.

    Let's call it 26 k to buy a 52 kwh EV that can be bought like a normal car with no 12 month wait, test drive before you buy.

    Active cooling and should be a 140 mile car in winter even with motorway use.

    How it will drive is the thing though - but I dont think anyone has ever considered the Zoe a particularly crap drive and the new one is probably tweaked.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    Old diesel wrote: »
    One for the test drive list for sure.

    Let's call it 26 k to buy a 52 kwh EV that can be bought like a normal car with no 12 month wait, test drive before you buy.

    Active cooling and should be a 140 mile car in winter even with motorway use.

    How it will drive is the thing though - but I dont think anyone has ever considered the Zoe a particularly crap drive and the new one is probably tweaked.

    It's got decent power now with 136bhp, that was always the complaint with Zoe, old ones had 89bhp, that a big jump.


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