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Renault Zoe heavy refresh nearly here.

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    #32
    rivegauche
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    unkel wrote: »
    No need to tell me the benefits of EVs in general and of Zoe in particular. You're preaching to the converted. I own an EV and I might yet buy a Zoe too :)



    I don't think so. Ioniq might have a very small battery and is a lot heavier than Zoe. But it also has an extremely efficient drive train and the best aerodynamics of any EV (shared with the Tesla S and 3)

    I'd say at 135km/h GPS speed (or whatever the maximum speed the Zoe can do), Ioniq will get further. If not in summer, then almost certainly on a cold day in winter.

    But my general point is that Zoe is too expensive. And that the world does not need a 50kWh supermini, even if they can sell it at €25k (which remains to be seen). The world does need a very cheap EV supermini. €15k or thereabouts.
    That is conjecture on your part and you'll certainly be suffering range anxiety much earlier as you won't be sure as to whether a fast charger is available.
    If a long journey is planned in a Zoe then you time your charging to end just before you set out on the journey and the batteries will be nice and warm and the interior will be pre-heated too.


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    #33
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,134 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    rivegauche wrote: »
    That is conjecture on your part

    Which bit is? You quoted my whole post!


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    #34
    rivegauche
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    "I'd say" and "I don't think so" = conjecture.

    I measured top speed today and at 140kmph on dashboard it was showing 137 to 138kmph on GPS.
    The average of about five 0 to 100kmph tests was just over 10 seconds.
    I can easily do the roughly 200km round trip at motorway speed to the nearest large city on a single charge.
    I certainly am not paying the headline price for this car or battery rental.

    Your constant negativity toward this car which is a technically highly competent car will leave other people passing over this car when the bargains start appearing and you'll drive them to Hyundais or Nissans where they'll be left standing around waiting to charge because they can't find a free fast charger.


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    #35
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,134 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    rivegauche wrote: »
    "I'd say" and "I don't think so" = conjecture.

    I'd nearly accept the challenge of a 135km/h GPS speed range test next winter. See who goes furthest ;)
    rivegauche wrote: »
    Your constant negativity toward this car

    But I keep telling you I actually like the Zoe! It's just overpriced for what it is. So are pretty much all EVs now, the updated Ioniq included. The only exception really imho are the Tesla S and X now after the huge price cut.


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    #36
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    rivegauche wrote: »
    "I'd say" and "I don't think so" = conjecture.

    I measured top speed today and at 140kmph on dashboard it was showing 137 to 138kmph on GPS.
    The average of about five 0 to 100kmph tests was just over 10 seconds.
    I can easily do the roughly 200km round trip at motorway speed to the nearest large city on a single charge.
    I certainly am not paying the headline price for this car or battery rental.

    Your constant negativity toward this car which is a technically highly competent car will leave other people passing over this car when the bargains start appearing and you'll drive them to Hyundais or Nissans where they'll be left standing around waiting to charge because they can't find a free fast charger.

    Thats a good post man

    What Zoe do you have the R90 or R110 41kWh

    Read the R110 is pretty nippy

    Have driven most EVs at this stage besides Zoe and i3

    How much did you get Zoe 41 for?

    Read some getting them for €25,000 on the road and low interest pcp

    Its not a bad price with the low interest


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    #37
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    unkel wrote: »
    ... It's just overpriced for what it is. So are pretty much all EVs now, the updated Ioniq included. ....

    Why are they so over priced? Because of the new models around the corner?


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    #38
    Ning
    Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Ning


    I was looking forward this new zoe, but as a first gen zoe owner, I may wait until they have a 60kwh battery model with ccs 100kw to justify trading up.


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    #39
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    unkel wrote: »
    ....
    Still, I learned to drive 35 years ago. My instructors car was a first generation early 80s Nissan Micra (K10) with a 1l engine. I just looked it up and its top speed was 145km/h. A typical base model supermini from the early 70s (so nearly half a century ago) could do 135km/h

    I stand by my claim that those maximum speeds are a bit pathetic today
    ...

    Those cars were unstable at those speeds. Skinny tires and arodynamics of a sail. We had the K10 and K11. High speed cruising was not their forte.

    If you are planning regular high speed travel I'm not sure a supermini would be the ideal car.

    However as a city car in traffic most of it's life....


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    #40
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,134 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    beauf wrote: »
    Why are they so over priced? Because of the new models around the corner?

    Because the manufacturers are maximising profits (and pocketing much of the Irish €10k grant). Because they can.

    Not until they are punished more for producing cars that cause emissions, will they make more and more affordable EVs. This is still a few years away unfortunately...


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    #41
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,696 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    For €25,000 who cares

    Tesla is bloody €50,000

    Car for the masses lol Elon

    Really disappointed with Tesla

    Why do I have to be poor :(


    For 25000 the Ioniq charges 1.5 times faster and probably has similar motorway range with much more practicality.


    Poor? I thought you bought your house with cash and were looking at petrol new Civic? Neither of those are moves I would associate with someone claiming 'poor'


    48k model 3 is approx 700/month with 6k down. Hardly expensive compared to a new 340i or c class 43.


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    #42
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,696 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    beauf wrote: »
    Those cars were unstable at those speeds. Skinny tires and arodynamics of a sail. We had the K10 and K11. High speed cruising was not their forte.

    If you are planning regular high speed travel I'm not sure a supermini would be the ideal car.

    However as a city car in traffic most of it's life....
    I remember in my misspent youth maxing out a mark 2 fiesta (4 speed) on the N7 (as it was then). By god if I had any fillings then they would have fallen out. That car was not happy above 50-55 mph and it was the same for other superminis of the time.


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    #43
    adunis
    Registered Users Posts: 659 ✭✭✭adunis


    I bought new Zoë Dyn nav for 25000,with a super trade in allowance and 0% hp for 5 years,looks the same price to me as a well spec'd diesel city car.
    I.e I don't accept the overpriced arguement..


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    #44
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    ELM327 wrote: »
    For 25000 the Ioniq charges 1.5 times faster and probably has similar motorway range with much more practicality.


    Poor? I thought you bought your house with cash and were looking at petrol new Civic? Neither of those are moves I would associate with someone claiming 'poor'


    48k model 3 is approx 700/month with 6k down. Hardly expensive compared to a new 340i or c class 43.

    It's still poor in my book.

    It's a 180k house normal house ( worth now ), nothing special

    That model 3 price is not bad

    Is that pcp, I could only see hire purchase on the site for 1000e a month

    700e I could afford ( just )


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    #45
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,696 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    It's still poor in my book.

    It's a 180k house normal house ( worth now ), nothing special

    That model 3 price is not bad

    Is that pcp, I could only see hire purchase on the site for 1000e a month

    700e I could afford ( just )


    767/mo on hire purchase (turns out it's a 7k down amount, I was confusing the 'after savings' price, which I wish they would not show)

    482937.PNG


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    #46
    rivegauche
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    How much did you get Zoe 41 for?
    monthly cost is so low that it'd only annoy the rest of you.
    These Zoes which are being sold or rather leased at good prices will be off lease in a few years time and hitting the pre-owned market. 2 years in my case.

    And here is the new Zoe:
    https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/renault/zoe/107083/new-2019-renault-zoe-arrives-with-longer-range-and-extra-tech


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    #47
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,696 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I still think there will be a lot of interest in the old model Zoe ,even with the new one out


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    #48
    rivegauche
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    press pack for launch here:
    https://media.group.renault.com/global/en-gb/search/results?mediatypes=19


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    #49
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,134 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    135bhp/245NM, 0-60 in sub 10s

    Pity they kept the torque that low. Could have turned it into a very nippy hot hatch with 350NM for a 0-60 in about 7s - that would certainly appeal to the younger buyer who'd fork out several grand for the acceleration / hot hatch status, same as they have done for hot hatches for decades. Maybe a chance of a RenaultSport high torque version later on?


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    #50
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    unkel wrote: »
    135bhp/245NM, 0-60 in sub 10s

    Pity they kept the torque that low. Could have turned it into a very nippy hot hatch with 350NM for a 0-60 in about 7s - that would certainly appeal to the younger buyer who'd fork out several grand for the acceleration / hot hatch status, same as they have done for hot hatches for decades. Maybe a chance of a RenaultSport high torque version later on?

    If it's €25,000 I won't mind

    Bargain for a 50kWh battery


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    #51
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    adunis wrote: »
    I bought new Zoë Dyn nav for 25000,with a super trade in allowance and 0% hp for 5 years,looks the same price to me as a well spec'd diesel city car.
    I.e I don't accept the overpriced arguement..

    No that's a decent price for a 41kWh car these days and super interest rate

    Well done


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    #52
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,192 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    unkel wrote: »
    135bhp/245NM, 0-60 in sub 10s

    Pity they kept the torque that low. Could have turned it into a very nippy hot hatch with 350NM for a 0-60 in about 7s - that would certainly appeal to the younger buyer who'd fork out several grand for the acceleration / hot hatch status, same as they have done for hot hatches for decades. Maybe a chance of a RenaultSport high torque version later on?

    There was a 460bhp prototype built a few years back: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-geneva-motor-show/hot-renault-zoe-e-sport-gets-460bhp


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    #53
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,192 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Are these supposed to be available for 192 or are they coming 2020?


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    #54
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    Are these supposed to be available for 192 or are they coming 2020?

    September is what I read

    Really interesting as currently Zoe40 is priced well at €25,000 and 0% interest

    Wonder what Zoe50 in 136ps trim will go for

    They are doing Zoe50 in 110ps trim too so that one won't be too cheap I presume

    Nice range for a small car


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    #55
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    ELM327 wrote: »
    767/mo on hire purchase (turns out it's a 7k down amount, I was confusing the 'after savings' price, which I wish they would not show)

    482937.PNG

    They need to get pcp to sell more here VW style

    HP is too much per month


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    #56
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    Same range as €42,000 Leaf62

    385km vs 390km Zoe

    https://pushevs.com/2019/06/17/new-renault-zoe-is-officially-unveiled-with-ze-50-battery/#comments

    Both charge at 50kW too ( as faster charging Chademo doesn't exist )

    Zoe is looking good

    Now it's just the price

    Don't disappoint again


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    #57
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,134 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Be a good deal at €25k on the road. But I guess it will be more like €30k

    Even at €25k it's a lot to be paying for a supermini when you can get other superminis (made by the same company) for just €10k


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    #58
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    unkel wrote: »
    135bhp/245NM, 0-60 in sub 10s

    Pity they kept the torque that low. Could have turned it into a very nippy hot hatch with 350NM for a 0-60 in about 7s - that would certainly appeal to the younger buyer who'd fork out several grand for the acceleration / hot hatch status, same as they have done for hot hatches for decades. Maybe a chance of a RenaultSport high torque version later on?

    Corsa and Peugeot 200EV have warm hatch acceleration

    Sub 8s to 60

    €31,000 is steep though

    With that acceleration and 100kW charging probably better value than Zoe if it comes it at €28,000 it's rumoured to be

    Just takes one car with a 50/60kWh battery priced competitively to throw the market

    So frustrating


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    #59
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,134 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Frustrating is the right word alright.


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    #60
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    unkel wrote: »
    Frustrating is the right word alright.

    I like that even though you own an EV

    You don't defend the excessive prices

    So many posters here defend them

    Like they've been brainwashed

    Find it very strange


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    #61
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,134 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    I actually do defend the excessive prices :D

    We live in a capitalist world. Car makers maximise profits (and so they should) given a conditional framework of legislation.

    The framework is too slow, the EU (and our government) have set the pace too slow. The car makers are doing nothing wrong here. That's what makes it so frustrating.


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