Kia Niro EV

Shefwedfan · 19-08-2018 3:10pm

dee75 wrote: »

Called into local Kia dealer today to take a look inside their demo Niro.

Tild me they still haven't received training on EV model. They've been told it will be late 2018 (register for 2019) before they get the first models. No hint on pricing yet but Kia is very aware that they can't price it too high or it nust wont add up for buyer's.

I liked the interior of the demo hybrid they had. I'd be moving down a bit in size from a Sportage but it still seemed a reasonable size to me. Dealer took my details and said he'd give me a call when they get some definite details from Kia Ireland.

Blanchardstown Kia said they had already got the training....

DrPhilG · 19-08-2018 4:34pm

Excellent, looking forward to Bjorn's testing.

I'll be gutted if it ends up too much more expensive than the Kona.

BigAl81 · 25-08-2018 12:16pm

Bjorn said September 5th to 10th for his Niro test. Will be great to see that!

Had a look at Kia's Korean website as the car is on sale there it has all info.

Interestingly it only rates it as a range of 385kms ;( Was hoping for more given the Kona's numbers.

http://www.kia.com/kr/vehicles/niro-ev/features.html

Shefwedfan · 25-08-2018 4:25pm

BigAl81 wrote: »

Bjorn said September 5th to 10th for his Niro test. Will be great to see that!

Had a look at Kia's Korean website as the car is on sale there it has all info.

Interestingly it only rates it as a range of 385kms ;( Was hoping for more given the Kona's numbers.

http://www.kia.com/kr/vehicles/niro-ev/features.html

Bigger car so even with a 64kWh battery it will have less range

I posted a few pages back as well, it looks like Kia are using a "cheaper" battery than Hyundai. I can't remember the details. So maybe the range will be reduced as well...

Still 385km....if that gave me 300km motorway speed then I would be a very happy man

Shefwedfan · 25-08-2018 6:33pm

It's more expensive to the Kona....

The Kona based on my translate pages is 46,500,000 or 48,500,000

The Niro is 47,970,000 or 52,070,000....no idea if the 2 prices are the battery options?

unkel · 25-08-2018 10:05pm

Nah, the prices are too close for it to be the batteries. Must both be 64kWh with different trim / spec levels. Based on this presumption, the Niro base is only 3% more than the Kona base. I'd say DrPhil can live with that

Shefwedfan · 25-08-2018 10:13pm

unkel wrote: »

Nah, the prices are too close for it to be the batteries. Must both be 64kWh with different trim / spec levels. Based on this presumption, the Niro base is only 3% more than the Kona base. I'd say DrPhil can live with that

That would be my take on it, its trim level. I went with the lower trim and based on the translate I then had to add on home charging cable and a few other option. I would guess the higher spec had these included.....

liamog · 25-08-2018 10:38pm

3,500,000 WON is around €2,700, maybe that will be the max price difference?

Shefwedfan · 25-08-2018 10:49pm

liamog wrote: »

3,500,000 WON is around €2,700, maybe that will be the max price difference?

Hyundai would class themselves as a more premium brand. Maybe they are trying to differentiate by the battery....so Kona has better battery but smaller....Niro is bigger but less quality battery

Just pure guesswork here

Unless they f**k up like Nissan I would still go Niro

DrPhilG · 26-08-2018 1:22am

unkel wrote: »

Based on this presumption, the Niro base is only 3% more than the Kona base. I'd say DrPhil can live with that

I won't be chasing the base though...

unkel · 26-08-2018 1:39am

I know. But it looks like Niro will be higher priced than Kona, but only by a little bit. I would be very surprised if a high spec Niro 64kWh will be over 2k (EUR or GBP) more than a similar high spec Kona 64kWh

liamog · 26-08-2018 2:04am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Hyundai would class themselves as a more premium brand. Maybe they are trying to differentiate by the battery....so Kona has better battery but smaller....Niro is bigger but less quality battery

Just pure guesswork here

Unless they f**k up like Nissan I would still go Niro

The Stonic is the sister car to the Kona, and there are rumored plans for a Stonic EV next year, that's where we will see Kia's cheaper than Kona model.

The Niro is built on the Ioniq platform, I presume Hyundai will come out with a CUV based on that too, or just use it for the next Tucson.

Shefwedfan · 26-08-2018 3:26pm

liamog wrote: »

The Stonic is the sister car to the Kona, and there are rumored plans for a Stonic EV next year, that's where we will see Kia's cheaper than Kona model.

The Niro is built on the Ioniq platform, I presume Hyundai will come out with a CUV based on that too, or just use it for the next Tucson.

Hyundai have the Nexo Fuel Cell yoke.....that is Tucson size

icom · 26-08-2018 11:06pm

Another Kia Niro EV video review from Korea.

The aim was to try to drive the Niro for 500km on a single charge.

They drove it to a stop and it covered 446.8 km including about 7km in turtle mode. They started off with a 97% charge. 6.9km/kWh.

Not bad for a bigger car than the Kona, I'm sure Bjorn could hypermile it a lot further !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scBH4zlAIb8&pbjreload=10

DrPhilG · 27-08-2018 7:02am

Anybody speak enough Korean or watched carefully enough to know what kind of speed they did?

I'm starting to fear that the range will be a fair bit less than the Kona. If they were driving conservatively and only got 450km/280m then that doesn't bode well for me.

Hopefully Bjorn will find somewhere to beat 70mph out if it for a real Phil-range-test.

ewj1978 · 27-08-2018 11:19am

Even Bjorn only got the Kona to do 515 @ ~95km/hr. If these lads were doing the same it'd still be impressive.
I keep reading there's a 10% drop in range on the Niro compared to the Kona.

Shefwedfan · 27-08-2018 11:34am

icom wrote: »

Another Kia Niro EV video review from Korea.

The aim was to try to drive the Niro for 500km on a single charge.

They drove it to a stop and it covered 446.8 km including about 7km in turtle mode. They started off with a 97% charge. 6.9km/kWh.

Not bad for a bigger car than the Kona, I'm sure Bjorn could hypermile it a lot further !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scBH4zlAIb8&pbjreload=10

I don't get the point of hypermile?

I would rather they got the car. Charged at side of motorway and then drove for 100km/h or 120km/h and see how far it goes

Who cares how far it goes it you stay behind truck and go slow or whatever they do to hypermile, nobody would ever other driving in real life like that

JohnnyJohnJohns · 27-08-2018 11:42am

If you look at the video @7.27 it shows the dash on the first part of the trip:
168.8km
2:32 hours

so that gives an average speed of about 68kph and around 15.3kwh/100km. It looks like they did spend a lot of time in traffic and timer was probably ticking so I'm guessing higher averages are possible so similar efficiency.

At a guess I'd say you're looking at doing around 90 to reach distances greater than 400km. Kia state a range of about 380km (390 or so for the Kona) so at 120 you're probably in or around 300km which is pretty good in an Irish context. (Especially for those of us Dublin based!)

Shefwedfan · 27-08-2018 12:41pm

300km circle form Dublin

Now I do know roads don't follow a straight line but still :-)

https://www.mapdevelopers.com/draw-circle-tool.php?circles=%5B%5B300000%2C53.3498053%2C-6.2603097%2C%22%23AA1327%22%2C%22%23000000%22%2C0.4%5D%5D

Water John · 27-08-2018 1:52pm

Ha, more important to you to make Manchester than to make Dingle.
Great that any part of the island is within reach now. This is well past my old measure of Cork-Dublin without charging. Totally mainstream, most would be nuts now to buy new ICE esp diesel.

unkel · 27-08-2018 8:46pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

then drove for 100km/h or 120km/h and see how far it goes

First we had NEDC then we had EPA, now we have WLTP but hopefully in a few years time the world will have adopted SWF :cool:

How far does the car go at 120km/h GPS speed. It really is all you need to know.

daheff · 28-08-2018 12:45pm

just talked with local dealer about electric niro. hes pricing it at 45k before vrt & seai grant.... so 32,5k. now bigger issue is that its described as 1.6 phev petrol plugin. So im assuming this is still the hybrid rather than full ev. I asked at the time was it the 64kw battery... dealer said (after quick look of panic) it must be, only coming in one variant.

Very disappointed with sales folks on this. At least nissan sales people know what the leaf is all about.

KCross · 28-08-2018 12:55pm

daheff wrote: »

just talked with local dealer about electric niro. hes pricing it at 45k before vrt & seai grant.... so 32,5k. now bigger issue is that its described as 1.6 phev petrol plugin. So im assuming this is still the hybrid rather than full ev. I asked at the time was it the 64kw battery... dealer said (after quick look of panic) it must be, only coming in one variant.

Very disappointed with sales folks on this. At least nissan sales people know what the leaf is all about.

Sounds like he hasn't a clue. There is a Niro PHEV for sale with about 12 months. He is likely looking at that.

I doubt he has any data on the BEV version yet. Responses I've got on the Niro BEV, a few weeks ago, were that prices would be confirmed in Oct, demo versions available in Nov with customer deliveries for 191 (not sure if thats Jan or not, but in 191).

Shefwedfan · 28-08-2018 1:00pm

daheff wrote: »

just talked with local dealer about electric niro. hes pricing it at 45k before vrt & seai grant.... so 32,5k. now bigger issue is that its described as 1.6 phev petrol plugin. So im assuming this is still the hybrid rather than full ev. I asked at the time was it the 64kw battery... dealer said (after quick look of panic) it must be, only coming in one variant.

Very disappointed with sales folks on this. At least nissan sales people know what the leaf is all about.

Most Nissan dealers hadn't a bloody clue about the Leaf until the Leaf 2 came out, still go in now and ask a question and you get a lot of blanks looks.....

Go into VW and ask about the eGolf and most don't even know VW sell electric cars...

The sales men in Ireland have spent years selling daysel without even having to know what colour the car is let alone what engine is in it....

daheff · 28-08-2018 1:23pm

KCross wrote: »

Sounds like he hasn't a clue. There is a Niro PHEV for sale with about 12 months. He is likely looking at that.

I doubt he has any data on the BEV version yet. Responses I've got on the Niro BEV, a few weeks ago, were that prices would be confirmed in Oct, demo versions available in Nov with customer deliveries for 191 (not sure if thats Jan or not, but in 191).

he did mention oct/nov as having stock again though

Shefwedfan · 28-08-2018 1:38pm

daheff wrote: »

he did mention oct/nov as having stock again though

It will be launched at Paris Motor Show in October, I would doubt ireland will be getting our hands on it very quickly. Based on how the "rollout" of the Kona is going so far.....looks like Ireland seems to be bottom of the pile

BigAl81 · 28-08-2018 2:05pm

I came across a Niro PHEV parked next to a Leaf today.

I know the Niro is only a crossover and not a full SUV, but I was still surprised at how small it looked ;(

Niro_Next_To_Leaf.jpg

Shefwedfan · 28-08-2018 3:23pm

BigAl81 wrote: »

I came across a Niro PHEV parked next to a Leaf today.

I know the Niro is only a crossover and not a full SUV, but I was still surprised at how small it looked ;(

the Leaf is not small....just awful looking :P

The Leaf 2 is a lot better but has issues I cannot overlook...

The extra bit of height in the Kona will make a real difference when putting kids in & out

daheff · 29-08-2018 2:24pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The Leaf 2 is a lot better but has issues I cannot overlook...

what issues?

I'm starting to lose patience waiting for the Niro, so might adjust my buying to the Leaf or Hyundai Kona.....so anything you can divulge on the Leaf is of interest.thanks

cros13 · 29-08-2018 3:02pm

The Niro EV won't hit Ireland until the 191 reg. The dealer was just confusing the EV with the plug-in hybrid.

You can expect the Niro EV to be priced about €2-3k more than the Kona BEV when it does arrive.

unkel · 29-08-2018 3:51pm

cros13 wrote: »

You can expect the Niro EV to be priced about €2-3k more than the Kona BEV when it does arrive.

What do you base that on, cros13?

From the South Korea prices, the base 64kWh Niro seemed only 3% more than 64kWh Kona, that would have list prices at say €35k and €36k respectively, so just a grand the difference?

DrPhilG · 29-08-2018 10:12pm

daheff wrote: »

what issues?

I'm starting to lose patience waiting for the Niro, so might adjust my buying to the Leaf or Hyundai Kona.....so anything you can divulge on the Leaf is of interest.thanks

#rapidgate

Not a big issue for most, although it may well affect you in the future if resale values are affected by the problem.

unkel · 29-08-2018 11:24pm

I see the obsolete CHAdeMO charging as a far bigger issue than #rapidgate. Samih has proven that if you plan it wisely and take your time, that you can drive long distances and keep #rapidgate reasonably at bay. Even in summer.

You can't do anything about arriving in your L40 with three other L40s ahead of you at a public charger all needing 90 minutes of a charge though. Mightn't have happened yet in Ireland, but it sure will with the numbers they are selling in.

creedp · 29-08-2018 11:53pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

the Leaf is not small....just awful looking :P

The Leaf 2 is a lot better but has issues I cannot overlook...

The extra bit of height in the Kona will make a real difference when putting kids in & out

Agree with you the Leaf is rather an ugly duckling and while it might not be small compared to a Kona it's still quite tight in the back for anything beyond 3 young teenagers.

I've seen a few Niro phevs in the flesh and they really are a plain Jane design. However the slab sided boxy 1980s hatchback styling maximizes the internal dimensions of the car which gives it a bit of an advantage over the more sculpted Kona. As said before I don't get the attraction to this style of car but, all style (Maybe not so much the Niro!) over function.

Shefwedfan · 30-08-2018 8:53am

daheff wrote: »

what issues?

I'm starting to lose patience waiting for the Niro, so might adjust my buying to the Leaf or Hyundai Kona.....so anything you can divulge on the Leaf is of interest.thanks

Leaf 24kWh Gen 1 - Dodgy battery
Leaf 24kWh Gen 1.5 - dodgy axle
Leaf 30kWh Gen 1.5 - dodgy axle and battery
Leaf 2 40kWh - #rapidgate and potentially dodgy battery(too early to tell)

Shefwedfan · 30-08-2018 8:57am

creedp wrote: »

Agree with you the Leaf is rather an ugly duckling and while it might not be small compared to a Kona it's still quite tight in the back for anything beyond 3 young teenagers.

I've seen a few Niro phevs in the flesh and they really are a plain Jane design. However the slab sided boxy 1980s hatchback styling maximizes the internal dimensions of the car which gives it a bit of an advantage over the more sculpted Kona. As said before I don't get the attraction to this style of car but, all style (Maybe not so much the Niro!) over function.

The huge benefit of the Kona and Niro is a 64kWh battery stuck into it :-)

Apart from that. The Kona is more of the new fad Compact SUVCrossover. The Niro is similar to the Crossover range that has become hugely popular.

The benefit I see to the Crossover is the height. I have 3 young kids and bending in & out of eGolf soon starts to hit the back. The Crossover althoughtnot any bigger to the Golf gets rid of that issue.....it is just a lot easier with young kids

Soarer · 30-08-2018 9:05am

DrPhilG wrote: »

#rapidgate

Not a big issue for most, although it may well affect you in the future if resale values are affected by the problem.

Also, don't go outside in case you get knocked down.

KCross · 30-08-2018 9:16am

unkel wrote: »

I see the obsolete CHAdeMO charging as a far bigger issue than #rapidgate.

Dont know why you think its obsolete. It might not be the preferred standard by the EU but its far from obsolete or being phased out in any way.

Its being expanded into China (biggest EV market in the world) and obviously its home country Japan and its being actively worked as a standard for 350kW rates the same as CCS is. It already supports Vehicle2Grid tech (which CCS doesn't).

Apart from Ionity which will be CCS only because its being sponsored by CCS, you'd want to be mad to install a rapid in Ireland without ChaDemo support in the medium term as the majority of EV's are, and will continue to be, ChaDeMo for some time yet. The Leaf is selling strong.

Obsolete isn't the right word to use. I wouldn't have any worries about buying a ChaDeMo based car... rapidgate and possibly battery degradation would worry me a lot more for the new Leaf.... but hey this is a Niro thread so sorry for OT!

cros13 · 30-08-2018 12:02pm

unkel wrote: »

What do you base that on, cros13?

From the South Korea prices, the base 64kWh Niro seemed only 3% more than 64kWh Kona, that would have list prices at say €35k and €36k respectively, so just a grand the difference?

Expected norwegian pricing from pre-orders. It may be just that the pre-order Niro has more equipment.

grogi · 30-08-2018 12:24pm

KCross wrote: »

Dont know why you think its obsolete. It might not be the preferred standard by the EU but its far from obsolete or being phased out in any way.

Let's put it the following way: despite not being obsolete, I would not like to use Japanese electrical equipment in Europe. Not only they have different voltage, but also different plug.

And the same goes to ChaDeMo. It is not obsolete worldwide, but will be pain to use here.

Soarer · 30-08-2018 12:33pm

grogi wrote: »

Let's put it the following way: despite not being obsolete, I would not like to use Japanese electrical equipment in Europe. Not only they have different voltage, but also different plug.

Sony?
Hitachi?
Panasonic?
Sharp?
Toshiba?
Casio?
Seiko?

KCross · 30-08-2018 12:51pm

grogi wrote: »

Let's put it the following way: despite not being obsolete, I would not like to use Japanese electrical equipment in Europe. Not only they have different voltage, but also different plug.

And the same goes to ChaDeMo. It is not obsolete worldwide, but will be pain to use here.

Thats a strange response I have to say grogi. It's already being extensively used here in every leaf on the road. Whats the issue/pain with it today?

ChaDeMo vs CCS is not a lot different to the fact that we have 3-pin square plugs here and they have round 2-pin in Europe and flat 2-pin in the US etc.... its just a standard but they all deliver electricity.

grogi · 30-08-2018 1:18pm

Soarer wrote: »

Sony?
Hitachi?
Panasonic?
Sharp?
Toshiba?
Casio?
Seiko?

Don't play dumb - you know exactly what I mean.

KCross wrote: »

Thats a strange response I have to say grogi. It's already being extensively used here in every leaf on the road. Whats the issue/pain with it today?

There will be absolutely no focus on extending ChaDeMo network. It might get extended as a side effect of building CCS, but I would not bank on it.

KCross · 30-08-2018 1:30pm

grogi wrote: »

There will be absolutely no focus on extending ChaDeMo network. It might get extended as a side effect of building CCS, but I would not bank on it.

With the number 1 selling EV for the next few years likely to be ChaDeMo? Fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion but I cant see why an operator would alienate ChaDeMo for the sake of having an extra cable on the rapid.

I still don't understand your comment about Japanese electrical equipment in Europe!

We all know that the Kona and Niro will be relatively small numbers. VW are 3yrs+ from delivering anything meaningful in numbers. Tesla has its own network. What else is there?

Leaf will sell in the thousands in that timeframe. It doesn't have to be a case of one or the other. Both can happily exist side by side. It would be great if everything was CCS but its not but I'm just countering the somewhat scare tactics that ChaDeMo is dead/obsolete and by inference that the Leaf is a dodgy car to buy.

Shefwedfan · 30-08-2018 1:58pm

This is gone off track, I think the point might be is that other manufacturers are investing in networks or companies that run network. None of those are for chademo.

Nissan/etc seem to hope that government/private companies will install the charge points to cater for their cars. This might work in UK. Unfortunately in Ireland it seems to be the opposite. The Government seem to be blocking private companies and hoping that large corporate sponsored charging network will resolve the issue(Ionity, Tesla)

Not sure about 3 year+ on VW? they have already kicked off the ad campaign for ID range on facebook. Timelines seem to be running correct for full launch in 2020....

Soarer · 30-08-2018 2:08pm

grogi wrote: »

Don't play dumb - you know exactly what I mean.

Is that not par for the course around here?!

Shefwedfan · 30-08-2018 2:31pm

Soarer wrote: »

Is that not par for the course around here?!

Works for me :P

KCross · 30-08-2018 2:44pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

This is gone off track,

Indeed, I'll try to stop after this one!

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I think the point might be is that other manufacturers are investing in networks or companies that run network. None of those are for chademo.

Im only aware of three networks so far.... eCars, Tesla, Ionity.
Tesla is Tesla only and likely to stay that way.
Ionity is CCS only and no sod turned yet but imminent.
eCars is CCS and ChaDeMo.

No reason to believe that the eCars network as it expands (per their recent eTenders) won't continue to support ChaDeMo. Why wouldn't it?

btw, the ESB eTender was for 50kW max rapids so more of the same of what they already have basically, so I'd say ChaDeMo is quite likely to be part of that expansion and nothing to the contrary was mentioned at the LEV Taskforce meeting either and they were told by many that the rapids should be multi-headed.... they were told to use 100kW too but how and ever!

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not sure about 3 year+ on VW? they have already kicked off the ad campaign for ID range on facebook. Timelines seem to be running correct for full launch in 2020....

lol! VW have an ad campaign running ever since diesel gate. Every second article these days is about something brilliant VW are doing in the EV space but nothing on the ground actually happening.

They might deliver something for 2020 but I think they had targeted 2022 for the bigger numbers. I don't believe anything VW say until they put wheels on the ground, so I think I won't be too far off with 3+yrs for serious numbers of VW EV's in Ireland.

Shefwedfan · 30-08-2018 2:49pm

KCross wrote: »

.... eCars, Tesla, Ionity.
Tesla is Tesla only and likely to stay that way.
Ionity is CCS only and no sod turned yet but imminent.
eCars is CCS and ChaDeMo.

eCars is government run and to be honest nobody should be waitig for them to create a proper network. 7-8 years they are at it and its useless. Nothing to suggest in the next 7-8 years it will get any better.....

The 2 other networks, which have the backing of major car manufacturer do not support chademo.

Please note I am not saying chademois going to die anytime soon....I do think Nissan need to invest in a private network...

If Ionity was up and running in next 6 months and I had option of chademo v ccs..both the exact same cost, I wouldn't touch the chademo if I only had ecars as a network option

KCross · 30-08-2018 2:55pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

eCars is government run and to be honest nobody should be waitig for them to create a proper network. 7-8 years they are at it and its useless. Nothing to suggest in the next 7-8 years it will get any better.....

The 2 other networks, which have the backing of major car manufacturer do not support chademo.

Please note I am not saying chademois going to die anytime soon....I do think Nissan need to invest in a private network...

If Ionity was up and running in next 6 months and I had option of chademo v ccs..both the exact same cost, I wouldn't touch the chademo if I only had ecars as a network option

No disagreement on any of that other than the eCars expansion. Its hard to know what they will do. They have funding and a tender out. Lets see what happens.

Kia Niro EV

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