Tour de France Stage 15 - Limoux > Foix (185 km)

EC1000 · 22-07-2019 9:36pm

Angliru wrote: »

And it was heartbreaking for Contador in a sense as he went for Giro-Tour double and it really looked like prior to the Tour that he could do it. I really think if Contador hadn't gone out of his way to absolutely destroy the Giro that year and just won it without expending too much he might have done the double that year. To this day I've never witnessed someone make a mockery of his competitors like Contador did in that Giro.

Yes, and given that he was since stripped of that Giro I think you can guess why he was so good???? Why is it heartbreaking given that he has been proving to have been juicing?

retalivity · 22-07-2019 9:40pm

Angliru wrote: »

Pierre Latour is the one I'm most excited about, albeit his style isn't soft on the eyes. The TT skills are there and he's a pretty good climber. Seems quite frail though and gets injured and sick a good bit. Really exciting cyclist though.

I completely forgot about him, where did he go???

Angliru · 22-07-2019 9:40pm

EC1000 wrote: »

Yes, and given that he was since stripped of that Giro I think you can guess why he was so good???? Why is it heartbreaking given that he has been proving to have been juicing?

[Insert Nate Diaz quote here]

Angliru · 22-07-2019 9:43pm

retalivity wrote: »

I completely forgot about him, where did he go???

Injuries all year AFAIK. Should be right for the Vuelta though? The Tour has been fantastic but the Vuelta is shaping up to be a cracking edition again. A lot of big names should arrive fresh as well as quite a few fresh contenders.

Dr. Bre · 22-07-2019 9:43pm

retalivity wrote: »

I completely forgot about him, where did he go???

Good question where is Latour?

EC1000 · 22-07-2019 9:53pm

Angliru wrote: »

[Insert Nate Diaz quote here]

dastardly00 · 22-07-2019 9:53pm

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Good question where is Latour?

He is preparing for the Vuelta according to L'Equipe

https://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-route/Actualites/Pierre-latour-et-alexandre-geniez-preparent-la-vuelta/1040459

(I don't speak French... I'm just guessing that's what it says!)

MPFGLB · 22-07-2019 11:26pm

Angliru wrote: »

Injuries all year AFAIK. Should be right for the Vuelta though? The Tour has been fantastic but the Vuelta is shaping up to be a cracking edition again. A lot of big names should arrive fresh as well as quite a few fresh contenders.

What big names ?

Valverde , D Martinez, Chaves, Betencur , La Tour , Majka, maybe Adam Yates but probably as support

Not sure who else...

Dumoulin is not guaranteed as has a tear in his knee ligament
TJ will ride for EF
Dan Martin might ride it but never been a 2 GT man and Podgcar may lead
Pozzo will probably ride

Nico is riding GC and is usually better at the Vuelta
Kelderman is also riding for Sunweb

Not sure Carapaz will ride his 2nd GT ..not confirmed but Valverde is the leader for Movistar

Most big names are at the Tour and many dont do 2 GTs ...well not for GC anyway so hard to see what big names you mean ??

Angliru · 22-07-2019 11:59pm

MPFGLB wrote: »

What big names ?

Valverde , D Martinez, Chaves, Betencur , La Tour , Majka, maybe Adam Yates but probably as support

Not sure who else...

Dumoulin is not guaranteed as has a tear in his knee ligament
TJ will ride for EF
Dan Martin might ride it but never been a 2 GT man and Podgcar may lead
Pozzo will probably ride

Nico is riding GC and is usually better at the Vuelta
Kelderman is also riding for Sunweb

Not sure Carapaz will ride his 2nd GT ..not confirmed but Valverde is the leader for Movistar

Most big names are at the Tour and many dont do 2 GTs ...well not for GC anyway so hard to see what big names you mean ??

I'm being optimistic so I'm hopeful the likes of Carapaz and Dumoulin make it and haven't been keeping up to date with who has signed themselves off for the season but throw in Roglic and Lopez as well? Pretty good lineup if you ask me if you have a bit of optimism. Throw in guys like Dombrowski, Izagirre, Brambilla, Jungels who might all take part. You can also factor in one or two GC guys from the Tour pulling out sick soon. Uran always a good bet for that. Mas is goosed and I think he'll abandon soon.

MPFGLB · 23-07-2019 12:18am

Angliru wrote: »

I'm being optimistic so I'm hopeful the likes of Carapaz and Dumoulin make it and haven't been keeping up to date with who has signed themselves off for the season but throw in Roglic and Lopez as well? Pretty good lineup if you ask me if you have a bit of optimism. Throw in guys like Dombrowski, Izagirre, Brambilla, Jungels who might all take part. You can also factor in one or two GC guys from the Tour pulling out sick soon. Uran always a good bet for that. Mas is goosed and I think he'll abandon soon.

I m sure I heard Roglic wont ride GC at Vuleta and want to win the Worlds

MAL is a good possibility for the Vuelta though

But again no real big names...However that does not mean we dont get a fantastic race as we see at the Tour where many big names are missing

letape · 23-07-2019 1:20am

EC1000 wrote: »

Yes, and given that he was since stripped of that Giro I think you can guess why he was so good???? Why is it heartbreaking given that he has been proving to have been juicing?

There was never a finding that he had been “juicing” during his Giro or Tour in 2011. The CAS ban was back dated to Jan 2011, being the date of the initial Spanish Cycling Federation 12 month ban. Just a shame that the whole process took so long.

Decuc500 · 23-07-2019 9:03am

Angliru wrote: »

That was such an entertaining but heartbreaking tour. Not just for Voeckler but for Andy Schleck too. I was gutted Cadel Evans won, absolutely hated his tactics for riding and how they were always blowing smoke up his ass and all he did was follow wheels.

You were heartbroken for a Schleck? Those were the bad days of cycling when clean riders like Cadel Evans were up against dopers like Armstrong, Contador and Andy's brother Frank.

I'm reading Cadel Evans' autobiography at the moment. It's a great read. He approached cycling the right way and eventually got the results he deserved by riding clean. His success in that era should be applauded.

Dr. Bre · 23-07-2019 9:56am

Evans wasn’t the most exciting to watch but he was prob clean compared to most tour winners . I like to think Sastre also was. Don’t miss the blistering attacks of contador or Froome tbh..

EC1000 · 23-07-2019 1:55pm

letape wrote: »

There was never a finding that he had been “juicing” during his Giro or Tour in 2011. The CAS ban was back dated to Jan 2011, being the date of the initial Spanish Cycling Federation 12 month ban. Just a shame that the whole process took so long.

He was found to have been doping in 2010 and had a convincing win in 2011 which was then stripped from him. In the context of the original post on this issue, I think his failure to win the tour that year should be celebrated as opposed to anything else. You can choose to believe his excuses or not. Anyway, this if off topic to the thread. However, fur the purposes of a future for pro cycling, I would prefer not to eulogise over cheaters.

letape · 23-07-2019 2:02pm

EC1000 wrote: »

He was found to have been doping in 2010 and had a convincing win in 2011 which was then stripped from him. In the context of the original post on this issue, I think his failure to win the tour that year should be celebrated as opposed to anything else. You can choose to believe his excuses or not. Anyway, this if off topic to the thread. However, fur the purposes of a future for pro cycling, I would prefer not to eulogise over cheaters.

You had stated that “Yes, and given that he was since stripped of that Giro I think you can guess why he was so good????”

I was just pointing out that there has never been a suggestion that he did anything wrong in 2011. To people who aren’t familiar with that era, they may think that his ban and being stripped of that Giro title were due to a negative 2011 test.

Personally I would expect that as he was still progressing his appeal in respect of the 2010 finding and proposed 12 month ban at that time, that it’s very unlikely he was “juicing” (as you put it) in the 2011 Giro or Tour. We may never know of course, but that goes with every win since then.

Angliru · 23-07-2019 2:25pm

Decuc500 wrote: »

You were heartbroken for a Schleck? Those were the bad days of cycling when clean riders like Cadel Evans were up against dopers like Armstrong, Contador and Andy's brother Frank.

I'm reading Cadel Evans' autobiography at the moment. It's a great read. He approached cycling the right way and eventually got the results he deserved by riding clean. His success in that era should be applauded.

Entitled to your opinion but I disagree. I know you can't talk about this stuff on this forum but I do ask how one knows if anyone is clean? Doesn't test positive? Fair enough, innocent until proven guilty but Lance never publicly failed a test, neither did Riis, neither did Basso, neither did Rasmussen, neither did Hesjedal, neither did Ullrich. Now we all know these lads eventually admitted to doping or in some cases were linked to Operacion Puerto but what's to say Cadel Evans or Sastre doesn't have something like that happen to them in time to come. As far as I remember Ullrich was only confirmed to have doped when they retested his samples a decade later.

Maybe Evans and Sastre were clean, maybe there were not. One can't say conclusively either way. However I find it interesting/funny that the years they won they beat many many proven dopers. If they themselves were clean then they are two of the greatest cyclists ever considering everyone from Coppi to Anquetil to Merckx to Fignon to Armstrong to Pantani to Contador to Froome all have been shown to have taken something. You may believe guys like Hinault, Lemond, Indurain, Evans and Sastre are the outliers, fair enough. However I can't overlook the level they were at, the guys the beat. Innocent until guilty I guess, but to edit a quote Armstrong was famous for... I'm sorry I don't know if I believe in miracles.

Daroxtar · 23-07-2019 2:29pm

I often think the concepts of crime, punishment and rehabilitation get skewed badly towards medieval law in here.
Man did wrong, got caught, got punished. End of story?

Nope, not enough. Brand him on the forehead with a hot iron and shun him for life? Strip him of all worldly possessions, deny him the right to property or an heir, send him north to the wall??

Angliru · 23-07-2019 2:35pm

EC1000 wrote: »

He was found to have been doping in 2010 and had a convincing win in 2011 which was then stripped from him. In the context of the original post on this issue, I think his failure to win the tour that year should be celebrated as opposed to anything else. You can choose to believe his excuses or not. Anyway, this if off topic to the thread. However, fur the purposes of a future for pro cycling, I would prefer not to eulogise over cheaters.

Not saying Contador was clean then or ever but the amount they found was shown to have no performance enhancing effect. They more than less banned him out of making an example out of someone to try and derail the rife doping going on. That was around the prime CERA years. Now Contador's excuse was shady although many pulled the excuse and got away with it (Mexicans say it all the time) but it doesn't stand well with me that there's an asterisk and stripped titles next to his name, especially with such a small amount linked and Chris Froome gets no ban for being well over the limit and only the other day gets awarded another Vuelta. Same for someone like Heras who basically lawyered his way into getting his name 'cleared' just like Froome. No official asterisk to next to their names. Bjarne Riis still has his Tour win officially. Etc etc.

People are entitled to say they've no time for dopers and question why anyone would be a fan, but when you look at the most successful cyclists, the ones responsible for the prestige, money and whatever else you want to say that's in the sport, the vast majority have doped. Unfortunately cycling has a bad rep due to these guys but it is these same guys who have cycling a reputation in the first place.

If the sport was fair I'd love if everyone who's even linked to doping, that goes for even being a client of a famous dope doctor was banned for life and their lifetime achievements erased completely but the sport isn't fair, no sport is truly fair. So I just decide to follow and praise whoever brings excitement to the sport, who tries to prove themselves as elite. Maybe I'm idiotic for that and me and people like me are compounding the problem but I don't see how things will ever change. There's too much risk against it.

Tour de France Stage 15 - Limoux > Foix (185 km)

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