Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

bilston · 11-11-2020 11:55am

Jones carries quite well...I'd like to see him get a few more chances...but not at the expense of David McCann

Paul Smeenus · 11-11-2020 1:19pm

Yeah, I think that's where we are. I think he and Timoney came to Ulster at the same time - I certainly think of them as contemporaries. And in Coeztee's long injury absences, Timoney got in and Jones didn't.

I'd rather have Jones than Clive Ross or Mike McComish, but now we actually have young lads potentially breaking through, Jones has gotten less gametime than either of them did.

launish116 · 11-11-2020 1:58pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Yeah, I think that's where we are. I think he and Timoney came to Ulster at the same time - I certainly think of them as contemporaries. And in Coeztee's long injury absences, Timoney got in and Jones didn't.

I'd rather have Jones than Clive Ross or Mike McComish, but now we actually have young lads potentially breaking through, Jones has gotten less gametime than either of them did.

Little harsh on Ross, albeit he wasn’t a world beater. Not sure Jones has had enough time to prove he’s a step up on Ross, he’s definitely more mobile. But Ross could carry and he did make a match wining turnover resulting a kick for goal in one of his last appearances.

Paul Smeenus · 11-11-2020 2:50pm

Yeah - Ross was grand. No world-beater but never let us down. Not everyone can be Stephen ferris or Chis Henry.

But I think Jones could be / could have been a bit more handy.

launish116 · 11-11-2020 7:38pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

But I think Jones could be / could have been a bit more handy.

Agree, never really got the opportunity. Though think the boat has now sailed. He’s tad light for no8 and similarly seems to be an issue for our backrowers. Bar Sean Reidy who punches well above his weight.

Paul Smeenus · 11-11-2020 10:53pm

https://www.the42.ie/ireland-transition-defence-france-5262928-Nov2020/

Am enjoying the responses to this article so far...

I think there was literally more criticism of Stockdale flying out of the line to successfully intercept against Wales and score a try in the 2018 Six Nations than there has been of Sexton flying out of the line, missing his bloody tackle and giving the French a git-wrapped opportunity in our last game.

Burkie1203 · 12-11-2020 8:26am

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

https://www.the42.ie/ireland-transition-defence-france-5262928-Nov2020/

Am enjoying the responses to this article so far...

I think there was literally more criticism of Stockdale flying out of the line to successfully intercept against Wales and score a try in the 2018 Six Nations than there has been of Sexton flying out of the line, missing his bloody tackle and giving the French a git-wrapped opportunity in our last game.

I think Sexton identified that there was forwards on the outside and hoped by flying up he would either intercept or force the player in possession to truck it up

Paul Smeenus · 12-11-2020 9:06am

Burkie1203 wrote: »

I think Sexton identified that there was forwards on the outside and hoped by flying up he would either intercept or force the player in possession to truck it up

You're literally proving my point. I don't think if it had been Stockdale, there'd be posters talking about what he'd "hoped" would happen. They'd be tearing strips off him for getting the call wrong, leading to a French try.

I don't think any player abandons the defensive line hoping that a try will be scored against them. I imagine they all intend to force a play that will stop the opposition's attack. How fortunate for Sexton that he's assesed on his intentions, rather than whether he can pull these decisions off.

Paul Smeenus · 12-11-2020 9:14am

Didn't want to sound narky but you're literally doing precisely what I was complaining about.

launish116 · 12-11-2020 12:37pm

Worth a read!

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/rugby-stats-irfu-s-young-talent-pathway-is-bearing-fruit-in-the-pro14-1.4406610

Stewart Moore only under 23 to have played all games so far this season.

Paul Smeenus · 12-11-2020 12:45pm

launish116 wrote: »

Worth a read!

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/rugby-stats-irfu-s-young-talent-pathway-is-bearing-fruit-in-the-pro14-1.4406610

Stewart Moore only under 23 to have played all games so far this season.

It's interesting, but this lazy "Ah, I'll just look at this season in Pro14" approach completely warps a proper understanding of far along our <24s actually are.

Utah_Saint · 12-11-2020 1:31pm

launish116 wrote: »

Worth a read!

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/rugby-stats-irfu-s-young-talent-pathway-is-bearing-fruit-in-the-pro14-1.4406610

Stewart Moore only under 23 to have played all games so far this season.

Lyttle still only 23. Feels like he's been around for ages. He had a bad run with injuries. Hopefully he can put that all behind him.

bilston · 12-11-2020 2:39pm

Its definitely one of the encouraging things about the start the provinces have made to the season. Our young players are completely dominating the Pro 14. That's got to be a positive sign for the future for Ireland.

launish116 · 12-11-2020 3:03pm

bilston wrote: »

Its definitely one of the encouraging things about the start the provinces have made to the season. Our young players are
completely dominating the Pro 14. That's got to be a positive sign for the future for Ireland.

Encouraging indeed, we have still a bit to go, though for once the players are there!

Next season really could see the flood gates open for young players switching provinces.

bayern · 12-11-2020 3:07pm

launish116 wrote: »

Encouraging indeed, we have still a bit to go, though for once the players are there!

Next season really could see the flood gates open for young players switching provinces.

that's a leap to make, provincial loyalty remains despite the IRFU's attempts to undercut it.

and given the finances, we could see a lot of older more expensive players retire/move on.

kingofthekong · 12-11-2020 3:54pm

launish116 wrote: »

Encouraging indeed, we have still a bit to go, though for once the players are there!

Next season really could see the flood gates open for young players switching provinces.

I wouldnt say floodgates but more likely guys from leinster system or age grades being filtered out to other provinces

launish116 · 12-11-2020 3:58pm

bayern wrote: »

that's a leap to make, provincial loyalty remains despite the IRFU's attempts to undercut it.

and given the finances, we could see a lot of older more expensive players retire/move on.

I’m all for provincial loyalty.

This season already has had a few controversial academy/junior player move.

Also mentioned we have had a lot of young players presently getting game time and a lot of it. That’s great while Ireland camps running etc. When the seniors return, will those same young players be happy fighting for scraps again.

As you say finances are going to play a lot going forward. High paid seniors may move on/retire. This is were IFRU may interject and assist with more and more inter-provincial moves.

It’s coming wether we like it or not.

Only plus side I see is Ulster’s age bracket means, retaining a lot of players feasible (apart from centre).

kingofthekong · 12-11-2020 4:04pm

launish116 wrote: »

I’m all for provincial loyalty.

This season already has had a few controversial academy/junior player move.

Also mentioned we have had a lot of young players presently getting game time and a lot of it. That’s great while Ireland camps running etc. When the seniors return, will those same young players be happy fighting for scraps again.

As you say finances are going to play a lot going forward. High paid seniors may move on/retire. This is were IFRU may interject and assist with more and more inter-provincial moves.

It’s coming wether we like it or not.

Only plus side I see is Ulster’s age bracket means, retaining a lot of players feasible (apart from centre).

Interesting to see what happens with Ulster at center with: Hume, marshall, Moore, Mcloskey and Hyde

wonder if Mcloskey is eyeing up potential big money contracts abroad given lack of Ireland involvement

Hume, Moore and Hyde are all quality and I'm intrigued to see how that battle plays out

launish116 · 12-11-2020 4:09pm

kingofthekong wrote: »

Hume, Moore and Hyde are all quality and I'm intrigued to see how that battle plays out

Could throw Curtis into that category also, if he can get fit and throw the Concussion issues.

Could easily see Ulster fighting to keep McCloskey at the expense of Marshal.

Paul Smeenus · 12-11-2020 5:20pm

I know McCloksey gives us go-forward, but Marshall is a better defender, much better defensive organiser, better with boot and can play 12 or 13.

Burkie1203 · 12-11-2020 6:35pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

You're literally proving my point. I don't think if it had been Stockdale, there'd be posters talking about what he'd "hoped" would happen. They'd be tearing strips off him for getting the call wrong, leading to a French try.

I don't think any player abandons the defensive line hoping that a try will be scored against them. I imagine they all intend to force a play that will stop the opposition's attack. How fortunate for Sexton that he's assesed on his intentions, rather than whether he can pull these decisions off.

Well most people have pre determined ideas of how a player will have played and dont bother looking at what actually happened.

bilston · 12-11-2020 6:40pm

kingofthekong wrote: »

Interesting to see what happens with Ulster at center with: Hume, marshall, Moore, Mcloskey and Hyde

wonder if Mcloskey is eyeing up potential big money contracts abroad given lack of Ireland involvement

Hume, Moore and Hyde are all quality and I'm intrigued to see how that battle plays out

McCloskey is essential to Ulster until such times as ee uncover at least one and preferably two big ball carriers in the pack.

launish116 · 13-11-2020 2:17pm

Zebre will be on a slight high from almost turning over the Scarlets and Nagle will have a stormer against us no doubt. So what team we hoping for?

1. O’Sullivan
2. Andrew
3. Milasinovich
4. Treadwell
5. Carter
6. Rea Snr
7. Reidy
8. Allison
9. Cooney
10. Lowry
11. Faddes
12. Marshall/Stewart (could really do with a rest)
13. Hume
14. Lyttle
15. McIlroy

16. Mcburney
17. Mcgrath/McCall
18. Moore/O’Toole (if fit)
19. O’Connor
18. Murphy
19. McCann
20. Mathewson
21. Madigan

Would love a 6/2 split but have concerns that Marshall/Faddes/Hume aren’t fully fit, leading us to a conservative bench. Not sure I’d risk Coetzee if he has a niggle from last week. Without McCloskey, Rea really needs to step up.

*6 day turn around to Scarlets game, following week.

Paul Smeenus · 13-11-2020 2:39pm

launish116 wrote: »

Zebre will be on a slight high from almost turning over the Scarlets and Nagle will have a stormer against us no doubt. So what team we hoping for?

1. O’Sullivan
2. Andrew
3. Milasinovich
4. Treadwell
5. Carter
6. Rea Snr
7. Reidy
8. Allison
9. Cooney
10. Lowry
11. Faddes
12. Marshall/Stewart (could really do with a rest)
13. Hume
14. Lyttle
15. McIlroy

16. Mcburney
17. Mcgrath/McCall
18. Moore/O’Toole (if fit)
19. O’Connor
18. Murphy
19. McCann
20. Mathewson
21. Madigan

Would love a 6/2 split but have concerns that Marshall/Faddes/Hume aren’t fully fit, leading us to a conservative bench. Not sure I’d risk Coetzee if he has a niggle from last week. Without McCloskey, Rea really needs to step up.

*6 day turn around to Scarlets game, following week.

If we've six days until the Scarlets, we've got to let youngsters have a shot at Zebre. Wouldn't start Cooney if Mathewson is fit, nor Reidy. Nor Carter - if he is indeed in any way part responsible for our turnaround in set pieces, save him for the Scarlets.

launish116 · 13-11-2020 2:44pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

If we've six days until the Scarlets, we've got to let youngsters have a shot at Zebre. Wouldn't start Cooney if Mathewson is fit, nor Reidy. Nor Carter - if he is indeed in any way part responsible for our turnaround in set pieces, save him for the Scarlets.

Tricky one isn’t it.

Still need a team back bone there. Zebre could still be a banana skin. Might be a game of who needs rest and who can we rotate without completely changing the team.

6 day turn around might force Dans hand more than we’ve seen!

bilston · 13-11-2020 4:19pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

https://www.the42.ie/ireland-transition-defence-france-5262928-Nov2020/

Am enjoying the responses to this article so far...

I think there was literally more criticism of Stockdale flying out of the line to successfully intercept against Wales and score a try in the 2018 Six Nations than there has been of Sexton flying out of the line, missing his bloody tackle and giving the French a git-wrapped opportunity in our last game.

Will be interesting to see the narrative if the Irish lineout malfunctions this evening.

Hope it goes really well as I think we have a really strong tight 5 this evening

Paul Smeenus · 13-11-2020 4:33pm

bilston wrote: »

Will be interesting to see the narrative if the Irish lineout malfunctions this evening.

Hope it goes really well as I think we have a really strong tight 5 this evening

I think we know exactly who will get the blame.

If it's better, it'll be down to POM and Kelleher.

Paul Smeenus · 13-11-2020 5:02pm

Heineken Champions Cup Fixtures announced

Friday 11 December 2020
Ulster Rugby vs. Toulouse, 8pm at Kingspan Stadium (BT Sport)

Saturday 19 December 2020
Gloucester Rugby vs. Ulster Rugby, 3:15pm at Kingsholm Stadium (BT Sport)

Saturday 16 January 2021
Ulster Rugby vs. Gloucester Rugby, 1pm at Kingspan Stadium (Channel 4)

Sunday 24 January 2021
Toulouse vs. Ulster Rugby, 3.15pm (UK / Irish time) at Stade Ernest Wallon (BT Sport)

launish116 · 13-11-2020 5:11pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Heineken Champions Cup Fixtures announced

Friday 11 December 2020
Ulster Rugby vs. Toulouse, 8pm at Kingspan Stadium (BT Sport)

Saturday 19 December 2020
Gloucester Rugby vs. Ulster Rugby, 3:15pm at Kingsholm Stadium (BT Sport)

Saturday 16 January 2021
Ulster Rugby vs. Gloucester Rugby, 1pm at Kingspan Stadium (Channel 4)

Sunday 24 January 2021
Toulouse vs. Ulster Rugby, 3.15pm (UK / Irish time) at Stade Ernest Wallon (BT Sport)

Then throw in between them matches

December 26th Connacht v Ulster
January 2nd Ulster v Munster
January 9th Leinster v Ulster

That’s a serious 7 weeks of continuous rugby.

Paul Smeenus · 13-11-2020 5:20pm

launish116 wrote: »

Then throw in between them matches

December 26th Connacht v Ulster
January 2nd Ulster v Munster
January 9th Leinster v Ulster

That’s a serious 7 weeks of continuous rugby.

Oof

Paul Smeenus · 13-11-2020 5:20pm

I can see the weans togging out against Leinster away.

launish116 · 13-11-2020 5:30pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

I can see the weans togging out against Leinster away.

Indeed 7 weeks of testing our depth & rotation.

launish116 · 15-11-2020 1:03pm

Ulster team to play Zebre Rugby, Guinness PRO14 Round 6, Monday 16 November 2020, at Stadio Sergio Lanfranchi (kick-off 6pm UK / Irish time, live on Premier Sports):

(15-9) Michael Lowry, Craig Gilroy, Luke Marshall, Stewart Moore, Ethan McIlroy, Bill Johnston, Alby Mathewson;

(1-8) Eric O’Sullivan, John Andrew, Marty Moore, Alan O’Connor, Sam Carter (Capt.), Greg Jones, Jordi Murphy, Marcell Coetzee.

Replacements: Adam McBurney, Andrew Warwick, Gareth Milasinovich, David O’Connor, Sean Reidy, David Shanahan, Ian Madigan, Rob Lyttle.

awec · 15-11-2020 1:06pm

launish116 wrote: »

Then throw in between them matches

December 26th Connacht v Ulster
January 2nd Ulster v Munster
January 9th Leinster v Ulster

That’s a serious 7 weeks of continuous rugby.

We'll probably throw the games away to Connacht and Leinster. Normal service.

Paul Smeenus · 15-11-2020 1:21pm

launish116 wrote: »

Ulster team to play Zebre Rugby, Guinness PRO14 Round 6, Monday 16 November 2020, at Stadio Sergio Lanfranchi (kick-off 6pm UK / Irish time, live on Premier Sports):

(15-9) Michael Lowry, Craig Gilroy, Luke Marshall, Stewart Moore, Ethan McIlroy, Bill Johnston, Alby Mathewson;

(1-8) Eric O’Sullivan, John Andrew, Marty Moore, Alan O’Connor, Sam Carter (Capt.), Greg Jones, Jordi Murphy, Marcell Coetzee.

Replacements: Adam McBurney, Andrew Warwick, Gareth Milasinovich, David O’Connor, Sean Reidy, David Shanahan, Ian Madigan, Rob Lyttle.

Really? We're risking Coetzee away to Zebre?

Good to see Jones, McIlroy. Johnston. Moore (S) starting, Glad to see O'Connor Jnr on the bench.

I presume we're pushing for the 5.

launish116 · 15-11-2020 1:31pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Really? We're risking Coetzee away to Zebre?

Good to see Jones, McIlroy. Johnston. Moore (S) starting, Glad to see O'Connor Jnr on the bench.

I presume we're pushing for the 5.

Also thought Coetzee be rested! This would be the game for McCann/Allison.

Hume must be injured? That will be Stewarts 6th game in a row.

Also thought Marty Moore might of got a rest.

Was there ever a medical update? McGrath?

Locke_Lamora · 15-11-2020 1:42pm

Pretty disappointed with that bench, but we're obviously trying to pick up as may points as possible before the scheduled loss to Leinster.

Unlucky for Treadwell, he's been excellent and should be playing more.

A lot to like about that backline though - Moore gets another start, which is a big vote of confidence from the coaches, McIlroy gets his first start (I think) and Johnston gets game time to show what he's capable of. Lowry constantly improving at fullback.

launish116 · 15-11-2020 1:51pm

Locke_Lamora wrote: »

Pretty disappointed with that bench, but we're obviously trying to pick up as may points as possible before the scheduled loss to Leinster.

Unlucky for Treadwell, he's been excellent and should be playing more.

A lot to like about that backline though - Moore gets another start, which is a big vote of confidence from the coaches, McIlroy gets his first start (I think) and Johnston gets game time to show what he's capable of. Lowry constantly improving at fullback.

Think we’re maybe short in the centre with McCloskey away, Humes been awol for 3 weeks now. Curtis is still injured. Albeit great exposure for Stewart though.

Locke_Lamora · 15-11-2020 2:08pm

launish116 wrote: »

Think we’re maybe short in the centre with McCloskey away, Humes been awol for 3 weeks now. Curtis is still injured. Albeit great exposure for Stewart though.

Oh yea, forgot we're down a few centres. In a parallel universe Chris Farrell and Stuart Olding would be lining up for us tomorrow.

Paul Smeenus · 15-11-2020 2:28pm

Just looking at the other games we'll have to give youngsters a chance...

Barring any massive upheavals in form, and leaving aside inter-pros, which have their own selection logic, at home to Zebre and away to Dragons are the two that we could afford to allow youngsters to make mistakes. Scarlets maybe, although they might have turned a corner last night.

Would like a wee update on injuries as well - O'Toole and Curtis especially.

launish116 · 15-11-2020 2:37pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Would like a wee update on injuries as well - O'Toole and Curtis especially.

Wee clip of team training https://youtu.be/dbD9elIobhk

Have we had weekly medical updates this season?
McGrath, Hume potentially also injured? Faddes leg is seriously bandaged also.

Paul Smeenus · 15-11-2020 2:53pm

launish116 wrote: »

Wee clip of team training https://youtu.be/dbD9elIobhk

Have we had weekly medical updates this season?
McGrath, Hume potentially also injured? Faddes leg is seriously bandaged also.

Sexton and Tom Stewart amongst the youngsters in there, I think.

launish116 · 15-11-2020 3:04pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Sexton and Tom Stewart amongst the youngsters in there, I think.

Hayden Hyde also, if he fills out he’s gonna be bigger than most of our forwards.

bilston · 15-11-2020 3:46pm

Stewart Moore basically lost last season of his development to injury and Covid so I'm glad to see him get a run of games. He has slipped in there very nicely. Yes his defence needs to improve, but that's usually the way with young centres. Hume is a good example of this. His defence has come on a lot in the last 18 months to 2 years since he first played.

Glad to see Greg Jones get a start at 6...I think he is quite underrated, still disappointed we aren't seeing McCann or Allison. I guess they will get a run in the annual Christmas beating at the RDS. Also, as I said last week, Dan has to make sure he keeps the squad onside, he has to give the likes of Jones, Johnston and Shanahan game time.

Interesting back three. I've felt that Gilroy needed a run of games to rediscover his form and he is getting that now, so it's time for him to deliver. Ethan McIlroy seems an exciting prospect, his running style isn't unlike Tommy Bowe. I think we should watch his progress with interest.

Forecast for Parma is for mist tomorrow...hopefully it won't be impact upon our viewing of the match.

Locke_Lamora · 15-11-2020 4:12pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Sexton and Tom Stewart amongst the youngsters in there, I think.

Don't think Stewart was there, is he not out with a bad hamstring injury? Ben Carson was there I think - 1st year academy centre, but he's built a little like a hooker.

launish116 · 15-11-2020 4:39pm

Locke_Lamora wrote: »

Don't think Stewart was there, is he not out with a bad hamstring injury? Ben Carson was there I think - 1st year academy centre, but he's built a little like a hooker.

Aye Carson is floating around there with a beard.

Paul Smeenus · 15-11-2020 5:36pm

launish116 wrote: »

Aye Carson is floating around there with a beard.

Ah I saw the mop of curls and thought it was Stewart.

launish116 · 15-11-2020 6:12pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Ah I saw the mop of curls and thought it was Stewart.

Good to see Allison in the middle of it also.

Paul Smeenus · 16-11-2020 6:44pm

https://www.the42.ie/michael-lowry-u...67527-Nov2020/

Interesting from Lowry. Nice attitude to widening his skillset.

launish116 · 16-11-2020 7:07pm

How many times did Coetzee carriy in the build up to that try?

Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

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