Greta and the aristocrat sail the high seas to save the planet.

Feisar · 14-08-2019 2:16pm

Firstly her message is solid, we globally need to change or we are funked.

Now what sticks in the craw of average Joe's like myself is the holier than thou attitude while sailing about the world pretending to be green. What's the carbon footprint of producing one of those boats? Prince on Monaco on board for the craic, sure why not? I wonder what his carbon footprint was last year?

shesty has made the best post in this mess so far.

Very easy for Greta to tell us how to live, does she have any concept of the economics in play?

MarquisDeSad · 14-08-2019 2:23pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

The fact the Greta Thunberg is young is the point. It’s her generation that mine and the previous generations have f’ed over by our recklessness. She’s become a symbol for that.

When she found out the dangers her generation faces, she got depressed. Instead of remaining depressed, she took action and, with the Youth Strike, created a movement that just might have an impact on our politicians today. She’s a symbol of action, not words, and with the clock ticking towards a climate catastrophe, that’s exactly the kind of thing we need.

So did Boyan Slat - and he started a company that is cleaning up the oceans plastic, and it's working !!

No one gives a sh1t about him tho, he doesn't virtue signal enough.
And I know I am banging his drum a lot, but it really pisses me off that he gets FA regognition!

He gets alot of media attention. Him being ignored is all in your head.

Aoife2017 · 14-08-2019 2:26pm

With the mass population of reality stars/ influencers/ Kardashians /love islanders etc, I think it’s refreshing that teenagers have someone like Greta to aspire to. Whatever the thoughts on the cause, at least she’s setting a positive example for an age group that seem to have very little to choose from these days.

seamus · 14-08-2019 2:35pm

Feisar wrote: »

Very easy for Greta to tell us how to live, does she have any concept of the economics in play?

Honestly, the economics are irrelevant.

It's like complaining about the price of a Big Mac while the ocean waves are banging up against the front door of the McDonalds.

No, nobody can really make the change quickly, and governments need to work on ways to assist.

But we also need to wake up to the reality that this is not going to be easy. Our costs are going to go up. Our standard of living will probably drop, we'll probably all move back to having one car, not two. We cannot continue living our lives the way we do, and combat climate change.

We will have to change the way we live our lives, because otherwise it's all for nothing.

All the complaints that you can't afford an eco-friendly car for your kids, or that your chinese-made iPhone has 50% carbon tax on it will seem ridiculous when you have to watch your grandchildren face the prospect of actual extinction within their lifetimes.

CrankyHaus · 14-08-2019 2:42pm

seamus wrote: »

Honestly, the economics are irrelevant.

It's like complaining about the price of a Big Mac while the ocean waves are banging up against the front door of the McDonalds.

No, nobody can really make the change quickly, and governments need to work on ways to assist.

But we also need to wake up to the reality that this is not going to be easy. Our costs are going to go up. Our standard of living will probably drop, we'll probably all move back to having one car, not two. We cannot continue living our lives the way we do, and combat climate change.

We will have to change the way we live our lives, because otherwise it's all for nothing.

All the complaints that you can't afford an eco-friendly car for your kids, or that your chinese-made iPhone has 50% carbon tax on it will seem ridiculous when you have to watch your grandchildren face the prospect of actual extinction within their lifetimes.

Or perhaps even go down to one Ocean Racing Yacht per family, not two.

The economics are absolutely relevant and in fact are essential to making climate policies work.

How much tax avoidance does Monaco facilitate each year and how much of a contribution would this money make towards climate policy?

MarquisDeSad · 14-08-2019 2:44pm

CrankyHaus wrote: »

seamus wrote: »

Honestly, the economics are irrelevant.

It's like complaining about the price of a Big Mac while the ocean waves are banging up against the front door of the McDonalds.

No, nobody can really make the change quickly, and governments need to work on ways to assist.

But we also need to wake up to the reality that this is not going to be easy. Our costs are going to go up. Our standard of living will probably drop, we'll probably all move back to having one car, not two. We cannot continue living our lives the way we do, and combat climate change.

We will have to change the way we live our lives, because otherwise it's all for nothing.

All the complaints that you can't afford an eco-friendly car for your kids, or that your chinese-made iPhone has 50% carbon tax on it will seem ridiculous when you have to watch your grandchildren face the prospect of actual extinction within their lifetimes.

Or perhaps even go down to one Ocean Racing Yacht per family, not two.

The economics are absolutely relevant and in fact are essential to making climate policies work.

How much tax avoidance does Monaco facilitate each year and how much of a contribution would this money make towards climate policy?

This is a cop out argument.

jackofalltrades · 14-08-2019 2:53pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Why is her coming from a wealthy background problematic for people? Ok so rich people are more empowered to make more environmentally friendly choices because our economy is set up to make unsustainable choices cheap. That's why she speaks to world leaders rather than ordinary folks who have less options at their disposal.

Wealthy people with more disposable income are significantly more insulated from the economic costs of climate change.
It's going to be far less of an issue for them.

seamus wrote: »

Honestly, the economics are irrelevant.

It's like complaining about the price of a Big Mac while the ocean waves are banging up against the front door of the McDonalds.

No, nobody can really make the change quickly, and governments need to work on ways to assist.

But we also need to wake up to the reality that this is not going to be easy. Our costs are going to go up. Our standard of living will probably drop, we'll probably all move back to having one car, not two. We cannot continue living our lives the way we do, and combat climate change.

We will have to change the way we live our lives, because otherwise it's all for nothing.

All the complaints that you can't afford an eco-friendly car for your kids, or that your chinese-made iPhone has 50% carbon tax on it will seem ridiculous when you have to watch your grandchildren face the prospect of actual extinction within their lifetimes.

The economics are irrelevant

The economics are the most important part of this debate.
If it was a cheap easy fix we'd have done it already.
How do you expect someone to buy a car they can't afford?
No amount of concern for the future will make up for the fact that if you can't afford something then you can't afford it.

CrankyHaus · 14-08-2019 2:55pm

MarquisDeSad wrote: »

This is a cop out argument.

No it's not. It's highlighting that the biggest challenge of our times needs more than a bunch of rich people swanning around in their super yachts to solve it.

We have a global economy based on ever increasing consumption. This model will have to be removed or significantly reformed to address climate change. The Thunberg family and their friends are part of the elite of this system, they profit from it and perpetuate it, and real change will not come from them.

MarquisDeSad · 14-08-2019 3:04pm

CrankyHaus wrote: »

MarquisDeSad wrote: »

This is a cop out argument.

No it's not. It's highlighting that the biggest challenge of our times needs more than a bunch of rich people swanning around in their super yachts to solve it.

We have a global economy based on ever increasing consumption. This model will have to be removed or significantly reformed to address climate change. The Thunberg family and their friends are part of the elite of this system, they profit from it and perpetuate it, and real change will not come from them.

It's a cop out argument. Nothing will be done with your attitude.

Kid Charlemagne · 14-08-2019 3:06pm

CrankyHaus wrote: »

The Thunberg family and their friends are part of the elite of this system, they profit from it and perpetuate it, and real change will not come from them.

Now you're just spouting off the top of your head. Classic doublespeak

;);)

:pac::pac::pac:

weldoninhio · 14-08-2019 3:09pm

MarquisDeSad wrote: »

He gets alot of media attention. Him being ignored is all in your head.

I'd literally never heard of him before this thread.

CrankyHaus · 14-08-2019 3:14pm

MarquisDeSad wrote: »

It's a cop out argument. Nothing will be done with your attitude.

"something must be done"
"This is something"
About sums up the level of your reasoning.

weldoninhio · 14-08-2019 3:15pm

Why is the kid not in school?? I know it is the summer, but shes been droning on for months, if not years now.

Kid Charlemagne · 14-08-2019 3:17pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Why is the kid not in school?? I know it is the summer

:):):):pac:

Gatling · 14-08-2019 3:17pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Why is the kid not in school?? I know it is the summer, but shes been droning on for months, if not years now.

Home schooled ?

suicide_circus · 14-08-2019 3:18pm

ah leave her at it. she'll have a great career as a UN ambassador eating pyramids of ferrero rocher on private jets.

One eyed Jack · 14-08-2019 3:22pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Greta is receiving ferocious criticism, which means a nerve has been struck. The personal attacks from some quarters highlighting her autism are unwarranted. I don't doubt her sincerity for a minute. Good luck to the young woman.

The child herself isn’t receiving ferocious criticism. It’s the adults who are putting a child in the position they have done for their own gain, are receiving ferocious criticism, and rightly so. Attempting to use a child as a shield to hide behind is an attempt to shield their own beliefs above criticism while using a child to represent those beliefs at the same time. People have been doing it since baby Jesus. It’s not new.

Also, because “Asperger’s syndrome” is perceived as a modern affliction in Western society, it wasn’t their critics who introduced that into the discussion, it was the people who are promoting her as a modern Messiah - it adds value to their social currency among those people who share their political beliefs.

I don’t for a minute doubt her sincerity either. I am however absolutely cynical of the adults who surround her and promote her as the modern Messiah. That’s what I find perverse about the whole thing, the attempt to have people look the other way while there is enormous sums of money and politics involved in the “climate crisis” movement.

If it were as benign as you’re making out that it’s just a child who wants to make a difference and change the future for young people of her generation, I’d say fair play and I’d absolutely get behind that and encourage them in every way. But this so-called “movement” bears all the hallmarks of a cult, frankly.

Thargor wrote: »

I get a very disturbing vibe from people like the OP and loons that show up ranting about her in any climate change threads, not suggesting paedophilia, but it's just bizarre that a young girl with an interest in environmentalism or politics triggers such intense negative feelings in so many adult males, this isn't just 'oh Leonardo DiCaprio or Al Gore are at it again', they're literally foaming at the mouth over it and flinging slurs at her and her family. Why? Something definitely not right about it.

The OP referred to the child as a “climate saint”, hardly vitriolic compared to much of the nonsense emanating from the people who are using the child to further their own beliefs about those who do not support their beliefs. This child is being presented to the UN where they will be expected to appeal to a room full of middle-aged and old men so your notions that you get the creeps from her critics, also apply to those people who are pimping her out to old men to further their own beliefs. Anyone can do what you’ve just done and present a narrative in a way that suits them to paint those opposed to their beliefs as unsavoury types.

It’s not the child herself that evokes any kind of a reaction (at least not among critics of the cult; for cult followers she is their Messiah - a positive symbol of hope so to speak). It’s the adults attempting to shield themselves from criticism for their beliefs by using a child that I’m critical of. A young person with an interest in environmental issues and politics is good. A young persons interest in environmental issues and politics being exploited by the adults who surround that child for their own gain - that’s worthy of criticism in and of itself, apart from any criticism of their beliefs.

MarquisDeSad · 14-08-2019 3:23pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

MarquisDeSad wrote: »

He gets alot of media attention. Him being ignored is all in your head.

I'd literally never heard of him before this thread.

Yes.. And there are people who haven't heard of Greta thuneberg before this thread.

He isn't being ignored. As the other poster is claiming.

MarquisDeSad · 14-08-2019 3:24pm

CrankyHaus wrote: »

MarquisDeSad wrote: »

It's a cop out argument. Nothing will be done with your attitude.

"something must be done"
"This is something"
About sums up the level of your reasoning.

Nope

Your argument is a cop out. I've seen it hundreds of times before on this site and others.

Kid Charlemagne · 14-08-2019 3:25pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

I'd literally never heard of him before this thread.

You may not have but the UN and Forbes had. You seem to love him but have an issue with the female activist :eek:

Nermal · 14-08-2019 3:26pm

MarquisDeSad wrote: »

It's a cop out argument. Nothing will be done with your attitude.

Nothing will be done anyway.

The billions of people in Africa, Asia and South America, born and yet to be born - all of them want the lifestyle you have, and who are you to tell them they can't have it? Who is Greta?

You can walk into a supermarket and buy for pennies things shipped from across the globe, and fly there yourself for what you earn in a day. Your soggy paper straw is pointless.

You live close to the peak of human civilisation, just enjoy the ride.

suicide_circus · 14-08-2019 3:27pm

Thargor wrote: »

I get a very disturbing vibe from people like the OP and loons that show up ranting about her in any climate change threads, not suggesting paedophilia, but it's just bizarre that a young girl with an interest in environmentalism or politics triggers such intense negative feelings in so many adult males, this isn't just 'oh Leonardo DiCaprio or Al Gore are at it again', they're literally foaming at the mouth over it and flinging slurs at her and her family. Why? Something definitely not right about it.

so the people unconvinced by this girl are the sinister weirdos rather than those exploiting and fawning over her?

MarquisDeSad · 14-08-2019 3:27pm

Nermal wrote: »

MarquisDeSad wrote: »

It's a cop out argument. Nothing will be done with your attitude.

Nothing will be done anyway.

The billions of people in Africa, Asia and South America, born and yet to be born - all of them want the lifestyle you have, and who are you to tell them they can't have it? Who is Greta?

You can walk into a supermarket and buy for pennies things shipped from across the globe, and fly there yourself for what you earn in a day. Your soggy paper straw is pointless.

You live close to the peak of human civilisation, just enjoy the ride.

Meh... Nice bit of fatalism there.

Boom_Bap · 14-08-2019 3:29pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Why is the kid not in school?? I know it is the summer, but shes been droning on for months, if not years now.

She is actually in a gap year at the moment, but she also has tutors with her.

I personally think that she is an incredible young lady and I hope that her name continues to resonate and make positive noise.

Kid Charlemagne · 14-08-2019 3:31pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The child herself isn’t receiving ferocious criticism.

Not true, not correct.

Kid Charlemagne · 14-08-2019 3:35pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

This child is being presented to the UN where they will be expected to appeal to a room full of middle-aged and old men so your notions that you get the creeps from her critics, also apply to those people who are pimping her out to old men to further their own beliefs.

Disgusting way to phrase your argument.

Anyway you haven't put one solid fact behind anything you've said. Just paranoid ranting about cults, and weird nonsense about Asperger's.

suicide_circus · 14-08-2019 3:37pm

Kid Charlemagne wrote: »

Disgusting way to phrase your argument

he's only responding to an earlier post which ran with the "I'm not saying her critics are paedophiles BUT...." argument

weldoninhio · 14-08-2019 3:42pm

Kid Charlemagne wrote: »

You may not have but the UN and Forbes had. You seem to love him but have an issue with the female activist :eek:

I seem to love a guy I've never heard of before. That's, interesting, to say the least.

One eyed Jack · 14-08-2019 3:44pm

Kid Charlemagne wrote: »

Disgusting way to phrase your argument.

Anyway you haven't put one solid fact behind anything you've said. Just paranoid ranting about cults, and weird nonsense about Asperger's.

I was giving my opinion in response to other people’s opinions and suddenly you’re looking for a factual discussion?

Get in the boat :pac:

Dakota Dan · 14-08-2019 3:48pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Why is her coming from a wealthy background problematic for people? Ok so rich people are more empowered to make more environmentally friendly choices because our economy is set up to make unsustainable choices cheap. That's why she speaks to world leaders rather than ordinary folks who have less options at their disposal.

Ingmar rentzhog published her mother’s book the same time Greta hit the headlines and he just so happens to have worldwide media connections. Her mother is an opera singer and her father an actor her grandfather was also famous. Even though she comes from a wealthy family she dresses like an 8 year old pauper.

shesty · 14-08-2019 3:51pm

seamus wrote: »

Honestly, the economics are irrelevant.

It's like complaining about the price of a Big Mac while the ocean waves are banging up against the front door of the McDonalds.

No, nobody can really make the change quickly, and governments need to work on ways to assist.

But we also need to wake up to the reality that this is not going to be easy. Our costs are going to go up. Our standard of living will probably drop, we'll probably all move back to having one car, not two. We cannot continue living our lives the way we do, and combat climate change.

We will have to change the way we live our lives, because otherwise it's all for nothing.

All the complaints that you can't afford an eco-friendly car for your kids, or that your chinese-made iPhone has 50% carbon tax on it will seem ridiculous when you have to watch your grandchildren face the prospect of actual extinction within their lifetimes.

Economics are the whole point.
Because if they weren't, then we could all make these changes tomorrow.It is because of the economics that these changes will be so slow to come and why it is so hard to push them.

Dakota Dan · 14-08-2019 3:59pm

Nermal wrote: »

Nothing will be done anyway.

The billions of people in Africa, Asia and South America, born and yet to be born - all of them want the lifestyle you have, and who are you to tell them they can't have it? Who is Greta?

You can walk into a supermarket and buy for pennies things shipped from across the globe, and fly there yourself for what you earn in a day. Your soggy paper straw is pointless.

You live close to the peak of human civilisation, just enjoy the ride.

Back to the Stone everyone, you’re worst than any apocalypse prophet.

Kid Charlemagne · 14-08-2019 4:00pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

he's only responding to an earlier post which ran with the "I'm not saying her critics are paedophiles BUT...." argument

Well not exactly but yeah that's also weird and disgusting.

Kid Charlemagne · 14-08-2019 4:02pm

shesty wrote: »

Economics are the whole point.
Because if they weren't, then we could all make these changes tomorrow.It is because of the economics that these changes will be so slow to come and why it is so hard to push them.

Sadly this is very true.

Hector Savage · 14-08-2019 4:02pm

MarquisDeSad wrote: »

He gets alot of media attention. Him being ignored is all in your head.

Bollocks!
ask anyone on the street have you heard about GT - must will have, ask about Slatt most won't have a clue

Tell me how · 14-08-2019 4:12pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

So did Boyan Slat - and he started a company that is cleaning up the oceans plastic, and it's working !!

No one gives a sh1t about him tho, he doesn't virtue signal enough.
And I know I am banging his drum a lot, but it really pisses me off that he gets FA regognition!

Not really. There are several reports as to how the device failed and part of it broke apart. Maybe it will be fixed but it is not looking too good for it.

Also, that shifts the focus to clean up rather than prevention.

Greta is trying to focus peoples attention to moving towards the most preferred action in terms in reducing impact on the climate.

Boyan's system (while laudible) still would suggest that using excessive packaging and single use plastics is ok as long as we can clean up the mess. That is not the case.

Gatling · 14-08-2019 4:16pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

Bollocks!
ask anyone on the street have you heard about GT - must will have, ask about Slatt most won't have a clue

Has it something to do with he's not courting media or public attention.

Most people know will have heard about elon musk but feck all people can tell you about Nikola Tesla

Eric Cartman · 14-08-2019 4:18pm

Ordinary people : “I think this is a bit alarmist”
Climate tax grabbers : “harassing children again i see”
Ordinary people : “but maybe we need to try other things except taxes or focus on nuclear”
Climate tax grabbers : “look, theyre assaulting young girls on the internet”
Ordinary people : “im just saying china and africa have a lot to answer for, we need solutions that arent just middle class cash grabs”
Climate tax grabbers : “why dont you pick on somebody who’s not a young girl with a disability”

Basically their entire strategy with greta

14-08-2019 4:21pm

MarquisDeSad wrote: »

Yes.. And there are people who haven't heard of Greta thuneberg before this thread.

He isn't being ignored. As the other poster is claiming.

Everyone has heard of her. No idea who this other guy (girl?) is, and I'm pretty active on the auld social media.

Tell me how · 14-08-2019 4:23pm

It's all too predictable the people on this thread trying to undermine Greta's message.

No doubt they agree with Kelly's view. Smart and capable lady of course, just reccently nominated to represent USA in UN.............:eek:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1099115117436960768

James Brown · 14-08-2019 4:24pm

She's wasting her time with Trump but it's the general public that are our best hope and if she helps sway a few of them, great.

The powers that be are only interested in the environment if they can make money on it. That's why the go to is always taxes and charges. They could just as easily give incentives for solar power and the like. I'd be okay with FG giving Dinny the sole solar power supply contract for the country if it was a genuine help to the environment, chances are they'd want to meter your solar panel the more sun you soaked.

xckjoo · 14-08-2019 4:26pm

CrankyHaus wrote: »

No it's not. It's highlighting that the biggest challenge of our times needs more than a bunch of rich people swanning around in their super yachts to solve it.

We have a global economy based on ever increasing consumption. This model will have to be removed or significantly reformed to address climate change. The Thunberg family and their friends are part of the elite of this system, they profit from it and perpetuate it, and real change will not come from them.

This is the biggest problem we face. We can't build our way out of over consumption.

Tell me how · 14-08-2019 4:33pm

xckjoo wrote: »

This is the biggest problem we face. We can't build our way out of over consumption.

That's it in a nut shell.

And any reduction in consumption will mean a reduction in tax revenue earned. We are in a position where the government doesn't have enough money to spend so it is caught in a catch 22 of offering incentives which would both cost money and result in reduced income and likely having to cut spending or services which is giving the electorate a stick to beat them with.

Ideally, we, as a society would work towards change but mob mentality has us ploughing along and saying someone else should fix it.

MarquisDeSad · 14-08-2019 4:47pm

Deleted User wrote: »

MarquisDeSad wrote: »

Yes.. And there are people who haven't heard of Greta thuneberg before this thread.

He isn't being ignored. As the other poster is claiming.

Everyone has heard of her. No idea who this other guy (girl?) is, and I'm pretty active on the auld social media.

He's been featured on the BBC and Time magazines. Just because you haven't heard of him doesn't mean he's unknown.

One eyed Jack · 14-08-2019 4:50pm

Tell me how wrote: »

It's all too predictable the people on this thread trying to undermine Greta's message.

No doubt they agree with Kelly's view. Smart and capable lady of course, just reccently nominated to represent USA in UN.............:eek:

I’m not trying to undermine “Greta’s message”, jesus, really? Environmental issues have been a thing since the Agricultural and Industrial Revolutions, equally doomsayers have been around since then too, it was never just “Greta’s message”. I’ve known about these issues since I was indeed Greta’s age myself.

I disagree with the people who are promoting their doomsayer nonsense like “Extinction Rebellion” and so on, with the latest scientific evidence suggesting that the one thing which individuals can do which will have the greatest impact on reducing human consumption and benefitting the environment, is to have less children -

The climate mitigation gap: education and government recommendations miss the most effective individual actions

Factually scientific of course, but they’re completely nuts :pac:

Tell me how · 14-08-2019 4:54pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I’m not trying to undermine “Greta’s message”, jesus, really? Environmental issues have been a thing since the Agricultural and Industrial Revolutions, equally doomsayers have been around since then too, it was never just “Greta’s message”. I’ve known about these issues since I was indeed Greta’s age myself.

I disagree with the people who are promoting their doomsayer nonsense like “Extinction Rebellion” and so on, with the latest scientific evidence suggesting that the one thing which individuals can do which will have the greatest impact on reducing human consumption and benefitting the environment, is to have less children -

The climate mitigation gap: education and government recommendations miss the most effective individual actions

Factually scientific of course, but they’re completely nuts :pac:

I think it's fair to call it's Greta's message on a thread in which she is the subject of the discussion.

lolo62 · 14-08-2019 5:07pm

I love the way she's ruffling so many feathers. A little girl speaking from a place of power seems to be just too much for some peoples inflated egos.
She is a great role model for young people and her message, how I receive it anyway, is to take responsibility, take action and challenge dysfunctional authority. Rock and roll is dead and the next generation need people who push against the establishment to look up to. I look up to her and im 39!

suicide_circus · 14-08-2019 5:12pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Ordinary people : “I think this is a bit alarmist”
Climate tax grabbers : “harassing children again i see”
Ordinary people : “but maybe we need to try other things except taxes or focus on nuclear”
Climate tax grabbers : “look, theyre assaulting young girls on the internet”
Ordinary people : “im just saying china and africa have a lot to answer for, we need solutions that arent just middle class cash grabs”
Climate tax grabbers : “why dont you pick on somebody who’s not a young girl with a disability”

Basically their entire strategy with greta

that's an extremely cynical assessment.

cynical and accurate.

RobbingBandit · 14-08-2019 5:14pm

Lyanna Mormont Frozen style, I don't want to live in this world anymore.

One eyed Jack · 14-08-2019 5:22pm

Tell me how wrote: »

I think it's fair to call it's Greta's message on a thread in which she is the subject of the discussion.

Yeah I suppose fair point and I can see where you’re coming from now when you explain it that way, but I disagree that it is and ever was “Greta’s message” as though she’s coming up with the ideas behind the message.

She’s having her strings pulled there by the adults surrounding her and elevating her to carry their message to a Western audience on the political and social stages that would make a world renowned puppet master blush.

I do agree with your earlier points generally though about the need to change attitudes and human behaviours in order to create a culture that cares about environmental issues. I also think that between the Agricultural, Industrial and now the Technological Evolution (as opposed to revolution, because technology isn’t that revolutionary, it’s evolutionary) that mankind is both contributing to the demise of our environment, and to the perpetuation and survival of humanity, and the survival of humanity will always win out over concerns about the environment or our natural ecosystem.

Just look at how the WHO were scoffed at when they suggested that a plant based diet was healthy alternative to our current diets and how it was also healthier for the environment - inarguably scientific and factually based, totally plausible at least. But it places a greater burden on Governments and individuals to change their current lifestyles that they have become accustomed to, and that’s why the argument that those measures would force humanity to return to the Stone Age is such a powerful one - because that’s the reality of it. Humans would need to be extinct in order to actually effect any sort of positive effect on our environment.

Who are we supposed to be saving the environment for if saving the environment means the extinction of the human species? It’s not future generations of humanity anyway, we know that much.

Greta and the aristocrat sail the high seas to save the planet.

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