Options for a council owned shooting range.

Mellor · 02-05-2023 3:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120544691#Comment_120544691

Wouldn’t all government buildings/facilities/projects be provided by private companies. As in the architects, engineers, contractors etc are all private businesses.

The was a Defence tender earlier in the year To upgrade the Army range. Curious as to the extent.

magicbastarder · 02-05-2023 3:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120546061#Comment_120546061

i, as joe soap public, can go to my local municipal golf course and book a round. i, as joe soap public, cannot go to a rifle range and book a round because i don't have a gun.

if the council spend money on land and facilities, it should be a facility open to everyone. a shooting range is not.

there's also the argument that the vast majority of your sample list are 'active' activities, i.e. for people to get up and move about, so there's a public health argument to be made there too. shooting is not a sport which i've ever heard any health benefits being claimed for.

BattleCorp · 02-05-2023 3:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120546782#Comment_120546782

It's certainly a stress relieving activity for me. That's a health benefit for me at least. But yeah, I can't see anyone convincing a council that there's health benefits to shooting.

Grizzly 45 · 02-05-2023 10:20pm

shooting is not a sport which i've ever heard any health benefits being claimed for.

Try shooting biathalon. Cross-country skiing with target shooting with a rifle. Anyone who does this shooting discipline is a peak athlete.

Upper body and arm strength conditioning...A little challenge,grab the missus clothes iron and hold it out straight-armed for five minutes straight with no wobbles or movement. Whatsoever. An average domestic iron weighs about as much as an average target pistol Any little wobble or shake in your arm can throw your shot. The best pistol-shot lads and lasses have excellent upper-body conditioning.

Drag a 80lb stag carcass a good mile to your nearest road thru a bog or up or down a steep hill, along with a 6lb rifle as well plus ancillary gear. You'll soon learn the value of some cardio and weight training before the season starts.

magicbastarder · 02-05-2023 10:22pm

i don't think council firing ranges would be offering the health benefits of dragging stag carcasses around? and the fitness aspect of biathlon is surely due to the skiing, not the shooting.

Grizzly 45 · 02-05-2023 10:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548521#Comment_120548521

No I'm just refuting your point of the lack of health benefits concerned with shooting sports.

Grizzly 45 · 02-05-2023 10:36pm

Main reason you wont see a council shooting range is Insurance RISK AVERSION.

If insurance companies are fleecing adventure sports sites, kiddie play areas,laser tag games etc in our ultra litigation-happy society[we are 2nd onto the USA these days].How much of an insurance premium do you think a council will have to carry for something like this?

Zxthinger · 02-05-2023 10:44pm

Insurance is generally covered by the entrants and not the host.. at least to some extent..

Aure just look at the state of the footpaths and cycle lanes in places.. Who’s covering the claims on that mess..

I dare say there’d be no claims from a small air rifle range compared to the litigation that befalls the street scape.

Jesus lads. I shot air rifles in Spain on holidays on a small outdoor range that the hotel ran., That event was offered on a holiday for relaxation and enjoyment..

Mellor · 03-05-2023 3:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120546782#Comment_120546782

I don't think that golf example works.

You say Joe Soap can't go to a range a book a round if he doesn't don't own a gun. He also cannot go to a golf course and book a round unless he owns a set of clubs and other equipment.

And sure, some golf courses will let you rent clubs. So too could could a range.

BSA International · 03-05-2023 5:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120546782#Comment_120546782

Physically disabled people eg in wheelchairs, can shoot ....... or should the council only provide facilities for able bodied people. Shooting is a sport, same as any other.

magicbastarder · 03-05-2023 7:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549002#Comment_120549002

What would be the law about me borrowing a gun from my friend and using it on a public range?

magicbastarder · 03-05-2023 7:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548560#Comment_120548560

Take away the non-shooting element of the biathlon (the skiing). What health benefits are you left with?

tehbaggins · 03-05-2023 10:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549097#Comment_120549097

Breathing control, pulse control, mental state, focus, trigger discipline, muscle control, fine motor control... And that's just the shooting part. Don't overlook the mental health aspect of getting out of the house, meeting people, discovering a new interest or hobby and all the other things that will happen at a range.

Grizzly 45 · 03-05-2023 10:54am

Thats Spain or any other country with cop on in their legislation!Most countries dont classify air/gas powerd arms as firearms in their legislation and will sell them to anyone over 18 or with parenteal consent.I had one in Germany as a kid at age 12.Plus they come down like a ton of bricks on the parents for any misuse by their children of air guns or whatever.You dont have little scrotes knocking around the streets of Germany with 90 convictions of all types and parents getting away with excuses of broken homes and being on the dole to not being able to control them.They are gone into state care long before it gets to that level.Plus just about every village has a little air rifle shooting range in the back of the local pub on a couple nights a week.A lot of this goes back too to countries that had a tradition of militas being drawn from the citizenery.Like Spain,France and Germany.We never had that in Ireland .

Yeah ,so some little scrote robs the air pistol from the stand and goes and holds up the local shop because the teen attendent was too busy playing with his phone to pay attention to his customers or was distracted by a ruse to get one of the guns.Remember they are classified as firearms here,same as a 9mm pistol or shotgun.So imagine how much fun the press would have with that one.

We cant have nice things here in Ireland because simply said some morons will abuse whatever it is,and ruin it for the rest of us.There are still plenty of professional claim fakers out there,and this would be a gold mine to them.

Grizzly 45 · 03-05-2023 10:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549074#Comment_120549074

Not going to happen!You can't borrow anyones firearm here unless you are liscensed to that particular gun.So you borrowing a gun and sodding off to wherever is breaking the law on so many levels.

magicbastarder · 03-05-2023 11:10am

that's what i expected - so Mellor's point about not being able to golf because you don't own clubs is not a valid comparison with a shooting range.

and i could buy a secondhand set of clubs for a couple of hundred euro probably, and not have to inform the gardai and ask permission to do so.

my point is not to be anti-shooting, but anti the idea of the council providing a shooting range.

Grizzly 45 · 03-05-2023 12:16pm

I dont even think in the USA there is such a thing as a township funding a public range. BUT what they do give is an area that is a designated safe firing area.IOW something like an old sand quarry,or a town dump,or some kind of wasteground that is designated a safe area to shoot.Everyone knows about it and that shooting occurs there. You can pitch up and shoot whatever you have at whatever you want.Only requirement is to observe gun safety rules and haul away your targets,or not as the case may be,as many of these areas are the town dump or a junkyard.

We'd have a better chance of something like this than a council-funded and maintained range here.

Mellor · 03-05-2023 1:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549710#Comment_120549710

I think you misunderstood my post. I was being ironic.

You claimed that you couldn’t use a range unless you own a firearm. That is incorrect.

I was pointing out that needing to own a firearm (in your example) was a parallel to needing to own clubs. And provided an example for why neither is true. You rent them for your visit.

And yup you can buy second have clubs for cheaper. Just like second hand firearms.

Basically many sports require equipment. I dint think that aspect of shooting is any grounds to exclude it from the community.

Zxthinger · 11-05-2023 12:29am

I see that Dún Laogaire actually had a shooting gallery in the Pavilion on Marine Road but it burned down in 1906.. Afaik it was actually visited by Queen Victoria back in the day and as such it was a major civic attraction to the town of Kingston.. aka Dun LAOGHAIRE town..

Recently Dun LAOGHAIRE County Council spent 12years and several million restoring some public baths because of their historical significance.

It now seems that a shooting gallery may also have some historical significance after all..

BattleCorp · 11-05-2023 11:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549002#Comment_120549002

And sure, some golf courses will let you rent clubs. So too could could a range.

I'm open to correction but isn't day membership of ranges illegal here in Ireland? That would prevent Joe Public rocking up and renting a gun for a few hours shooting when they aren't a member of the range.

Grizzly 45 · 11-05-2023 12:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120582495#Comment_120582495

Yup,day membership is gone.

Grizzly 45 · 11-05-2023 12:52pm

Recently Dun LAOGHAIRE County Council spent 12years and several million restoring some public baths because of their historical significance.

And still managed to make an utter balls of it! God help you if you are disabled in a wheelchair getting down or up the HILL to and from the baths.

So if they couldn't take that basic human need into consideration.What sort of a mess do you think a council would make of building and running a range? The inability of organising a drinking session in St James Gate springs to mind with many local Irish govt bodies.

BattleCorp · 11-05-2023 2:18pm

Aside from day membership being not allowed, insurance would be a very big hinderance to opening a council range. As things stand, my range has its own insurance and all members must also have their own personal insurance. Do all other ranges in Ireland have that requirement? I'd guess so.

How do you get Joe Public to have their own insurance? Wouldn't happen.

The only way a Council shooting range would work would be for it to operate like an existing range, i.e. people become members and the range only caters for members.

Zxthinger · 11-05-2023 2:35pm

In all fairness the topographic levels at the DL baths were poor to begin with.. but that’s what they inherited.

Yes they had 12 years and the problems should have been solved but the elephant in the is not the excessive gradients that allow wheeled mobility units run out of control and to career into the walls of the development.

The point is It’s the fact that Kingstown, at it was called at the time was the pinnacle of modern entertainment and leisure pursuits at the time. The Pavilion was mirrored on the great crystal place of London and it was all built in the back drop of the worlds largest harbour at the time.. This is the nostalgic ambiance that the LA harkens towards..

Council money and potential spending is often based on preservation of the past or recreation of same. Regardless of the origins of the proprietor, whether they be a private member or a local authority, it still demonstrates that this particular enterprise was present in the town of Dun Laoghaire, and as, such this holds historical weight.

The building was also visited by Queen Victoria. She traversed over Marine Road on a wooden bridge to the pavilion and by doing so avoided having to mix with the riffraff below on Marine Road

A historical Shooting gallery in the 1900s was probably limited to 22flobert ammo but who knows. Regardless of this it’s sets a historical reference to shooting as a sport..

I dare say that an air rifle range could be funded locally by council money and ran by contract via a public tender..

The local authority have the land, the money and the power to pull this off..

Im only a peasant but if I would the Euro millions I put shooting on the map..

Zxthinger · 11-05-2023 2:38pm

And if that works then that’s great..

Mellor · 11-05-2023 3:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120582495#Comment_120582495

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120582784#Comment_120582784

Day membership is not permitted. That is correct. But I think you are misinterpreting that.

The Firearms Act states that to be issued a FAC for target shooting you must be a member of a club. And SI 308/2009 states club can’t issue day or temp membership (as you stated). But that is to prevent FAC’s being issued on the back of Monthly membership or PAYG attendance.

But you don’t need to be a member to attend a range. The simple example being guest attendances. That also cover unlicensed guests, who are required to be supervised. It’s covered in 622/2011.

I believe Hilltop held Try Shooting Open days previous on that basis.

Zxthinger · 11-05-2023 8:02pm

Fair play to that gentleman for clearing up that minor issue.

I still would see a public rifle range operating much differently than a private venture.

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

Options for a council owned shooting range.

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