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Options for a council owned shooting range.

  • 24-05-2021 8:25pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭ Zxthinger


    MOD NOTE

    In order to prevent members from inadvertently breaching the Tartget Shooting Forum Charter, in particular the following:
    Absolutely no politics.
    All discussion relating to legislation, associations, infighting, reform, etc, etc, belongs in the main Shooting forum and will be moved there without warning or appeal if it shows up in here and an infraction will be marked against the relevant users.

    This post has been moved to the main forum

    _______________________________________________________


    What's yer thoughts on the possibility of a publicly owned and operated shooting range in some county..
    Worth a discussion..

    These councils around Ireland have golf courses and playing pitches etc etc. Why don't we have a public shooting range..


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 775 ✭✭✭ otmmyboy2


    Zxthinger wrote: »
    What's yer thoughts on the possibility of a publicly owned and operated shooting range in some county..
    Worth a discussion..

    These councils around Ireland have golf courses and playing pitches etc etc. Why don't we have a public shooting range..

    Because no councilors shoot ;)
    And because it would be viewed as too much of a headache with insurance, construction to range standards, inspection, licencing.

    Not to mention if something bad did ever happen there the council would be dragged through the papers for it, regardless of their culpability or lack thereof.

    My guess anyway :rolleyes:

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    You'd have the purple and pink haired Karens, and the wealthy student communist types up in arms, shrieking to the media who would lap up the bilge they go on with.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,758 ✭✭✭ clivej


    Never happen here


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,261 ✭✭✭ garrettod


    Nice idea....

    If the DCC are prepared to blow around €25m on white water rafting in Dublin's Docklands, then there's definitely a case for putting a few mill into a decent range :)

    Thanks,

    G.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,182 ✭✭✭ Feisar


    It falls back to the issue that we don't have a tradition of shooting in this country. I have raised this before, back when we were target shooting on Dollymount Stand it would have been well heeled Angle-Irish as opposed to Paddy from down the road. As i said last time I'm not trying to bring in a political Irish/English thing into it. My point is that target shooting was never a grass roots pastime here for whatever reason.
    Funny how social/economical reasons impact things. Game shooting was often for the rich in the UK, so you get Purdey and Holland&Holland, in the US hynting was an everyman pastime so one gets a more economical workmans gun.
    I wonder if back in the longbow times we were required to train x amount of hours each week would we have developed a target shooting scene like the UK?

    I'm starting to waffle here a bit however I hope people get my point.

    First they came for the socialists...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭ Richard308


    Unless some philanthropist donated the land(flat) and stated he wanted a range and wildlife reserve etc adjoining it etc. Would any council etc consider it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭ Stanford


    Shooting is a minority sport, why should the taxpayer subsidise it with public funds?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭ Stovepipe


    why not? look at how much they give to greyhound racing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭ sprucemoose


    tudderone wrote: »
    You'd have the purple and pink haired Karens, and the wealthy student communist types up in arms, shrieking to the media who would lap up the bilge they go on with.

    not helpful, relevant or even funny tbh


  • Registered Users Posts: 441 ✭✭ jb88


    The case for a public and regulated range is well founded. But the majority would cry over the idea.

    Having been involved with a club which was shut down over planning regulations and seen another partly shut down for another reason its unlikely. Not counting a few others around the country

    The govt thinking that an armed and confident population would just go along with their every wish isnt very well founded, except in the US and maybe Finland.

    Its a control factor like everything in this world. Its only when all control is lost that they realise the error of their ways.

    All local councils have neither the expertise or the understanding. In the US there are 2.5 times the shooting ranges to Golf courses.

    How many golf courses are in Ireland?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,155 ✭✭✭ cruizer101


    A few reason I can think of

    Its a minority sport, smaller sports don't get much funding and rarely get public facilities built for them, unless they can slot into general sports hall e.g. badminton or hockey on an general purpose all weather.

    Many would not consider it a real sport (not my opinion btw) and group it with darts, snooker, chess. I'm not aware of any public facilities for those either

    There are age restrictions, I'm not sure what they are, but a lot for funding for sports goes in with the idea of getting kids into sports.
    Golf is probably a bit of an exception to that where most are

    As a sport it is hidden away, I've never seen a gun club looking for members, so most aren't very aware of it as a sport so wouldn't see it needing funding.

    Maybe it should receive more funding but it is up to a sporting body to promote itself and look for that funding,


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭ Stanford


    ""The case for a public and regulated range is well founded""......evidence for this statement please?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,182 ✭✭✭ Feisar


    cruizer101 wrote: »
    A few reason I can think of

    Its a minority sport, smaller sports don't get much funding and rarely get public facilities built for them, unless they can slot into general sports hall e.g. badminton or hockey on an general purpose all weather.

    Many would not consider it a real sport (not my opinion btw) and group it with darts, snooker, chess. I'm not aware of any public facilities for those either

    There are age restrictions, I'm not sure what they are, but a lot for funding for sports goes in with the idea of getting kids into sports.
    Golf is probably a bit of an exception to that where most are

    As a sport it is hidden away, I've never seen a gun club looking for members, so most aren't very aware of it as a sport so wouldn't see it needing funding.

    Maybe it should receive more funding but it is up to a sporting body to promote itself and look for that funding,

    In Shooting has a variety of disciplines so how anyone can say it's not a sport I don't know. I appreciate you aren't saying that but I also get the point on darts/snooker/chess.
    On it being a minority sport, fair enough but I would like to see a comparison of grass roots participation vs funding for sports in general and see where we lie.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭ BSA International


    Stanford wrote: »
    Shooting is a minority sport, why should the taxpayer subsidise it with public funds?

    Maybe because us shooters pay lots of direct and indirect taxation, licence fees and get nothing in return.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,330 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    not helpful, relevant or even funny tbh

    But FACTUAL!;)

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,330 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Be better off looking at trying to buy or lease a disused/decomissioned army range someplace off the dept of defence and renovating that into a viable range than trying to deal with a bunch of council Jobsworths and their ren ta mob opposition.:rolleyes:

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭ Half-cocked


    Some one needs to win an Olympic gold medal in shooting! Wicklow county council rushed to build a new boxing gym in Bray when Katie Taylor won gold in boxing.

    (Sadly, subsequent tragic events at that particular gym mean they won't be rushing to build anything else for sport, especially for shooting)


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,330 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    By and by Irish shooters bring home from European and commonwealth games and Intl comps a wheelbarrow worth of medals and prizes. This is amazing when you think that this is all self-funded down to the last red cent.

    Heck, even the ARW embarrassed the best snipers the US and the Western world had to offer a few years ago..But it never gets a mention of any particular value on RTE or MSM

    So if by some miracle of money, training and dedication we won a gold in any shooting discipline in Tokyo 20 whenever.
    It would probably be in the "and finally"news segment of the 6/1 news...That's if a dancing cat isn't trained to do a Riverdance number in Ballygropple Co wherever...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,177 ✭✭✭✭ BattleCorp


    Stanford wrote: »
    ""The case for a public and regulated range is well founded""......evidence for this statement please?

    Shooting is a sport enjoyed by thousands of people. Many councils provide sporting facilities for their constituents to enjoy their chosen sport.

    Shooting is not quite as minority a sport here as it is portrayed. I'm a member of a privately owned and run range that has approx. 400 members.

    While there are differing sources, there's between 180k and 200k licenced firearms in the State. It's difficult to tell how many gun owners there are but it wouldn't be far off 100,000 people. I'd wager that if there were local facilities, many gun owners would use them.

    More people in my County own guns than skateboards yet my Council has built a skate park in the small town where I live.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭ Half-cocked


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    By and by Irish shooters bring home from European and commonwealth games and Intl comps a wheelbarrow worth of medals and prizes. This is amazing when you think that this is all self-funded down to the last red cent.

    Heck, even the ARW embarrassed the best snipers the US and the Western world had to offer a few years ago..But it never gets a mention of any particular value on RTE or MSM

    So if by some miracle of money, training and dedication we won a gold in any shooting discipline in Tokyo 20 whenever.
    It would probably be in the "and finally"news segment of the 6/1 news...That's if a dancing cat isn't trained to do a Riverdance number in Ballygropple Co wherever...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Unfortunately, anything other than the Olympics is ignored by the media in most minority sports. If an Irish shooter did medal at the Olympics, it would be very revealing to see how much coverage it got in the media compared to other sports.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    Stanford wrote: »
    ""The case for a public and regulated range is well founded""......evidence for this statement please?

    The success of the midlands rifle range in Tullamore. QED


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Be better off looking at trying to buy or lease a disused/decomissioned army range someplace off the dept of defence and renovating that into a viable range than trying to deal with a bunch of council Jobsworths and their ren ta mob opposition.:rolleyes:

    They are lucky to hold onto exsisting ranges as it is. Too many brown envelopes and glad handing with local politicians and officials saw residential planning permission getting the go ahead in areas that they shouldn't have. Now issues on noise pollution and infringement on safety templates are rearing thier heads. Not to mention the pillocks who either ignore safety flags and signs or deem it thier right to roam.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,261 ✭✭✭ garrettod


    Stanford wrote: »
    Shooting is a minority sport, why should the taxpayer subsidise it with public funds?

    Is it really?

    Over the years, I've seen reference to 200k - 250k licenced firearms in Ireland. If you said that it only amounted to 50,000 people, then it's hardly a minority sport, compared to many other sports that get state support of one form or another :)

    I seriously doubt that there's that many middle aged men in extra tight spandex, cycling bikes up and down the country - it only looks like there are more of them, because they are very much in your face, these days.

    Now, just think about the level of support that they are getting, not to mention the bad attitude that some have developed :(

    Thanks,

    G.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    garrettod wrote: »
    Is it really?

    Over the years, I've seen reference to 200k - 250k licenced firearms in Ireland. If you said that it only amounted to 50,000 people, then it's hardly a minority sport, compared to many other sports that get state support of one form or another :)

    I seriously doubt that there's that many middle aged men in extra tight spandex, cycling bikes up and down the country - it only looks like there are more of them, because they are very much in your face, these days.

    Now, just think about the level of support that they are getting, not to mention the bad attitude that some have developed :(

    Like having cycle paths installed all over the place, and they still insist on cycling in the middle of the road. Talking to two chaps who are seriously into cycling and that both said cyclist (some of them) are their own worst enemy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,261 ✭✭✭ garrettod


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Be better off looking at trying to buy or lease a disused/decomissioned army range someplace off the dept of defence and renovating that into a viable range than trying to deal with a bunch of council Jobsworths and their ren ta mob opposition.:rolleyes:

    Now there's a good idea! :)


    tudderone wrote: »
    Like having cycle paths installed all over the place, and they still insist on cycling in the middle of the road. Talking to two chaps who are seriously into cycling and that both said cyclist (some of them) are their own worst enemy.

    Don't get me started :D:D:D

    I know that there's good and bad in every sport - but it's a sport with its own risks and dangers, yet they aren't compelled to wear helmets, have insurance, or even pass a competency test. :(

    Thanks,

    G.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,330 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Unfortunately, anything other than the Olympics is ignored by the media in most minority sports. If an Irish shooter did medal at the Olympics, it would be very revealing to see how much coverage it got in the media compared to other sports.

    TBH,I don't think SS gets much coverage at all in the Olympics...Seems they are even embarrassed to have it now as well. There was even talk of doing away with firearms altogether and using those lazer pointing guns you find on an arcade game instead...[Costing a few grand of course.]. look at how ridiculous it was treated in London in 2012.

    A multi-million-pound shooting range was built with armed security on the competitor's guns, and then once the last few shots were fired, the demolition crews were in to get rid of it. You usually leave the facilities standing in the host country for its athletes to use,[ and for them to become white elephants as well] Strange that one...:rolleyes:

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 395 ✭✭ tomtucker81


    tudderone wrote: »
    You'd have the purple and pink haired Karens, and the wealthy student communist types up in arms, shrieking to the media who would lap up the bilge they go on with.

    The student communist types would need some sort of safe place to practice with said arms, if only one were available to them at student rates.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    TBH,I don't think SS gets much coverage at all in the Olympics...Seems they are even embarrassed to have it now as well. There was even talk of doing away with firearms altogether and using those lazer pointing guns you find on an arcade game instead...[Costing a few grand of course.]. look at how ridiculous it was treated in London in 2012.

    A multi-million-pound shooting range was built with armed security on the competitor's guns, and then once the last few shots were fired, the demolition crews were in to get rid of it. You usually leave the facilities standing in the host country for its athletes to use,[ and for them to become white elephants as well] Strange that one...:rolleyes:

    There are still ranges in Central-ish London though amazingly. The Ham and Petersham R&P club in Twickenham, near Eel pie Island (seems to be a few around Twickenham). The stock exchange rifle club, which shoots at London Bridge. One in a park at Hendon ! Another in Croydon, Carshalton R&P club. One in Wimbledon. There are quite a few. I suppose most date back to a time when it was good form to be a good shot.

    Can you imagine if someone decided to seek to open a gun club in the Phoenix park in Dublin or a park in Limerick or Cork, the uproar :eek:


    https://wprc.plexjet.net/public/home/view/180

    https://www.hprpc.co.uk

    https://www.twickenhamrpc.co.uk/about-us

    http://www.hhrcuk.com


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭ Half-cocked


    garrettod wrote: »
    Is it really?

    Over the years, I've seen reference to 200k - 250k licenced firearms in Ireland. If you said that it only amounted to 50,000 people, then it's hardly a minority sport, compared to many other sports that get state support of one form or another :)

    I seriously doubt that there's that many middle aged men in extra tight spandex, cycling bikes up and down the country - it only looks like there are more of them, because they are very much in your face, these days.

    Now, just think about the level of support that they are getting, not to mention the bad attitude that some have developed :(

    Most of those firearms are owned by farmers and are tools of the trade rather than sports equipment. The number of sporting shooters is much lower.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭ Half-cocked


    tudderone wrote: »

    Can you imagine if someone decided to seek to open a gun club in the Phoenix park in Dublin or a park in Limerick or Cork, the uproar :eek:

    The ICPSA hosted a Home International in the Phoenix Pk.

    (Ok, it was back in the 1930's. How times have changed)


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