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Vatican issues document rejecting idea that people can choose or change gender

1246

Comments

  • #152
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    I'm not offended by trans in general at all, only the trans activists who target people, celebrities even those in the health care sector who don't subscribe to their doctrine. People has lost contracts, jobs, businesses damaged etc.

    Using social media and the legal system as a weapon against them.

    You're targetting trans people branding them as objects for your ignorant amusement comparing them to tourettes sufferers, you're not just targetting activists as part of your doctrine.


  • #153
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    klaaaz wrote: »
    You're targetting trans people branding them as objects for your ignorant amusement comparing them to tourettes sufferers, you're not just targetting activists as part of your doctrine.

    Also, lost on why an incredibly difficult condition such as Tourettes is amusing....


  • #154
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    batgoat wrote: »
    Also, lost on why an incredibly difficult condition such as Tourettes is amusing....

    That poster who has a serious distaste of people who are different probably finds the ParaOlympics amusing too.


  • #155
    TuringBot47
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 991 ✭✭✭TuringBot47


    batgoat wrote: »
    Also, lost on why an incredibly difficult condition such as Tourettes is amusing....

    Mens humour tends to be status based, laughing as other men make mistakes which lowers their status. While female humour tends to be based on funny situations. The unconscious swearing associated with Tourettes probably addresses both of those and is often portrayed in tv and films.
    I feel like I'm explaining basic psychology to a child here.
    klaaaz wrote: »
    That poster who has a serious distaste of people who are different probably finds the ParaOlympics amusing too.

    Ah, I can make up stuff too, if that's the new game ?
    You think pedophiles are can be rehabilitated in prison and when they have served their time their record should be expunged and they should be eligible to foster and adopt children.


  • #156
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    Ah, I can make up stuff too, if that's the new game ?
    You think pedophiles are can be rehabilitated in prison and when they have served their time their record should be expunged and they should be eligible to foster and adopt children.

    Quick, let's deflect from your horrible distaste of anyone who has tourettes or disabilities.


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  • #157
    Cryptopagan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Cryptopagan


    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    Mens humour tends to be status based, laughing as other men make mistakes which lowers their status. While female humour tends to be based on funny situations. The unconscious swearing associated with Tourettes probably addresses both of those and is often portrayed in tv and films.
    I feel like I'm explaining basic psychology to a child here.

    “Men’s humour tends to be based on situations they find funny, female humour on funny situations.”

    That’s some insightful commentary


  • #158
    TuringBot47
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 991 ✭✭✭TuringBot47


    klaaaz wrote: »
    Quick, let's deflect from your horrible distaste of anyone who has tourettes or disabilities.

    Again "horrible distaste"... more than a stretch from amusement, which apart from this thread, was just an internal opinion.

    I'm sure you'll be first in line when they start recruiting the thought police.

    Ps. any relation to _blaaz on the site?


  • #159
    TuringBot47
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 991 ✭✭✭TuringBot47


    Cryptopagan wrote: »
    “Men’s humour tends to be based on situations they find funny, female humour on funny situations.”

    That’s some insightful commentary

    You've messed up the quote which is amazing since I can't dumb it down anymore. Maybe I'll ask one of my children to write it in crayon for you.


  • #160
    Cryptopagan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Cryptopagan


    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    You've messed up the quote which is amazing since I can't dumb it down anymore. Maybe I'll ask one of my children to write it in crayon for you.

    Are these boys or girls because they’ll have totally different notions about humour. For you see, boy’s humour is based on things that they find funny, while girl’s humour is based on funny things.


  • #161
    TuringBot47
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 991 ✭✭✭TuringBot47


    Cryptopagan wrote: »
    Are these boys or girls because they’ll have totally different notions about humour. For you see, boy’s humour is based on things that they find funny, while girl’s humour is based on funny things.

    Mens humour is based on status.
    Use your finger to follow the words on the page as you read them.


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  • #162
    Cryptopagan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Cryptopagan


    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    Mens humour is based on status.
    Use your finger to follow the words on the page as you read them.

    Well, you’re saying “men’s humour” is based on status, from which I infer you think that men find situations in which another’s man’s status is undermined—or reduced in some way—funny. So that would make that a funny situation, would it not? And then you argue that “female humour” is based on “funny situations.” So what’s the difference? Saying humour is based on something that’s funny is tautological. The only substantive thing you’ve said is something about men enjoying situations in which another’s status is undermined. Are you suggesting that a situation men find funny is not a funny situation?


  • #163
    TuringBot47
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 991 ✭✭✭TuringBot47


    Cryptopagan wrote: »
    And then you argue that “female humour” is based on “funny situations.” So what’s the difference?

    Embarrassing or awkward situations for them.
    Women tend to use humour to "downgrade" (for want of a better term) themselves to other women and show they're not a threat and
    prompt empathy in others.
    While mens humour is typically based on embarrassing situations for others, showing more dominance.

    And to draw vaguely back to the thread, men will look down on other men with weaknesses or differences even if it's just an unconscious level.


  • #164
    Cryptopagan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Cryptopagan


    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    Embarrassing or awkward situations for them.
    While mens humour is typically based on embarrassing situations for others.

    Can you provide examples of each? And how do you account for jokes that both sexes find equally funny?


  • #165
    TuringBot47
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 991 ✭✭✭TuringBot47


    Cryptopagan wrote: »
    Can you provide examples of each? And how do you account for jokes that both sexes find equally funny?

    That's for another thread.

    Dragging this thread back on topic, men would find other men wearing dresses funny... it's completely emasculating them.
    Same with involuntarily swearing.


  • #166
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    Dragging this thread back on topic, men would find other men wearing dresses funny... it's completely emasculating them.

    You're thinking of drag which is not transgender.


  • #167
    Cryptopagan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Cryptopagan


    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    That's for another thread.

    Dragging this thread back on topic, men would find other men wearing dresses funny... it's completely emasculating them.
    Same with involuntarily swearing.

    Nobody has found men wearing dresses funny since about 1978...it’s a cliche. A lot of humour is based on mixing up traditional gender roles, but such comedy appealed as much to women as men (see Friends for instance.) There isn’t any basis for believing there is some essential difference in the things men and women find funny.


  • #168
    TuringBot47
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 991 ✭✭✭TuringBot47


    klaaaz wrote: »
    You're thinking of drag which is not transgender.

    Am I stuck in GroundHog day, I answered that and you didn't already

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110431704&postcount=125

    Cryptopagan wrote: »
    Nobody has found men wearing dresses funny since about 1978...it’s a cliche.

    Still relevant.
    Recently Sheldon in the "Big Bang Theory" lost a bet and had to wear a dress.
    Men wear dresses in the womens mini marathon to raise money for charity at the expense of their dignity for the laugh.
    Stag nights sometimes make the stag wear a tutu.

    There's a load of relevant examples off the top of my head...


  • #169
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    Am I stuck in GroundHog day, I answered that and you didn't already
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110431704&postcount=125

    You probably are stuck in Groundhog Day with your ignorance thinking that transgender means drag, you don't even know what drag is do you?


  • #170
    TuringBot47
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 991 ✭✭✭TuringBot47


    klaaaz wrote: »
    You probably are stuck in Groundhog Day with your ignorance thinking that transgender means drag, you don't even know what drag is do you?

    Men dressing up as women.

    You still haven't answered the question.... I'll wait.


  • #171
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    Men dressing up as women.

    And women dressing as men, known as drag kings. Nothing to do with transgender.
    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    You still haven't answered the question.... I'll wait.

    What answer do you require to such ignorance equating drag and transgender? Hint: drag people are fine with their birth gender unlike transgender people.


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  • #172
    Wanderer2010
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,742 ✭✭✭Wanderer2010


    Aw no, the Vatican says that I cant do something, that really holds a lot of weight these days :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


  • #173
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    Embarrassing or awkward situations for them.
    Women tend to use humour to "downgrade" (for want of a better term) themselves to other women and show they're not a threat and
    prompt empathy in others.
    While mens humour is typically based on embarrassing situations for others, showing more dominance.

    And to draw vaguely back to the thread, men will look down on other men with weaknesses or differences even if it's just an unconscious level.

    I'm glad to say my sense of humour is more nuanced and mature than yours... I don't view tourettes as a weakness, it's a condition that people persevere through and struggle with. I also know transgender people and I view them to be incredibly strong in spite of the ****ty treatment they experience from certain types. Also tend to have a better sense of humour than yourself.


  • #174
    TuringBot47
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 991 ✭✭✭TuringBot47


    klaaaz wrote: »
    What answer do you require to such ignorance equating drag and transgender?

    Hint: I already posted the link. But I'll quote it here again
    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    But throw in some hormones and a few snips from a surgeon and what's the difference?

    Self image seems to be the only thing between them... which I regard as a dysfunctional mental state.
    batgoat wrote: »
    I'm glad to say my sense of humour is more nuanced and mature than yours... ... Also tend to have a better sense of humour than yourself.

    If anything you said you don't laugh at certain things.
    So how is that a better sense of humour?

    Nuanced and mature doesn't exactly sound like you're the life and soul of the party. I don't know any "nuanced and mature" comedians...


  • #175
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,567 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    batgoat wrote: »
    This is the exact same claim that people have made in the past about homosexuality being removed from the dsm... A working group concluded that moving to gender identity disorder and keeping the classification to maintain supports for the affected person made the most sense. Nothing to do with lobbyists, just that knowledge has changed.



    In fairness, the fact you're amused by people who are transgender or have tourettes is a terrible reflection upon you...

    What drove the formation of a working group? Has the nature of the condition changed? Was dsyphoria as a whole removed, or just the aspect that has a vocal lobby associated with it?

    Likening to the change in view of homosexuality seems a touch disingenuous. There's a fundamental difference in sexual fluidity and feeling a disconnect from the reality of your biological sex. In the same way if I felt that my leg didn't belong to me and wanted it amputated.


  • #176
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    Self image seems to be the only thing between them... which I regard as a dysfunctional mental state.

    No it's not and you deleted my previous comment in your reply quote.

    Here is the difference stating again: drag people are fine with their birth gender unlike transgender people.


  • #177
    Bikerman2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Bikerman2019


    the culture of deference wrote: »
    What can you say anymore about the RCC. They are just determined to destroy themselves from the inside. Remember they control our schools.

    The Vatican has issued an official document rejecting the idea that people can choose or change their genders and insisting on the sexual “complementarity” of men and women to make babies.

    Pope Francis has repeatedly argued the position that people cannot choose their genders.
    The document called for a new alliance among families, schools and society to offer a “positive and prudent sexual education” in Catholic schools so children learn the “full original truth of masculinity and femininity”.

    It called gender fluidity a symptom of the “confused concept of freedom” and “momentary desires” that characterise post-modern culture.

    It rejected terms such as “intersex” and “transgender” and said the purpose of the biological “complementarity” of the male and female sex organs was to ensure procreation.


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/vatican-rejects-idea-people-can-choose-or-change-genders-1.3921015


    By saying it as it is? I think you may have an agenda here. It is science, and this crap about being born in the wrong body...... say what? It's not a fecking car you can change and is manufactured.


  • #178
    TuringBot47
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 991 ✭✭✭TuringBot47


    klaaaz wrote: »
    No it's not and you deleted my previous comment in your reply quote.

    Here is the difference stating again: drag people are fine with their birth gender unlike transgender people.

    And as I said... only difference seems to be self image.
    Anorexics need intervention in their self image.


  • #179
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    And as I said... only difference seems to be self image.
    Anorexics need intervention in their self image.

    Nope, read again. This is rather embarrassing for you not knowing what the difference between drag and transgender is.


  • #180
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    klaaaz wrote: »
    Nope, read again. This is rather embarrassing for you not knowing what the difference between drag and transgender is.

    Perhaps this will help clarify things??


    https://www.google.com/amp/amp.abc.net.au/article/10040242



    Thinking anorexia is a self image problem is a scaryily misinformed person


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  • #181
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Your very naive if you think likes of priests/cardinals etc dont have sex :D
    I often remember back to school when a well known, and usually timid, theologian (female) gave a leaving speech where she tried to implore us to be responsible about sexuality, and commented that this 'myth' of celibacy was as disingenuous as the previous notion that gay people don't exist nor have sex.

    I think of this when I bump into the local parish priest (lovely guy). I have no business knowing what his orientation is, but the idea that he's celibate is about as daft as the suggestion that R. Catholic homosexual people desist from sex. It's for the birds, I don't believe it for as moment. (And more luck to him/ them)


  • #182
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Perhaps this will help clarify things??

    https://www.google.com/amp/amp.abc.net.au/article/10040242

    Thinking anorexia is a self image problem is a scaryily misinformed person

    That article will trigger him as the content is outside his narrow view of the world!


  • #183
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    klaaaz wrote: »
    That article will trigger him as the content is outside his narrow view of the world!

    Sure lookit....i hope he/she reads it....as it is from a relatively neutral.source and informative



    A day,where you dont learn something,is a day wasted


  • #184
    TuringBot47
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 991 ✭✭✭TuringBot47


    klaaaz wrote: »
    Nope, read again. This is rather embarrassing for you not knowing what the difference between drag and transgender is.

    I know exactly the difference.
    This is now the 3rd time I've asked you to tell the difference.

    Drag: Man wearing a dress
    Trans: Man thinks he's a woman, wears a dress and hormonal treatment plus potentially surgical procedures to try and match their image to their self image.

    Now... you turn, you explain your interpretation of the differences in detail.


  • #185
    TuringBot47
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 991 ✭✭✭TuringBot47


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Thinking anorexia is a self image problem is a scaryily misinformed person

    What do you base that on ?
    Did you read the Wiki article at least ?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anorexia_nervosa
    Many people with anorexia see themselves as overweight even though they are, in fact, underweight

    That says "self image" issues.
    Anyways, are you a rereg of klaaz ?
    There to back up each other up?


  • #186
    TuringBot47
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 991 ✭✭✭TuringBot47


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Self image problem is the synthom and not the cause of eating disorders

    But if you correct the self image, does it not correct the problem ?
    If anorexics were able to accept what they looked like at a normal weight, that "should" solve the problem ?


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  • #187
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    But if you correct the self image, does it not correct the problem ?
    If anorexics were able to accept what they looked like at a normal weight, that "should" solve the problem ?

    No....it deosnt

    If you dont solve the underlying issues you will only patch the problem......no point in working on self image while ignoring a whole host of under lying physcological issues/trauma which cause it


  • #188
    TuringBot47
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 991 ✭✭✭TuringBot47


    _blaaz wrote: »
    No....it deosnt

    If you dont solve the underlying issues you will only patch the problem......no point in working on self image while ignoring a whole host of under lying physcological issues/trauma which cause it

    You'll probably be reported for thinking it's an underlying psychological issue. "They" don't agree.


  • #189
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    I know exactly the difference.
    This is now the 3rd time I've asked you to tell the difference.

    Drag: Man wearing a dress
    Trans: Man thinks he's a woman, wears a dress and hormonal treatment plus potentially surgical procedures to try and match their image to their self image.

    Now... you turn, you explain your interpretation of the differences in detail.

    You said
    TuringBot wrote:
    In fairness I imagine most people consider trans people to be something of an amusement like someone with turrets syndrome.

    And
    TuringBot wrote:
    Brendan O'Carroll pretends to be a woman and I certainly don't laugh at him.

    Men in drag have always been the subject of comedy especially old BBC material.
    TuringBot wrote:
    But throw in some hormones and a few snips from a surgeon and what's the difference?

    That's you talking about drag as being transgender, you didn't know the difference until you were challenged. You thought being trans was funny and to be mocked at comparing it to laughing at a person having tourettes.
    For one that has a nickname after a famous gay person, your knowledge of LGBT matters is rather insulting to the memory of Mr. Turing.


  • #190
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    the culture of deference wrote: »
    What can you say anymore about the RCC. They are just determined to destroy themselves from the inside. Remember they control our schools.

    The Vatican has issued an official document rejecting the idea that people can choose or change their genders and insisting on the sexual “complementarity” of men and women to make babies.

    Pope Francis has repeatedly argued the position that people cannot choose their genders.
    The document called for a new alliance among families, schools and society to offer a “positive and prudent sexual education” in Catholic schools so children learn the “full original truth of masculinity and femininity”.

    It called gender fluidity a symptom of the “confused concept of freedom” and “momentary desires” that characterise post-modern culture.

    It rejected terms such as “intersex” and “transgender” and said the purpose of the biological “complementarity” of the male and female sex organs was to ensure procreation.






    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/vatican-rejects-idea-people-can-choose-or-change-genders-1.3921015

    They're dead right too. This fad will hopefully die down soon.


  • #191
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    Anyways, are you a rereg of klaaz ?
    There to back up each other up?

    Isn't doxxing of reg's not allowed TBot, that sound familiar? Whiff of paranoia of your posts!


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  • #192
    xzanti
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 10,440 Mod ✭✭✭✭xzanti


    My 8 year old asked me why Bruce Jenner suddenly looked like a woman.

    I told him that some boys are born with a girls heart, and vice versa of course and so they have to change the outside to match.

    He understood without any further explanation. It was literally that simple for him.

    When I say heart, I am referring to the soul/spirit/energy. Not the physical muscle.


  • #193
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    klaaaz wrote: »
    For one that has a nickname after a famous gay person, your knowledge of LGBT matters is rather insulting to the memory of Mr. Turing.

    You mean the brilliant mathematician. His sexuality is f*** all concern to most people. So give over trying to define dead men by their sexuality to suit you own tiresome narrative.


  • #194
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    xzanti wrote: »
    My 8 year old asked me why Bruce Jenner suddenly looked like a woman.

    I told him that some boys are born with a girls heart, and vice versa of course and so they have to change the outside to match.

    He understood without any further explanation. It was literally that simple for him.

    When I say heart, I am referring to the soul/spirit/energy. Not the physical muscle.

    I also know 8 year olds who genuinely believe in Santa Claus, God and Fairies. It’s very simple for children to accept an assurance from a parent for something that makes little sense to them. Your child does not have some innate ability to reconcile these matters. They just take your word for it.

    I wouldn’t.


  • #195
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    xzanti wrote: »
    My 8 year old asked me why Bruce Jenner suddenly looked like a woman.

    I told him that some boys are born with a girls heart, and vice versa of course and so they have to change the outside to match.

    He understood without any further explanation. It was literally that simple for him.

    When I say heart, I am referring to the soul/spirit/energy. Not the physical muscle.

    If he dressed as a chicken because he thought he was a chicken then you could have explained that as a chicken soul/spirit/energy.

    How the femaleness exists in Bruce is not easily explained, since it’s not biological and he’s spent his life socially constructed as a male. So we resort to supernatural explanations.


  • #196
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    JayZeus wrote: »
    You mean the brilliant mathematician. His sexuality is f*** all concern to most people. So give over trying to define dead men by their sexuality to suit you own tiresome narrative.

    His sexuality caused him to get convicted as a gay man back then helping him to an early death, some posters here would like those times to return.


  • #197
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    klaaaz wrote: »
    His sexuality caused him to get convicted as a gay man back then helping him to an early death, some posters here would like those times to return.

    Nope. You are equating homosexuality with trans. Not the same.


  • #198
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    Nope. You are equating homosexuality with trans. Not the same.

    What are you on about, no such thing.


  • #199
    Dante7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭Dante7


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    Nope. You are equating homosexuality with trans. Not the same.

    There is an equivalence between Turing and Trans. The drugs that were used to chemically castrate Turing are the same sort of drugs that are given to Trans women, some of whom are children, and which can do irreversible damage.


  • #200
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    xzanti wrote:
    My 8 year old asked me why Bruce Jenner suddenly looked like a woman.

    xzanti wrote:
    I told him that some boys are born with a girls heart, and vice versa of course and so they have to change the outside to match.

    xzanti wrote:
    He understood without any further explanation. It was literally that simple for him.

    xzanti wrote:
    When I say heart, I am referring to the soul/spirit/energy. Not the physical muscle.

    And then everyone clapped


  • #201
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    And then everyone clapped

    Exactly....i very much doubt a 8 year old would who caitlyn jenner is....ive only vague idea


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