Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

2020 EV Scrappage scheme

2»

Comments

  • #52
    26000 Elephants
    Registered Users Posts: 3,152 ✭✭✭26000 Elephants


    unkel wrote: »
    Even the USA already has 100GW in wind power. .

    Of which how much is off-shore? I'll tell you: 30MW

    Thats 0.003% of their wind-power is generated off-shore, but its going to be the norm over here? Within 20 years?

    If the yanks struggle to raise the funding for off-shore, where do you think we will get it? And within what time frame? Bear in mind that the planning for a combined National Childrens Hospital started in 1998, and has already ballooned to 600% of original estimates, how do you reckon a challenging project like off-shore wind will fare?

    Lets say it again: 6% of our energy is renewable electricity. And we need to go to 90% within 20 years to meet targets. It wont be done.


  • #53
    Nikki Sixx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 426 ✭✭Nikki Sixx


    Should they not be putting charging points for electric cars in in in new developments around Ireland? Every new apartment block should have them.


  • #54
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,217 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    is_that_so wrote: »
    The ban is really effective from 2045 via the NCT with new ICE cars banned from 2030. That is enough time for us to adjust. The average age of cars here is 8.2 years so it's not as if there will be a huge rush , even in the next five years. The energy conundrum includes a lot more renewables along with a push on domestic solar plus options to feed extra into the grid. The whole insulation/ heat pump plans, in theory, will reduce our domestic consumption but there are still many bits that need to be fleshed out. 10-11 years is probably enough for a good bit of it.


    However, on a rolling basis, cars aged 40 or more are exempt from NCT.
    And cars aged 30-40 get a 2 year NCT. So if you have a 38 year old car that you NCt on 31/12/2044 you get an NCT for 2 years and its then exempt


    Therefore it is only really ICE cars from 2006 onwards that are impacted. And on a rolling basis other cars are added. EG my 2009 superb. Will be impacted by the ban, but 3 years later hits 40 years old and is NCT exempt and therefore road legal by default


  • #55
    26000 Elephants
    Registered Users Posts: 3,152 ✭✭✭26000 Elephants


    is_that_so wrote: »
    The ban is really effective from 2045 via the NCT with new ICE cars banned from 2030. That is enough time for us to adjust.

    Its not really a matter of adjusting. In everyday use there is little difference between EV and ICE. Apart from the charging, that is. And there lies the main issue.

    There are approx 250,000 new registrations of vehicles/ (of all classes, including public transport) each year. Within 10 years, nearly all these will need to be BEV/PHEV. All these vehicles will need to draw their power from the electric grid. The present grid only has to supply 21% of our energy needs; Within 15 years it will need to supply up to 80%. Apart from the obvious infrastructural issues with charging points, access, etc, where do you see all this power coming from? How do you think we will support up to 200,000 new EV;s a year? Offering "scrappage" to people seems a short sighted strategy when nobody seems to be addressing the real issue: How are we going to power *all* these vehicles.

    I've read the Climate Action PLan and as a work of well meaning aspirations its a wonderful read, but as a practical roadmap for future solutions its a waste of time.

    Like I said; 90% of our energy is fossil sourced, 6% from renewable electricity. How are we going to reverse that in such a short time frame?


  • #56
    Gael23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,123 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    I agree in the long run having an EV does pay off. But what if you can’t meet the increased upfront cost in the immediate term?


  • #57
    mondeo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,676 ✭✭✭mondeo


    If they put nuclear rods into cars they could run for 20 years without refueling, or even for the life of the vehicle. Little to no emissions either. There is the risk of radiation though if some garden mechanics dismantled the fuel cell hohoho. The whole city would have to be abandoned.


  • #58
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,783 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Nikki Sixx wrote: »
    Should they not be putting charging points for electric cars in in in new developments around Ireland? Every new apartment block should have them.

    Its becoming part of the Planning and Building Regulation requirements.


  • #59
    elperello
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,580 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Nikki Sixx wrote: »
    Should they not be putting charging points for electric cars in in in new developments around Ireland? Every new apartment block should have them.

    They are currently giving PP for apartments with no parking spaces never mind charging points if they are near public transport.


  • #60
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,688 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    kceire wrote: »
    Its becoming part of the Planning and Building Regulation requirements.

    Interesting. Is there a deadline/date set for this?


  • Advertisement
  • #61
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,783 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Interesting. Is there a deadline/date set for this?

    Not that i'm aware of just yet.
    Some LA's insist on a % of parking spots to be EV only with the remaining capable of been adapted to EV charging in the future.

    Its been talked about at Planning workshops currently, but until it is in legislation, Developers wont put it in as its an additional cost.

    The Part L Building Regulations are being reviewed this year so hopefully that may mention it also.


  • #62
    26000 Elephants
    Registered Users Posts: 3,152 ✭✭✭26000 Elephants


    kceire wrote: »
    Developers wont put it in as its an additional cost.

    Developers will simply price it in, there is no issue from that perspective.

    The issue is that in the current housing crisis, the additional requirement to support EV's will put extra price pressure on an already pressured market. And for who? Should those who choose to use public transport/ride sharing/Go Cars be forced to pay for this extra infrastructure as well?

    Is it not a bit worrying that we have already scheduled the banning of petrol/diesel cars yet we still haven't a clear strategy to support EV's?


  • #63
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,783 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    26000 Elephants wrote: »
    Developers will simply price it in, there is no issue from that perspective.

    When it becomes mandatory as part of the Planning conditions or Building Regulations, they will price it in of course, there's no issue then.

    But now, right now on the ground, they will not put it in at all. I am involved in the regulatory side of Construction and i'm on different sites every day dealing with these developers, and they simply wont put it in currently.

    I've even pointed out that the correct RCBO, cabling to an external terminal would save the house holder multiples of the base cost in a year or as they wont have to route the cable back to the Consumer Unit, but no interest.


  • #64
    alfaromeo84
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭alfaromeo84


    If a mobile phone can be charged wirelessly, could EV's not be too


  • #65
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,100 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    alfaromeo84 wrote: »
    If a mobile phone can be charged wirelessly, could EV's not be too

    Technically yes, but the technology is very lossy. Also, the futher the antenna is from the charging base the less power that can be transmitted. For a car, you'd be outputting a lot of electricity with only a relatively small amount actually charging the car so probably isn't worth it.


  • #66
    26000 Elephants
    Registered Users Posts: 3,152 ✭✭✭26000 Elephants


    kceire wrote: »
    But now, right now on the ground, they will not put it in at all. I am involved in the regulatory side of Construction and i'm on different sites every day dealing with these developers, and they simply wont put it in currently.

    I've yet to meet a developer who wont do something where he can add a profit to the price! I imagine the resistance is more due to the planning and installation complexities involved and the difficulty in recovering the cost where there is low demand. Pragmatically, however, it needs to be the responsibility of the EV owner.
    I've even pointed out that the correct RCBO, cabling to an external terminal would save the house holder multiples of the base cost in a year or as they wont have to route the cable back to the Consumer Unit, but no interest.

    Actually that makes more sense - gives people the option later, with lower up front costs for purchasers.


  • Advertisement
  • #67
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,891 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Today, there is a 2000 MW difference between demand in the night and daytime demand. With domestic charging and a modicum of smart metering which would ensure that charging took place between 01:00 and 05:00 then this 2000 MW could be used without any extra capacity on the grid. That would charge a fair few yokes.


  • #68
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    Today, there is a 2000 MW difference between demand in the night and daytime demand. With domestic charging and a modicum of smart metering which would ensure that charging took place between 01:00 and 05:00 then this 2000 MW could be used without any extra capacity on the grid. That would charge a fair few yokes.

    That's 270000 cars simultaneously charging at 7.4 kW each (which is at the high end of what a typical house can currently support). If they on average traveled 100 km a day charging would take 2 hours per car so up to 540000 cars could be charged overnight with smart metering.


  • #69
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    mcbert wrote: »
    I've been wondering about this. Where did you get this number? I'm really wondering the median end-of-life/scrappage age of cars here? Always assumed it was around 10-11yrs but it must be some years longer if the average is 8.2...
    Google. Here's one link that gives some historical context.

    https://www.completecar.ie/car-news/article/8864/Average-age-of-Irish-cars-is-falling


  • #70
    26000 Elephants
    Registered Users Posts: 3,152 ✭✭✭26000 Elephants


    samih wrote: »
    That's 270000 cars simultaneously charging at 7.4 kW each (which is at the high end of what a typical house can currently support). If they on average traveled 100 km a day charging would take 2 hours per car so up to 540000 cars could be charged overnight with smart metering.

    At 7.4kW a Hyundai Kona takes 5.2 hours to charge enough to cover 100km (39kw)

    Where are you getting your figures from?

    For clarity, Ive used this


  • #71
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    26000 Elephants wrote: »
    At 7.4kW a Hyundai Kona takes 5.2 hours to charge enough to cover 100km (39kw)

    Where are you getting your figures from?

    For clarity, Ive used this

    In 5.2 hours the car in theory is able to charge for (37 kWh - inefficiencies) so say 34 kWh. As the car is rated at about 15 kWh/100 km that is roughly 225 km of range charged in the timeframe. Not sure where the link you posted get their numbers from but they are incorrect.

    Edit: i used the link you supplied and I came up with these values which pretty much confirm what I just posted (they are a bit better but not attainable in real life I think). For pricing just convert the pence and pound to cent and euro as I used the price it would cost using my night time rate 8c/kWh. 180 miles is about 280 kilometers.

    HYUNDAI KONA Electric
    5.6 hrs
    Your charging time
    39 kWh
    kWh added
    180 miles
    Miles added
    £3.12
    Your charge cost
    1.7p
    Cost per mile


  • Advertisement
  • #72
    26000 Elephants
    Registered Users Posts: 3,152 ✭✭✭26000 Elephants


    samih wrote: »
    Not sure where the link you posted get their numbers from but they are incorrect.

    Yeah, you are right, i checked here.

    I think i set the range (60 miles - 100km) as a target in the earlier link, it obviously just threw back 5.6 hours as a default for max charging.


  • #73
    cournioni
    Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 12,739 Mod ✭✭✭✭cournioni


    Irishphotodesk wrote: »
    Why not create kinetic roads and ensure cars are adapted to benefit from the kinetic energy created, any surplus could go into the national grid.

    Even if we did it for motorways a lot of EVs would be charged while travelling.

    We are derailing the original thread... I'm open to a scrappage scheme in 2020 for EVs but it would need to really make the purchase affordable.
    We can barely maintain the roads we have at the moment, never mind building kinetic roads. :D


Advertisement