Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

frash · 05-11-2020 9:51am #1

Dun Laoghaire Rathdown are trying to do some great stuff with cycle lanes at the moment which you can read about on the following link.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/radical-expansion-of-cycle-infrastructure-planned-for-south-dublin-1.4396926

It's causing a lot of moaning from some drivers as roads are made one way leading to traffic build up on alternate routes.
Business are also lobbying for the planned changes not to happen as well as the re-instatement of the roads on the existing cycleway.

I'm a driver & a part-time cyclist but I think it's a great initiative, especially the cycle route from Sandycove to Blackrock (which will eventually be extended to Booterstown at least).

Anyway, like I said there's a lot of lobbying against it so I thought I'd balance it out a bit & do my own lobbying in favour of it & where better than the boards cycling forum

If you could take 2 mins to do this survey it would be great - it closes tomorrow though is the only thing!

https://dlrcoco.citizenspace.com/infrastructure-climate-change/dlr-safe-walking-cycling-routes-consultation/consultation/intro/?fbclid=IwAR3LTeKIcT8U__CrMla6v-ugeOJAm1dokl3bks6QHBnLQbE3XKH7kkV8IbM

Thanks

Macy0161 · 05-11-2020 1:32pm

Done, as all three potentially part of my commute if/ when back in the office!

Planet X · 05-11-2020 4:29pm

Done.

Seaswimmer · 06-11-2020 6:02pm

I live in the area and the local business group have commissioned a report to try and stop the one way piece on Deansgrange Road. It is a 45 page report and towards the end they offer 4 alternative routes for cycling instead of the dual cycleway beside the cemetery. They obviously never spoke to anyone using a bike. All their suggestions have long diversions, hills, multiple crossing points and right turns. It actually reminds me of the way DLR used to design cycle lanes. it would be laughable if it wasn't put together by so called transport consultants.

https://www.dropbox.com/preview/%20DVBG%20Active%20School%20Travel%20Submission%20v1.5.pdf?role=personal

daragh_ · 06-11-2020 6:07pm

Seaswimmer wrote: »

I live in the area and the local business group have commissioned a report to try and stop the one way piece on Deansgrange Road. It is a 45 page report and towards the end they offer 4 alternative routes for cycling instead of the dual cycleway beside the cemetery. They obviously never spoke to anyone using a bike. All their suggestions have long diversions, hills, multiple crossing points and right turns. It actually reminds me of the way DLR used to design cycle lanes. it would be laughable if it wasn't put together by so called transport consultants.

Is that available online?

Seth Brundle · 06-11-2020 6:14pm

Seaswimmer wrote: »

I live in the area and the local business group have commissioned a report to try and stop the one way piece on Deansgrange Road. It is a 45 page report and towards the end they offer 4 alternative routes for cycling instead of the dual cycleway beside the cemetery. They obviously never spoke to anyone using a bike. All their suggestions have long diversions, hills, multiple crossing points and right turns. It actually reminds me of the way DLR used to design cycle lanes. it would be laughable if it wasn't put together by so called transport consultants.

https://www.dropbox.com/preview/%20DVBG%20Active%20School%20Travel%20Submission%20v1.5.pdf?role=personal

I have no idea who the transport consultants were but I assume that as they weren't independent, they were commissioned to find any alternative routes so that cyclists wouldn't be in the way of drivers being victimised by the council on the Deansgrange Rd.

Seaswimmer · 06-11-2020 6:15pm

daragh_ wrote: »

Is that available online?

no. I put up a link but not sure can you access it on Dropbox... it is too big to attach (9mb)

AndrewJRenko · 08-11-2020 2:13pm

Seaswimmer wrote: »

I live in the area and the local business group have commissioned a report to try and stop the one way piece on Deansgrange Road. It is a 45 page report and towards the end they offer 4 alternative routes for cycling instead of the dual cycleway beside the cemetery. They obviously never spoke to anyone using a bike. All their suggestions have long diversions, hills, multiple crossing points and right turns. It actually reminds me of the way DLR used to design cycle lanes. it would be laughable if it wasn't put together by so called transport consultants.

https://www.dropbox.com/preview/%20DVBG%20Active%20School%20Travel%20Submission%20v1.5.pdf?role=personal

Thanks, is there an option to make it available without requiring a Dropbox account please?

A very small number of businesses in Deans Grange (as far as I can see, two businesses) have these posters up;

123561377_10221207273425963_8891682228080477525_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=2&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=hQaQTJv6orQAX_X9sS2&_nc_ht=scontent-dub4-1.xx&oh=2159ab0f310f5f10c09bd8ed338c5baa&oe=5FC9740F

123561377_10221207273425963_8891682228080477525_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=2&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=hQaQTJv6orQAX_X9sS2&_nc_ht=scontent-dub4-1.xx&oh=2159ab0f310f5f10c09bd8ed338c5baa&oe=5FC9740F

What group is behind the consultancy report?

eeeee · 08-11-2020 4:03pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Thanks, is there an option to make it available without requiring a Dropbox account please?

A very small number of businesses in Deans Grange (as far as I can see, two businesses)

What group is behind the consultancy report?

Which businesses?

AndrewJRenko · 08-11-2020 5:16pm

eeeee wrote: »

Which businesses?

From what I could see it was the two adjacent takeaways - Saba and Tiger Pizza. I didn't see any others with the poster up.

Alias G · 08-11-2020 6:08pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

From what I could see it was the two adjacent takeaways - Saba and Tiger Pizza. I didn't see any others with the poster up.

Last time I give my business to either of those establishments so.

Seaswimmer · 08-11-2020 7:10pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

From what I could see it was the two adjacent takeaways - Saba and Tiger Pizza. I didn't see any others with the poster up.

Most of the businesses have it. Some with huge big posters and other with small A4 type. The business group claim there is over 30 businesses in the area all against the proposal.

Seaswimmer · 08-11-2020 7:13pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Thanks, is there an option to make it available without requiring a Dropbox account please?

A very small number of businesses in Deans Grange (as far as I can see, two businesses) have these posters up;

What group is behind the consultancy report?

I am not sure. it is too big to attach as a pdf and it is not online so I cant forward a link.

This is the organisation that produced the report.

https://transportinsights.com/case-studies/

and a group called the Deansgrange Business Group commissioned it..

AndrewJRenko · 08-11-2020 8:58pm

Seaswimmer wrote: »

Most of the businesses have it. Some with huge big posters and other with small A4 type. The business group claim there is over 30 businesses in the area all against the proposal.

Strange though that the name of the business group isn't on the posters? I'll have to take a closer look, as I could only see the posters on the two businesses I mentioned. Can you mention any specific businesses that definitely have it?

Seaswimmer · 08-11-2020 11:11pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Strange though that the name of the business group isn't on the posters? I'll have to take a closer look, as I could only see the posters on the two businesses I mentioned. Can you mention any specific businesses that definitely have it?

Fellinis the restaurant across the road have a smaller version, the Grange pharmacy definitely have one. I will be over in the morning to SuperValu so I will have a closer look along that row..Didnt see one on the Grange pub..Probably because they know I cycle and if I stop going there they will have to let a barman go:):)

eeeee · 08-11-2020 11:15pm

Seaswimmer wrote: »

Most of the businesses have it. Some with huge big posters and other with small A4 type. The business group claim there is over 30 businesses in the area all against the proposal.

Fcuk sake.
Is the boycott list anywhere?

Seth Brundle · 09-11-2020 1:24pm

Over in Templeogue, the council have come up with the idea of not adopting bus lanes and the removal of the existing cycle lanes to enable more parking...

https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1325749299469225987

Seaswimmer · 09-11-2020 5:25pm

Seaswimmer wrote: »

Fellinis the restaurant across the road have a smaller version, the Grange pharmacy definitely have one. I will be over in the morning to SuperValu so I will have a closer look along that row..Didnt see one on the Grange pub..Probably because they know I cycle and if I stop going there they will have to let a barman go:):)

Had a walk around the area today and I am a bit more encouraged. It seems like Saba, Tiger Pizza and the Grange pharmacy are the only businesses with the big (A1?) posters. Newsagents, FXB, Fellinis all have very small (A5?) versions.
But Pure pharmacy, new flower shop,SuperValu, Liberos, the Grange, Insomnia, dry cleaners, Wardrobe shop all have none at present. None of the car dealerships appear to have them either.

magicbastarder · 09-11-2020 6:08pm

interesting, in malahide during the new street pedestrianisation fuss, there seemed to be a clear line between which outlets had the posters and which didn't; any shops part of a larger organisation didn't have them, and the 'one off' shops did.

Seth Brundle · 13-11-2020 12:27pm

Allegedly, a pharmacy in Dundrun [sic] is opposed to the new measures that will help improve people's health...

https://twitter.com/OConnorOisin/status/1327168148303458306

Seaswimmer · 13-11-2020 6:56pm

Good Afternoon,

Council Officials have provided an update on their recent public engagement process for the proposed new cycle routes.

According to officials, 5,978 submissions were received via their Citizen’s Space consultation hub, letter, email and other platforms. 5,454 submissions were received via the Citizen’s Space consultation hub alone. Officials are currently reviewing and validating all submissions.

This is an unprecedented volume of submissions for a dlr public engagement process and demonstrates the extremely high level of public interest in these proposals. Officials state that it will take a number of weeks to review and consider the submissions, at which stage they will prepare a report on the project which will:

Record and summarise the submissions received and issues raised.
Include the Executive’s responses to issues raised.
Set out the Executive’s recommendations and conclusions with respect to Phase 1 of the public engagement and the overall project.
They then propose to organise an online briefing for Councillors in early December. Updates on the project will be posted here.

If you have any feedback for your local Councillors you can contact them at grpcouncillors@dlrcoco.ie or individually, details here.

Thank you to the many residents and business people who were in contact since my online public meeting. I incorporated the feedback into my own submission, which I have attached.

I hope you are well otherwise, if I can be of any assistance please let me know,

Is mise le meas,

Cormac

Cormac Devlin TD
Dun Laoghaire

Seaswimmer · 13-11-2020 7:01pm

Seaswimmer wrote: »

Good Afternoon,

Council Officials have provided an update on their recent public engagement process for the proposed new cycle routes.

According to officials, 5,978 submissions were received via their Citizen’s Space consultation hub, letter, email and other platforms. 5,454 submissions were received via the Citizen’s Space consultation hub alone. Officials are currently reviewing and validating all submissions.

This is an unprecedented volume of submissions for a dlr public engagement process and demonstrates the extremely high level of public interest in these proposals. Officials state that it will take a number of weeks to review and consider the submissions, at which stage they will prepare a report on the project which will:

Record and summarise the submissions received and issues raised.
Include the Executive’s responses to issues raised.
Set out the Executive’s recommendations and conclusions with respect to Phase 1 of the public engagement and the overall project.
They then propose to organise an online briefing for Councillors in early December. Updates on the project will be posted here.

If you have any feedback for your local Councillors you can contact them at grpcouncillors@dlrcoco.ie or individually, details here.

Thank you to the many residents and business people who were in contact since my online public meeting. I incorporated the feedback into my own submission, which I have attached.

I hope you are well otherwise, if I can be of any assistance please let me know,

Is mise le meas,

Cormac

Cormac Devlin TD
Dun Laoghaire

Cormac Devlin submission attached.

cletus · 13-11-2020 10:15pm

Just to play devils advocate a little bit, when I worked in retail, it was common enough to have people coming in to ask could they put a poster in the window. Very often the (usually part time) staff member just said fire away. This was less likely to happen in a 'franchise' or similar chain store, as there was generally a rule from head office about it.

Could be way out of course, but worth considering

sy_flembeck · 13-11-2020 11:32pm

cletus wrote: »

Just to play devils advocate a little bit, when I worked in retail, it was common enough to have people coming in to ask could they put a poster in the window. Very often the (usually part time) staff member just said fire away. This was less likely to happen in a 'franchise' or similar chain store, as there was generally a rule from head office about it.

Could be way out of course, but worth considering

A fair point but you'd hope a person in authority, on next entering the shop, would have removed same if they wished.

These business people took out a sponsored page on Facebook which I kept an eye on - and the responses were far from supportive of their cause in a lot of cases. In fact, a lot of the complainants were the usual suspects from the local forum wo blame cyclist if it rains.

From my reading of the opening statement - and I read it several times to be sure I wasn't misreading it - the owner of Tiger Pizza or said they were in favour of cycle safety - but not at the expense of jobs! Whatever the exact wording I was disgusted with it.

I'm glad another poster said the car dealers don't have these posters up as I have a car ordered in one of them for January. Perhaps they realise on which side their bread is buttered.

daragh_ · 14-11-2020 11:37am

Interesting point in Cormac Devlin's submission about deliveries to the the 3 Car Dealerships along Deansgrange Road. There will have to be some flexibility to allow for access and delivery.

I live off Pottery Road which isn't far away. We are constantly reporting the Car Hire Companies on Pottery Road for using the bike lanes as temporary parking and fleet storage. In fairness Cormac Devlin has been have been quick to respond to communication around this - as has Ossian Smyth - but it's an ongoing issue.

I think the point about increased levels of traffic up Kill Lane to Baker's Corner and down Abbey Road is legitimate. Abbey Road at that junction is a real pinch point at rush hour. The Bus Stop just after the lights interferes with the flow of traffic with backup traffic waiting to get past a stopped bus cascading back across the two previous sets of lights. Not great for the flow of bikes either - particularly sketchy for kids cycling towards Rockford and Newpark.

Seaswimmer · 15-11-2020 10:54pm

sy_flembeck wrote: »

A fair point but you'd hope a person in authority, on next entering the shop, would have removed same if they wished.

These business people took out a sponsored page on Facebook which I kept an eye on - and the responses were far from supportive of their cause in a lot of cases. In fact, a lot of the complainants were the usual suspects from the local forum wo blame cyclist if it rains.

From my reading of the opening statement - and I read it several times to be sure I wasn't misreading it - the owner of Tiger Pizza or said they were in favour of cycle safety - but not at the expense of jobs! Whatever the exact wording I was disgusted with it.

I'm glad another poster said the car dealers don't have these posters up as I have a car ordered in one of them for January. Perhaps they realise on which side their bread is buttered.

they also claim in the consultants report that a lot of their business comes from areas north of their take away (Springhill, Rowanbryn, fintans, ect) and that they now face a long detour to deliver here. This area is no more than 1km from their shop along Deansgrange road. Surely electric bikes (or even normal bikes) could do these trips and be able to travel both ways on the cycle lane much quicker than cars or motorbikes. I am not sure anyway supporting a business making hundreds of delivery trips (by their own admission) in small, old cars is sustainable. I personally wouldn't use them for this reason alone.

sy_flembeck · 15-11-2020 11:17pm

Seaswimmer wrote: »

they also claim in the consultants report that a lot of their business comes from areas north of their take away (Springhill, Rowanbryn, fintans, ect) and that they now face a long detour to deliver here. This area is no more than 1km from their shop along Deansgrange road. Surely electric bikes (or even normal bikes) could do these trips and be able to travel both ways on the cycle lane much quicker than cars or motorbikes. I am not sure anyway supporting a business making hundreds of delivery trips (by their own admission) in small, old cars is sustainable. I personally wouldn't use them for this reason alone.

Indeed. They may have heard of a little known company who have made a packet doing just that

buffalo · 18-11-2020 9:17am

SoDuCoCo are having a public consultation on some plans: https://consult.sdublincoco.ie/en/consultation/cysd-cycle-south-dublin-programme-work

PDF of proposals: https://consult.sdublincoco.ie/en/consultation/cysd-cycle-south-dublin-programme-work

First thought... maybe there are existing cycle tracks between all those sections, but it looks like they aren't planning for a proper network even in the long term?

jay0109 · 18-11-2020 9:20am

These proposed cycle routes in DLR featured a Primetime report last night on RTE. It was the last item of the 3 on the show.

Grassey · 18-11-2020 9:32am

buffalo wrote:

First thought... maybe there are existing cycle tracks between all those sections, but it looks like they aren't planning for a proper network even in the long term?

You need to look at page 22 of the booklet to see it overlaid on the existing network. It does go a long way to join up the disparate sections. Though I've noticed some existing tracks missing from the map, And others near me included that don't meet their 'safe routes' criteria.

https://consult.sdublincoco.ie/en/system/files/materials/5579/66774%20SDCC%20Cycle%20Draft%20Strategy%20A4%20Landscape.pdf

buffalo · 18-11-2020 9:49am

Grassey wrote: »

You need to look at page 22 of the booklet to see it overlaid on the existing network. It does go a long way to join up the disparate sections. Though I've noticed some existing tracks missing from the map, And others near me included that don't meet their 'safe routes' criteria.

https://consult.sdublincoco.ie/en/system/files/materials/5579/66774%20SDCC%20Cycle%20Draft%20Strategy%20A4%20Landscape.pdf

Thanks for that - bit disappointing, as many of those that I've used are painted without any kind of segregation or safety features. Exceptions are the N4 and the newer big ring roads.

It'll be great to get that pinch point on the N81 beyond Jobstown sorted.

Grassey · 18-11-2020 1:47pm

buffalo wrote:

It'll be great to get that pinch point on the N81 beyond Jobstown sorted.

The last set of plans I saw (which was a good bit back) had the cycle lane stop, cross the road, through a kissing gate, run through the park, then another kidding gate, and back across on the bend.

I would not expect this has changed

buffalo · 18-11-2020 3:00pm

Grassey wrote: »

The last set of plans I saw (which was a good bit back) had the cycle lane stop, cross the road, through a kissing gate, run through the park, then another kidding gate, and back across on the bend.

I would not expect this has changed

Seth Brundle · 19-11-2020 11:50pm

I spent most of today in and around Blackrock today. Walked from the B. Clinic to the village and was pleasantly surprised at the recent changes there. There are loads of cafes, all seemingly doing good trade and plenty of people sitting on the street furniture. It was a nice place to be.
My only gripe was that you've to walk right up to the front of the Frascati centre, passing a major junction before you get the opportunity to cross the road.
Nonetheless, it is an example of how a village centre can be people friendly.

Seaswimmer · 20-11-2020 10:24am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I spent most of today in and around Blackrock today. Walked from the B. Clinic to the village and was pleasantly surprised at the recent changes there. There are loads of cafes, all seemingly doing good trade and plenty of people sitting on the street furniture. It was a nice place to be.
My only gripe was that you've to walk right up to the front of the Frascati centre, passing a major junction before you get the opportunity to cross the road.
Nonetheless, it is an example of how a village centre can be people friendly.

The changes seem to be having a positive impact.. However the "death of the village" brigade are now complaining that it is too busy. You cant win.
On the crossing point issue.. Are there not pedestrian lights at the Blackrock Park/Mount Merrion Ave junction? I have come through that junction thousands of tmes but cant temember can you cross there safely..

Seth Brundle · 20-11-2020 10:57am

There are lights there to cross Mt Merrion Ave but not across the dual carriageway.

Seaswimmer · 20-11-2020 12:24pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

There are lights there to cross Mt Merrion Ave but not across the dual carriageway.

Is this where you mean? Looks like there are pedestrian lights there but must say I never noticed them before as I wouldn't be walking there much.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.30226,-6.1829256,3a,75y,52.77h,95.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sI1nX4LI-xuMLHwIfpunQxg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Seth Brundle · 20-11-2020 12:48pm

Funny, don't recall seeing them but maybe wasn't looking there as was coming from the Clinic - I must have been having a blonde moment as they say

Seaswimmer · 26-11-2020 3:37pm

Seaswimmer wrote: »

Had a walk around the area today and I am a bit more encouraged. It seems like Saba, Tiger Pizza and the Grange pharmacy are the only businesses with the big (A1?) posters. Newsagents, FXB, Fellinis all have very small (A5?) versions.
But Pure pharmacy, new flower shop,SuperValu, Liberos, the Grange, Insomnia, dry cleaners, Wardrobe shop all have none at present. None of the car dealerships appear to have them either.

The sign was removed from FXB last week and I had a call from the manager just now. He was very apologetic and said he was on a weeks holidays and the sign should never have gone up. He explained that they are very involved and supportive of the local community (which I know to be true). I did buy some fillet steak last Saturday when I saw the sign down so I am happy to deal with them again.
No idea if the email had any effect but he was at pains to point out that it would not be company policy to put up controversial signage.

Seaswimmer · 26-11-2020 5:05pm

Slightly cycling infrastructure related. New apartment development in Deansgrange but what caught my eye was 150 apartments, 99 car parking spaces and 300 plus cycling spaces!!
So the ratio of car sparking spaces is well under 1 per unit..

http://www.deansgrangeshd.com/

Seth Brundle · 01-12-2020 10:44am

https://twitter.com/OConnorOisin/status/1333535201423732736

hesker · 01-12-2020 12:05pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

https://twitter.com/OConnorOisin/status/1333535201423732736

That will test your wet gear.

Tombo2001 · 01-12-2020 12:26pm

Wish there was a similar such thread for the northside - maybe I imagine, but I find both the infrastructure & the discussion around infrastructure (i.e. cycling advocacy groups) to be quite heavily southside focusses.

Seth Brundle · 01-12-2020 12:30pm

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Wish there was a similar such thread for the northside - maybe I imagine, but I find both the infrastructure & the discussion around infrastructure (i.e. cycling advocacy groups) to be quite heavily southside focusses.

Maybe start a thread on infrastructure in de nortsoide then?

ted1 · 01-12-2020 12:41pm

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Wish there was a similar such thread for the northside - maybe I imagine, but I find both the infrastructure & the discussion around infrastructure (i.e. cycling advocacy groups) to be quite heavily southside focusses.

Sure do they not all ride horses on the North side !!!

You have to hand it to DLRCoCo they have been good to us

magicbastarder · 01-12-2020 12:50pm

or else we just make this thread about planned infrastructure in general? rather than having a northside/southside divide.

Seaswimmer · 02-12-2020 1:15pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

or else we just make this thread about planned infrastructure in general? rather than having a northside/southside divide.

Probably best as some of us cross the border on a daily basis!!!

frash · 02-12-2020 1:27pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

or else we just make this thread about planned infrastructure in general? rather than having a northside/southside divide.

OP here
No probs if you make it Dublin wide - you'll need to change the thread title I guess

I only started this thread to even out the lobbying going on by some businesses in DLR that are opposed to the cycle lanes

Seth Brundle · 02-12-2020 11:06pm

https://twitter.com/Pidge/status/1334134745542897673?s=19

saccades · 05-12-2020 8:09pm

So long as the fella that "designed" the cycle paths at Cherrywood business park isn't allowed anywhere near the designs.

They had a blank sheet of paper and balls it up for drivers, pedestrians and cyclists.

I only hope that the flats and schools side of the wyattville road actually have some thought go into them.

frash · 10-12-2020 8:24pm

A lot of it shot down in flames

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10164495922850324&id=780905323

Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

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