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Journalism and cycling

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    #302
    cdaly_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,440 ✭✭✭cdaly_


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    It depends on how far from work you live though. I couldn't amble along at 15kmh for my 30+km cycle

    True but from the excuses not to cycle POV, you could cycle to bus/train and then cycle again at the other end.


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    #303
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,846 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Chuchote wrote: »
    The Dutch and Danes manage to do all this and more on bikes, and the country's buses are full of people going home for the weekend.
    What is this thing about showers in work? I've never needed a shower after cycling in to work. It's not the Tour de France!


    Alot of people I know in Holland that have families have cars!!! Was over there for a wedding a few years ago, plenty of people arrived in cars, actually most


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    #304
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,846 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    cdaly_ wrote: »
    51933749.jpg

    aeb2512fe603a8c0bac0c59abdbdcf39.jpg

    GoCar or the club organises transport.


    Actually its cheaper to keep a car on the road than use GoCar every weekend for a trip home!

    Where do you fit a child on that bike? Do you really think a family of four shopping would fit on that.


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    #305
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,846 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Well, yes, good point. And if there aren't showers in work, it might be worth factoring in a quick visit to the nearest Corpo swimming pool to your work, where you could shower and change.

    But getting back to the economics, people often buy houses in Gorey or the lonely reaches of Co Meath for the savings in house prices. But if they factored in the cost of commuting and added it to their mortgage payments, they might actually be far better off to ditch the car and buy in Kimmage or Whitehall and cycle to work and school.

    If they want to go home on the weekend and visit the mammy (an idea I warmly commend), apart from the bus there's car hire, which has come down in price startlingly in recent years.

    Car hire for a weekend is over 40 euro not counting petrol. You also have to get the car back at a certain hour and then make your way back home from there.

    I would spend a 1000 a year on fuel roughly and 250 on tax, 400 on insurance and 400 max on car service. That's 2050, car hire for me would come in at 2080 a year before fuel.

    When you a family a car is essential, what do you do when the kid has a split head and needs to go to Crumlin hospital? Rent a car, tell him to cycle a bike, wait for a bus/luas.?


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    #306
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,923 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Weakish letter from Roger Garland today - it starts off strong, asking for compulsory purchase of land beside roads for cycling and walking trails, but the last line weakens it; first line and last line quoted here:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/funding-for-cycling-1.2842905



    Oddly, though the letter is very clearly about cycling and walking, the headline is only about cycling; Irish Times trying to bait a controversy?

    That's no different to the cycle campaign using non cycling CSO stats/figures to pump up its own numbers and calls for funding.

    But yes, its precisely like their reporting of the UN research. They know what will get the clicks


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    #307
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    average_runner wrote: »
    Car hire for a weekend is over 40 euro not counting petrol. You also have to get the car back at a certain hour and then make your way back home from there.

    I would spend a 1000 a year on fuel roughly and 250 on tax, 400 on insurance and 400 max on car service. That's 2050, car hire for me would come in at 2080 a year before fuel.

    When you a family a car is essential, what do you do when the kid has a split head and needs to go to Crumlin hospital? Rent a car, tell him to cycle a bike, wait for a bus/luas.?

    I got rid of my car at a point when money was particularly tight; I worked out that it cost me €2,000 a year including tax, insurance, petrol, service, new tyres, NCT, etc; I hadn't factored in parking. The car was a gift, so there were no repayments, nor any replacement cost, to consider.

    According to the AA, the average cost of running a family car is currently €11,000.

    Now that I don't have a car, I don't think in terms of what I'd do if… But if the kid split his head I'd probably call an ambulance or a taxi, which could go faster through bus lanes than a private car could.


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    #308
    cdaly_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,440 ✭✭✭cdaly_


    average_runner wrote: »
    I would spend a 1000 a year on fuel roughly and 250 on tax, 400 on insurance and 400 max on car service. That's 2050, car hire for me would come in at 2080 a year before fuel.
    You forgot the 4000 per year depreciation on the cost of the car.
    When you a family a car is essential, what do you do when the kid has a split head and needs to go to Crumlin hospital? Rent a car, tell him to cycle a bike, wait for a bus/luas.?
    Ambulance if urgent, taxi if less so.
    Where do you fit a child on that bike? Do you really think a family of four shopping would fit on that.
    Nope. But you would be less likely to do a full week's shop in one go as it becomes more convenient to go to the shops on the bike than the car. You can get trailers which will let you get the kids around, will double up as shopping trailers and, as the kids grow, they have their own bikes.


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    #309
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Why would you bring a family of four on a shopping trip? I shop on the bike, with a basket and panniers and a shopping list. If someone thinks of something urgent to buy, they can text me.


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    #310
    Fian
    Registered Users Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭Fian


    average_runner wrote: »
    Car hire for a weekend is over 40 euro not counting petrol. You also have to get the car back at a certain hour and then make your way back home from there.

    I would spend a 1000 a year on fuel roughly and 250 on tax, 400 on insurance and 400 max on car service. That's 2050, car hire for me would come in at 2080 a year before fuel.

    When you a family a car is essential, what do you do when the kid has a split head and needs to go to Crumlin hospital? Rent a car, tell him to cycle a bike, wait for a bus/luas.?

    We have four kids, they all play various sports and need to get to matches etc. at the weekends. My wife drives to work. So we have a car.

    to answer the final question you pose above - when my kids get injured we generally hop on the Luas to go to the vhi clinic in Dundrum. Faster than driving there and we live about 200 yards from a luas station. I have also used to luas to go to the beacon hospital for outpatient appointments with a broken arm. I think part of the rationale for locating the childrens hospital in James street is that it is accessible by luas and public transport right?

    Before I got back on the bike we had two cars, one of which I used to drive to work.

    So there has been a massive saving for us from my buying a bike. No tax, fuel, insurance or maintenance on a second car for the last 5/6 years really adds up.

    My point is only slightly undermined by the amount of money I spend on cycling related paraphenalia and a growing stable of bikes, honest

    >.>

    <.<


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    #311
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Why would you bring a family of four on a shopping trip? I shop on the bike, with a basket and panniers and a shopping list. If someone thinks of something urgent to buy, they can text me.

    I know a family that do just that! the mother cannot drive, so the whole family (two kids) have to go and do the weekly shopping trip! (Why Daddy cant do the shopping on his own is another story!)


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    #312
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    average_runner wrote: »
    Your logic doesn't quite work here, people need their car for various reasons:

    1) No showers in work, so can't cycle then.
    2) People need a car at weekends for hobbies etc, going to play golf, cant really do that on a bike.
    3) Alot of people have to do shopping in one go, need a car for that also.
    4) Kids need to go to sport activities, when more than one kid your going from A to B in a certain time frame, need car for that, cant bring 3 kids on a bike from Dundrum to Portmarnock for a hockey match.
    3) Alot of city people aren't from Dublin, so they like to go home at the weekend, your not going to cycle 200k on a friday night

    We've been conditioned to think that life without a car in unimaginable. Granted, cycling doesn't suit everyone in every scenario, but there's plenty of situations that it does.

    Case in point - our GAA club is beside a soccer club, Saturday mornings are mayhem - people drive the kids to sports, park the car wherever they like, which frequently means on the road, double yellow, path, bike lane. I know these people - 99% of them could walk or cycle - it's a maximum one kilometer for them. But they insist on driving and them complaining about the lack of parking. In fact, one of the soccer pitches has been removed and converted into a car park - effective facilitation of car dependency.

    Agreed that a car is the most suitable option for ferrying kids to matches - I do this myself - but car pooling and rotating the runs can lower the amount of times a car has to be used.

    Cycling to work is achievable for a lot of people - given that over 50% of journeys by car are less than 2km and another huge chunk in the 5km range. Showers wouldn't be needed for these distances - they are a few minutes on a bike. I've has a shower in a previous job, none in the current one - it does make life easier, but showering before I cycle and having access to a bathroom goes a long way.

    Lots of everyday activities can be undertaken by bike - small errands to the shops, a cargo bike will take a full shop easily.


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    #313
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    Lots of everyday activities can be undertaken by bike - small errands to the shops, a cargo bike will take a full shop easily.

    I can do a full shop on an old Dawes, don't need a cargo bike. Not for a family of four, but if a family of four means at least two are likely to be able to do a good-sized shop each.
    Deedsie wrote: »
    It's relatively easy in Dublin but down the country a car is required unfortunately.

    Is it, though? Most of my country friends live within 5km of shops and schools and could cycle to them and to the pub or cafe. They have cars, but they could cycle if necessary.

    Rural ambulances are too often hopeless, and it's the norm for neighbours to fill in for each other if kids have to go to hospital. That kind of give-and-take is the norm in most rural areas; when living outside Dublin I've often picked up groceries on my bike for people stuck at home, and in return had lifts to the pub. There are school buses for rural kids (thanks, Donogh O'Malley).

    On the other hand, there is often worse driving in country places; I was emailing back and forth with a friend in west Cork and expressed surprise that he - a very very green person - drove for short journeys with no hefting to do, rather than cycling. Next day he pulled out the bike and was knocked arse over tip by a young lad driving recklessly around a corner.


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    #314
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,846 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Chuchote wrote: »
    I got rid of my car at a point when money was particularly tight; I worked out that it cost me €2,000 a year including tax, insurance, petrol, service, new tyres, NCT, etc; I hadn't factored in parking. The car was a gift, so there were no repayments, nor any replacement cost, to consider.

    According to the AA, the average cost of running a family car is currently €11,000.

    Now that I don't have a car, I don't think in terms of what I'd do if… But if the kid split his head I'd probably call an ambulance or a taxi, which could go faster through bus lanes than a private car could.


    An ambulance, you be waiting mate and its a disgrace that you would call an ambulance for something like that.

    If you damage the taxi it will cost you


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    #315
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,846 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    cdaly_ wrote: »
    You forgot the 4000 per year depreciation on the cost of the car.

    Ambulance if urgent, taxi if less so.


    Nope. But you would be less likely to do a full week's shop in one go as it becomes more convenient to go to the shops on the bike than the car. You can get trailers which will let you get the kids around, will double up as shopping trailers and, as the kids grow, they have their own bikes.


    Its important to do the shop in one go, it gives me more time with my kids when I get home, means I can spend time with them doing things that are important for them, like sports, education, park walks, to the allotment, etc. Bringing them to a supermarket is not high on my list.

    Road is no place for a 3 year old or even a 6 year old. Seeing how cyclists and drivers behave on them
    Trailers are exactly safe so kids. Als


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    #316
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    I've lived in Dublin without a car. It's doable, since 95 percent of the time you don't need it, but it does make the remaining 5 percent a pain in the nuts. I may only drive it around once a week but I'd never go without one again.


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    #317
    mcgratheoin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,461 ✭✭✭mcgratheoin


    Deedsie wrote: »
    We have many citizens who need a car to get around, the elderly, the young, the disabled and vulnerable etc.

    I don't think anyone's disputing this, but what seems to happen is that everybody who drives is completely convinced that they absolutely need a car and couldn't survive without one. The person who drives their kids 1km down the road to a football match might tell you they need the car to bring their kids to Portmarnock (which is true and fair enough) but having the car for necessary trips turns into frequently using the car for unnecessary trips.

    As for my own anecdotal experience, we have one car which my wife uses for commuting (50km against traffic, mostly motorway) and I usually cycle. When my sister-in-law goes on holidays she leaves her car with us, making us a two car family. If I'm at home when my wife is working I then find myself driving the 1.5km to the shop rather than walking or cycling down the road.

    average_runner wrote:
    When you a family a car is essential, what do you do when the kid has a split head and needs to go to Crumlin hospital? Rent a car, tell him to cycle a bike, wait for a bus/luas.?
    What would you do if your kid needed to go to the hospital and your partner was gone in the car? Is it your suggestion that every household needs 2 cars?


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    #318
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,846 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    mcgratheoin wrote: »
    I don't think anyone's disputing this, but what seems to happen is that everybody who drives is completely convinced that they absolutely need a car and couldn't survive without one. The person who drives their kids 1km down the road to a football match might tell you they need the car to bring their kids to Portmarnock (which is true and fair enough) but having the car for necessary trips turns into frequently using the car for unnecessary trips.

    As for my own anecdotal experience, we have one car which my wife uses for commuting (50km against traffic, mostly motorway) and I usually cycle. When my sister-in-law goes on holidays she leaves her car with us, making us a two car family. If I'm at home when my wife is working I then find myself driving the 1.5km to the shop rather than walking or cycling down the road.



    What would you do if your kid needed to go to the hospital and your partner was gone in the car? Is it your suggestion that every household needs 2 cars?

    The car is always where the kids are. If my wife needs a car, she takes the inlaws car.


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    #319
    WindomEarle
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 47 ✭WindomEarle


    average_runner wrote: »
    The car is always where the kids are.
    Will your kids melt in the rain or get blown away by the wind or something?


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    #320
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,846 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    WindomEarle wrote: »
    Will your kids melt in the rain or get blown away by the wind or something?


    Nope, but I am not a parent that like to keep the kids stuck inside a house, so I would usually head off somewhere with them, usually outside Dublin at the weekend.


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    #321
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,745 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    average_runner wrote: »
    Car hire for a weekend is over 40 euro not counting petrol. You also have to get the car back at a certain hour and then make your way back home from there.

    I would spend a 1000 a year on fuel roughly and 250 on tax, 400 on insurance and 400 max on car service. That's 2050, car hire for me would come in at 2080 a year before fuel.

    When you a family a car is essential, what do you do when the kid has a split head and needs to go to Crumlin hospital? Rent a car, tell him to cycle a bike, wait for a bus/luas.?

    I spend about €500 a year on car rental, in total. I have two children.


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    #322
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,745 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Jep Gambardella wrote: »
    I've lived in Dublin without a car. It's doable, since 95 percent of the time you don't need it, but it does make the remaining 5 percent a pain in the nuts. I may only drive it around once a week but I'd never go without one again.

    You know this already, I'm sure. But if you live near a GoCar base it would be way cheaper just to join that.

    EDIT: Probably! I don't know your driving patterns, obviously!


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    #323
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,745 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    I have a folding bike, so car hire is a good bit easier with that.


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    #324
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,846 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    I spend about €500 a year on car rental, in total. I have two children.


    Where you hiring it from? We would need it from Friday to Monday morning every weekend. Long drives every second weekend, around 300k


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    #325
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,745 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Why do you need the car for three days solid though? The idea of GoCar and the like is you just rent for the time you're using it.

    Most car journeys we do are inside Dublin, and only if we're all travelling and public transport involves too many changes. If I have to do shopping, I use the cargo bike or one of the trailers. You can carry a lot that way. I got one of the kids's beds home from Ikea that way, and various rugs and mattresses and the like.

    We don't go for long drives overall. If we're going to another part of the country that isn't another city, I hire a car (Avis or the like, not GoCar; their model doesn't suit those journeys), but mostly I get public transport.

    Not saying that it's idea for everyone, but I like it. I especially like the extra money it frees up. Fair enough, if you like doing long journeys outside Dublin every weekend, it's cheaper to own a car, I'm sure.


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    #326
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,516 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    I spend about €500 a year on car rental, in total. I have two children.
    how much is the rental on the kids?


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    #327
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    Jep Gambardella wrote:
    I've lived in Dublin without a car. It's doable, since 95 percent of the time you don't need it, but it does make the remaining 5 percent a pain in the nuts. I may only drive it around once a week but I'd never go without one again.

    +1 to this. Also the 11k figure for running a car sounds quiet high. It would be interesting to see the breakdown but based on my own expenses I'd have to assume fuel costs are a big part of the estimate. If your not using a car daily you'd cut down on the biggest cumulative cost.

    Even though in my own case a large part of my yearly car milage is due to me driving to different races and sportives around the country.


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    #328
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    AA on car costs:

    http://www.theaa.ie/aa/motoring-advice/cost-of-motoring/cost-of-motoring-2015.aspx


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    #329
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    Thanks interesting. I found the figure for garage/parking costs quiet high but its the only thing unusual that stuck out. Still l think for anyone who cycles to work and uses public transport for other journeys the cost of having a car would be lower than what's there. But that's the bike giving you savings even if you don't ditch the car.


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    #330
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,516 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    they're quoting over €11 per day on "Garage/Parking/Misc. expenses".
    what do they define as miscellaneous expenses? maintenance is an obvious one, but my near ten year old car costs me a few hundred a year in maintenance. less than €500 anyway. if people are paying to park at work, that €4000 is over €18 a day in parking expenses, based on a 220 day year.


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    #331
    RandomAccess
    Registered Users Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭RandomAccess


    So Uber would fix Dublin?


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