London protests for second Brexit Vote

handlemaster · 21-10-2018 11:05am #1

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2018/oct/20/hundreds-of-thousands-attend-peoples-vote-march-in-london-video

Why isnt this story on RTE; this has huge implications for Ireland

700000 actually protesting this is huge

orourkeda1977 · 21-10-2018 11:08am

I'll never vote again if this happens.

Whether you agree with a vote or not is irrelevant once the result is known. If a referendum is called the vote should stand. Thats it.

Would anti abortion protesters or people who disagreed with gay marriage get a re-vote. No nor should they.

Gbear · 21-10-2018 11:10am

As we all know democracy is predicated on there only being one vote at the start, and then no more ever again.

kenmc · 21-10-2018 11:10am

Sounds a bit Irish. Like Lisbon: Oh you didn't vote the "right way", let's try again.

Mookie Blaylock · 21-10-2018 11:11am

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

I'll never vote again if this happens.

Whether you agree with a vote or not is irrelevant. If a referendum is called the vote should stand. Thats it.

Would anti abortion protesters or people who disagreed with gay marriage get a re-vote. No nor should they.

*Lisbon Treaty*

Guy:Incognito · 21-10-2018 11:11am

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

I'll never vote again if this happens.

Whether you agree with a vote or not is irrelevant. If a referendum is called the vote should stand. Thats it.

So people are not allowed to changed their minds? What's democratic about that?

Surely if it's the will of the people it wouldn't matter if there was 10 votes, because leave would win every time?

Presumably everyone is in favour of getting rid of divorce here seeing as that took a couple of goes? Get home rule off the table and take the vote back off women while we're at it.

Guy:Incognito · 21-10-2018 11:12am

kenmc wrote: »

Sounds a bit Irish. Like Lisbon: Oh you didn't vote the "right way", let's try again.

Not understanding the differences between 2 different votes and then using it as a griping point decades later sounds very Irish tbh.

orourkeda1977 · 21-10-2018 11:12am

who gets to decide when a re-vote is called?

Collie D · 21-10-2018 11:14am

Can we make asking "Why aren't RTE covering this story?" a yellow card offence?

Red card if they are.

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/1020/1005504-brexit-protest/

orourkeda1977 · 21-10-2018 11:14am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So people are not allowed to changed their minds? What's democratic about that?

Surely if it's the will of the people it wouldn't matter if there was 10 votes, because leave would win every time?

Then why dont we re-run every vote we've ever had.

People change their minds all the time. Tough.

secondly, what if a person changes their mind a second time

Fr_Dougal · 21-10-2018 11:14am

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

I'll never vote again if this happens.

Whether you agree with a vote or not is irrelevant once the result is known. If a referendum is called the vote should stand. Thats it.

Would anti abortion protesters or people who disagreed with gay marriage get a re-vote. No nor should they.

Massive majority voted to Repeal and for gay marriage, Brexit was close and the voters were lied to.

ancapailldorcha · 21-10-2018 11:15am

Clearly, every country should have one election at the start and then none ever for the rest of its history. Anything else is undemocratic.

I was at the march and it was fantastic. Great atmosphere, good craic and a beautiful day for it. Finished by debating with a leaver with a megaphone along with an engineer who'd travelled up for it and a lad with an England flag draped around him. Went for pints afterwards though megaphone man dropped out.

Guy:Incognito · 21-10-2018 11:15am

Collie D wrote: »

Can we make asking "Why aren't RTE covering this story?" a yellow card offence?

Red card if they are.

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/1020/1005504-brexit-protest/

Bonus points (double red card? ) if they use an RTE link to the story to show that RTE are not covering it. Always great when that happens

retalivity · 21-10-2018 11:15am

If they were going to re-vote, they should have had it a year ago. Too far gone now, what with them supposed to leave in 5 months.

Guy:Incognito · 21-10-2018 11:16am

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

.

Would anti abortion protesters or people who disagreed with gay marriage get a re-vote. No nor should they.

If they hadn't passed would you be campaigning for gay people never to be allowed to marry any time the subject came up?

kneemos · 21-10-2018 11:17am

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

I'll never vote again if this happens.

Whether you agree with a vote or not is irrelevant once the result is known. If a referendum is called the vote should stand. Thats it.

Would anti abortion protesters or people who disagreed with gay marriage get a re-vote. No nor should they.

Nobody knew what they were voting for in fairness though, probably still don't.

If the parameters for a brexit ever become clear I wouldn't see anything wrong with another vote.

orourkeda1977 · 21-10-2018 11:17am

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Massive majority voted to Repeal and for gay marriage, Brexit was close and the voters were lied to.

Majority rules. One vote is enough to win an election. That shouldnt matter.

I was simply using the gay marriage referendum as an example.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 21-10-2018 11:18am

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

I'll never vote again if this happens.

Whether you agree with a vote or not is irrelevant once the result is known. If a referendum is called the vote should stand. Thats it.

Would anti abortion protesters or people who disagreed with gay marriage get a re-vote. No nor should they.

And by extension of your logic, the one political party should be in government for ever because the people should only express an opinion on any one subject once.

Fr_Dougal · 21-10-2018 11:19am

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

Majority rules. One vote is enough to win an election. That shouldnt matter.

I was simply using the gay marriage referendum as an example.

The majority don’t want Brexit now. The majority of NI and Scotland voted against Brexit.

orourkeda1977 · 21-10-2018 11:19am

kneemos wrote: »

Nobody knew what they were voting for in fairness though, probably still don't.

If the parameters for a brexit ever become clear I wouldn't see anything wrong with another vote.

Does everybody in Ireland understand blasphemy legislation? Does every voter understand everything the president does?

Are we going to make every voter read the constitution before we have a referendum in this country?

I doubt it somehow.

orourkeda1977 · 21-10-2018 11:20am

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

The majority don’t want Brexit now. The majority of NI and Scotland voted against Brexit.

The majority wanted it at the time of the vote. Thats what counts.

Guy:Incognito · 21-10-2018 11:20am

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

Then why dont we re-run every vote we've ever had.

People change their minds all the time. Tough.

secondly, what if a person changes their mind a second time

"a person " can change their mind. That happens all the time. We're talking about " the people".

If the vote was very close and say and average of about 600000 people in a country die every year (the uk) and the majority of those are elderly, the highest group likely to vote leave, which then shifts the will of the people, why should they have to stick with something voted for by people it won't affect?

Mint Sauce · 21-10-2018 11:21am

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

I'll never vote again if this happens.

Whether you agree with a vote or not is irrelevant once the result is known. If a referendum is called the vote should stand. Thats it.

Would anti abortion protesters or people who disagreed with gay marriage get a re-vote. No nor should they.

Did you vote in the Abortion, Marriage, et al referendum here after Ireland re ran Lisburn. The UK electorate were lied to and deceived, and it has lead to the whole sh!testorm they are now in. I hope they get a revote, now that they know, or at least has a better idea, on what it really entails.

Guy:Incognito · 21-10-2018 11:22am

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

I was simply using the gay marriage referendum as an example.

So now use it as an example of what would happen if it had been defeated. Would you oppose all attempts to legalise same sex marriage in the future?

Cato the Elder · 21-10-2018 11:22am

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

The majority wanted it at the time of the vote. Thats what counts.

Is it though? Democracies change, as is seen in the fact that Brexit seems to be undoing the will of the people in 1975.

What's the time limit, if there is one?

Furthermore, I consider that Carthage must be destroyed.

kneemos · 21-10-2018 11:23am

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

Does everybody in Ireland understand blasphemy legislation? Does every voter understand everything the president does?

Are we going to make every voter read the constitution before we have a referendum in this country?

I doubt it somehow.

I would say they have a pretty good idea.

orourkeda1977 · 21-10-2018 11:24am

Desmond Abundant Starter wrote: »

And by extension of your logic, the one political party should be in government for ever because the people should only express an opinion on any one subject once.

General elections are due to be held every five years and presidential elections are held every seven years in this country.

Whoever gets the most seats\votes in these elections wins.

Thats how it works.

If the same political party remains in power its because they have been elected. I dont understand how you came to the conclusion that I advocate that the same party stay in power all the time regardless of election results.

The majority of people voted for Brexit at election time. Therefore, the result of that election stands

Guy:Incognito · 21-10-2018 11:25am

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

The majority don’t want Brexit now. The majority of NI and Scotland voted against Brexit.

This is the other thing. Surely all leavers should be oppose to the UK? Surely they should be pushing for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland to be completely independent, get their sovereignty back and not be ruled from afar?

orourkeda1977 · 21-10-2018 11:25am

kneemos wrote: »

I would say they have a pretty good idea.

How do you know that for sure?

eagle eye · 21-10-2018 11:26am

Mint Sauce wrote:

Did you vote in the Abortion, Marriage, et al referendum here after Ireland re ran Lisburn. The UK electorate were lied to and deceived, and it has lead to the whole sh!testorm they are now in. I hope they get a revote, now that they know, or at least has a better idea, on what it really entails.

Brexit won, the majority wanted it. You have to try it first before you can decide that it's a failure. Then you can look at having another referendum to get back in.

joe40 · 21-10-2018 11:27am

Referendums work for social issues like marriage equality, but not for complex political decisions like Brexit where the outcome of a yes vote was never clearly known, by anyone. Add blatant lies to the mix and you have the oppsite to democracy.As soon as the result came in the questions were what does this mean?Remember May's idiotic comment that it will a be a red white and blue brexit. Meaningless words while they worked out what to do.

orourkeda1977 · 21-10-2018 11:27am

Cato the Elder wrote: »

Is it though? Democracies change, as is seen in the fact that Brexit seems to be undoing the will of the people in 1975.

What's the time limit, if there is one?

Furthermore, I consider that Carthage must be destroyed.

They did get more votes didnt they?

The people of the U.K were asked to vote on leaving the European Union. The whole point of the vote was whether to overturn the vote to enter the E.U in the first place.

kneemos · 21-10-2018 11:29am

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

How do you know that for sure?

Because the rules for both are simply and clearly available.

Guy:Incognito · 21-10-2018 11:29am

eagle eye wrote: »

Brexit won, the majority wanted it. You have to try it first before you can decide that it's a failure. Then you can look at having another referendum to get back in.

So even if you see the evidence of the 2 years since the vote, decide, as a nation, it's a bad idea, tough?

Plus, it's not going to be a case of another 2 years down the line just going " you know what, that was a bad idea, we'll just come back in mmmkay"

orourkeda1977 · 21-10-2018 11:29am

Desmond Abundant Starter wrote: »

And by extension of your logic, the one political party should be in government for ever because the people should only express an opinion on any one subject once.

This is why we have general elections.

This is why we have presidential elections.

This is why we have council elections.

Jack Moore · 21-10-2018 11:31am

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

I'll never vote again if this happens.

Whether you agree with a vote or not is irrelevant once the result is known. If a referendum is called the vote should stand. Thats it.

Would anti abortion protesters or people who disagreed with gay marriage get a re-vote. No nor should they.

We did niece twice and Lisbon twice

Guy:Incognito · 21-10-2018 11:31am

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

They did get more votes didnt they?

The people of the U.K were asked to vote on leaving the European Union. The whole point of the vote was whether to overturn the vote to enter the E.U in the first place.

Any chance of answering some of the other posts quoting you, instead of being selective?

If the marriage equality referendum had been defeated , would you be opposing any efforts to bring it in in the future because "we already voted"

What about all the other stuff we now have that didn't go through first time?

Mookie Blaylock · 21-10-2018 11:32am

Jack Moore wrote: »

We did niece twice and Lisbon twice

You've an overly close family!!

21-10-2018 11:32am

Gbear wrote: »

As we all know democracy is predicated on there only being one vote at the start, and then no more ever again.

Hehe. I love this one because the Brits voted to join the EU in the 70s so the 2016 vote is invalid. Brilliant. Anyway, the Brexiters were saying there shouldn't be another vote on EU membership because it's, eh, "undemocratic" to have a second vote?

orourkeda1977 · 21-10-2018 11:33am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If they hadn't passed would you be campaigning for gay people never to be allowed to marry any time the subject came up?

I never said that. I simply used it as an example.

Guy:Incognito · 21-10-2018 11:34am

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

I never said that..

I never said you did. But now I'm asking you.

tonycascarino · 21-10-2018 11:34am

handlemaster wrote: »

Why isnt this story on RTE; this has huge implications for Ireland

700000 actually protesting this is huge

700,000 is quite impressive but not as impressive as the 17.4 million that voted out.

handlemaster · 21-10-2018 11:36am

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

I'll never vote again if this happens.

Whether you agree with a vote or not is irrelevant once the result is known. If a referendum is called the vote should stand. Thats it.

Would anti abortion protesters or people who disagreed with gay marriage get a re-vote. No nor should they.

we already did this in ireland

orourkeda1977 · 21-10-2018 11:37am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Any chance of answering some of the other posts quoting you, instead of being selective?

If the marriage equality referendum had been defeated , would you be opposing any efforts to bring it in in the future because "we already voted"

What about all the other stuff we now have that didn't go through first time?

I never said I'd oppose those efforts. Where did I say that?

My initial point was, if people who were and still are anti abortion or anti gay marriage asked for a referendum to have the yes vote(s) overturned would they get it?

The answer is no.

I'm asking why should Brexit be treated differently.

orourkeda1977 · 21-10-2018 11:39am

handlemaster wrote: »

we already did this in ireland

Yes. I'm clearly saying that this should never have been allowed to happen.

Guy:Incognito · 21-10-2018 11:42am

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

I never said I'd oppose those efforts. Where did I say that?

My initial point was, if people who were and still are anti abortion or anti gay marriage asked for a referendum to have the yes vote(s) overturned would they get it?

The answer is no.

I'm asking why should Brexit be treated differently.

You're talking around the point. If it was defeated, should it stay that way forever?

You're the one treating brexit differently and saying it should be final and that's it.

Why would you not oppose same sex marriage in the future if it was defeated first time if it's so important for votes to be final?

21-10-2018 11:42am

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

I'll never vote again if this happens.

Whether you agree with a vote or not is irrelevant once the result is known. If a referendum is called the vote should stand. Thats it.

Would anti abortion protesters or people who disagreed with gay marriage get a re-vote. No nor should they.

The gay marriage vote was a single issue item. Referendums tend to be ok to deal with these issues, not for Brexit which has multi-sectoral effects. 5 months left and still nobody knows whats really gonna happen over there. David Cameron was a right clown for calling for a vote in the first place.

Sofiztikated · 21-10-2018 11:42am

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

I never said I'd oppose those efforts. Where did I say that?

My initial point was, if people who were and still are anti abortion or anti gay marriage asked for a referendum to have the yes vote(s) overturned would they get it?

The answer is no.

I'm asking why should Brexit be treated differently.

If there were significant numbers, then yes there would be another referendum.

dr.fuzzenstein · 21-10-2018 11:43am

Well, I hope there will be a second referendum.
It really was a choice between leaving things as they are, or the Brits fcuking themselves up the arse with a cactus, a broken bottle and a pint of lemon juice and people voted for the latter.
The first vote was a lot of morons voting leave whilst "rule Britannia" was playing in their heads.
Yes, "but 17 million", the numbers don't change the stupidity.
If 17 million people jumped off a cliff...

orourkeda1977 · 21-10-2018 11:44am

handlemaster wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2018/oct/20/hundreds-of-thousands-attend-peoples-vote-march-in-london-video

Why isnt this story on RTE; this has huge implications for Ireland

700000 actually protesting this is huge

The largest anti-war demonstration in history took place to protest the Iraq war.

Sometime protests dont work

tonycascarino · 21-10-2018 11:44am

700,000 people are not going to overturn the decision of the 17.4 million people who voted out. I'd be fairly certain if the original decision had been in favour of remain that there would be no chance of another referendum.

London protests for second Brexit Vote

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