Tenant refusing to move out

jlm29 · 10-06-2019 4:56pm

Your OP says you gave him verbal notice. Have you given anything in writing since? I’m not saying it changes things much really; but a text or an email now stating you still expect him gone by this Friday, as per your conversation might be no harm so you have some written proof

Claw Hammer · 10-06-2019 5:10pm

There is no need for written proof. The guy was asked to go in the same way as a hotel guest is asked to leave. Once he started talking about solicitors, I would have changed the lock there and then and told him he had 2 hours to get his stuff out of the house before i burnt it.

....... · 10-06-2019 5:28pm

The guy has absolutely no entitlement to stay on.

The OP was generous not only offering him 6 weeks notice but also offering him an alternative.

Del2005 · 10-06-2019 10:21pm

jlm29 wrote: »

Your OP says you gave him verbal notice. Have you given anything in writing since? I’m not saying it changes things much really; but a text or an email now stating you still expect him gone by this Friday, as per your conversation might be no harm so you have some written proof

The other licencee moving out is enough evidence of sufficient notice, not that it's necessary.

TSQ · 10-06-2019 10:50pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

There is no Part 4 tenancy.
The OP- is an owner occupier.
The individual who is refusing to leave- is strictly a licensee- with no right to a tenancy of any type.
Even bringing up a part 4 tenancy- is murkying the water- no tenancy exists- because the OP is the owner of the property- and lives there- and is currently letting two rooms in his/her property.
...."....

The OP is an owner-occupier.
The person who is refusing to leave- is a licensee living in a room in the OPs home.
The licencee is not entitled to any tenancy rights- the RTA does not apply- as it is within the OP's own home.

The RTA does not apply to such a situation (aka the rent-a-room scheme).
Even bringing it up- is wholly misundertanding the situation.

Yes, I am well aware the initial question posed by the op refers to his situation as owner sharing his home with a licensee. As a matter of interest I am asking what would the situation be if the op was a long-standing part 4 tenant who had a licensee he wanted to prevent from becoming a co-tenant in what is after all still his home, even if he doesn’t own the house.

Graham · 10-06-2019 11:13pm

TSQ wrote: »

As a matter of interest I am asking what would the situation be if the op was a long-standing part 4 tenant who had a licensee he wanted to prevent from becoming a co-tenant in what is after all still his home, even if he doesn’t own the house.

During the existence of a Part 4 tenancy any lawful licensee of the tenant/s may request the landlord to be allowed to become a tenant of the tenancy. The landlord may not unreasonably refuse such a request and must give his/her acceptance in writing
Source: LICENSEES IN PRIVATE RENTED ACCOMMODATION

Mod Note

to discuss that particular tangent further please start a new thread.

jlm29 · 10-06-2019 11:14pm

Del2005 wrote: »

The other licencee moving out is enough evidence of sufficient notice, not that it's necessary.

True enough!

fret_wimp2 · 14-06-2019 8:06pm

How did this go OP?

splinter65 · 14-06-2019 8:40pm

the_pen_turner wrote: »

i would still wait until after the original date so that oone can say you kicked hm out with no warning extra

Who would be saying anything about it?

the_pen_turner · 14-06-2019 10:52pm

splinter65 wrote: »

Who would be saying anything about it?

the person staying there would rightly be pissed and entitled to complain if they were told to be out by one date and then came home to all their stuff gone and the locks changed.
i would asume that would be theft and a garda matter.
if you gave them until a certain date then i would leave it until then so that they would be outside of the agreed time frame.
i believe you are leaving yourself open to problems by doing as you say.

now if you were to reissue another 'eviction' notice for an earlier date then that would be ok

whomitconcerns · 15-06-2019 7:12am

All very nice, but you don't have to do any of it. Tell them the date stands and they are out.

wirelessdude01 · 15-06-2019 8:46am

OP, did they leave?

Blacktie. · 15-06-2019 10:34am

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

How did this go OP?

So update. He didn't leave on the appointed day.

So as I told him I was going to do I came home from work and changed the lock and text him to let him know that. I then packed all his stuff and told him I would hand it to him from the door. He then made a threatening remark so I moved all of his stuff outside and put a plastic protective sheet over it and told him I would stay there till he got home to take it and then go inside when he got there. I also contacted the guards and they rang him to let him know they're aware of the situation. That's when he stopped replying.

I believe he tried to go to the guards after he got home first because he just took pictures and drove off but after about 45 minutes he came back and took his stuff with his only last words being that I entered his room without his permission.

fret_wimp2 · 15-06-2019 10:45am

Well done OP, you handled a difficult situation very well.

Mundo7976 · 15-06-2019 10:51am

Glad to see the Gardai rang him to let him know they were aware, far too often they brush these type of things off until it becomes a full blown problem.
Happy you got your space back without too much trouble op

martyoo · 15-06-2019 10:51am

Very well handled OP.

JJJackal · 15-06-2019 10:53am

Blacktie. wrote: »

So update. He didn't leave on the appointed day.

So as I told him I was going to do I came home from work and changed the lock and text him to let him know that. I then packed all his stuff and told him I would hand it to him from the door. He then made a threatening remark so I moved all of his stuff outside and put a plastic protective sheet over it and told him I would stay there till he got home to take it and then go inside when he got there. I also contacted the guards and they rang him to let him know they're aware of the situation. That's when he stopped replying.

I believe he tried to go to the guards after he got home first because he just took pictures and drove off but after about 45 minutes he came back and took his stuff with his only last words being that I entered his room without his permission.

Did you hear from him again?

Blacktie. · 15-06-2019 11:03am

JJJackal wrote: »

Did you hear from him again?

Well it's only been a day but I wouldn't at all be surprised if he tried to claim I didn't return something so I took a bunch of photos as I was packing his stuff and took a video at the start when I entered his room and at the end to show it was empty.

He also tried to claim I had to return the full month of rent he paid when he'd only used up 2 weeks claiming something about the contract. I informed him there never was a contract and his unused rent paid will be returned with the deposit.

I also have security cameras and a self monitored alarm set up should he try anything stupid.

JJJackal · 15-06-2019 11:07am

Blacktie. wrote: »

Well it's only been a day but I wouldn't at all be surprised if he tried to claim I didn't return something so I took a bunch of photos as I was packing his stuff and took a video at the start when I entered his room and at the end to show it was empty.

He also tried to claim I had to return the full month of rent he paid when he'd only used up 2 weeks claiming something about the contract. I informed him there never was a contract and his unused rent paid will be returned with the deposit.

I also have security cameras and a self monitored alarm set up should he try anything stupid.

He sounds difficult

Quandary · 15-06-2019 11:13am

Blacktie. wrote: »

Well it's only been a day but I wouldn't at all be surprised if he tried to claim I didn't return something so I took a bunch of photos as I was packing his stuff and took a video at the start when I entered his room and at the end to show it was empty.

He also tried to claim I had to return the full month of rent he paid when he'd only used up 2 weeks claiming something about the contract. I informed him there never was a contract and his unused rent paid will be returned with the deposit.

I also have security cameras and a self monitored alarm set up should he try anything stupid.

JJJackal wrote: »

He sounds difficult

Just be thankful he was just a licensee and although it might have been unpleasant, it was easy to remove him from your property.

If this guy had a tenancy you could well be looking at over a year to get rid, along with being out of pocket substantial money if he stopped paying rent, as many of these difficult clients tend to do.

Delihhted to hear it went smoothly so far.

Best of luck.

15-06-2019 11:26am

Well done op.

This is how LLs should be allowed to deal with non-paying or overholding tenants too and not this long drawn out crap they have to go through.

Blacktie. · 15-06-2019 11:54am

Quandary wrote: »

Just be thankful he was just a licensee and although it might have been unpleasant, it was easy to remove him from your property.

If this guy had a tenancy you could well be looking at over a year to get rid, along with being out of pocket substantial money if he stopped paying rent, as many of these difficult clients tend to do.

Delihhted to hear it went smoothly so far.

Best of luck.

I completely agree. I would never become a landlord for this reason and this just solidifies my position on it now. I've heard too many horror stories out there and having experienced this I wouldn't put myself in that compromised position.

Duvetdays · 15-06-2019 12:27pm

Delighted he’s gone and Garda actually gave him a call to warn him. But change your alarm code and WiFi password to be on the safe side.

Blacktie. · 15-06-2019 1:55pm

Duvetdays wrote: »

Delighted he’s gone and Garda actually gave him a call to warn him. But change your alarm code and WiFi password to be on the safe side.

Yeah already done.

Bit of a pain setting up all my devices again but def not worth leaving as some possible access.

Jupiter Mulligan · 15-06-2019 3:09pm

Mohammed Red Jazz wrote: »

Well done op.

This is how LLs should be allowed to deal with non-paying or overholding tenants too and not this long drawn out crap they have to go through.

Of course it is.

Yet incredibly, there isn't a single political party in Ireland today which has the integrity, the moral strength or the cojones to defend property owners' rights in such a situation. They're all so completely terrified of the media hysteria about homelessness that they are quite happy to trample property owners' rights into the mud.

Sonny noggs · 15-06-2019 3:25pm

Glad it worked out OP. Pray for the next property owner who ends up stuck with this guy.

Marcusm · 15-06-2019 4:26pm

Mohammed Red Jazz wrote: »

Well done op.

This is how LLs should be allowed to deal with non-paying or overholding tenants too and not this long drawn out crap they have to go through.

And banks/lenders should be able to do the same with defaulting home/business owners? At what point do you want due process to start? Streamlining the process for landlords is required but not a simple ejectment. A lodger rightly has fewer rights than a tenant of a whole property.

Jupiter Mulligan · 15-06-2019 4:42pm

Marcusm wrote: »

And banks/lenders should be able to do the same with defaulting home/business owners?

Naturally - although a bit of leeway would be allowed in the case of a family home. What could possibly be wrong with that?

(In the same way that repo men are allowed to reclaim leased cars when the agreement isn't being honoured.)

It's a complete no-brainer, you borrow money; you agree to repay it - fail to honour your agreement and there are predictable consequences.

What viable alternative system of commercial lending are you proposing?

GGTrek · 15-06-2019 7:51pm

Marcusm wrote: »

And banks/lenders should be able to do the same with defaulting home/business owners? At what point do you want due process to start? Streamlining the process for landlords is required but not a simple ejectment. A lodger rightly has fewer rights than a tenant of a whole property.

Of course banks should be able to eject non paying mortgagors within a reasonable timeframe (3 to 6 months).

You know very well that before RTA 2004 peaceful re-entry for non paying tenants was the norm after a 28 days notice and rent arrears and overholding problems were minimal like it is now for commercial leases in Ireland. Ejectment timeframe could be more than the old 28 days, but definitely not the joke it is now in Ireland where non paying tenants and non paying mortgage holders are literally taking the proverbial.

Partly it is do-gooder thinking like yours that has screwed the rental market in Ireland and mortgage rates are so high (combined with policies screwing supply).

GGTrek · 15-06-2019 7:53pm

Blacktie. wrote: »

So update. He didn't leave on the appointed day.

So as I told him I was going to do I came home from work and changed the lock and text him to let him know that. I then packed all his stuff and told him I would hand it to him from the door. He then made a threatening remark so I moved all of his stuff outside and put a plastic protective sheet over it and told him I would stay there till he got home to take it and then go inside when he got there. I also contacted the guards and they rang him to let him know they're aware of the situation. That's when he stopped replying.

I believe he tried to go to the guards after he got home first because he just took pictures and drove off but after about 45 minutes he came back and took his stuff with his only last words being that I entered his room without his permission.

You definitely got some good advice

Blacktie. · 15-06-2019 8:55pm

GGTrek wrote: »

You definitely got some good advice

It's handy knowing people in the know about this stuff!

paska · 15-06-2019 9:27pm

A good result.

Tenant refusing to move out

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