Tenant refusing to move out

Blacktie.

So I have two tenants in my house who's been here almost 2 years. Now about 5 weeks ago I let them both know verbally they need to move out by this coming Friday as I needed the rooms. One was fine with it and the other didn't take it very well.

Now it's getting close to the time he says he needs more time so I was going to be accommodating and have him move to another room till he found somewhere but now he's saying he talked to a lawyer and he needs written 6 weeks notice on the contract with the names of the people who are moving in. Where do I stand here?

I say tenants above but I believe they are licencees as I live in the property as well.

fatbhoy

If he's a licencee, then I'm pretty sure he's classed as an invited guest in your house, and as such, you can get him to leave anytime, without notice, verbally or physically.

Graham

What 'contract' are you referring to?

If you live in the property then he has zero rights and is talking nonsense about 6 weeks and I'd be telling him as much, you would be within your rights to give him 24 hrs notice so you were very reasonable with the 5 weeks. Tell him to move out immediately or the locks will be changed and his stuff all left outside from him to collect.

Graham

Mod Note

Leaving open for general discussion.

If you haven't already, please familiarise yourself with the charter rules against giving/seeking legal advice.

brendanwalsh

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wirelessdude01

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Mortelaro

He can't be a licensee if you own the house? Only if you are a tenant organising who the other tenants are?

https://www.threshold.ie/advice/seeking-private-rented-accommodation/sharing-with-your-landlordrenting-from-a-tenant/

You need legal advice surely

wirelessdude01

Mortelaro wrote:

He can't be a licensee if you own the house? Only if you are a tenant organising who the other tenants are?

Did you even read the link you provided? Living with a landlord is a licencee situation.

splinter65

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Timberrrrrrrr

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splinter65

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Does op own the house or is he renting and subbing the rooms?

If op owns the house then yeah give the chancer 24 hours to get out.

If op is renting and subbing the rooms would it not be different?

Just throwing this in there, maybe op could clarify?

Even if he’s a tenant and is subletting the licensee conditions still apply.

Timberrrrrrrr

splinter65 wrote: »

Even if he’s a tenant and is subletting the licensee conditions still apply.

Cheers, i wasn't sure if the rules surrounding that.

Graham

From the RTB:

What is a Licensee?
A licensee is a person who occupies accommodation under license. Licensees can arise in all sorts of accommodation but most commonly in the following four areas;

• persons staying in hotels, guesthouses, hostels, etc.,
• persons sharing a house/apartment with its owner e.g. under the ‘rent a room’ scheme or ‘in digs’,
• persons occupying accommodation in which the owner is not resident under a formal license arrangement with the owner where the occupants are not entitled to its exclusive use and the owner has continuing access to the accommodation and/or can move around or change the occupants, and
• persons staying in rented accommodation at the invitation of the tenant.

The provisions of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 do not apply to the first three categories. Although most of the Act does not apply to the fourth category also, some provisions are relevant where the licensee is residing with the tenant and this leaflet is aimed at persons in that category.

Source: https://www.rtb.ie/media-research/publications/licensees-in-private-rented-accommodation


OP if you have given this person a contract, you would be well advised to seek professional legal advice.

Blacktie.

Graham wrote: »

What 'contract' are you referring to?

Apologies probably bad phrasing on my part. There was no contract agreement. But he's requesting (or demanding really) for me to write out a notice contract that says he has to move out in 6 weeks with the names of the people who are moving in. He mentioned family members here so I believe he's thinking of a tenancy situation possibly.

If you live in the property then he has zero rights and is talking nonsense about 6 weeks and I'd be telling him as much, you would be within your rights to give him 24 hrs notice so you were very reasonable with the 5 weeks. Tell him to move out immediately or the locks will be changed and his stuff all left outside from him to collect.

This is what I thought as well. Just wanted confirmation really. I am the owner and live in the property as well.

Graham

Citizens information have a publication that may be useful for your licensee:

If you are renting a room in your landlord's home, your situation is very different. You do not have a standard tenancy agreement. Instead, you have a licensee agreement with your landlord. This means that you are in the property by the landlord’s consent or invitation. As a result, you cannot avail of the type of protection that tenants are entitled to under the residential tenancies legislation.

The position is the same if you are living with a spouse, child or parent of a landlord and you do not have a tenancy agreement or written lease.

As you do not have the same rights as someone whose tenancy comes under the landlord and tenant legislation, you should be aware of the following:

• Your landlord is not obliged to provide you with a rent book or a statement of rent paid
• There is no legal requirement for your accommodation to meet minimum physical standards (unless you are a HAP tenant and then these minimum standards must be met)
• Any notice you may get of the termination of the tenancy is at your landlord's discretion (although the landlord is obliged to give reasonable notice, the specifics of this notice may vary)
• Your landlord is not obliged to register the tenancy with the Residential Tenancies Board (RTB)
• You cannot use the RTB's dispute resolution service if a disagreement arises between you and your landlord
• You are not protected by the Equal Status Acts 2000-2015, which prohibit discrimination on grounds of gender, civil status, family status, age, race, religion, disability, sexual orientation and membership of the Traveller community – and now also on the ‘housing assistance’ ground

Source: Sharing accommodation with your landlord

the_syco

Blacktie. wrote: »

I am the owner and live in the property as well.

Blacktie. wrote: »

So I have two tenants in my house who's been here almost 2 years.

No, you have two licensees living in your house.

Give him a weeks notice. If he becomes unruly, give him 24 hours notice.

the_syco

the_syco wrote: »

No, you have two licensees living in your house.

Give him a weeks notice. If he becomes unruly, give him 24 hours notice.

He already gave him 5 weeks notice, I would be staying he as to leave instantly or return to find his key doesn’t work.

wirelessdude01

OP, how long ago did he pull the solicitor stunt?

Sonny noggs

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

OP, how long ago did he pull the solicitor stunt?

Sounds like he waited a month.

Sonny noggs

Good luck OP.

Check with a solicitor to confirm you can just change the locks when Friday comes and goes, given that we have established that this is a licensee situation and not a tenancy.

Agree a time and location where he can collect any possessions he has failed to remove.

Blacktie.

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

OP, how long ago did he pull the solicitor stunt?

Just today.

I let him know over a month ago. He had 6 weeks notice given over 5 weeks ago and he's due out the end of the week.

wirelessdude01

Blacktie. wrote:

Just today.

Repeat to him that he is out on Friday as requested 5 weeks ago. Don't give him any leeway at all. Have a locksmith ready to call first thing on Saturday morning to change the locks.

Blacktie.

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Repeat to him that he is out on Friday as requested 5 weeks ago. Don't give him any leeway at all. Have a locksmith ready to call first thing on Saturday morning to change the locks.

I'll be doing this Friday afternoon. That's the day I told him he had to be out by.

mr_cochise

Sonny noggs wrote:

Check with a solicitor to confirm you can just change the locks when Friday comes and goes, given that we have established that this is a licensee situation and not a tenancy.

No need to check with any solicitor.
He is a licencee. He has been given more than enough notice.

splinter65

Sonny noggs wrote: »

Good luck OP.

Check with a solicitor to confirm you can just change the locks when Friday comes and goes, given that we have established that this is a licensee situation and not a tenancy.

Agree a time and location where he can collect any possessions he has failed to remove.

No need to pay a solicitor to tell him information that is freely and clearly available on Threshold and Citizensinformation.ie.
As long as he stores the licensee’s stuff in a dry place and can prove that he informed him when and where he can collect the stuff (emails or texts will do) then he is good to tell him to go tomorrow evening.
This person is a paying guest and is now trying to manipulate the situation so better to get him/her out before it gets unpleasant.

the_pen_turner

splinter65 wrote: »

No need to pay a solicitor to tell him information that is freely and clearly available on Threshold and Citizensinformation.ie.
As long as he stores the licensee’s stuff in a dry place and can prove that he informed him when and where he can collect the stuff (emails or texts will do) then he is good to tell him to go tomorrow evening.
This person is a paying guest and is now trying to manipulate the situation so better to get him/her out before it gets unpleasant.

i would still wait until after the original date so that oone can say you kicked hm out with no warning extra

Heres Johnny

The lawyer thing is lies anyway he never spoke to anyone. Are you on good terms with him like are you friends or is it strictly a financial arrangement?

Might make for an uncomfortable living arrangement, I know I'd hate that in my own home.

Sonny noggs

splinter65 wrote: »

No need to pay a solicitor to tell him information that is freely and clearly available on Threshold and Citizensinformation.ie.
As long as he stores the licensee’s stuff in a dry place and can prove that he informed him when and where he can collect the stuff (emails or texts will do) then he is good to tell him to go tomorrow evening.
This person is a paying guest and is now trying to manipulate the situation so better to get him/her out before it gets unpleasant.

Yeah, just making sure he has his ass covered.

Blacktie.

Heres Johnny wrote: »

The lawyer thing is lies anyway he never spoke to anyone. Are you on good terms with him like are you friends or is it strictly a financial arrangement?

Might make for an uncomfortable living arrangement, I know I'd hate that in my own home.

Strictly financial. Any good terms we had are gone after this today. Yes I expect it will be an awkward week. I plan on being home as much as possible so he can't mess with my stuff while I'm away. So work and hanging around at home for me.

TSQ

Graham wrote: »

From the RTB:

What is a Licensee?
A licensee is a person who occupies accommodation under license. Licensees can arise in all sorts of accommodation but most commonly in the following four areas;

• persons staying in hotels, guesthouses, hostels, etc.,
• persons sharing a house/apartment with its owner e.g. under the ‘rent a room’ scheme or ‘in digs’,
• persons occupying accommodation in which the owner is not resident under a formal license arrangement with the owner where the occupants are not entitled to its exclusive use and the owner has continuing access to the accommodation and/or can move around or change the occupants, and
• persons staying in rented accommodation at the invitation of the tenant.

The provisions of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 do not apply to the first three categories. Although most of the Act does not apply to the fourth category also, some provisions are relevant where the licensee is residing with the tenant and this leaflet is aimed at persons in that category.

Source: https://www.rtb.ie/media-research/publications/licensees-in-private-rented-accommodation

Have read info in the link above and note that During the existence of a Part 4 tenancy any lawful licensee of the tenant/s may request the landlord to be allowed to become a tenant of the tenancy. The landlord may not unreasonably refuse such a request and must give his/her acceptance in writing.

Now, what if I am the part 4 tenant sharing with a licensee I have brought in to the house, but want to be in control of who lives with me?. Can I demand that my licensees are refused a tenancy, so as to keep the same rights as a live-in landlord who can get rid of a flatmate for any or no reason?