Waterford University discussion

fuzzy dunlop · 13-09-2011 8:00pm

merlante wrote: »

Trolley, trolley, troll, troll. Didn't you get booted off here before for this sort of thing?

No that was Invincible Irish:D

fuzzy dunlop · 13-09-2011 8:15pm

Master and commander wrote: »

Most other places laid out like that are the lower order, third rate kind of places. IT carlow and Tipperary Institute spring to mind.
At the end of the day giving uni status to WIT amounts to nothing more than renaming the current institute. Same buildings, same courses, same lecturers, same everything (except maybe a different management/beauracracy structure) - just a different sign over the door. Whats more, the whole rebranding excercise will cost €€€€'s, which is not there.
Giving uni status will also devalue the prestige associated with the other universities - i can't imagine the graduates of the NUI being to happy with it. In any case, unless it becomes part of NUI, i.e the current trend is for a technical university, then its just pointless windowdressing, equivalent to when they renamed the RTC's as IT's. It didn't make a sh!t of a difference then and it wont do so now either. I should also add that unless its part of NUI its graduates will not be eligible to be electors for seanad elections so in effect it will not be a real university, just a sort of wannabe.
And to be doing it now is just pure reactionary stuff - they're not doing it because of WITs merits and quality, but just because Talktalk closed. They'd be doing it just for the sake of it to get votes for the lads next time round, which is silly.

Also on alighter note, can you imagine the slagging we'd get from the NUI crowd, calling us "NUI rejects" and failed Uni students and so forth.

And by the way, I am a WIT student,

Get real if even if any of this nonsense were true any inaginary loss of prestige would be soon gotten over.

dayshah · 13-09-2011 8:36pm

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Not really outstanding points are they though in practice? it's quite clear that these platitudes mean very little in reality to the impartial observer. The NSS from which the gateway designation comes from has been thoroughly discredited, there are several IT's who can claim to be "high quality" and the regional capital claim means nothing.

Both DIT and WIT are a league ahead of the other ITs (though I would rank DIT ahead of WIT).

The NSS might be discredited, but Waterford's role as the main city of the region is a fact, not a designation. By virtue of this it has the transport links and so on that make Waterford a more viable location for a south eastern university than somewhere like Carlow, Kilkenny or Enniscorthy.

comeraghs · 13-09-2011 8:55pm

can that Cork eejit with the Invincible chip on his shoulder be banned

ec18 · 13-09-2011 9:30pm

seems to be 2008 again :O :P

Sully · 13-09-2011 9:57pm

Mod Note

I don't see anything wrong with "Wa'furd" and I fail to see how its derogatory in the slightest tbh.

Calling someone a troll is, however, personal abuse and tbh it goes against the spirit of a discussion forum. If a poster is a troll, in your eyes, report the posts and leave the mods deal with it.

Please be aware that this is a discussion forum. People will have opposite views to you. Some agree with University, some think its daft and others have no view on it at all. Just because we are in the Waterford forum - it does not mean that all views MUST be pro-uni and anything else is trolling. If something is trolling, do let us know and if we agree we will sort it because there can be people who will come along and purposely wind people up. Just report the post and explain.

Thanks.

Sully · 13-09-2011 10:00pm

comeraghs wrote: »

can that Cork eejit with the Invincible chip on his shoulder be banned

Banned.

Also, as I said, this is a discussion forum. Please refrain from posting other peoples essays on the University issue to make your point. Make it yourself. Thanks.

Psychedelic · 13-09-2011 10:56pm

Sully wrote: »

I don't see anything wrong with "Wa'furd" and I fail to see how its derogatory in the slightest tbh.

He is clearly using "Wa'furd" to try get a rise, why else would he say that? Looks like he got what he wanted. I think it could even have been you who banned this invincible---- guy for trolling before! Probably several times at this stage over the years as he always pops in here any time there's a university thread going with the same arguments against a university here along with the sly digs at Waterford. Don't know why people don't just ignore him at this stage.

Sully · 13-09-2011 11:00pm

Psychedelic wrote: »

He is clearly using "Wa'furd" to try get a rise, why else would he say that? Looks like he got what he wanted. I think it could even have been you who banned this invincible---- guy for trolling before! Probably several times at this stage over the years as he always pops in here any time there's a university thread going with the same arguments against a university here along with the sly digs at Waterford. Don't know why people don't just ignore him at this stage.

So report the posts you have a problem with. We (the mods) don't have a huge amount of time to read over the whole thread and watch every poster. We need people to report posts, and we will get to it.

Trolling or not - you wont get away with getting personal and derailing the thread yourself.

I'd nearly suggest some people grow a thicker skin and don't react to such a simply abbreviation.

invinciblePRSTV · 13-09-2011 11:09pm

Psychedelic wrote: »

He is clearly using "Wa'furd" to try get a rise, why else would he say that?

You'd want to be fairly precious if you get a rise out of me using shorthand like Wa'furd.

Psychedelic wrote: »

Looks like he got what he wanted. I think it could even have been you who banned this invincible---- guy for trolling before! Probably several times at this stage over the years as he always pops in here any time there's a university thread going with the same arguments against a university here along with the sly digs at Waterford. Don't know why people don't just ignore him at this stage.

Whilst I've certainly been no angel in previous threads, neither have many of my accusers who've received as many infractions as I have in the same threads.

Unlike some of my accusers, I've only posted in a polite and by the book manner on this thread. Even then some folk appear to literally get their knickers in a twist once i challenge the assumption that the case for a Waterford University isn't as conclusive as they'd like to think it is .

invinciblePRSTV · 13-09-2011 11:16pm

dayshah wrote: »

Both DIT and WIT are a league ahead of the other ITs (though I would rank DIT ahead of WIT).

The NSS might be discredited, but Waterford's role as the main city of the region is a fact, not a designation. By virtue of this it has the transport links and so on that make Waterford a more viable location for a south eastern university than somewhere like Carlow, Kilkenny or Enniscorthy.

You're mixing up your points and answering a question - what's the most suitable place in the SE for a university - which I did not ask.

I questioned Merlante's assumption that Wa'furd is entitled to be "ahead" of other towns and cities. You then came along in the first post of yours which i replied to and listed points as to why you think Wa'furd should be ahead of other places, which i rebutted. Now in this post you change tack, talk about where in the SE would be best to locate a University and acknowledge the points you made were baseless!.

Sully · 13-09-2011 11:23pm

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

You're mixing up your points and answering a question - what's the most suitable place in the SE for a university - which I did not ask.

I questioned Merlante's assumption that Wa'furd is entitled to be "ahead" of other towns and cities. You then came along in the first post of yours which i replied to and listed points as to why you think Wa'furd should be ahead of other places, which i rebutted. Now in this post you change tack, talk about where in the SE would be best to locate a University and acknowledge the points you made were baseless!.

Yeah, stop using "Wa'furd" please. I think your doing it on purpose and even if not, your causing a headache to some folk here and to make everyones life a LITTLE easier - just use "Waterford" or even "Deise".

The odd time was fine, but doing it regularly seems OTT.

Thanks.

invinciblePRSTV · 13-09-2011 11:31pm

Sully wrote: »

Yeah, stop using "Wa'furd" please. I think your doing it on purpose and even if not, your causing a headache to some folk here and to make everyones life a LITTLE easier - just use "Waterford" or even "Deise".

The odd time was fine, but doing it regularly seems OTT.

Thanks.

'Fraid not. Like you say, people need to grow a thicker skin.

I mean c'mon, getting riled and upset by someone using shorthand? it's quite preposterous in fairness.

Sully · 13-09-2011 11:38pm

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

'Fraid not. Like you say, people need to grow a thicker skin.

I mean c'mon, getting riled and upset by someone using shorthand? it's quite preposterous in fairness.

Lets put it like this. I think your borderline trolling, and I was prepared to let it slide as I thought it wasn't going to become a main thing and you probably meant no harm. But, clearly it is and I think the above post proves it.

Either you use the proper name, or you don't post at all. If you cant bring yourself to using the proper name and want to post - just don't refer to it at all. We should understand you clearly.

Your choice.

(PS Short hand is banned in the forum charter. I guess you haven't read it so I suggest you do)

invinciblePRSTV · 13-09-2011 11:44pm

Sully wrote: »

Lets put it like this. I think your borderline trolling, and I was prepared to let it slide as I thought it wasn't going to become a main thing and you probably meant no harm. But, clearly it is and I think the above post proves it.

Borderline trolling? are you serious? the only person on this thread who hasn't engaged in trying to rise people over the past few pages has been myself.

Sully wrote: »

Either you use the proper name, or you don't post at all. If you cant bring yourself to using the proper name and want to post - just don't refer to it at all. We should understand you clearly.

Your choice.

You just said you had no issue with the term Wa'furd, when I've posted on this forum or elsewhere before there was no issue when I've typed 'Wa'furd', why the sudden change in tune?

Sully · 13-09-2011 11:47pm

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Borderline trolling? are you serious? the only person on this thread who hasn't engaged in trying to rise people over the past few pages has been myself.

You just said you had no issue with the term Wa'furd, when I've posted on this forum or elsewhere before there was no issue when I've typed 'Wa'furd', why the sudden change in tune?

Iv already explained that point and from this point onwards, please send me a PM if you wish to complain further.

The odd use is fine, I am not totally banning it. Using it in every second post is getting annoying. Shorthand is banned for a reason, and its let slide when its random and the odd time not when its frequent. I assumed it wasn't frequent, but I was wrong.

merlante · 13-09-2011 11:56pm

The plot thickens... possibly.

WLR: South East TDs push for university in region

Two South East Fine Gael TDs are organising a meeting of Oireachtas members to discuss the unemployment crisis in the region. Waterford's John Deasy and Carlow-Kilkenny Deputy John Paul Phelan are holding a meeting in Leinster House tomorrow evening for all of the party's TDs and Senators.John Deasy says the meeting will focus on the need for a dedicated university in the South East.However, during his visit to Waterford City yesterday, Minister Richard Bruton said he doesn't see a university in Waterford being the solution to everything.

I see that Deasy, having burnt most of his bridges in FG, is making himself useful. Fair play if something comes of it. John Paul Phelan is a WIT alumnus and one of the more pro-university TDs in Kilkenny.

fuzzy dunlop · 13-09-2011 11:59pm

merlante wrote: »

The plot thickens... possibly.

WLR: South East TDs push for university in region

I see that Deasy, having burnt most of his bridges in FG, is making himself useful. Fair play if something comes of it. John Paul Phelan is a WIT alumnus and one of the more pro-university TDs in Kilkenny.

Good News.Hopefully they can build some regional cohesion on the issue and force the governments hand.

jive · 14-09-2011 12:00am

Why does Waterford need a University? (I don't get it, serious)

Sully · 14-09-2011 12:02am

Excellent work from the two boys. Some movement is better than no movement and I am delighted to see John making a positive move on this.

Richard has a point though, it really isn't our overall solution.

dayshah · 14-09-2011 7:59am

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

You're mixing up your points and answering a question - what's the most suitable place in the SE for a university - which I did not ask.

I questioned Merlante's assumption that Wa'furd is entitled to be "ahead" of other towns and cities. You then came along in the first post of yours which i replied to and listed points as to why you think Wa'furd should be ahead of other places, which i rebutted. Now in this post you change tack, talk about where in the SE would be best to locate a University and acknowledge the points you made were baseless!.

Waterford is entitled to be ahead of other because of its status as a regional capital. It serves its region, while Kilkenny, Carlow etc serve a far smaller hinterland.

I'm not so pushed about a university, so long as WIT and DIT being a league above the other ITs is recognised. However, if we got a university we would not be 'ahead' of the other cities. Every other city has a university plus an IT (unless you count Kilkenny as a city), and Limerick has a university, IT, and a teacher training college. In contrast Waterford only has an IT. That's placing us behind the other cities.

Bards · 14-09-2011 8:11am

Sully wrote: »

Excellent work from the two boys. Some movement is better than no movement and I am delighted to see John making a positive move on this.

Richard has a point though, it really isn't our overall solution.

I would agree that it is not our overall solution, but it is another cog in the wheel to get things moving and allow the S.E to play catch up and level the playing field a bit.

Isn't that all we want? I.E the tools to enable the region to compete both nationally and internationally, in order to make Ireland Inc. a stronger entity and not be held back by a populous poor region that has natural advantages such as climate/location etc.?

Junior · 14-09-2011 8:17am

merlante wrote: »

The plot thickens... possibly.

WLR: South East TDs push for university in region

I see that Deasy, having burnt most of his bridges in FG, is making himself useful. Fair play if something comes of it. John Paul Phelan is a WIT alumnus and one of the more pro-university TDs in Kilkenny.

More like the Thicks Plotten, I wouldn't trust Phelan as far as I could throw the bastard.

Green Hornet · 14-09-2011 8:37am

I'm went to WIT and regularly visit as a result of some collaborations with industry and it is a good college. However, there have been a few posts stating that it's a superior college to Carlow and most of the other IT's. What's that based upon? Just seems a bit disrespectful to graduates of Carlow etc.

fricatus · 14-09-2011 8:49am

jive wrote: »

Why does Waterford need a University? (I don't get it, serious)

I'll just quickly sum up the argument for you:

About 40 years ago, Waterford city was bigger and more prosperous than Galway, because we had a strong manufacturing base. The government provided Galway with an IT to go along with its university, but only provided Waterford with an IT. This was seen as unfair as the places were both the same size.

Fast forward 40 years and manufacturing is dead in Ireland and Waterford is suffering rapid de-industrialisation and one of the highest unemployment levels in the country. Galway has grown rapidly and is still not doing too badly on the unemployment front, considering the recession; Waterford has grown more slowly and is now much less prosperous.

Lots of people scratch their heads and wonder why somewhere in the poor, neglected peripheral West is doing better on pretty much every measure of prosperity. There's little to distinguish the two cities really, from a foreign investor's point of view: both are mid-size towns with small airports offering turboprop service to London, and about 2 hours from Dublin by motorway. If anything, Waterford's port and proximity to the UK and mainland Europe ought to be an advantage.

Quality of life, etc. is further down the list, and is in any event comparable. So the only thing that remains as a factor is that Galway has far better educational facilities and a supply of educated graduates that Waterford can currently only dream of.

That's why (in the view of many) Waterford needs a university.

There are other arguments, such as how the Dublin area (with a third of the population) has four universities, and the rest of the country has three, but the biggest argument is that a university is an essential facility for a city like Waterford to grow and develop relative to similar places, and for its citizens to have the same opportunities that are offered elsewhere.

merlante · 14-09-2011 10:24am

jive wrote: »

Why does Waterford need a University? (I don't get it, serious)

Should really have a wiki or something for this question.

Firstly, the Irish university remit/mandate is broader and more ambitious than that of an institute of technology, so universities should offer more courses, potentially to a higher standard. Secondly, universities are considered the top tier in education in Ireland and so attract better students on average and are also politically secure. Thirdly, there is very strong evidence to suggest the existence of a university in a region is a springboard for employment and foreign direct investment (while the lack of a university can be disastrous). Fourthly, more research funding is available to universities. Fifthly, since the south east does not have a university, while Dublin, the East, the West, the Mid-West and the South, a significant brain drain has resulted from the south east to other regions. Sixthly, statistically, Waterford and the south east have lower levels of educational attainment and higher unemployment, both of which have been linked to the lack of a university. There are many knock-on effects from these factors as well.

jive · 14-09-2011 3:26pm

fricatus wrote: »

That's why (in the view of many) Waterford needs a university.

There are other arguments, such as how the Dublin area (with a third of the population) has four universities, and the rest of the country has three, but the biggest argument is that a university is an essential facility for a city like Waterford to grow and develop relative to similar places, and for its citizens to have the same opportunities that are offered elsewhere.

Thanks for the reply. I'm skeptical that the differences can solely be attributed to the lack of University in Waterford. Perhaps largely, but even then in my mind that seems like a stretch. I think the fact that we are a 90 minute drive away from UCC and about a 110 minute drive away from the likes of UCD, Trinity and DIT makes it hard for me to believe that we actually need a university. It's not like we don't have graduates from these Universities sitting at home on there arse right now with no work. Maybe companies do prefer to set up near a university, like I said I don't know so I'll take your word for it. I'm guessing that changing to uni status costs money? Are the quality of lecturers good enough for uni status? I almost don't want to know anything about this because there are so many aspects that need to be right for a properly functioning university. For a small country I think we have enough universities already.

merlante wrote: »

Should really have a wiki or something for this question.

Thanks for the reply, noted!

For the record I'd welcome a university here but I'm not sure how viable it is right now. I'd have to imagine the positives far outweigh the negatives.

Trotter · 14-09-2011 3:29pm

jive wrote: »

For a small country I think we have enough universities already.

Thats probably correct.. but their location at the moment denies a full region of the country equal access to university level education. Because of their poor dispersal, we need our own one in the South East region.

Bards · 14-09-2011 3:38pm

for a small City Dublin has too many universities

mike65 · 14-09-2011 3:45pm

It could get one more!

On Mondays Morning Ireland someone from Labour was talking about a Tech based university for Waterford and almost in passing mentioned how there might be similar for Cork and Dublin! And so the whole cycle of "something for everyone in the audience" continues. You'd have hoped Labour and FG might have learned something from the RTC to IT inflation debacle which only happened when Cork RTC screamed like a stuck pig.

Waterford University discussion

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