Mum died, Dad non composmentis

StereoSound · 13-08-2020 7:53pm #1

My mother died unexpectedly in the past few weeks. She was the carer of my Dad who is not in a right frame of mind for maybe 10 years now. There is a lot of things he cannot do such as being left alone in the house at any time. He has issues making proper decisions and he has sort of a childish understanding of things. Saying that, he can walk down to the shop alone and buy a litre of milk or other simple things like that but most other things is a no.

I have two sisters, and because Mum died someone has to take care of Dad on a full time basis. I have temporarily moved in with Dad into the family home but my sisters seem to think I should be the one to be his carer and quit my job in the process to do it.... This is not something I want to do, I don't want to quit my job and live with my sick father until the day he dies. That is not really fair on me and my sisters insist they cannot do this because of relationships and work. I have my own life made outside this house to. My mother never wanted to put my Dad into a nursing home and I can understand that, they would just drug the man up until the day he passes. She worked in nursing homes and hospitals all her life and she would tell us exactly what goes on with mentally ill patients.

I told my sisters that I am not going to live with Dad in this way because it suits "their lifestyles" .... I have my own life and as much as I care for my Dad I cannot sit here in the house with him day and night doing nothing but cooking and cleaning for him and watching him the whole time. I was with my mother the moment she died in her bedroom as we waited for the ambulance to arrive, she had some sort of heart complications that led to her death or so we believe until we get proper toxicology results ..... My Dad is 80 and who knows when he could go and the notion of him also dying in my presence like Mum did scares the life out of me

. I am depressed enough over my Mum right now and I am being nailed against the wall here to become Dads carer. I have my own house to pay for and I will lose that if I quit my job...

I did suggest to my sisters to get a live in carer into the house for Dad. We don't know how this would actually work or how much it would cost. My mother left a very healthy sum of money to my Dad and a live in carer would probably be doable. Plus my mothers life insurance payout would also help cover costs for my Dads care.

Has anyone got any advice on this ?

Meeoow · 13-08-2020 7:58pm

Sorry for your loss. Your sisters are selfish and deluded to expect you to have to give up your life to look after your dad, and they carry on as normal.
Definately look into getting care for your dad. Could you rotate time with your sisters so each of you spend a night a week or something?

StereoSound · 13-08-2020 8:00pm

Meeoow wrote: »

Sorry for your loss. Your sisters are selfish and deluded to expect you to have to give up your life to look after your dad, and they carry on as normal.
Definately look into getting care for your dad. Could you rotate time with your sisters so each of you spend a night a week or something?

We have been rotating every now and then but they want a more permanent solution. For the most part since Mum died I have been in the house day and night. She passed only last month.

LilacNails · 13-08-2020 8:11pm

So sorry for your loss, and the situation you find yourself in, that's not easy.

Your sisters are being so self centered. Stand your ground and do what is healthy and right for you.

You say there's money there left by your mom, that should cover for his care, use it for that. It's clearly what she would have wanted.

Perhaps ye might come to some agreement to a rotation 1 of ye staying 1 or 2 nights every so often, for your dad.

Take care of you first, you don't want to have a burnout. I imagine you might be a bit vulnerable ATM.

Use the money for your father, that's what it is there for.

Dial Hard · 13-08-2020 8:15pm

Let me guess, you're single and child free whereas they're married with children and they therefore think this means you're the automatic choice to become your dad's full-time carer because in their minds, you've nothing else to be doing?

Big, fat NOPE to that OP. Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.

Your dad's care needs to be an equal opportunities gig. I'd do a bit of research about the options available - Home Instead, a live-in carer, etc. - and present them to your sisters without even discussing your moving in full-time. It's not an option therefore don't even entertain it being brought to the table. If it gets brought up just shut the conversation down with "That's not up for discussion".

Best of luck and I'm sorry for your loss.

StereoSound · 13-08-2020 8:24pm

Dial Hard wrote: »

Let me guess, you're single and child free whereas they're married with children and they therefore think this means you're the automatic choice to become your dad's full-time carer because in their minds, you've nothing else to be doing?

Big, fat NOPE to that OP. Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.

Your dad's care needs to be an equal opportunities gig. I'd do a bit of research about the options available - Home Instead, a live-in carer, etc. - and present them to your sisters without even discussing your moving in full-time. It's not an option therefore don't even entertain it being brought to the table. If it gets brought up just shut the conversation down with "That's not up for discussion".

Best of luck and I'm sorry for your loss.

One of them is married ye, the other is engaged and has a kid with her fiance. You could say they assumed I was the automatic choice for this job. I have been pretty firm with them recently about my feelings towards this. I suppose they think I have less sht going on in my own life compared to theirs which is not true at all. Me and my sisters in recent years have barely contacted eachother, my mum dying has forced us back into each others lives. It's been non stop arguing for weeks over this. Jesus

Caranica · 13-08-2020 8:26pm

Talk to citizens information and/or Age Action to see what supports there are for your Dad. Does he have a clinical diagnosis?

Once you have the information you need to sit down as a family and work out what's best and fair. This does not include you being his primary carer.

Have you spoken to a counsellor about your mother's death? It's only natural that you're deeply upset but counselling can give you tools to help you get through this difficult time.

Mind yourself x

HildaOgdenx · 13-08-2020 8:26pm

OP, I'm very sorry for your loss. Absolutely agree with you, you should not be giving up your job. That would be very convenient indeed for the other siblings, I'm sure.

As a starting point, I would try contacting your dad's GP surgery / local health clinic to see if they can point you (and your siblings) in the right direction to find carers.

This link might also be useful

https://www.hse.ie/eng/home-support-services/

All the best.

beauf · 13-08-2020 8:27pm

You can apply for carers and you might get a certain amount from the HSE. You can supplement that with private carers. Also consider day centers. You really need to be taking to your dad's GP and get advice. There's also some support groups which advise you.

You're still in shock and mourning. Don't beat yourself up about this. Don't burn bridges with family when everyone is perhaps not acting rationally.

Fakediamond · 13-08-2020 8:30pm

A live-in carer for 5/6 nights and rotate weekend sleepovers to give the carer weekends off. It can be done. Just ensure you vet the person thoroughly and get references that can be verified.

Don’t let the situation continue, they will leave you there if you let them.

Sardonicat · 13-08-2020 8:37pm

beauf wrote: »

You can apply for carers and you might get a certain amount from the HSE. You can supplement that with private carers. Also consider day centers. You really need to be taking to your dad's GP and get advice. There's also some support groups which advise you.

You're still in shock and mourning. Don't beat yourself up about this. Don't burn bridges with family when everyone is perhaps not acting rationally.

He doesn't want to be his Dad's carer. There is no way you can supplement with private carers on Carers Allowance if you intend to eat . Day Centres are currently closed with no opening date in sight. If his sisters try to shaft him and abandon their Dad he would be well within his rights to burn his bridges. I've burned my bridges with my siblings for doing exactly that to me.

OP, if there is money there to pay for private care then go with that option. You may have to get in your car and drive away and let your sisters know your Dad is currently on his own and requires care to force the issue. Tell them the day you are planning to return to work and advise them to sort out between themselves who will look after him. They won't be long coming round to private care then.

13-08-2020 8:50pm

I gave up work to be my dads full time Carer in Feb 2017. I love my dad so much but I hate this part of my life.

I went from working in a busy environment talking about anything and everything to cooking, moving and cleaning my dad or staring at the light switch in my parents kitchen.

I’ve gained weight, I have the worst thoughts sometimes and my biggest fear is this could go on for another 10 years ( I don’t know) and by then I’ll be in my 50s and could get ill myself. And those years after my children had flown the coop had passed me by.

If the money is there, get a full time care team. I wish you well and sorry about the loss of your mother.

Tilikum17 · 13-08-2020 8:58pm

StereoSound wrote: »

My mother died unexpectedly in the past few weeks. She was the carer of my Dad who is not in a right frame of mind for maybe 10 years now. There is a lot of things he cannot do such as being left alone in the house at any time. He has issues making proper decisions and he has sort of a childish understanding of things. Saying that, he can walk down to the shop alone and buy a litre of milk or other simple things like that but most other things is a no.

I have two sisters, and because Mum died someone has to take care of Dad on a full time basis. I have temporarily moved in with Dad into the family home but my sisters seem to think I should be the one to be his carer and quit my job in the process to do it.... This is not something I want to do, I don't want to quit my job and live with my sick father until the day he dies. That is not really fair on me and my sisters insist they cannot do this because of relationships and work. I have my own life made outside this house to. My mother never wanted to put my Dad into a nursing home and I can understand that, they would just drug the man up until the day he passes. She worked in nursing homes and hospitals all her life and she would tell us exactly what goes on with mentally ill patients.

I told my sisters that I am not going to live with Dad in this way because it suits "their lifestyles" .... I have my own life and as much as I care for my Dad I cannot sit here in the house with him day and night doing nothing but cooking and cleaning for him and watching him the whole time. I was with my mother the moment she died in her bedroom as we waited for the ambulance to arrive, she had some sort of heart complications that led to her death or so we believe until we get proper toxicology results ..... My Dad is 80 and who knows when he could go and the notion of him also dying in my presence like Mum did scares the life out of me . I am depressed enough over my Mum right now and I am being nailed against the wall here to become Dads carer. I have my own house to pay for and I will lose that if I quit my job...

I did suggest to my sisters to get a live in carer into the house for Dad. We don't know how this would actually work or how much it would cost. My mother left a very healthy sum of money to my Dad and a live in carer would probably be doable. Plus my mothers life insurance payout would also help cover costs for my Dads care.

Has anyone got any advice on this ?

Do that have a family home, op?

Unfortunately in every family there’s siblings that do nothing for their parents in times like this.

I know from experience.

My advice is to ignore yer man above though to drive away and leave him.

The fair deal scheme. Between the house your mums savings you’d be fine surely?? You’d need to speak to a solicitor

Tilikum17 · 13-08-2020 9:00pm

StereoSound wrote: »

My mother died unexpectedly in the past few weeks. She was the carer of my Dad who is not in a right frame of mind for maybe 10 years now. There is a lot of things he cannot do such as being left alone in the house at any time. He has issues making proper decisions and he has sort of a childish understanding of things. Saying that, he can walk down to the shop alone and buy a litre of milk or other simple things like that but most other things is a no.

I have two sisters, and because Mum died someone has to take care of Dad on a full time basis. I have temporarily moved in with Dad into the family home but my sisters seem to think I should be the one to be his carer and quit my job in the process to do it.... This is not something I want to do, I don't want to quit my job and live with my sick father until the day he dies. That is not really fair on me and my sisters insist they cannot do this because of relationships and work. I have my own life made outside this house to. My mother never wanted to put my Dad into a nursing home and I can understand that, they would just drug the man up until the day he passes. She worked in nursing homes and hospitals all her life and she would tell us exactly what goes on with mentally ill patients.

I told my sisters that I am not going to live with Dad in this way because it suits "their lifestyles" .... I have my own life and as much as I care for my Dad I cannot sit here in the house with him day and night doing nothing but cooking and cleaning for him and watching him the whole time. I was with my mother the moment she died in her bedroom as we waited for the ambulance to arrive, she had some sort of heart complications that led to her death or so we believe until we get proper toxicology results ..... My Dad is 80 and who knows when he could go and the notion of him also dying in my presence like Mum did scares the life out of me . I am depressed enough over my Mum right now and I am being nailed against the wall here to become Dads carer. I have my own house to pay for and I will lose that if I quit my job...

I did suggest to my sisters to get a live in carer into the house for Dad. We don't know how this would actually work or how much it would cost. My mother left a very healthy sum of money to my Dad and a live in carer would probably be doable. Plus my mothers life insurance payout would also help cover costs for my Dads care.

Has anyone got any advice on this ?

Do that have a family home, op?

Unfortunately in every family there’s siblings that do nothing for their parents in times like this.

I know from experience.

My advice is to ignore yer man above though to drive away and leave him.

The fair deal scheme. Between the house your mums savings you’d be fine surely?? You’d need to speak to a solicitor

13-08-2020 9:04pm

I know your mum worked in nursing homes and was dubious about them but I wouldn’t discount them. There are very good ones. Just need to do a lot of research.

Sardonicat · 13-08-2020 9:06pm

Tilikum17 wrote: »

Do that have a family home, op?

Unfortunately in every family there’s siblings that do nothing for their parents in times like this.

I know from experience.

My advice is to ignore yer man above though to drive away and leave him.

The fair deal scheme. Between the house your mums savings you’d be fine surely?? You’d need to speak to a solicitor

I'm not suggesting he drives away and leaves him. I'm suggesting that until the sisters are forced to engage with providing a solution to hands on care they won't try and engage in a solution. Getting in the car while one or both of them are there or letting them know the date op is returning to work so he won't be available to provide care from that date on might be the only way of doing it. I was dragged down the corridor by the hair by my sister when I tried to leave the house for a few hours. Suggesting rotas is fine when dealing with decent, reasonable people bit of think the op is dealing with people who want their Dad cared for at home but don't want to actually do it. The rotas are soon forgotten, believe me.

Sorry about that · 13-08-2020 9:07pm

Hi op. I would get in touch with your GP and Public Health nurse, and get your Dad fully assessed by the multi disciplinary team. This may include occupational therapy, elderly medicine, and/or psychiatry of old age. This will provide you with a picture of your Dad's current needs, and may also shed light on the road ahead, allowing you to make realistic plans. You and your siblings can't do this yourselves.

Your mother was obviously a wonderful carer, and either qualified or experienced enough to deliver this care. While she may have been very against the idea of nursing home care for your Dad; she may not have considered the problems that might arise in her absence. I'm sure she said what she said, seeing herself at the helm, but in time, she may not have been able to continue, as your Dad's needs increased.

This is a very difficult time, and you're probably unable to grieve properly for your mother while it's all being ironed out. It'll work itself out; R.I.P your Mam.

beauf · 13-08-2020 9:09pm

Sardonicat wrote: »

He doesn't want to be his Dad's carer. There is no way you can supplement with private carers on Carers Allowance if you intend to eat . Day Centres are currently closed with no opening date in sight. If his sisters try to shaft him and abandon their Dad he would be well within his rights to burn his bridges. I've burned my bridges with my siblings for doing exactly that to me.

OP, if there is money there to pay for private care then go with that option. You may have to get in your car and drive away and let your sisters know your Dad is currently on his own and requires care to force the issue. Tell them the day you are planning to return to work and advise them to sort out between themselves who will look after him. They won't be long coming round to private care then.

I never suggested him being the stay at carer? No idea where you got that from.

I'm just saying you can mix public carers and private carers. Sometimes from the same company. Which would make the saving last longer. But someone has to manage it. If everyone just walks away and doesn't want to be involved then him remaining at home isn't an option anyway.

You can't bully anyone else into doing something they don't want to do. Personally I wouldn't abandon a parent as you're suggesting. I'd just get care sorted without involving the siblings that don't want to be involved.

Tilikum17 · 13-08-2020 9:10pm

Sardonicat wrote: »

I'm not suggesting he drives away and leaves him. I'm suggesting that until the sisters are forced to engage with providing a solution to hands on care they won't try and engage in a solution. Getting in the car while one or both of them are there or letting them know the date op is returning to work so he won't be available to provide care from that date on might be the only way of doing it. I was dragged down the corridor by the hair by my sister when I tried to leave the house for a few hours. Suggesting rotas is fine when dealing with decent, reasonable people bit of think the op is dealing with people who want their Dad cared for at home but don't want to actually do it. The rotas are soon forgotten, believe me.

Go back and read your post.

beauf · 13-08-2020 9:12pm

You need to get the legal aspect sorted. Control of the funds etc. Also who can make decisions. Medical and wellbeing.

ax530 · 13-08-2020 9:14pm

Very sorry to hear about your mother death.
Due to your dad's condition a ward of court may need to be appointed. Lots of good advice above over where to find information on a love in carer there are many good ones out there sure you will find a fit. Well done standing ground I imagine full time carer super difficult cannot see him being in best care if you are pushed into it. Still a lot of work involved for family even when carer living v in home.
Take care

Sardonicat · 13-08-2020 9:16pm

beauf wrote: »

I never suggested him being the stay at carer? No idea where you got that from.

I'm just saying you can mix public carers and private carers. Sometimes from the same company. Which would make the saving last longer. But someone has to manage it. If everyone just walks away and doesn't want to be involved then him remaining at home isn't an option anyway.

You can't bully anyone else into doing something they don't want to do. Personally I wouldn't abandon a parent as you're suggesting. I'd just get care sorted without involving the siblings that don't want to be involved.

I have never at any point suggested he abandoned his parent . I've been a full time carer for over four years myself and yes I was lied to and bullied and assaulted by my siblings. I would never do what they have done, which is to abondon their Dad. I don't know how you think you can get Carer's Allowance without being a carer? The cost of one night's private care is half the full weekly rate of carers. So, while in theory you are entitled to supplement with private care it's simply too prohibitive.

Sardonicat · 13-08-2020 9:18pm

Tilikum17 wrote: »

Go back and read your post.

If one or both of his sisters are their when he drives away, how is that abandoning him? He's their Dad too.

beauf · 13-08-2020 9:19pm

I think you've got to find a balance that works for you. In terms of doing as much as you feel you can. But not take on too much. Where this is varies for different people.

On one hand I wouldn't be judgemental about where others decide their limits are. But at the same don't take on too much because you're being bullied or guilted into it.

beauf · 13-08-2020 9:23pm

Sardonicat wrote: »

I have never at any point suggested he abandoned his parent . I've been a full time carer for over four years myself and yes I was lied to and bullied and assaulted by my siblings. I would never do what they have done, which is to abondon their Dad. I don't know how you think you can get Carer's Allowance without being a carer? The cost of one night's private care is half the full weekly rate of carers. So, while in theory you are entitled to supplement with private care it's simply too prohibitive.

I never suggested getting carers allowance. I wouldn't quit work myself. Take unpaid leave or annual leave till you get it sorted.

I think you have had a traumatic experience yourself. You have my empathy. But let's not burn the bridges here too soon.

Sonic the Shaghog · 13-08-2020 9:30pm

Why do I get the feeling of the OP suggests putting dad into a nursing home where the family home value and the money his wife left him will be sucked up by the HSE the sisters will be against that too :rolleyes:

Sardonicat · 13-08-2020 9:30pm

He requires his sisters' engagement to get the finances sorted. He won't be able to do that unilaterally. I'd wager they are worried about their inheritance .

OP, your first port of call is with the Public Health Nurse. Don't hold your breath for a home care package as these tend to just stretch to a few hours a week tops spread over a few days but you might be lucky.

13-08-2020 9:32pm

Maximum home care package is 21 hours and you have to fight for that. In my case that’s 2 carers for 30 minutes 3 times a day for 7 days.

Sardonicat · 13-08-2020 9:39pm

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Maximum home care package is 21 hours and you have to fight for that. In my case that’s 2 carers for 30 minutes 3 times a day for 7 days.

That's a good package, Strawberry. I get 30 mins 5 day a week and apparently that's one of the more generous packages locally!. OP, it's also relevant that the kind of home package hours available varies regionally as does what kind of needs qualify for home care. It comes down to resources, obviously.

beauf · 13-08-2020 10:48pm

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Maximum home care package is 21 hours and you have to fight for that. In my case that’s 2 carers for 30 minutes 3 times a day for 7 days.

Same here though we structure it in one block daily at the weekends as we are around most of the time..at the weekends.

beauf · 13-08-2020 10:50pm

Home carers isn't straight forward as they have to click with the person and the family and this might take a while to establish and then they might switch.

beauf · 13-08-2020 10:55pm

Sonic the Shaghog wrote: »

Why do I get the feeling of the OP suggests putting dad into a nursing home where the family home value and the money his wife left him will be sucked up by the HSE the sisters will be against that too :rolleyes:

They will have no choice. Very little room to wiggle with the fair deal.

HildaOgdenx · 14-08-2020 12:35am

As has been suggested upthread, OP, don't rule out nursing home care. That might be the route to go. I don't know, obviously, as an outsider to the situation.

Is there anyone you can discuss options with, be it a relative, or a health professional? Someone who is slightly removed from the situation, if that makes sense.

I reread your OP, and you are dealing with an awful lot, including your mam's sudden death, in your presence. I hope that you have someone to turn to, whether it's wider family, partner or friends. You are grieving, in addition to trying to sort out care for your dad.

It's not all down to you, much as your siblings might try to put it on your shoulders. That's why I think if there is someone you can discuss options with, objectively, it might help. If the siblings are not going to step up, and assume that it's all down to you, they may have just have to abide by decisions you take. Unless they want to step in as carers, which seems highly unlikely.

Once again, I'm sorry for your loss, and take care.

StereoSound · 14-08-2020 9:22am

Sorry about that wrote: »

Hi op. I would get in touch with your GP and Public Health nurse, and get your Dad fully assessed by the multi disciplinary team. This may include occupational therapy, elderly medicine, and/or psychiatry of old age. This will provide you with a picture of your Dad's current needs, and may also shed light on the road ahead, allowing you to make realistic plans. You and your siblings can't do this yourselves.

Your mother was obviously a wonderful carer, and either qualified or experienced enough to deliver this care. While she may have been very against the idea of nursing home care for your Dad; she may not have considered the problems that might arise in her absence. I'm sure she said what she said, seeing herself at the helm, but in time, she may not have been able to continue, as your Dad's needs increased.

This is a very difficult time, and you're probably unable to grieve properly for your mother while it's all being ironed out. It'll work itself out; R.I.P your Mam.

My dad has tendency to kick and scream when he does not get his own way. He kicks the doors and slams things on the table etc. To even get him to brush his teeth or change his clothes is a task and he will do anything to avoid it. Sometimes he runs out the front door and you wouldn't see him for hours because we tried to get him to do something simple as this.

Our family GP has made an appointment for someone to come out and assess Dad considering his carer (my mother) has died. I don't know what they are going to do or suggest but I have heard from someone that either me or one of my sisters are required to now register as his carer or the state could force him into a nursing home as it's in his best interest. I don't know how true that is but I hope that is not the case as I know my sisters will drag me down the guilt road if I don't sign my name to being his carer.

14-08-2020 9:32am

I’ve never heard that you have to register as a Carer as there is no obligation to apply for carers benefit. It’s just their records that will show that X will be providing care for him.

How do you personally feel about nursing home care?

StereoSound · 14-08-2020 9:54am

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I’ve never heard that you have to register as a Carer as there is no obligation to apply for carers benefit. It’s just their records that will show that X will be providing care for him.

How do you personally feel about nursing home care?

I really don't know, I would prefer to keep him out of those places for the moment until a point comes where he is just completely unmanageable or he is a danger to himself or someone else. He can be managed at home but it's a full time job for that person.

Elessar · 14-08-2020 10:42am

StereoSound wrote: »

I really don't know, I would prefer to keep him out of those places for the moment until a point comes where he is just completely unmanageable or he is a danger to himself or someone else. He can be managed at home but it's a full time job for that person.

I'm really sorry StereoSound that you are in this position. I think a lot of us will face this type of thing with our own parents at some point in time.

To be honest it sounds already completely unmanageable. You cannot take care of him to the extent he needs and still live your own life. You have an absolute right to live your life and not have to be forced into being a full time carer which will make you unhappy. Your sisters are being incredibly selfish and it boils my blood to hear what they're doing. It's completely unrealistic for you to shoulder the entire burden of full time care.

Remember you can still love and care for your dad, even if he is in an different setting like a quality nursing home. It sounds like that might be the best option for him and for you at this point.

Take a read of the Fair Deal Nursing home scheme to at least get yourself familiar with it:

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/health_services/health_services_for_older_people/nursing_homes_support_scheme_1.html

You probably already feel guilty about the situation but that is absolutely normal. It's ok to say no to being a full time carer if that's not what you want, and I'm sure deep down your dad would want you to be happy too. I'm sorry to hear about your mum. I wish you the best.

Neyite · 14-08-2020 11:55am

I'm sorry for your loss OP.

A similar situation almost happened to us OP some years ago where it looked like one of the siblings would need to be a full time carer. I was proposed by one sibling - like that, single, mobile and no kids to just quit my job and move 60 miles away from my boyfriend to become a round-the-clock carer.

I said sure. I'll happily do it. Honoured even. That €xxx is my current salary so divided by the rest of you it's only 10k a year, setting aside social security payments/pension etc and I'll need 4 weeks annual leave every year so you'll need to reserve XXX days each to cover me, and that it was a bargain really considering I'd be working both day AND night instead of just the 40hrs I currently do.

Funnily enough it went quiet after that.

Look, nobody wants our loved ones in a home. We always swore that my relative would never go in but there comes a point where they need professional nursing care and we were falling short in what the person needed at that time. So if your dad, at some stage, needs proper nursing care, in a nursing home then that's sadly in his best interests and you shouldn't feel bad about that.

Look into a daily carer that might fit your requirements, with each of you rotating every evening or so as required to ensure he's got what he needs. Also sort out power of attorney (I don't know much so can't advise you there) so that the money remains there for the care that he needs.

StereoSound · 14-08-2020 12:15pm

beauf wrote: »

You need to get the legal aspect sorted. Control of the funds etc. Also who can make decisions. Medical and wellbeing.

Me and my sisters are getting power of attorney, however it's a long process and can take months to come through. My mum left everything to Dad, she left me and my sister's nothing at all. I guess she wanted to make sure dad would be taken care of. At first we were wondering why she left everything to a mentally ill man who can't withdraw or sign for anything because of his state. I guess she knew we would seek power of attorney so we could use the money for Dad's best interest which is fine by me.

StereoSound · 14-08-2020 12:31pm

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I gave up work to be my dads full time Carer in Feb 2017. I love my dad so much but I hate this part of my life.

I went from working in a busy environment talking about anything and everything to cooking, moving and cleaning my dad or staring at the light switch in my parents kitchen.

I’ve gained weight, I have the worst thoughts sometimes and my biggest fear is this could go on for another 10 years ( I don’t know) and by then I’ll be in my 50s and could get ill myself. And those years after my children had flown the coop had passed me by.

If the money is there, get a full time care team. I wish you well and sorry about the loss of your mother.

Why are you tolerating this ? I am assuming in your case there was no money to pay for care ? This is exactly what I don't want to end up happening to me. My sisters would be happy to see my life wasted by staring at the wall as they f off and enjoy their lives. My younger sister had the ignorance to say to me even if Dad lives another 10 years, after Dad passes I'm still sort of young.... I'm 38 and sure as hell am not going to wait until I'm 48 to continue my life.... She can go jump ! I want to get married and have kids, not waiting until I'm pushing 50 to do that.

14-08-2020 1:06pm

StereoSound wrote: »

Why are you tolerating this ? I am assuming in your case there was no money to pay for care ? This is exactly what I don't want to end up happening to me. My sisters would be happy to see my life wasted by staring at the wall as they f off and enjoy their lives. My younger sister had the ignorance to say to me even if Dad lives another 10 years, after Dad passes I'm still sort of young.... I'm 38 and sure as hell am not going to wait until I'm 48 to continue my life.... She can go jump ! I want to get married and have kids, not waiting until I'm pushing 50 to do that.

To cut a long story short my dad’s behaviour from the brain injury he received got him expelled from the home he was in. I can laugh now at this. He went there from rehab so went back to rehab. The rehab also has a nursing home attached but they told us that they wouldn’t take him because of his “issues”. They gave us his date he had to be out of rehab by so we had no other option.

I say we as my sister also looks after him but she is in a good job with great pension benefits. I wasn’t so it made more sense for me to leave work.

It’s not all bad but it can be stressful and boring in equal measures. There is no just deciding to take time off work and go where you want. You need to see if there is respite available first. It’s like having to ask for permission to do as you wish. Even though my dad is a tall heavy man I would struggle with the mental part of it much more than the physical.

StereoSound · 14-08-2020 1:37pm

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

To cut a long story short my dad’s behaviour from the brain injury he received got him expelled from the home he was in. I can laugh now at this. He went there from rehab so went back to rehab. The rehab also has a nursing home attached but they told us that they wouldn’t take him because of his “issues”. They gave us his date he had to be out of rehab by so we had no other option.

I say we as my sister also looks after him but she is in a good job with great pension benefits. I wasn’t so it made more sense for me to leave work.

It’s not all bad but it can be stressful and boring in equal measures. There is no just deciding to take time off work and go where you want. You need to see if there is respite available first. It’s like having to ask for permission to do as you wish. Even though my dad is a tall heavy man I would struggle with the mental part of it much more than the physical.

My Dad has a brain injury to, he had a form of meningitis 10 years back which he never fully recovered from. He is very difficult at times and acts like a child. Going around Lidls doing the shopping with him beside me can be really awkward, or going to the bank or whatever I am doing. I am forced to bring an 80 year old mentally ill man everywhere I go, you know yourself it's not easy and I don't feel it's fair for him either. I feel really sorry for my Dad as he is calling out for my Mam everyday since she died. It's an awful situation for anyone to be in. My mam always said she hoped Dad would pass before her as it would alleviate the stress and complications of his situation, but look this is the reality we are facing now and he has to be prioritized and yet be fair on the rest of us.

Sorry about that · 14-08-2020 2:35pm

StereoSound wrote: »

My dad has tendency to kick and scream when he does not get his own way. He kicks the doors and slams things on the table etc. To even get him to brush his teeth or change his clothes is a task and he will do anything to avoid it. Sometimes he runs out the front door and you wouldn't see him for hours because we tried to get him to do something simple as this.

Our family GP has made an appointment for someone to come out and assess Dad considering his carer (my mother) has died. I don't know what they are going to do or suggest but I have heard from someone that either me or one of my sisters are required to now register as his carer or the state could force him into a nursing home as it's in his best interest. I don't know how true that is but I hope that is not the case as I know my sisters will drag me down the guilt road if I don't sign my name to being his carer.

That is extremely tough going, both from your Dad's difficulties, and from the pressure you're getting from family. It's a nightmare. You can remind them that caring for elderly people is not your area of expertise. I suspect that your sisters are possibly transferring their sense of guilt onto you, as it currently beats the alternative m, which is to admit that you are not equipped (or may not be), to begin the long haul that is caring for an older person with increasing needs.

Sometimes you need to be assertive in getting the right referrals; you can ask for a multi disciplinary team meeting, where your Dad's expected future needs can be discussed. This is time consuming and may not be offered, but if I found myself in your shoes, I'd be pushing for it. Because of his somewhat challenging behaviour, I'd really push for psychiatry of old age to assess him asap.

I'd advise you to agree to nothing right now. Emphasise the importance of a diagnosis and assess of needs; otherwise appropriate care can't be implemented. Feel no guilt, you're doing nothing wrong, and have a right to live your life as you choose. Your mother was wonderful but it was her choice all the way. No guilt, and accept no pressure.

Sardonicat · 14-08-2020 4:29pm

It's so sad, OP. Your poor Dad and you trying to grieve and deal with your Dad's behaviour. I'd go with the advice of the last poster. And while the assessment is taking place make it clear to those assessing his needs that you can't and wont be his carer. The most like outcome here is a Nursing Home. I know you are against it but putting in the research combined with the funds available an excellent home can be found for your Dad.

StereoSound · 14-08-2020 4:32pm

Sorry about that wrote: »

That is extremely tough going, both from your Dad's difficulties, and from the pressure you're getting from family. It's a nightmare. You can remind them that caring for elderly people is not your area of expertise. I suspect that your sisters are possibly transferring their sense of guilt onto you, as it currently beats the alternative m, which is to admit that you are not equipped (or may not be), to begin the long haul that is caring for an older person with increasing needs.

Sometimes you need to be assertive in getting the right referrals; you can ask for a multi disciplinary team meeting, where your Dad's expected future needs can be discussed. This is time consuming and may not be offered, but if I found myself in your shoes, I'd be pushing for it. Because of his somewhat challenging behaviour, I'd really push for psychiatry of old age to assess him asap.

I'd advise you to agree to nothing right now. Emphasise the importance of a diagnosis and assess of needs; otherwise appropriate care can't be implemented. Feel no guilt, you're doing nothing wrong, and have a right to live your life as you choose. Your mother was wonderful but it was her choice all the way. No guilt, and accept no pressure.

There is someone coming to the house soon enough to assess Dad, directed by his GP. My sisters don't want me to mention anything bad about him in terms of his behavior (kicking and screaming) in case they try to force some sort of unwanted care on him. I disagree and think I should be straight forward about his actual behavior. They cannot help unless they know whats going on.

Sardonicat · 14-08-2020 4:58pm

StereoSound wrote: »

There is someone coming to the house soon enough to assess Dad, directed by his GP. My sisters don't want me to mention anything bad about him in terms of his behavior (kicking and screaming) in case they try to force some sort of unwanted care on him. I disagree and think I should be straight forward about his actual behavior. They cannot help unless they know whats going on.

Absolutely be honest. Create an incident diary to record his outbursts. Do not let your sisters stop you from being honest. The asesment wll be pointess if you aren't honest. How dare they prevent 'some kind of care' for your Dad and expect you to provide it all. The absolute selfishness and cheek of them.

Sorry about that · 14-08-2020 6:08pm

StereoSound wrote: »

There is someone coming to the house soon enough to assess Dad, directed by his GP. My sisters don't want me to mention anything bad about him in terms of his behavior (kicking and screaming) in case they try to force some sort of unwanted care on him. I disagree and think I should be straight forward about his actual behavior. They cannot help unless they know whats going on.

Of course you have to be upfront; and you know this. Your sisters also know it.

If it's any comfort, this type of situation arises in families all the time, with siblings treating each other incredibly badly, for whatever reasons. People can be manipulative and nasty, while convincing themselves that they're just trying to do the right thing. I'm not suggesting that this is the case in your family, but it happens. From what you've said, your Dad already needs a certain amount of care and supervision. No matter how much you love him, and want to deliver on your mother's wishes, becoming a full time carer is an enormous, life-changing undertaking, and even if you had 24/7 help from paid carers, you're still the fall guy.

I'm not trying to steer you in any direction, but if you have major concerns about becoming your Dad's carer, you're right, it's a huge deal.

Stay calm, and stand your ground. You do not have to make any decisions today or tomorrow. It's ok to muddle along for a little while, till you know more.

sunshinew · 14-08-2020 6:48pm

StereoSound wrote: »

Why are you tolerating this ? I am assuming in your case there was no money to pay for care ? This is exactly what I don't want to end up happening to me. My sisters would be happy to see my life wasted by staring at the wall as they f off and enjoy their lives. My younger sister had the ignorance to say to me even if Dad lives another 10 years, after Dad passes I'm still sort of young.... I'm 38 and sure as hell am not going to wait until I'm 48 to continue my life.... She can go jump ! I want to get married and have kids, not waiting until I'm pushing 50 to do that.

This is so unfair on you. If anything your siblings have people to support their lives and current grief and are taking the opportunity away from you to meet somebody. Similar situation happened in my family with my grandmother when I was a child. She couldn't live by herself and she moved in with my single childless 40 year old aunt. The other siblings had "families to look after". My grandmother died 10 years later. I'm 39 and single myself now and was having a chat with my mother recently. I asked had she ever really sat down and thanked her sister. She paused her entire life for 10 years to look after her mother... My mum had her own issues at the time with two kids and an alcoholic husband, but she got upset when I told her I thought her sister made an incredible sacrifice for the whole family and it effected the entire course of her life. My aunt became quite bitter over time and remained single and is now in her 70s living alone through covid.
Your sisters will gaslight you and make you feel guilty... If it's that important to them that he's looked after in his own home, and if it's such a reasonable request they are asking of you, then why aren't they offering to do it themselves. Being married isn't an excuse!

Sonic the Shaghog · 15-08-2020 12:21am

Its most likely it's the public health nurse that will be sent out to access. Under no circumstance play down his behaviour, it will totally mess up her assessment.

You'll have carers going in not knowing half his behaviour and possibly refusing to engage with your family and father if they see he can be extremely agitated and kick out and it wasn't mentioned. I worked in it for a while. Some carers, particularly female don't want to be with a male client that can lash out as unfortunately the stress as well physical injury that may occur is just too much so it would be very unfair to do that to carers going in blind.

It could end up with you losing care too. Not so much HSE cutting hours but if one company who only has say 1 carer in the area and the carer finds out a lot of issues or behaviour were never told or as I said they are wary of a client who may lash out they'll tell the company they are not going back there and you could end up months waiting for another company to apply to take over and you're on your own for that time.

Then there's also the safety issue. If a carer didn't know he can take off out the front door they could be making the bed or making him a bit 9f lunch and he's gone and what's more depending if the PHN and care company isn't aware of the total extent of his behaviour they may just tell her he's obviously gone out and left you just head away. This has happened where sometimes a client isn't at home when you'd arrive or a rare occasion where some difficult clients just left the house to head off to the pub etc and the carer left there having to ring in to be told head away if that's their carry on. However in your dad's case it would be a case of he can't be left alone so proper channels to report him missing would need to be followed from contacting the family and Gardai

So for the carers and your own sake tell them everything.

qwerty13 · 15-08-2020 2:33am

I’ve seen this happen to a good friend of mine, and she’s just broken now.

For a start, the idea that you can just pick up the carer role is so unfair. My friend had that because her siblings thought that was ok because she was female and single, and it’s affected her hugely. It has basically taken up her whole life for her 30s and most of her 40s. And then there was a row about inheritance, as her mother left her the house.

I’m afraid to say that your father is already at the unmanageable point. He needs professional care. Your mother chose to provide full-time care for him, undoubtedly at a huge cost to herself. You don’t have to do down the same route, despite your mother’s preference re your Father’s day to day living.

My friend never had her father assessed, and that meant severe difficulties in accessing any supports. So do not go down the road of just sucking it up, as your siblings seem to want you to do.

The other aspect is money. If there’s a good amount of money from your mother’s estate, then that should be used for your Dad. I’d be highly suspicious of any sibling who thinks otherwise - especially when they appear to think that you should basically replace your Mum.

You have a huge amount going on OP: the loss of your mother, the trying to cope with your father, and being emotionally blackmailed by your siblings. I think you need to talk to someone very soon. My friend is only doing that after 17 years of care, and she’s very hurt, angry, and broken. Don’t do that to yourself OP. You need to establish boundaries with your siblings - including acknowledging that your Dad needs professional care.

I wish you the very best, I know it’s tough going.

Tork · 15-08-2020 11:34am

I’m afraid to say that your father is already at the unmanageable point. He needs professional care. Your mother chose to provide full-time care for him, undoubtedly at a huge cost to herself. You don’t have to do down the same route, despite your mother’s preference re your Father’s day to day living.

I know a little about this because someone in my family reached that particular crossroads. Saying you'll keep somebody at home until the day they leave in a wooden box is a noble intention but it doesn't always work out that way. There often comes a time when a big decision has to be made. Despite what your mother was saying all along, there is no guarantee she wouldn't have agreed to have him put into a home at some point. The burden of caring for somebody creeps up on their carer and it's only when they're gone that they realise what they'd been through. It's hard for someone who's in the middle of caring to notice how bad things have got. Your mother's view of nursing homes might be a bit out of date if you don't mind me saying. Things will have changed since your mother was working and there is more transparency now. There are lots of very good nursing homes in Ireland, where they won't just drug your father up to the nines against everyone's wishes and leave him there. There's more consulation with the family now and the homes are subject to HIQA inspections. We still hear about institutions where there are problems but they're a rarity rather than the norm. So in other words, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the nursing home option. Maybe you know someone who has a family member in a home and you could talk to them? Also, many people have found that the local Public Health Nurse was their greatest ally when it came to caring and accessing help. Don't be afraid to talk to him/her.

Definitely don't play down anything when he's assessed and see what the experts say. Nothing they say is binding anyway so you are still free to make up your own mind.

Mum died, Dad non composmentis

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