BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

Stephen15 · 10-10-2018 5:16pm

bk wrote: »

Though since then, London Bus have rolled out some 3,000 Hybrid buses, so they are definitely pretty reliable now.

Hybrid buses should really be trailed first. When DB was first buying low floor double deckers they trailed a few from a few different manufacturers to see which one worked best.

As for full EV buses, I believe the technology is definitely there now for single deckers, double deckers are a much more difficult.

The issue is where do you put the batteries. It is relatively straight forward on a single decker, you just put it on the roof. That obviously isn't possible for a double decker, it would make them too tall and top heavy. They have tried putting batteries in the back downstairs, but then you lose seating space and you make them back heavy, so far for ideal.

For Double Deckers, I suspect they will need to design an entire new bus chassis from the ground up, specifically designed to be an EV, rather then the current approach of just throwing batteries in a chassis designed for Diesel.

I have heard that an EV single decker weighs nearly as much as a double decker which isin't exactly ideal and batteries on the roof may effect the bus height for going under low bridges which is often the reason why a route uses single deckers rather than double decker buses.

I think for EV to be viable in the long they need to weigh the same with the same engine space taken up by the batteries as on a diesel bus. No comprises on weight, height or passenger space.

Qrt · 10-10-2018 6:55pm

Can we not just bring back trolleybuses? I'd love them

Hotblack Desiato · 10-10-2018 8:52pm

Qrt wrote: »

Can we not just bring back trolleybuses? I'd love them

Yes, they cunningly combine (some of) the infrastructure costs and all of the lack of operational flexibility of trams, along with the low capacity and higher staff costs of buses

MJohnston · 10-10-2018 8:56pm

San Francisco has them, and they're absolutely horrible.

BonnieSituation · 10-10-2018 9:30pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Yes, they cunningly combine (some of) the infrastructure costs and all of the lack of operational flexibility of trams, along with the low capacity and higher staff costs of buses

Experienced my first trolley bus at the weekend in Bratislava. I'm still none the wiser of the point of them.

One thing I did like about them was the 3 or 4 doors all opening at the same time and NO driver interaction. Validators at every door AND request stops which was decent. Nice screens spaced out throughout all buses to show next stop etc.

Sam Russell · 10-10-2018 9:36pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Yes, they cunningly combine (some of) the infrastructure costs and all of the lack of operational flexibility of trams, along with the low capacity and higher staff costs of buses

The Dublin trams of 100 years ago bear no relationship to th Luas trams. Why would modern trolleybuses bear any resemblance to trolleybuses of 50 years ago?

They could be rubber wheeled Luas trams with overhead electric supply.

L1011 · 10-10-2018 9:51pm

They're still being retired across the world as ineffective; the small new builds and extensions do not outweigh the retirements. By comparison there is no wide-scale tram retirements; I think Amsterdam may have dropped one line a few years ago though. Plenty of new lines, new systems and extensions going on - even Blackpool got an extension!

If you're going to put in wiring (twin wiring as no ability to return via rails, so more expensive), high capacity stop infrastructure, priority measures etc - just put in rails too.

circular flexing · 10-10-2018 11:41pm

Turns out Shane Ross doesn't like the plan after all

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ross-complains-to-nta-over-reform-plans-to-dublin-s-bus-services-1.3659073

Seth Brundle · 11-10-2018 7:09am

circular flexing wrote: »

Turns out Shane Ross doesn't like the plan after all

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ross-complains-to-nta-over-reform-plans-to-dublin-s-bus-services-1.3659073

The other thing I noticed from that article was that seemingly the Minister for Transport thinks the majority if roads around the country are not safe for pedestrians to use...

The Backglen Road from Lamb Doyle’s pub is not pedestrianised and “so is not safe for pedestrians to use”, the Minister for Transport said. “Residents fear they will have to resort to using their cars.”

LeinsterDub · 11-10-2018 7:51am

circular flexing wrote: »

Turns out Shane Ross doesn't like the plan after all

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ross-complains-to-nta-over-reform-plans-to-dublin-s-bus-services-1.3659073

An other word for complained is consulted. As in consulted during a consultation period.

Hurrache · 11-10-2018 8:33am

Our minister for transport ladies and gentlemen. What a clown.

warning that it threatens to cut off his constituents from schools, hospitals and the city centre.

He said the BusConnects proposal was distressing people who would lose a direct commute, causing fears among parents about their children going to school and many of them were now planning to drive their children.

punisher5112 · 11-10-2018 8:49am

Hurrache wrote: »

Our minister for transport ladies and gentlemen. What a clown.

It's only he that wants his 44 kept so he can pretend on Twitter how amazing it is to travel to work....

In the real world 1030 isn't a commuter time for going to work.

He is a grade A posh plonker born with not only a silver spoon but gold bed.

Hurrache · 11-10-2018 9:18am

Look at me, I'm a commoner now
https://twitter.com/Shane_RossTD/status/816224443731243008

Wheety · 11-10-2018 9:47am

Hurrache wrote: »

Look at me, I'm a commoner now
https://twitter.com/Shane_RossTD/status/816224443731243008

Nice of them to put on an extra bus just for him. Probably had a Garda escort too.

He should try getting a bus from Lucan and see if he's still so chirpy.

cgcsb · 11-10-2018 9:58am

dumb dumb dumb dumb

Hotblack Desiato · 11-10-2018 11:23am

Sam Russell wrote: »

They could be rubber wheeled Luas trams with overhead electric supply.

They could be, but then the problems of sharing the road space with other traffic get exponentially worse, so what's the gain over putting in an actual Luas track?

Qrt · 11-10-2018 11:53am

I regret mentioning trolleybuses now.

cgcsb · 11-10-2018 12:12pm

Qrt wrote: »

I regret mentioning trolleybuses now.

Trolley Buses for all!!!! :P:P:P

Sam Russell · 11-10-2018 1:05pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

They could be, but then the problems of sharing the road space with other traffic get exponentially worse, so what's the gain over putting in an actual Luas track?

Tarmac is cheaper than rail, plus is much more flexible. Plus if they had battery power available, they could be just required to be o/h power for some of their route, say the core element.

However, we are stuck with buses.

MJohnston · 11-10-2018 2:14pm

I think one thing highlighted by Ross' observations is, with regard to somewhere like Glencullen, they should have had a better plan for how to replace small local routes like that, because it is not a great look that certain villages just had their low-frequency routes removed completely. I can see the responsibility for that kind of thing shifting away from Dublin Bus, but it still should have been part of the plan, as it's an easy stick to beat it with.

Cookie_Monster · 11-10-2018 8:37pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

The Dublin trams of 100 years ago bear no relationship to the Luas trams. Why would modern trolleybuses bear any resemblance to trolleybuses of 50 years ago?

They could be rubber wheeled Luas trams with overhead electric supply.

He's describing modern trolleybuses... Wellington has them, emissions aside they've no real benefit over standard, the infrastructure is ugly and potentially dangerous, costly and limited in flexibility. They jump the wires quite frequently also.

Stephen15 · 11-10-2018 9:37pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

He's describing modern trolleybuses... Wellington has them, emissions aside they've no real benefit over standard, the infrastructure is ugly and potentially dangerous, costly and limited in flexibility. They jump the wires quite frequently also.

They seem to be quite popular in ex Commie Block countries aswell. Also a number of cities in Italy have them aswell. The wires look ok in city like Bologna for example where buildings are of a consistent height meaning they are usually tied to building and not to pylons. Belfast aswell as a number of cities in the UK used to have them up until the 60s as they got rid of the rails from the tram system but kept up the overhead centenary.

ArmaniJeanss · 12-10-2018 3:18pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Yes, they cunningly combine (some of) the infrastructure costs and all of the lack of operational flexibility of trams, along with the low capacity and higher staff costs of buses

Hah, nicely phrased.

Though in fairness 'operational inflexibility' is actually one of the best things about rail/trams. The route is the route and costs loads to change, so once its done there's no lobbying to veer off to the left to serve the new estate, then to the right to serve the supermarket and the bingo hall, like happens with bus routes all too often.

circular flexing · 13-10-2018 7:10am

Another piece by Irish Times, this time on Wellington where it seems like Jarrett Walker consulted for a while but then left the project

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/how-wellington-s-busconnects-scheme-created-travel-chaos-1.3661640

Only 2 sentences at the end about the success of another city in NZ (Auckland).

Walked also wrote a rebuttal to a piece in the NZ based newspaper

https://humantransit.org/2018/10/wellington-notes-on-an-nz-newsroom-article.html

AlekSmart · 13-10-2018 1:25pm

circular flexing wrote: »

Another piece by Irish Times, this time on Wellington where it seems like Jarrett Walker consulted for a while but then left the project

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/how-wellington-s-busconnects-scheme-created-travel-chaos-1.3661640

Only 2 sentences at the end about the success of another city in NZ (Auckland).

Walked also wrote a rebuttal to a piece in the NZ based newspaper

https://humantransit.org/2018/10/wellington-notes-on-an-nz-newsroom-article.html

My thinking is that Jarrett Walker will eventually walk away (He won't be able to get a Bus) from the current Dublin Busconnects programme.
He was retained to carry out a study and produce a comprehensive report outling a solution to the brief.

He has performed this,in the best fashion I have ever seen in terms of Irish Transport Consultancy Studies,whilst then having to engage in a campaign of Guerilla warfare with a highly motivated and well resourced group of Naysayers,who right from the bell,went screaming for the jugular with little regard for the facts of the plan.

Now,in the final indignity for this Plan,it is to be subject to a 20,000 strong committe of equally "expert" reviewers,before the final version appears.

What,I would ask,are the chances of the final Dublin Busconnects Plan having much in common with Walker's original draft ?

100%.....75%......50%....25%.....thats where we now stand.

Jarrett Walker & Associates (all 10 of them) have a lot of Proffessional Skin in this game,and I suggest he personally,will not want to see his firm's reputation perish upon the rocks of,yet another, Irish Solution to an Irish Problem. :eek:

Yet,with typical obstinacy,Dublin's administrative clique appear intent upon following the very clear path to disaster now all to apparent in Wellington.
The NTA paid the man for an expert report,it's about time they had to sense to listen to it ?

Zebra3 · 13-10-2018 3:16pm

You’re giving too much credit to the morons trying to destroy BC.

They’re not that smart.

.G. · 13-10-2018 3:35pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

My thinking is that Jarrett Walker will eventually walk away (He won't be able to get a Bus) from the current Dublin Busconnects programme.
He was retained to carry out a study and produce a comprehensive report outling a solution to the brief.

He has performed this,in the best fashion I have ever seen in terms of Irish Transport Consultancy Studies,whilst then having to engage in a campaign of Guerilla warfare with a highly motivated and well resourced group of Naysayers,who right from the bell,went screaming for the jugular with little regard for the facts of the plan.

Now,in the final indignity for this Plan,it is to be subject to a 20,000 strong committe of equally "expert" reviewers,before the final version appears.

What,I would ask,are the chances of the final Dublin Busconnects Plan having much in common with Walker's original draft ?

100%.....75%......50%....25%.....thats where we now stand.

Jarrett Walker & Associates (all 10 of them) have a lot of Proffessional Skin in this game,and I suggest he personally,will not want to see his firm's reputation perish upon the rocks of,yet another, Irish Solution to an Irish Problem. :eek:

Yet,with typical obstinacy,Dublin's administrative clique appear intent upon following the very clear path to disaster now all to apparent in Wellington.
The NTA paid the man for an expert report,it's about time they had to sense to listen to it ?

This is the big thing I took from it. The paper probably wanted to show him in bad light but what it actually does is show the people charged with implementing it in bad light. Dermot O' Leary has used this example against him too on twitter without, it seems, realising it was the objectors and those in charge of implementing it i.e. the likes of him and our city politicians who scream loudest, who are responsible for the sh!t show in wellington, not the designer.

Shedite27 · 13-10-2018 8:03pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

My thinking is that Jarrett Walker will eventually walk away (He won't be able to get a Bus) from the current Dublin Busconnects programme.
He was retained to carry out a study and produce a comprehensive report outling a solution to the brief.

He has performed this,in the best fashion I have ever seen in terms of Irish Transport Consultancy Studies,whilst then having to engage in a campaign of Guerilla warfare with a highly motivated and well resourced group of Naysayers,who right from the bell,went screaming for the jugular with little regard for the facts of the plan.

Now,in the final indignity for this Plan,it is to be subject to a 20,000 strong committe of equally "expert" reviewers,before the final version appears.

What,I would ask,are the chances of the final Dublin Busconnects Plan having much in common with Walker's original draft ?

100%.....75%......50%....25%.....thats where we now stand.

Jarrett Walker & Associates (all 10 of them) have a lot of Proffessional Skin in this game,and I suggest he personally,will not want to see his firm's reputation perish upon the rocks of,yet another, Irish Solution to an Irish Problem. :eek:

Yet,with typical obstinacy,Dublin's administrative clique appear intent upon following the very clear path to disaster now all to apparent in Wellington.
The NTA paid the man for an expert report,it's about time they had to sense to listen to it ?

This type of thing happens at every one of these projects everywhere in the world. Stakeholder management is one of the main skills in that line of work. He knows most of the policiticians are doing it for free publicity and will be politely ignored.

dfx- · 13-10-2018 10:03pm

Thankfully the NTA being a notoriously independent body will ignore DoT policy changes or comments from a Minister...

markpb · 14-10-2018 8:32am

dfx- wrote: »

Thankfully the NTA being a notoriously independent body will ignore DoT policy changes or comments from a Minister...

Did someone from the NTA steal your Christmast present or something? Your incessant ranting about them is getting boring. Some of your posts have some actual criticism which is fair enough but the rest are just muck flinging. I'll buy you a new Christmas present if you want, I'm good for it!

XPS_Zero · 14-10-2018 12:40pm

I don't think journos are aware of the irony of what they are printing.

"Transport experts say BusConnects will improve Dublins Bus network, others disagree" ....so NOT experts disagree then? NOT experts disagree?

But ignoring them and saying "were tired of experts" worked out great for the Brexit plan in the UK didn't it? I mean things are going so well they've appointed(this is real, this is NOT the onion) a Minister for Supplies like during wartime to stockpile goods due to the bow wave of disruption to the JIT system.

Reminds me of that really creepy headline after the Rugby trial "100s march to give their own verdict", yeh what does the jury who did it as their full time job for months know eh? What do people who know stuff know? pffff!

I'd be half minded to pull the entire plan and say "ok, you still have your long, meandering, wait for half hour 'direct' bus to the city centre..congrats, you'll even have 4 of them arriving at the same time to choose from!"

XPS_Zero · 14-10-2018 12:44pm

dfx- wrote: »

Thankfully the NTA being a notoriously independent body will ignore DoT policy changes or comments from a Minister...

It may turn out to be a good thing that, ATM , we have a minister who is more worried about being a super TD and getting what the americans call "pork" for his own area than his portfolio, he is probably only barely aware of what BusConnects is. So maybe that means he won't make a balls of it.

XPS_Zero · 14-10-2018 12:51pm

sharper wrote: »

https://twitter.com/taniadoylecllr/status/1047200848328187905

The number of elected officials that apparently can't even do a google search to answer their own concerns is incredible. If Tania Doyle spent even a few minutes researching it she'd learn JWA won an open tender for the redesign. Why does she even think they were the only ones approached?

They don't care about the truth (most of them) they care about getting their name in the paper to create a firestorm and look like a champion of the people. Some of them are stupid enough to buy their own nonsense but most have not even bothered to actually check if this might work, they are USING it to get their mugs on laptop and tv screens and onto the radios.

They think it will help them get elected but in reality by the time the election comes most people will have forgotten about this. One of the most amazing things in politics is how aspiring and existing politicos chase random cars down the road thinking the people care about them but they forget there is a difference in what people will change their vote on, and what they'll moan about on twitter or facebook on then forget about when the next set of shiny keys is jiggled in front of them.

dfx- · 14-10-2018 2:57pm

markpb wrote: »

Did someone from the NTA steal your Christmast present or something? Your incessant ranting about them is getting boring. Some of your posts have some actual criticism which is fair enough but the rest are just muck flinging. I'll buy you a new Christmas present if you want, I'm good for it!

I think it was yourself (I apologise if it was not) that pointed out in this forum - perhaps this thread - that we (critics presumably) should all realise that the DoT are not in charge anymore and things have changed, we have all moved on from the old days and the old ways.

The reality is the NTA, for all their positives and negatives, are still at the whim of ministers changing their mind like perhaps Mr. Ross could. They are a construct of the DoT and nothing has changed. They would abandon BusConnects in a shot because the DoT has its thumb on the scales of their decisions.

But if you're giving out Christmas Presents, I'll not get in the way.:)

XPS_Zero · 14-10-2018 3:55pm

NTA and HSE are just to take micro decisions and day to day decisions out of the departments, they are not, like central banks and interest rates designed to take powers totally off the govt, the govt will always have the power to intervene with big strategic issues (they have the power to override small ones too they just don't usually)

Ross just does not care enough though, thankfully, once his own bus routes in his area are ok he'll not care.

OscarMIlde · 14-10-2018 3:58pm

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I don't think journos are aware of the irony of what they are printing.

"Transport experts say BusConnects will improve Dublins Bus network, others disagree" ....so NOT experts disagree then? NOT experts disagree?

But ignoring them and saying "were tired of experts" worked out great for the Brexit plan in the UK didn't it? I mean things are going so well they've appointed(this is real, this is NOT the onion) a Minister for Supplies like during wartime to stockpile goods due to the bow wave of disruption to the JIT system.

Reminds me of that really creepy headline after the Rugby trial "100s march to give their own verdict", yeh what does the jury who did it as their full time job for months know eh? What do people who know stuff know? pffff!

I'd be half minded to pull the entire plan and say "ok, you still have your long, meandering, wait for half hour 'direct' bus to the city centre..congrats, you'll even have 4 of them arriving at the same time to choose from!"

There are many legitimate and valid criticisms about bus connects which were raised by commuters. I'm sick of the smug attitude by fans of the proposal that critics of it are either to ignorant or unadaptable to accept change. From the routes I'm intimately familiar with the changes will be a vast disimprovement at peak times, and minimal improvement at other times.

Zebra3 · 14-10-2018 6:03pm

Can you list them?

OscarMIlde · 14-10-2018 7:20pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Can you list them?

I've mentioned the negative effect on daily commuters in the north Kildare area multiple times on this thread.

OscarMIlde · 14-10-2018 7:32pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

You’re giving too much credit to the morons trying to destroy BC.

They’re not that smart.

Referring to people who have legitimate complaints about some of the changes being proposed, who did the intelligent thing and highlighted shortcomings to their public representatives, and submitted critiques to the public consultation, as 'morons' and 'not that smart' is such an infuriating argument. How else are people going to have their concerns addressed? Would you prefer if they said nothing and waited for their daily commute to become even more hellish before waiting to complain? Why presume that people don't understand the nature of routes they've used for years.

My own commute from Maynooth to UCD will become even longer than the current 4 hours per day, as the so called new express route designed to replace the 66x is drastically less frequent, and will take an even longer route than it does now. That is unacceptable for an already under served area, especially in light of the massive expansion in housing stock which has been approved for the area.

If you want bus connects to succeed, you need to face the reality that aspects of it have not been well thought out, and need to be reassessed before rollout.

Spanish Eyes · 14-10-2018 7:35pm

OscarMIlde wrote: »

My own commute from Maynooth to UCD will become even longer than the current 4 hours per day, as the so called new express route designed to replace the 66x is drastically less frequent, and will take an even longer route than it does now. That is unacceptable for an already under served area, especially in light of the massive expansion in housing stock which has been approved for the area.

If you want bus connects to succeed, you need to face the reality that aspects of it have not been well thought out, and need to be reassessed before rollout.

I am curious, and I am sure it has to do with your course/studies, but was Maynooth University not an option for you?

But maybe you work in UCD. Not enough information as to why someone would live in Maynooth University town and commute to UCD every day!

OscarMIlde · 14-10-2018 7:41pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I am curious, and I am sure it has to do with your course/studies, but was Maynooth University not an option for you?

But maybe you work in UCD. Not enough information as to why someone would live in Maynooth University town and commute to UCD every day!

I work in UCD. It's not the point anyway. There are many people on my route who commute from Maynooth, Leixlip, Celbridge to the city centre and beyond (Baggot st area for example). A lot of people are going to be negatively affected by the reduction in services and longer route, not to mention the ludicrously early leave time for afternoon express services.

Spanish Eyes · 14-10-2018 7:50pm

OscarMIlde wrote: »

I work in UCD. It's not the point anyway. There are many people on my route who commute from Maynooth, Leixlip, Celbridge to the city centre and beyond (Baggot st area for example). A lot of people are going to be negatively affected by the reduction in services and longer route, not to mention the ludicrously early leave time for afternoon express services.

Fair enough thanks.

OscarMIlde · 14-10-2018 7:53pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Fair enough thanks.

Sorry if I sounded cranky. I had relatives who don't understand Dublin rent prices saying I should move to Donnybrook last night, and it was rather infuriating!

Spanish Eyes · 14-10-2018 8:32pm

OscarMIlde wrote: »

Sorry if I sounded cranky. I had relatives who don't understand Dublin rent prices saying I should move to Donnybrook last night, and it was rather infuriating!

No worries, I was just curious about your commute!

Well we are on the Commuting and Transport board.....:eek:

Hope it all works out.

Hotblack Desiato · 14-10-2018 8:45pm

OscarMIlde wrote: »

My own commute from Maynooth to UCD will become even longer than the current 4 hours per day

A motorcycle will cut that down by about two-thirds.

OscarMIlde · 14-10-2018 9:08pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

A motorcycle will cut that down by about two-thirds.

You think the solution to bus connects is that all current users of the North Kildare infrastructure should use a motorcycle? Yeah, that will fulfill one of the stated aims of cutting emissions.

circular flexing · 14-10-2018 9:52pm

OscarMIlde wrote: »

My own commute from Maynooth to UCD will become even longer than the current 4 hours per day, as the so called new express route designed to replace the 66x is drastically less frequent, and will take an even longer route than it does now. That is unacceptable for an already under served area, especially in light of the massive expansion in housing stock which has been approved for the area.

Is W8 to Tallaght and then S6 or S7 from Tallaght to UCD an option?

OscarMIlde · 14-10-2018 10:13pm

circular flexing wrote: »

Is W8 to Tallaght and then S6 or S7 from Tallaght to UCD an option?

I don't see how that would be quicker or more convenient. I will still be able to get to UCD with the new plan, but the point is it will be a longer commute (which is already extremely long) and I'll be less likely to be able to catch a bus, as they are less frequent and leave very early in the evening. What I am pointing out is that the proposed improvement with bus connects is a vast dis improvement for an awful lot of people on my route (including potential new commuters who bus connects are supposed to entice). It is obviously so;, a quick survey of drivers or commuters along that route would have provided better and simpler ways of improving journey times and connectedness of towns than bus connects has for north Kildare.

It makes me wonder how much on the ground research went into designing the system. It certainly seems that many assumptions within the report are flawed, e.g. that the buses can effortlessly feed into rail networks, without accounting for the fact that the rail network is overloaded and oversubscribed as is. Where are these new rail passengers going to go?

Any newly proposed system that is relying on best case scenarios for infrastructure upgrades/no or few delays in connecting buses/spare capacity of parallel public transport options is on a hiding to nothing in my opinion. These can be hoped for goals but there seems little contingency in the plans for the absolute chaos which will occur if these requirements are not meant.

I also think that the fundamental problem which bus connects aimed to address, e.g. connecting local towns and recruiting non bus users is but one issue it should have prioritised. Easing the discomfort, journey times and problem of non running buses which plague the thousands of people who already use Dublin bus should have been an equal if not even greater priority.

Stephen15 · 14-10-2018 10:51pm

OscarMIlde wrote: »

I don't see how that would be quicker or more convenient. I will still be able to get to UCD with the new plan, but the point is it will be a longer commute (which is already extremely long) and I'll be less likely to be able to catch a bus, as they are less frequent and leave very early in the evening. What I am pointing out is that the proposed improvement with bus connects is a vast dis improvement for an awful lot of people on my route (including potential new commuters who bus connects are supposed to entice). It is obviously so;, a quick survey of drivers or commuters along that route would have provided better and simpler ways of improving journey times and connectedness of towns than bus connects has for north Kildare.

It makes me wonder how much on the ground research went into designing the system. It certainly seems that many assumptions within the report are flawed, e.g. that the buses can effortlessly feed into rail networks, without accounting for the fact that the rail network is overloaded and oversubscribed as is. Where are these new rail passengers going to go?

Any newly proposed system that is relying on best case scenarios for infrastructure upgrades/no or few delays in connecting buses/spare capacity of parallel public transport options is on a hiding to nothing in my opinion. These can be hoped for goals but there seems little contingency in the plans for the absolute chaos which will occur if these requirements are not meant.

I also think that the fundamental problem which bus connects aimed to address, e.g. connecting local towns and recruiting non bus users is but one issue it should have prioritised. Easing the discomfort, journey times and problem of non running buses which plague the thousands of people who already use Dublin bus should have been an equal if not even greater priority.

Talk about jumping to conclusions you do realise the plans drawn up were a draft and not final. They can and will be changed. I have read the plans and I support the concept Dublin does need a new bus system the current one is flawed and outdated. Some of the changes in Bus Connects aren't great haven't taken local issues into account it's not perfect JW even admitted this and he says they are looking into this.

In the long run what needs to be done in North Kildare is the DART needs to extended out to Maynooth that would open Maynooth and Leixlip commuters up to a lot of new opportunities including a better service to UCD as passenger like yourself could connect with buses to UCD in Blackrock. Also Cambridge needs a better bus service and has been overlooked by this.

I hope you've made you're submission.

OscarMIlde · 14-10-2018 11:09pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Talk about jumping to conclusions you do realise the plans drawn up were a draft and not final. They can and will be changed. I have read the plans and I support the concept Dublin does need a new bus system the current one is flawed and outdated. Some of the changes in Bus Connects aren't great haven't taken local issues into account it's not perfect JW even admitted this and he says they are looking into this.

In the long run what needs to be done in North Kildare is the DART needs to extended out to Maynooth that would open Maynooth and Leixlip commuters up to a lot of new opportunities including a better service to UCD as passenger like yourself could connect with buses to UCD in Blackrock. Also Cambridge needs a better bus service and has been overlooked by this.

I hope you've made you're submission.

I did make a submission and I haven't jumped to conclusions. I understand that they can be changed and I hope they are. But there is a meme among supporters of the plan that anyway with (legitimate!) reservations about it is an idiot. In the last few pages people who have voiced concerns have been called morons, not that smart, compared to Brexiteers etc. Those are ridiculously hyperbolic positions and are guaranteed to create friction and hostility. I am not an idiot, and my reservations are legitimate. The plans for north Kildare where clearly generated by someone looking at a map and not someone familiar with the heavy traffic in Maynooth, Leixlip, Celbridge and Lucan villages. It makes me suspect that other far flung locations have likely been given short shrift also.

Another concern of mine is that one supposed aspect of bus connects is that the new route efficiencies will mean improvements will occur with little extra costs (wrt bus and driver numbers). Dublin bus needs significant investment in both to mitigate for driver absences and operational failures, as well as to improve frequency. I understand that this is occuring to some extent due to Go Ahead, but more needs to be done. Drivers and buses won't materialise out of thin air and I suspect that some Peter's will lose out in the rush to improve Paul.

Also, while dart to Maynooth would be fantastic in theory, I'm not sure how it can occur. Connolly is completely full at peak commuter times, trains simply cannot enter. 10 minute dart has made commutes a misery for friends of mine working on the north side. Sometimes simpler fixes can achieve more than radical overhauls. Increasing carriage lengths, increasing early morning (pre seven am) evening (past 7pm) frequency only slightly on the Maynooth line would make the train a more viable option for many and would cause minimal disruption to other services which share stations.

Similarly with north Kildare bus services, a simple increase in expresso services, making them all depart from the city centre and direct to the final town, e.g. stop making Maynooth expressos go through Leixlip and Celbridge woudl increase commute time remarkably. Similarly the 66/66a/66b/67 services should be altered to take the current expresso route. Journey times would increase, meaning buses could take more passes in and out of time and increase frequnecy without increasing driver numbers or buses. There is no need to invent ridiculous new routes in many cases.

BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

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